Another Shooting

Legacy

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I have zero desire to watch anti-gun politicians bill the taxpayers to run more and more and more studies that try and fuel their agenda.

These studies are politically motivated and a huge waste of money. Not all bans are bad.

The outcomes will be disagreed upon, regardless of whose side they support.

Already have some scientific studies but doubt the expenditure on the federal level is significant. It is interesting that two people on the opposite sides call for research including the one who sponsored the Amendment that stopped the research. But health care professionals join with the majority of gun owners, law enforcement personnel, prosecuting attorneys.

Preventing Gun Violence - American Public Health Association
 

Irish YJ

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The "Preventable Causes of Deaths" chart is inherently flawed, right? The bar graphs compare the number of deaths from these causes annually. (Yet Gun deaths are only the homicides and does not reflect the 33,000 of all firearm deaths or the additional 70,000 injuries from firearms.)


The chart DOES reflect 33k. It does not reflect the injuries, but the chart does not reflect health issues of tobacco either. If you included all those with health issues, the 400k would I'm sure mushroom to 2M. We do know that second hand smoke accounts for 40k deaths, which is still more than the 33k deaths from handguns.

So, how do you want the government to "prevent" the causes of Obesity or Tobacco deaths? Do you expect governments to regulate food intake and exercise or ban tobacco and smoking?

Why not ban tobacco? From a purity standpoint, there's not a lot to argue about what it is, the lack of benefit, etc.. I'm a smoker and I'd love to see it happen. You can argue people are doing it to themselves, but not the 40k second hand smoke deaths. You can also argue that 2/3rds (22k of 33k) of gun deaths are suicides, and that's people doing it to themselves. Tobacco has no arguable need. No arguable benefit except for financial ones to corps and tax to the gov. Banning tobacco would stop or at minimum cut a huge piece of 400k deaths per year, millions of health issues, and a ton of money spent on those health issues. 15x at minimum more than guns.

Are you saying that all firearm homicides are preventable as are all tobacco and obesity deaths? Make my argument for me on how we prevent those 33,000 deaths and 70,000 injuries from firearms - closing the private gun sales loophole, expand background checks with mandatory reporting of violent crime and felony convictions, red flag and confiscate guns from those threatening to use them against others, trigger locks and gun safes mandatory, an easily searchable gun sales database, ban certain weapons, ammo and accessories, a longer waiting period, etc. We agree criminals might still find ways to get one of the 300 million guns - but why not make it harder instead of being able to buy one without a background check?

Preventable means in the context of the graph, as something that doesn't have to happen. Not natural. Could we prevent them all, no. Could they be prevented, yes in theory.

Like I said, I'd be happy to compromise all the above. All that IMO will likely make a very small dent. It's not like making seat belts or air bags mandatory.

The ATF’s Nonsensical Non-Searchable Gun Databases, Explained

We can and have enacted regulations that have significantly decreased deaths in many of those categories. Previous postings showed how mandatory seat belts significantly decreased accident deaths. A class action lawsuit with resultant labeling and significant penalties and has impacted the health hazards of tobacco. What more regulations should government do to decrease (or "prevent") deaths from alcohol?

Seat belts, horrible comparison. Guns are a Constitutional issue/argument.

Labeling tobacco..... LMFAO.... If that's what you call doing something, let's slap a label on guns and call it a day. What should be done? What do they do very addictive drugs like heroin and coke?

All of the regulations you and I would enact on gun sales and reporting have been proven to reduce firearm deaths. The gun lobby like the car industry with seatbelts and the tobacco industry with smoking resists those measures that will reduce firearm mortality and morbidity. Those and more are the recommendations by law enforcement, prosecuting attorneys, and health professionals.

So, unless you think all those causes of deaths are "preventable causes" and that graph was generated to make those flawed conclusions, let's just focus the discussion on which area is basically unregulated and what has worked in communities to reduce those deaths and what still needs to be enacted.

There's nothing wrong with the graph. It's data regarding deaths and associating it with a cause. It's not making any statement or giving any opinions.

My point is, and continues to be, if people are TRULY interested in saving lives, there are other things that kill far more and have less arguable benefit than guns. Libs and the media take up the cause because it's sexy. All of DC stays away from tobacco because of the tax revenue and billions of lobby dollars. The media prefers guns because it's generates clicks. Hypocrisy at it's best.
 

Irish YJ

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It reminds me of anti-gun politicians who have armed guards at all times.

ObamaGuns1.jpg


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Legacy

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Nation's largest teachers union, frustrated with gun-makers' response to shootings, turn to pension managers

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/19/teachers-union-looks-to-fund-companies-to-influence-gun-makers.html (CNBC)
- About one-quarter of the world's 5,500 exchange-traded funds and 15 percent of all mutual funds invest in at least one company involved in the firearms industry, according to Sustainalytics.
- The American Federation of Teachers asked the trustees of its pension funds to review their stock holdings and try to push fund managers to either shed investments in gun-makers and sellers or offer funds that have alternatives to firearms-makers.

Teachers' union threatens to dump Wells Fargo mortgage benefit program over gun support
https://www.mpamag.com/news/teacher...e-benefit-program-over-gun-support-97623.aspx (Mortgage Professionals)
The American Federation of Teachers (AFT) has issued an ultimatum against Wells Fargo threatening to withdraw the bank’s mortgages from its benefits program if Wells continues to support the gun lobby and gun manufacturers.

A meeting between AFT President Randi Weingarten and Wells CEO Tim Sloan is being negotiated.

AFT in March wrote Sloan about the union’s concerns about Wells Fargo’s connections with the NRA as well as its intention to stop offering Wells Fargo mortgages if the financial giant continues being the NRA banker.

AFT said it will dump its Wells Fargo mortgage program offered to members if Sloan continues the bank’s arms business. According to the union, the bank continues to bankroll the NRA and help gun manufacturers such as American Outdoor Brands, the parent company of Smith & Wesson, and Vista Outdoor borrow hundreds of millions of dollars.

187,000 students have been exposed to gun violence at school since Columbine. Many are never the same. - Chicago Tribune
Thirteen at Columbine. Twenty-six at Sandy Hook. Seventeen at Marjory Stoneman Douglas.

Over the past two decades, a handful of massacres that have come to define school shootings in this country are almost always remembered for the students and educators slain. Death tolls are repeated so often that the numbers and places become permanently linked.

What those figures fail to capture, though, is the collateral damage of this uniquely American crisis. Beginning with Columbine in 1999, more than 187,000 students attending at least 193 primary or secondary schools have experienced a shooting on campus during school hours, according to a yearlong Washington Post analysis. This means that the number of children who have been shaken by gunfire in the places they go to learn exceeds the population of Eugene, Oregon, or Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

A Kansas bill could make schools liable for shootings if they don't arm teachers
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/28/us/kansas-house-bill-arming-teachers-school-shooting-trnd/index.html
As the debate over arming teachers in schools reverberates across the country, Kansas is doubling down on the idea.

A new bill would not only authorize the arming of Kansas school staff, it would hold schools responsible if a shooting were to occur and the teachers and staff present were not allowed to be armed.

Here's the exact wording from House Bill 2789:
"In any action against a unified school district arising out of acts or omissions regarding the possession or use of firearms on the premises of such school district, there shall be a rebuttable presumption of negligence on the part of such school district when it is shown by evidence that such school district did not authorize any employee of such school district, other than school security officers, to carry concealed handguns..."

People could face jail time for identifying armed teachers if Kansas gun bill passes
Kansas bill: Outing armed teachers could put people in jail | The Kansas City Star

Additional (4/20/18):
National Teachers Union Cuts Ties With Wells Fargo Over Bank's Ties To NRA, Guns
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-with-wells-fargo-over-banks-ties-to-nra-guns
 
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Bishop2b5

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Waffle House shooting suspect may have 2 guns, was arrested near White House in 2017, police say | Fox News

A 29-year-old man shot up a Waffle House in the Nashville area, killing 4 and wounding 2 or 3 others. He was arrested by the Secret Service last year and he disrobed before the shooting in Nashville today. It seems he has some mental health issues. Suspect is still at large and presumed armed as two of his guns can't be accounted for.

A 29-year-old patron saw an opportunity while the shooter was reloading and attacked him, taking away his gun and apparently receiving a minor gunshot wound in the process. Gutsy guy who's a hero and likely saved several lives.
 

NorthDakota

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Waffle House shooting suspect may have 2 guns, was arrested near White House in 2017, police say | Fox News

A 29-year-old man shot up a Waffle House in the Nashville area, killing 4 and wounding 2 or 3 others. He was arrested by the Secret Service last year and he disrobed before the shooting in Nashville today. It seems he has some mental health issues. Suspect is still at large and presumed armed as two of his guns can't be accounted for.

A 29-year-old patron saw an opportunity while the shooter was reloading and attacked him, taking away his gun and apparently receiving a minor gunshot wound in the process. Gutsy guy who's a hero and likely saved several lives.

Kudos to the dude who took him down. Ballsy move. He should get rockstar treatment.

So...homie was arrested by the Secret Service? Man... that's something else. What's with these recent dudes and already being on Federal radar?

Also lmao at that dumb Parkland broad...called for the banning of ALL semi automatic weapons. It literally doesn't get dumber than that. Like....at all.
 

Bishop2b5

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Kudos to the dude who took him down. Ballsy move. He should get rockstar treatment.

So...homie was arrested by the Secret Service? Man... that's something else. What's with these recent dudes and already being on Federal radar?

Also lmao at that dumb Parkland broad...called for the banning of ALL semi automatic weapons. It literally doesn't get dumber than that. Like....at all.

After the arrest by the SS last year, his right to own a firearm was suspended and his guns confiscated and given to his dad. The dad gave them back to him. The dad's likely going to be in some trouble over this.
 

Legacy

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After the arrest by the SS last year, his right to own a firearm was suspended and his guns confiscated and given to his dad. The dad gave them back to him. The dad's likely going to be in some trouble over this.

I doubt the Dad will suffer any legal consequences in giving his son with mental illness back his guns that the son used to kill four persons at the Waffle House. We'll probably learn that the son had expressed to the family his continuing interest in murdering others and they did nothing.

Gun laws in Tennessee have few restrictions. The state doesn't require a permit to purchase or possess a long gun or handgun, is a "shall-issue" state, concealed carry reciprocity with thirty-five other states, NFA weapons are not restricted, background checks on private sales are not required, nor any restriction on assault weapons, magazine capacity, or owners to be licensed and the state laws preempts all local laws. All certifications are required to be completed by the state in fifteen days.

Firearm disability is limited to those who have been adjudicated as a "mental defective", judicially committed to or hospitalized in a mental institution, those who have had a court appoint a conservator for the applicant by reason of mental illness, developmental disability or other mental incapacity, and has not, within seven years from the date of application, been found by a court to pose an immediate substantial likelihood of serious harm because of the mental illness. The son would suffer a firearm disability due to any felony conviction. A 2009 Tennessee law requires submission of mental health records to NICS. The state’s circuit courts, criminal courts, general sessions courts, county/probate courts and chancery courts that have ordered a commitment to a mental institution or that have adjudicated a person as mentally defective required to report this fact to NICS and the Tennessee Department of Safety.

In 2015, Tennessee also enacted a law establishing procedures for an individual prohibited from possessing firearms under federal law for mental health reasons to petition for relief from the federal prohibition. A person who is subject to federal law’s mental health-related firearm prohibition because the person has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution may petition the court that entered the commitment or adjudication order once three years have elapsed from the person’s date of release from commitment or the date of the adjudication order, whichever is later.

Mental health professionals are required to report to police patients they judge could seriously harm or kill "reasonably identifiable victims." So the Dad of the murderer might only suffer consequences if he was the court-appointed conservator of his son who was adjudicated with mental illness. Otherwise, he is not required by Tennessee to report any worsening mental illness and/or dangerous behavior of his son in possession of an assault-style weapon to the police. The son may have stopped any follow-up visits to mental health professionals and stopped any prescribed medications. Unleess the father was a court-appointed conservator, he would not be required to report and mental health professionals would be unaware of these changes.

The NRA has fought in state courts laws that restrict gun possession by those who have been involuntarily commtted to mental institutions, arguing violation of their Second Amendment rights and violation of rights of Due process under the Fourteenth Amendment.
 
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Cackalacky

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Kudos to the dude who took him down. Ballsy move. He should get rockstar treatment.

Dude was a 29 year old African American, unarmed who took him down while the shooter tried to reload. He was reportedly targeting blacks at the waffle house. The shooter is currently not in custody.
 
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goldandblue

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Dude was a 29 year old African American, unarmed who took him down while the shooter tried to reload. He was reportedly targeting blacks at the waffle house. The shooter is currently not in custody.

I live just outside of Nashville and have watched hours of coverage on this and have not once seen where it was stated that he was targeting blacks??? Where do you get this info?
 
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Cackalacky

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I live just outside of Nashville and have watched hours of coverage on this and have not once seen where it was stated that he was targeting blacks??? Where do you get this info?

Its out there since he was a self described "Soverign Citizen" but MSM and authorities are clearly saying motives are unknown. That was a poorly worded post. I apologize.
 

Legacy

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In Feb, after Tenn Gov Bill Haslam proposed raising the age for buying weapons like the AR-15 to 21 and banning bump stocks, the NRA downgraded his rating to a C. The NRA was the driving force behind requiring police to resell guns confiscated in a crime at auction. Where there is a background check, purchase by felons or mentally ill has the potential for being obtained with a straw purchase. Even if the police kept the weapons, Dad or a friend over 18 could have purchased new ones. There are thirty-one gun shows scheduled in Tennessee for the remainder of the year where there are private purchases without background checks. At that rate, over forty gun shows are held in Tenn annually. n 2017, Tennessee enacted a law authorizing parties to bring suit against local governments if they are adversely affected by an ordinance, resolution, policy, rule, or other enactment that is adopted or enforced by the local government, or its agencies or officers, in violation of the state’s preemption law. This is similar to other laws backed by the NRA and for which NRA-backed lawsuits were brought in Pennsylvania against three cities including Philadelphia.
Waffle House boy was organized enough to plan his murders and formulate an effective escape plan.
 
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Cackalacky

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In custody and alive.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A tale of 2 Waffle Houses:<br><br>In Tennessee, an unarmed black man, James Shaw, disarmed a white domestic terrorist who murdered 4 people of color. <br><br>In Alabama, a black woman, Chikesia Clemons, was brutally arrested for complaining about being charged for a plastic spoon.<br><br>Same day.</p>— Eugene Gu, MD (@eugenegu) <a href="https://twitter.com/eugenegu/status/988454569997885440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 23, 2018</a></blockquote>
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IrishLax

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In custody and alive.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A tale of 2 Waffle Houses:<br><br>In Tennessee, an unarmed black man, James Shaw, disarmed a white domestic terrorist who murdered 4 people of color. <br><br>In Alabama, a black woman, Chikesia Clemons, was brutally arrested for complaining about being charged for a plastic spoon.<br><br>Same day.</p>— Eugene Gu, MD (@eugenegu) <a href="https://twitter.com/eugenegu/status/988454569997885440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 23, 2018</a></blockquote>
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I have issues with this tweet, because I don't see an analog at all between the other Waffle House incident and mass murder. The lady in question was trespassing after being asked to leave by the Waffle House, the cops asked her multiple times nicely to leave or comply, and then they physically removed her from the premises. The end. They did their job. Somehow that is "brutal" because...? If she at any point just listens to orders and leaves of her own volition they don't have to physically remove her.

And about what happened before the cops were called, Waffle House has straight up called her a liar, too.

Is the premise these days that black people shouldn't ever have to leave a dining establishment when asked by management? And should be immune from arrest?

Would think Smartypants, MD with his Stanford and Duke degrees would be able to see all the logical fallacies in his line of reasoning but *shrug*
 
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IrishLax

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Also while "sovereign citizens" have their roots in white extremist groups it has weirdly transitioned into other subsets of society as well in recent years... remember this guy from the other thread? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-officer-tells-judge/?utm_term=.8421bbe231d3

So it's not a guarantee that this guy was specifically targeting blacks, but given the location and the "sovereign citizen" ties I would put it at like 99%. I don't think it was coincidence that he shot up a place full of black people. And it's completely accurate to call him a domestic terrorist with those links.
 

Bishop2b5

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I have issues with this tweet, because I don't see an analog at all between the other Waffle House incident and mass murder. The lady in question was trespassing after being asked to leave by the Waffle House, the cops asked her multiple times nicely to leave or comply, and then they physically removed her from the premises. The end. They did their job. Somehow that is "brutal" because...? If she at any point just listens to orders and leaves of her own volition they don't have to physically remove her.

And about what happened before the cops were called, Waffle House has straight up called her a liar, too.

Is the premise these days that black people shouldn't ever have to leave a dining establishment when asked by management? And should be immune from arrest?

Would think Smartypants, MD with his Stanford and Duke degrees would be able to see all the logical fallacies in his line of reasoning but *shrug*

That's my view of all this too. It's more about twisting the facts and pushing an agenda than accurately and honestly reporting what actually happened. If I go into a Waffle House, act like an ass and am told to leave, refuse to do so and then resist or become combative when the cops show up, I can guarantee it'll end the same way: with me on the floor being cuffed. The woman acted stupidly and the cops did what they were supposed to do.
 
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Cackalacky

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I have issues with this tweet, because I don't see an analog at all between the other Waffle House incident and mass murder. The lady in question was trespassing after being asked to leave by the Waffle House, the cops asked her multiple times nicely to leave or comply, and then they physically removed her from the premises. The end. They did their job. Somehow that is "brutal" because...? If she at any point just listens to orders and leaves of her own volition they don't have to physically remove her.

And about what happened before the cops were called, Waffle House has straight up called her a liar, too.

Is the premise these days that black people shouldn't ever have to leave a dining establishment when asked by management? And should be immune from arrest?

Would think Smartypants, MD with his Stanford and Duke degrees would be able to see all the logical fallacies in his line of reasoning but *shrug*
Differing account provided here by a CBS affiliate.

The arrested woman was identified as Chikesia Clemons, CBS affiliate WKRG-TV reports. Her mother, Chiquitta Clemons-Howard, told AL.com that the incident stemmed from her daughter asking for plastic utensils as she was placing her order at the Waffle House early Sunday.

A woman working at the restaurant told Clemons that the utensils would cost 50 cents, Clemons-Howard told the website. Clemons and her friend, Canita Adams, told the woman that they didn't have to pay for utensils when they ate at the same Waffle House the previous night, according to Clemons-Howard.

The woman canceled the order, the mother said. Officers arrived at the Waffle House after Clemons asked for the contact information for the restautant's district manager.

"They didn't even ask her to leave, she was waiting for them to give her the district manager's card so she could file a complaint on one of the waitresses," Clemons-Howard told AL.com. "When they went to go get the card, that's when the police showed up. The officer should've come in and said we need you to leave."

"What are you doing?" Clemons asks.

"I'm about to break your arm, that's what I'm about to do," one officer told Clemons.

The officers then try to get Clemons to lay face-down on the floor. As she resists, one officer briefly wraps his arm around her neck and places his hand on her neck while a third officer leans over and tells Clemons that she's being placed under arrest and to roll over.

"What am I doing wrong?" Clemons asks. "What did i do wrong? Y'all haven't told me anything that I did wrong."

Clemons-Howard told AL.com that her daughter was booked on charges of disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. Clemons was released on $1,000 bond, her mother said.
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Polish Leppy 22

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9 killed after man in Toronto plows into pedestrians. A few things here...

1) even though I mentioned this possibility numerous times, it wasn't me.

2) Thoughts and prayers for the victims' families.

3) when do we start marching against van and truck violence?

4) will the leftists blame the auto manufacturers for these deaths and scream that they have blood on their hands?
 

Bishop2b5

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It's rather telling that the video was edited so that the first few minutes where the cops most certainly DID ask her politely to leave was left out. She most certainly was given every chance to do so and refused, which led to her being forcefully removed and then handcuffed and arrested after resisting. When you have to leave out relevant info or spin and present a dishonest presentation of what happened, that's a dead giveaway that the facts don't support your case.
 
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Cackalacky

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It's rather telling that the video was edited so that the first few minutes where the cops most certainly DID ask her politely to leave was left out. She most certainly was given every chance to do so and refused, which led to her being forcefully removed and then handcuffed and arrested after resisting. When you have to leave out relevant info or spin and present a dishonest presentation of what happened, that's a dead giveaway that the facts don't support your case.

FTR I am not making any case at all. That is the video that is provided. Virtually all versions are 1:35 minutes long. But you be you.
 

Rogue219

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Guy murders four people in a Waffle House and is being held on $2M bond.

Par meets course.
 

drayer54

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IWhere there is a background check, purchase by felons or mentally ill has the potential for being obtained with a straw purchase. Even if the police kept the weapons, Dad or a friend over 18 could have purchased new ones. There are thirty-one gun shows scheduled in Tennessee for the remainder of the year where there are private purchases without background checks.

This argument is absurd.
Any gun sale ever has a chance for a straw purchase. Somehow this one is more prone to it? We have serious laws against this crime, but I bet you'll struggle to find examples where it has been enforced.

A vast majority of the transactions that take place at a gun show have a background check conducted. Majority of the crimes we see in our state with a firearm occur from a prohibited owner. I believe this guy was as already flagged, banned, and prohibited. In fact, he had already had 4 guns confiscated. The gun control measures didn't work. The thousands of some odd regulations in place didn't work. Perhaps we have a criminal justice problem and a mental health problem.
Common sense gun control means repealing gun control that flat out doesn't work.
 

IrishLax

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Differing account provided here by a CBS affiliate.

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Waffle House released a statement that
"They didn't even ask her to leave, she was waiting for them to give her the district manager's card so she could file a complaint on one of the waitresses"
is not true. They said there are multiple parts of her account that they refute. The cops also said it's not true. It's doesn't even pass the plausibility smell test. And there are, allegedly, no eye witness accounts besides that of her friend that was filming that back up her ridiculous story.

The series of events -- per every sensible account, and every account that isn't from her side that has been released -- is that she was being a nuisance, was asked to leave (she refused), cops were called and asked her to leave (she refused), and then she resisted arrest. Every account that is not from her or her friend points to her being a drunk idiot that was making a scene... she later threw up at the police station (allegedly) because of her level of intoxication.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saraland-waffle-house-arrest-police-restaurant-defend-actions/

employees called them reporting trouble with a woman who appeared drunk and had been asked to leave for bringing in what employees believed to be alcohol.

When they arrived, witnesses told them that Chikesia Clemons had indicated she might have a gun and might shoot people.
In a statement released by company spokesman Greg Rollings, Georgia-based Waffle House said it had information that "differs significantly" from claims by the woman.
"After reviewing our security video of the incident and eye witness accounts, police intervention was appropriate," the statement said.

So the closest parallel to this is drunk person roughly getting bounced from a bar when they refuse to leave... not mass murder by a domestic terrorist. Look, usually I'm *extremely* critical of cops and bad policing. In this case, it seems like they were literally just doing their job and doing it well... but guys like Twitter Doc have to make everything fit the narrative.
 

Legacy

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This argument is absurd.
Any gun sale ever has a chance for a straw purchase. Somehow this one is more prone to it? We have serious laws against this crime, but I bet you'll struggle to find examples where it has been enforced.

A vast majority of the transactions that take place at a gun show have a background check conducted. Majority of the crimes we see in our state with a firearm occur from a prohibited owner. I believe this guy was as already flagged, banned, and prohibited. In fact, he had already had 4 guns confiscated. The gun control measures didn't work. The thousands of some odd regulations in place didn't work. Perhaps we have a criminal justice problem and a mental health problem.
Common sense gun control means repealing gun control that flat out doesn't work.

Research statistics have been hampered by NRA-backed legislation prohibiting fed government agencies from collecting numbers on gun violence. However, the National Instant Check system has, since its inception in 1998, put a stop to more than 1.5 million attempted gun transfers by people with records falling into one of the categories of prohibited people.

The 12 Reasons Why Americans Fail Federal Gun Background Checks
https://www.thetrace.org/2015/07/gun-background-checks-nics-failure/
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/federal_denials.pdf/view

Gun show figures:
Just How Many People Get Guns Without a Background Check? Fast-Tracked Research Is Set to Provide an Answer
Azrael was not ready to provide specific numbers, as the research is still being readied for formal release, and those figures will merit thorough examination once they are made public. But here’s how she says the numbers stack up about how Americans acquire their firearms.

- Roughly 70 percent: Gun owners who purchased their most recent gun.
- Roughly 30 percent: Gun owners who did not purchase their most recent gun, instead obtaining it through a transfer (i.e., a gift, an inheritance, a swap between friends).
- Zeroing in on the population of gun buyers, about 34 percent did not go through a background check.
- Among the gun owners who got their firearms through a transfer, roughly two-thirds did not go through a background check.

Add it up, and it works out to:

- Roughly 60 percent: the share of gun owners surveyed who did go through a background check when they obtained (through sale or transfer) their latest gun.
- Roughly 40 percent: the share of gun owners who did not.

Azrael says that when results from the survey are published, they’ll note the distinction between gun sales and gun transfers, and provide more information on where these unregulated exchanges take place. In total, she estimates Harvard’s findings translate to 20 million guns that have been obtained without a background check.

“We’re talking about millions and millions of guns that have been [sold or] transfered without anyone making sure the recipient was legally permitted to have one,” she says. “That number gives me more pause than the percentages.”
https://www.thetrace.org/2015/10/private-sale-loophole-background-check-harvard-research/

So you would like to repeal gun control legislation with a background check system rather than expand it to cover private sales so that criminals can obtain guns without a background check from any seller because background checks don't work all the time? Interesting logic.

Eighty-seven percent of non-gun owners and seventy-seven percent of gun owners favor a background check on all private sales and gun shows.
Americans’ views on guns and gun ownership: 8 key findings | Pew Research Center

"We think it is reasonable to provide mandatory, instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show. No loopholes anywhere for anyone." Wayne LaPierre, NRA President, testifing before the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, 1999
 
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C

Cackalacky

Guest
Waffle House released a statement that is not true. They said there are multiple parts of her account that they refute. The cops also said it's not true. It's doesn't even pass the plausibility smell test. And there are, allegedly, no eye witness accounts besides that of her friend that was filming that back up her ridiculous story.

The series of events -- per every sensible account, and every account that isn't from her side that has been released -- is that she was being a nuisance, was asked to leave (she refused), cops were called and asked her to leave (she refused), and then she resisted arrest. Every account that is not from her or her friend points to her being a drunk idiot that was making a scene... she later threw up at the police station (allegedly) because of her level of intoxication.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saraland-waffle-house-arrest-police-restaurant-defend-actions/





So the closest parallel to this is drunk person roughly getting bounced from a bar when they refuse to leave... not mass murder by a domestic terrorist. Look, usually I'm *extremely* critical of cops and bad policing. In this case, it seems like they were literally just doing their job and doing it well... but guys like Twitter Doc have to make everything fit the narrative.

If this is the case then I have zero problems with what happened. But, anecdotally, I have been drunk in a Waffle House late night a shit ton of times and, with my friends, acted a damn fool (way worse than bitching about 50 cent sporks) and never had the cops called on us either. My buddy ripped one of their booths clean out of the slab one time roughhousing....for example.

and FTR... in this and many other threads (more recently) I feel like people here think I post these things and actually hold the positions espoused by the links or info. I need to be clear that unless I expressly state my position, I am more than likely just providing info for discussion. In this case, I did not agree with McDoctor SJW. His tweet was very typical of many in my feed.
 
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ACamp1900

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So the closest parallel to this is drunk person roughly getting bounced from a bar when they refuse to leave... not mass murder by a domestic terrorist. Look, usually I'm *extremely* critical of cops and bad policing. In this case, it seems like they were literally just doing their job and doing it well... but guys like Twitter Doc have to make everything fit the narrative.

I think we align pretty well on police matters, body cams, better screening/selection and enough with unarmed people of any color, anywhere getting shot... but yeah we are to the point now where far too many have a fantasy world view of us versus them at all times and truth be damned. It now seems if any opportunity arises to spin doctor something into an anti cop narrative then so will it be.
 

Bishop2b5

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FTR I am not making any case at all. That is the video that is provided. Virtually all versions are 1:35 minutes long. But you be you.

Sorry Cack, I wasn't insinuating that you edited it and left the first part of it out. I think the person who took the video (one of the people with her) very likely filmed the entire encounter from the time police first arrived, but left out the part where they politely asked her to leave and only posted the aftermath where they forcefully restrain her and cuff her. That gives a very different narrative than showing the entire event and what led to her being cuffed. Other patrons say the police absolutely did ask her nicely to just leave and the problem started when she refused to cooperate and became belligerent.
 
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