All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)

[PolishDomer]

It's why I'm pretty firmly in the camp of saying the only truly good Star Wars movies are ANH and ESB. People rightfully bag on RotJ for the Ewoks and Han having nothing to do but Leia being Luke's sister is such a stupid plot twist/contrivance. I get that it comes up during the duel with Vader but it reeks of fanfiction and shrank the universe so much.

Dont get me started on the Expanded Universe bs that Disney pulled as "Legends"...so many good storylines there

 

[stlnd01]

It's why I'm pretty firmly in the camp of saying the only truly good Star Wars movies are ANH and ESB. People rightfully bag on RotJ for the Ewoks and Han having nothing to do but Leia being Luke's sister is such a stupid plot twist/contrivance. I get that it comes up during the duel with Vader but it reeks of fanfiction and shrank the universe so much.

Rogue One is excellent. The third best and could stand alone as a compelling movie. And I actually liked The Last Jedi, though it’s not nearly at the level of New Hope and Empire. And of course exists mainly in response to them.

 

[calvegas04]

Rogue One is excellent. The third best and could stand alone as a compelling movie. And I actually liked The Last Jedi, though it’s not nearly at the level of New Hope and Empire. And of course exists mainly in response to them.

Rouge One and Andor together is top tier Star Wars

 

[greyhammer90]

Dont get me started on the Expanded Universe bs that Disney pulled as "Legends"...so many good storylines there

Oh my sweet darling Grand Admiral Thrawn and Mara Jade

Rogue One is excellent. The third best and could stand alone as a compelling movie. And I actually liked The Last Jedi, though it’s not nearly at the level of New Hope and Empire. And of course exists mainly in response to them.

I'll die on the hill that Rouge One is garbage but I get why people like it. You get major cred points from me for recognizing that tLJ, while a very flawed movie, is clearly the best of the new trilogy. Poor Rian Johnson took the hit for JJ's bullshit.

 

[GATTACA!]

Fuck the last jedi.

Abrams made a solid, albeit safe, foundation for the sequels. The plot was a rehash but the characters were good and had interesting avenues to develop. Johnson took it all and threw it in the trash just for the sake of being subversive. He ruined Luke. Completely misunderstood the entire character. Wasted Finn by turning him into a lame pointless sidekick. Gave us his subplot/love story with cringe Rose. Canto Bights was prequel quality. Turned Poe into a retard. Flying around making yo mamma jokes. The first order is now a complete incompetent joke. Wasted Domhnall Gleeson. Practically had him turning to the camera and winking his shit was so cheesy. Marry Poppins Leia. In the end not even having the balls to turn Rey to the dark side.

FFS I fucking hate that movie. Cracked the door wide open on me not giving a shit about Star Wars anymore.

 

[Notre Dame Joe]

Oh my sweet darling Grand Admiral Thrawn and Mara Jade

I'll die on the hill that Rouge One is garbage but I get why people like it. You get major cred points from me for recognizing that tLJ, while a very flawed movie, is clearly the best of the new trilogy. Poor Rian Johnson took the hit for JJ's bullshit.

That is because Rogue 1 isn't a Star Wars movie. It's a war movie that takes place in the Star Wars setting.

 

[stlnd01]

Fuck the last jedi.

Abrams made a solid, albeit safe, foundation for the sequels. The plot was a rehash but the characters were good and had interesting avenues to develop. Johnson took it all and threw it in the trash just for the sake of being subversive. He ruined Luke. Completely misunderstood the entire character. Wasted Finn by turning him into a lame pointless sidekick. Gave us his subplot/love story with cringe Rose. Canto Bights was prequel quality. Turned Poe into a retard. Flying around making yo mamma jokes. The first order is now a complete incompetent joke. Wasted Domhnall Gleeson. Practically had him turning to the camera and winking his shit was so cheesy. Marry Poppins Leia. In the end not even having the balls to turn Rey to the dark side.

FFS I fucking hate that movie. Cracked the door wide open on me not giving a shit about Star Wars anymore.

I don't have strong feelings about most of the third-trilogy characters but will agree to disagree on that one. The notion that Luke - who let's face it has seen A LOT of shit he never asked for - might be burned out on the entire Jedi enterprise and just done with all of it, is one of the most human and relatable things about that character.

 

[BilboBaggins]

You get major cred points from me for recognizing that tLJ, while a very flawed movie, is clearly the best of the new trilogy. Poor Rian Johnson took the hit for JJ's bullshit.

No man. Just... no. It's an abomination.

 

[BilboBaggins]

We, as a society, need to normalize retconning.

It should be socially acceptable for Disney to say "you know what... these sucked. Our bad. We are going to scratch all of that and start over." Fans get to shitcan bad work, corporations get to print money with another attempt... it's a win-win.

"Hey everyone, good news... we agree that the last Game of Thrones season was hot garbage, so instead of making other shows on top of the carcass of the GoT universe, we've decided to just redo the season. See you in two years."

*money machine starts printing*

 

[IrishLion]

I liked TLJ because I think the overarching “story” of Star Wars required subversion.

Sometimes subversion for subversions sake is lazy. But I think setting Luke up in the first movie as a hero in hiding, cutting himself off from the force because of mistakes he’s made, was a good way to shift the narrative towards a new era.

The execution of subplots and focus on certain characters wasn’t great, but the main story, setting Rey up as a true “nobody” makes the most sense within the lore of Star Wars and the Force.

Finding Luke just to bring him back as the badass hero warrior would have ALSO been lazy, so I think TLJ did what it could to jump into the deep end in terms of pushing to something new. They still gave him a hero’s end, and let him join the Force the same way Obi-Wan did.

Not sure where it was supposed to have gone after Snoke got killed off, except the obvious Kylo vs Rey.

I also don’t get the argument that TLJ ruined/went against Luke’s established character. My guy went from “kind of a whiney bitch” to “young adult with lack of confidence” to “wise Jedi master” in three films, and only a few meaningful events actually shown to us.

Is it a thing for people that read the EU and expect the hero Luke from those books to have acted differently? I didn’t read any of the EU except some grade school books back in the day that expanded on some kid-level Vader stuff, so that’s an honest question lol

 

[greyhammer90]

Fuck the last jedi.

Abrams made a solid, albeit safe, foundation for the sequels. The plot was a rehash but the characters were good and had interesting avenues to develop. Johnson took it all and threw it in the trash just for the sake of being subversive. He ruined Luke. Completely misunderstood the entire character.

Nah man. Anything that was "ruined" about Luke was done by Abrams. Abrams put Luke on a planet being a hermit, under no apparent strain or danger, while his friends were struggling against an existential threat. Abrams made it so that Luke was the person who had disinvolved himself with the rebellion. So Abrams put Johnson in a situation where he had to explain why Luke would do that. Johnson looked at the situation he was given and correctly thought "the only reason Luke would exile himself like this is if he thought it was the right thing to do" and he came up with one of the only plausible explanations available. Not only that, but its an explanation rooted in an idea that has been previously strongly hinted at in the larger universe (that the force is self balancing, and the large existence of a light side of the force necessarily means there will be an equal rise of the dark).

Also Luke's death is basically perfect. It 1) establishes that he has become so powerful in the ways of the force that he can do things that are thought impossible, 2) shows the audience what they think a Jedi should be (a guy with a lightsaber taking on the whole Empire), and 3) shows the audience what a Jedi ACTUALLY IS (a monk who is knowingly killing himself to save as many lives as possible during an evacuation through pacifist meditation).

There are a lot of criticisms for the tLJ I agree with. It's cringey Marvel dialouge, its occasionally preachy tone, a few really bad effects, etc. I will always defend Johnson's larger story points though. He was given shit, turned it into bronze, and then watched as Disney turned his bronze back into a shit sandwich.

 

[tussin]

The entire sequel trilogy is a joke and is the primary driver of the franchise's cultural decline (along with inevitable Disney oversaturation). The characters were all terrible and the story unoriginal. It's why nothing from the sequels has had any staying power whatsoever with fans.

Rey was a Mary Sue. Kylo was an emo boy. Finn was irrelevant, Poe was a joke. Rose was Rose. And then they massacred each and every one of the OT characters on top of it all.

I saw a likely fake news story that Disney is considering rebooting the franchise and acting like the sequel trilogy never happened. That would be great but they don't have the guts to do it.

 

[IrishLax]

I liked TLJ because I think the overarching “story” of Star Wars required subversion.

Sometimes subversion for subversions sake is lazy. But I think setting Luke up in the first movie as a hero in hiding, cutting himself off from the force because of mistakes he’s made, was a good way to shift the narrative towards a new era.

The execution of subplots and focus on certain characters wasn’t great, but the main story, setting Rey up as a true “nobody” makes the most sense within the lore of Star Wars and the Force.

Finding Luke just to bring him back as the badass hero warrior would have ALSO been lazy, so I think TLJ did what it could to jump into the deep end in terms of pushing to something new. They still gave him a hero’s end, and let him join the Force the same way Obi-Wan did.

Not sure where it was supposed to have gone after Snoke got killed off, except the obvious Kylo vs Rey.

I also don’t get the argument that TLJ ruined/went against Luke’s established character. My guy went from “kind of a whiney bitch” to “young adult with lack of confidence” to “wise Jedi master” in three films, and only a few meaningful events actually shown to us.

Is it a thing for people that read the EU and expect the hero Luke from those books to have acted differently? I didn’t read any of the EU except some grade school books back in the day that expanded on some kid-level Vader stuff, so that’s an honest question lol

This is what I don't really get... how anyone thinks it's an enjoyable / good movie irrespective of plot holes or other issues. The movie just sucks start to finish.

The opening scene with Poe cracking your mama jokes, then you're supposed to get this heartfelt thing where Rose's sister makes a huge sacrifice to save the day and blow up the enemy ship which is then totally undermined by what happens with Finn at the end of the movie.

Leia gets blasted into space... and then survives by force magic-ing her way back onto the ship. Sure. A bold movie would've actually just killed her right there and then and could've explored how Kylo couldn't pull the trigger // but still probably feels a lot of guilt because he still loved his mom or whatever. You know, basic character development.

Mutiny against purple hair that is a miscommunication trope so bad it makes young adult fiction authors blush.

And on and on and on. It's a bad, boring movie with pacing problems and a lack of seriousness. It has literally zero redeeming qualities.