Alton Sterling

[ACamp1900]

Here's what I don't understand. I get that you don't shoot for the legs when someone is running at you with a crow bar because you could miss.

Police are risking their necks, and society has agreed that they get to kill you if they feel threatened.

Fine.

But why is there no way to stop a guy going for a gun in his pocket short of killing the guy, when he is already on the ground and there are two of you on top of him?

Why is there no training on breaking the guys hand or wrist or something? Why is there no short range weapon other than the gun?

Seems like there has to be a better way.

I don't have the answers to these, but they are pretty much the same questions I've been asking myself...

 

[wizards8507]

Here's what I don't understand. I get that you don't shoot for the legs when someone is running at you with a crow bar because you could miss.

Police are risking their necks, and society has agreed that they get to kill you if they feel threatened.

Fine.

But why is there no way to stop a guy going for a gun in his pocket short of killing the guy, when he is already on the ground and there are two of you on top of him?

Why is there no training on breaking the guys hand or wrist or something? Why is there no short range weapon other than the gun?

Seems like there has to be a better way.

I don't have any great answers, but this was a big dude.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HN9FfLCu1cI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

They taze this guy at 0:52 and he's completely impervious to it.

EDIT: It's even worse if and when drugs are involved.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HcNTxZv8rhU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If this guy were black, this is Rodney King. Instead, it's an example of "good cop" on an obscure YouTube channel.

 

[GoIrish41]

The population isn't a very good proxy in this case. Total population is irrelevant if a specific demographic subset of that population commits more crime and has a higher number of encounters with police.

It's like saying "accounting majors are only 2% of the population but make up 90% of the hiring from accounting firms." No shit.

No. It's nothing like that. Not at all. Black people are not predisposed to committing crime like accounting majors are to working for accounting firms. If this is what you think, that is real fucked up. I hope you just used a bad analogy and you don't think that.

Consider the possibility just this once that black people may have a higher number of encounters with police is because police are more focused on black people than they are on white people. Maybe they "commit more crime" because they get caught committing more crimes, because the police are watching them instead of white dudes who are doing the same stuff they are.

 

[Monk]

Seems a little off considering there is significantly more white people than black people.

I would like to see the numbers in relation to location, urban, suburban, and rural as well as economic status.

 

[wizards8507]

No. It's nothing like that. Not at all. Blacks are not predisposed to committing crime like accounting majors are to working for accounting firms. If this is what you think, that is real fucked up. I hope you just used a bad analogy and you don't think that.

Consider the possibility just this once that blacks may have a higher number of encounters with police is because police are more focused on black people than they are on white people. Maybe they "commit more crime" because they get caught committing more crimes, because the police are watching them instead of white dudes who are doing the same stuff they are.

Of course black people aren't predisposed to committing more crime but that doesn't change the fact that they do commit more crime. The biggest driver of crime is poverty and the poverty among blacks is over twice that of non-Hispanic whites. In other words, the black crime rate is not driven by race, it's driven by poverty. Poverty begets crime which begets poverty and so on.

Keeping in mind the relative poverty rates among racial groups, it's also important to note that violent crime is especially skewed towards lowing income levels. Violent crime is more likely to elicit violent enforcement than non-violent or white-collar crime.

 

[IrishLax]

In what universe is a guy reaching for his gun not a threat? Oh, yours apparently. Sorry you don't comprehend real life.

You're acting like a petulant child who can't get over the fact that you grossly misinterpreted, and you should stop posting in this thread

I didn't follow up because I'm not arguing whether or not Sterling was in fact reaching, I simply commented on the fact that you wouldn't care if he was. That's what didn't make sense to me. You then tried to turn it to a conversation about this specific case.

It's called clarifying. All I did was try to elbaorate on what I meant and intended to convey in the original statement. You could've said "oh that's what you meant, well I disagree because..." but instead your tact is more like "nah that's not how I read it so fuck you."

Clownish.

 

[phgreek]

Falcon Heights just honestly bothers me so much that I literally did not sleep last night. I saw it right before going to bed and just could not fall asleep afterwards... instead stayed up reading and thinking and doing some design work until the morning.

Here's my thing... Alton Sterling, while unjust, is not the kind of person I lose sleep over. I just don't, not with that record. I don't really care if a pedophile, domestic abuser, druggie, gang member carrying an illegal firearm dies in some strange confluence of circumstance. Maybe that's a flaw in my humanity... but we need gun control to protect us from felons like Alton Sterling who illegally carry hand guns. So... whatever. If he wasn't illegally carrying a firearm I'm pretty sure he'd still be alive, don't you?

But in Minnesota that man was a law abiding citizen. He pulled his car over immediately. He told the officer up front that he had a weapon... a LEGAL weapon. He tried to do everything right. And he still got killed. That's just so fucked up. I don't mean to get overly emotional on the internet but his death is not only an injustice, it's a tragedy. And it makes me really sad, and really disappointed. This kind of shit is tearing the country apart.

yea...I am really sad...angry...frustrated at the Minnesota incident. The guy did what we are all taught to do...more or less. WTF?

I gotta believe that cop had some issues before all this because he totally panicked and killed this guy...for what?

 

[phork]

yea...I am really sad...angry...frustrated at the Minnesota incident. The guy did what we are all taught to do...more or less. WTF?

I gotta believe that cop had some issues before all this because he totally panicked and killed this guy...for what?

Is there an account of what happened not from the girl friend? I just kind of browsed over this story but it seems like the video starts after the shooting and its all her side.

 

[wizards8507]

Is there an account of what happened not from the girl friend? I just kind of browsed over this story but it seems like the video starts after the shooting and its all her side.

That's correct. We know absolutely nothing.

It also feels tremendously sketchy to me. Why would the girlfriend's first reaction to her boyfriend getting shot be to pull out her phone and start live-streaming the aftermath on Facebook? Makes absolutely no sense.

 

[GoIrish41]

That's correct. We know absolutely nothing.

It also feels tremendously sketchy to me. Why would the girlfriend's first reaction to her boyfriend getting shot be to pull out her phone and start live-streaming the aftermath on Facebook? Makes absolutely no sense.

Maybe she thought it would save her life after some lunatic just killed her boyfriend and he won't do the same to her because everyone can see?

 

[Irish2155]

Haven't read a word of this thread...

What a brutal killing by police, the one in Minnesota too. I listen to the President speak now...someway, somehow we have to realize this is a two way street. People need to respect the law and what is there for. At the same time cops need to learn that their badge does not only empower you but also holds one to a higher standard. We have some bad cops, I've seen that more than once in my life. We also have some bad citizens who need need to respect authority. It is a fine line that this country needs to learn.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[Irish YJ]

Maybe she thought it would save her life after some lunatic just killed her boyfriend and he won't do the same to her because everyone can see?

IDK. If that were my spouse, I wouldn't be calmly shooting and narrating a vid on FB. I'd be trying to stop the bleeding. I only watched it once in haste, so maybe I took it the wrong way.

Did the cop tell her not to help her husband? I think if anything, the cop would have told her to put the phone down. I mean the whole thing just seems strange. If the guy truly announced that he had a gun and was cooperating, why did the cop shoot. If you say the cop didn't care and just wanted to shoot the guy, why wouldn't he have shot the wife? he could have just said she was reaching for something, right...? I don't understand why he would shoot someone for doing nothing, but not shoot a woman reaching for a phone. At least not if he just wanted to shoot a black person.

If the guy did shoot the driver for nothing, he should fry. I'll flip the switch.

 

[Irish YJ]

Haven't read a word of this thread...

What a brutal killing by police, the one in Minnesota too. I listen to the President speak now...someway, somehow we have to realize this is a two way street. People need to respect the law and what is there for. At the same time cops need to learn that their badge does not only empower you but also holds one to a higher standard. We have some bad cops, I've seen that more than once in my life. We also have some bad citizens who need need to respect authority. It is a fine line that this country needs to learn.

I'll leave it at that.

Best post of the thread.

 

[pkt77242]

IDK. If that were my spouse, I wouldn't be calmly shooting and narrating a vid on FB. I'd be trying to stop the bleeding. I only watched it once in haste, so maybe I took it the wrong way.

Did the cop tell her not to help her husband? I think if anything, the cop would have told her to put the phone down. I mean the whole thing just seems strange. If the guy truly announced that he had a gun and was cooperating, why did the cop shoot. If you say the cop didn't care and just wanted to shoot the guy, why wouldn't he have shot the wife? he could have just said she was reaching for something, right...? I don't understand why he would shoot someone for doing nothing, but not shoot a woman reaching for a phone. At least not if he just wanted to shoot a black person.

If the guy did shoot the driver for nothing, he should fry. I'll flip the switch.

The cop repeatedly told her not to move.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

You have to admit it's a really bad idea to struggle with the cops, who are responding to a man with a gun call, to then get a gun pointed in your face and told not to move and continue struggling. Especially when one cop yells out gun gun gun he's got a gun.

My question about this is the shots to the back. Every video I've seen shows he was lieing on his back then gets shot while lieing on his back. That has to mean dude sat up or rolled over right?
I also saw a few reports that state he had been tased twice as well, though I'm not sure exactly how reliable they are, but those facts together make me think guy may have been on something which would explain his actions. He really may not have known where he was or what was going on.

 

[Irish YJ]

The cop repeatedly told her not to move.

But she took time to grab her phone and film fearing she would be shot instead of trying to apply pressure to the wound while fearing to be shot. something just doesn't make sense to me. not saying at all this was a good shooting, or bad for that matters. just some things don't make perfect sense to me. What would you do if your spouse was bleeding to death. Film, or apply pressure. narrate, or cry.

 

[pkt77242]

But she took time to grab her phone and film fearing she would be shot instead of trying to apply pressure to the wound while fearing to be shot. something just doesn't make sense to me. not saying at all this was a good shooting, or bad for that matters. just some things don't make perfect sense to me. What would you do if your spouse was bleeding to death. Film, or apply pressure. narrate, or cry.

My guess is the phone was already in her hands this she could follow order "don't move" and film.

I would have tried to help my spouse but I can also see the other side of being too afraid to move especially if the cop just shot someone unprovoked. You might be too afraid to disobey.

 

[pkt77242]

I also found it weird that they handcuffed her as she did nothing wrong. Now I could understand a pat down to verify that she didn't have a weapon.

 

[pumpdog20]

You're acting like a petulant child who can't get over the fact that you grossly misinterpreted, and you should stop posting in this thread



It's called clarifying. All I did was try to elbaorate on what I meant and intended to convey in the original statement. You could've said "oh that's what you meant, well I disagree because..." but instead your tact is more like "nah that's not how I read it so fuck you."

Clownish.

LOL, maybe you can point to where you were clarifying. With each post you've continue to say you don't care if he was reaching for his gun and have qualified it each time by saying the act doesn't constitute being shot and doesn't impose a danger. I get though, you don't want to admit your wrong. So keep up with the bullshit answers and the neg reps.

 

[Irish YJ]

My guess is the phone was already in her hands this she could follow order "don't move" and film.

I would have tried to help my spouse but I can also see the other side of being too afraid to move especially if the cop just shot someone unprovoked. You might be too afraid to disobey.

I just can't see the other side. If I had my phone in my hand, I might have started the vid, but I would have then told the cop,,,, "I'm live broadcasting you on FB. You just put 4 bullets in my spouse. I'm going to apply pressure to the wound now. Please don't shoot me." That's if I could think straight. If I couldn't, I would have tossed the phone and tried to save my spouse.

If someone shot my girl for no reason, or for any reason, I just can't see a scenario where my first priority isn't trying to save her life. Just does not compute.

 

[Irish YJ]

I also found it weird that they handcuffed her as she did nothing wrong. Now I could understand a pat down to verify that she didn't have a weapon.

I'd bet whoever cuffed her did not know exactly what just happened, or was following protocol. We also don't know what preceded the shooting either. If you're a cop arriving on the scene, approach a car where one of your fellow cops just shot someone, you're probably making it your first priority just to secure the scene and diminish the chance of anything else happening.

 

[wizards8507]

My guess is the phone was already in her hands this she could follow order "don't move" and film.

She didn't just record it. She live streamed to Facebook. That takes some time and effort to set up.

 

[pkt77242]

She didn't just record it. She live streamed to Facebook. That takes some time and effort to set up.

No it doesn't. Especially if you are already in the Facebook app.

 

[Irish Insanity]

But she took time to grab her phone and film fearing she would be shot instead of trying to apply pressure to the wound while fearing to be shot. something just doesn't make sense to me. not saying at all this was a good shooting, or bad for that matters. just some things don't make perfect sense to me. What would you do if your spouse was bleeding to death. Film, or apply pressure. narrate, or cry.

I could see her being on her phone, on FB, when initially pulled over before the situation getting to the point it was. Possibly even starting the live stream as it happened and only happens to catch after the shooting.
People want to use the 'we only know the passengers side of the story and it doesn't make sense' BS. We only know her side because the officers and department need to get their 'story' straight first.

She didn't just record it. She live streamed to Facebook. That takes some time and effort to set up.

No

 

[Irish YJ]

I could see her being on her phone, on FB, when initially pulled over before the situation getting to the point it was. Possibly even starting the live stream as it happened and only happens to catch after the shooting.
People want to use the 'we only know the passengers side of the story and it doesn't make sense' BS. We only know her side because the officers and department need to get their 'story' straight first.

First of all, I don't condone a senseless shooting, if that is indeed what it was. We don't have all the info. That is fact. We have her video, that's a fact. I'm on record saying I'm happy to throw the switch if the cop shot this guy for no reason. And I'm sorry, I don't believe I'd react that way even if I was on FB at the time. I does not make sense to me.

That said, I didn't say she or her husband are at fault. Her actions simply don't make sense to me. That OK? And the cops are taught not to comment till they have their union rep or representation with them. That's their process/policy. If you want to assume you know exactly what happened, that's your right. Judging me or calling something that doesn't compute to me as BS though? If it computes to you, fine. That's your opinion..

 

[TDHeysus]

When the rodney king beaters were acquitted in simi valley I had feelings of 'something needs to be happen, those cops are going get off with no charges'. Soon after, the LA riots went down and while I didnt agree with the looting and what happened, I believe without question that if the Riots didnt happen, them cops would have completely walked without even as much as civil suit against them. I truly believe the riots forced the hands of law enforcement to not only have a civil suit against those cops, but ultimately convict them.

Some sh*t needs to happen now, this is out of hand...and getting worse. if something isnt done (which I have no inclination to believe it will) then some sh*t is gonna go down. History has shown, 'it' needs to go down for anyone to react. 1965, 1992.....we're overdue.

ADDED: that racist, liar cop in south carolina who planted the gun next to the guy after he shot him in the back needs to f*ckin burn too.

 

[Irish Insanity]

First of all, I don't condone a senseless shooting, if that is indeed what it was. We don't have all the info. That is fact. We have her video, that's a fact. I'm on record saying I'm happy to throw the switch if the cop shot this guy for no reason. And I'm sorry, I don't believe I'd react that way even if I was on FB at the time. I does not make sense to me.

That said, I didn't say she or her husband are at fault. Her actions simply don't make sense to me. That OK? And the cops are taught not to comment till they have their union rep or representation with them. That's their process/policy. If you want to assume you know exactly what happened, that's your right. Judging me or calling something that doesn't compute to me as BS though? If it computes to you, fine. That's your opinion..

Relax.
The first part of my post I used terms like 'I could see' and 'possibly'.
The second part wasn't even aimed at you. It cast a broad net over those with that direct narrative.
And rarely, if ever, do you even see a cop speak after he has consulted with his union reps. They typically say nothing until, or if, it gets to court. Which is the right decision legally. However, it still stands as a fact that we only know her side as she's the only one talking.

 

[Irish YJ]

When the rodney king beaters were acquitted in simi valley I had feelings of 'something needs to be happen, those cops are going get off with no charges'. Soon after, the LA riots went down and while I didnt agree with the looting and what happened, I believe without question that if the Riots didnt happen, them cops would have completely walked without even as much as civil suit against them. I truly believe the riots forced the hands of law enforcement to not only have a civil suit against those cops, but ultimately convict them.

Some sh*t needs to happen now, this is out of hand...and getting worse. if something isnt done (which I have no inclination to believe it will) then some sh*t is gonna go down. History has shown, 'it' needs to go down for anyone to react. 1965, 1992.....we're overdue

I don't think riots or violence right now would do anything except make the divide grow. It's wide enough already, and IMO could grow much wider before any negative event would cause it to get better.

 

[TDHeysus]

I don't think riots or violence right now would do anything except make the divide grow. It's wide enough already, and IMO could grow much wider before any negative event would cause it to get better.

I bet you would have said the same thing in 92

 

[Irish YJ]

Relax.
The first part of my post I used terms like 'I could see' and 'possibly'.
The second part wasn't even aimed at you. It cast a broad net over those with that direct narrative.
And rarely, if ever, do you even see a cop speak after he has consulted with his union reps. They typically say nothing until, or if, it gets to court. Which is the right decision legally. However, it still stands as a fact that we only know her side as she's the only one talking.

Based on you verbiage, it looked like you were calling me out directly. No worries if you weren't.