All things RB

[Junkhead]

I'm not going to say Cam is the next Barry Sanders, but he has RB instincts that GA3 lacks.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

I don't get people's infatuation with Cam McDaniels. He's slow and should be used only in short yardage situations.

Carlisle and Atkinson are the 2, with the freshmen spelling them and Cam on 3rd and short/4th and short.

I think the infatuation people(such as myself)have with Cam is that he runs exactly the way you want a RB to. He doesn't have nearly the speed or big play ability that GAIII does but his pure RB running style makes up for thos shortcomings. If GAIII would learn to get the ball, get low, and drive with force through the tackles and then break free and let his speed and elusiveness take over you wouldn't hear anybody question him being the #1 back. The problem is that unless he has a huge hole to run through he's not able to hit the second level and leave everyone in the dust. Just my thoughts on him.

 

[Irish Jacky]

The thing about Cam is this: he's not better at one single RB function, but he's better at all the RB functions combined. He's a lot faster than people here are giving him credit for. He cuts better than GA3 and he's a lot harder to knock off his feet. Unless and until the GB and TF prove superior, Cam should get no fewer touches than GA3 or AC going forward.

Like everybody else here, I'm excited about our two freshmen running backs' potential but we can't draw any real conclusions about them from last Saturday. They sure do look the part though.

Frankly, my biggest concern is at ILB. With all the experience there they should have performed much better against Temple. If they don't bring it this Saturday, we're in for a long night.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

I don't get people's infatuation with Cam McDaniels. He's slow and should be used only in short yardage situations.

Carlisle and Atkinson are the 2, with the freshmen spelling them and Cam on 3rd and short/4th and short.

He had more yards and a few long (10+) runs and GAIII didn't look spectacular on a single carry. And he can block better than GAIII and gets tough yards that GAIII can't. And IMO, Kelly was dead wrong for not letting Cam take it into the end zone after he got us down there but Kelly admitted that was a bad call on his part so at least he knows he was wrong. Just because GAIII got a TD, doesn't mean he earned the right to carry the ball in.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

Yes. Did you?

Your post doesn't really extrapolate on what exactly it is you disagree with in my post so I'm having a hard time responding. Perhaps if you added more details we could have a civilized debate.




First off: you're sick of people hating on Cam? All I've seen is non stop Cam love here.


2nd, all those things you described is exactly why he is perfect for short yardage downs. In all other situations though, it should be someone with speed. Cam McDaniels had monsterous holes opened for him in the Temple game by the offensive line, and a faster RB would have been preferable in the open space situations that Cam found himself in.

I think maybe because you saw Cam have 25+ yard runs you think that was his doing, rather than the offensive line. I don't give credit to the RB for running through a hole that a truck could be driven through. I give that credit to the offensive line. He had some very nice holes opened up for him on Saturday that could have been every better plays if a faster runner had been in.

I agree with your points about his low pad level and hitting the hole hard, he does that well.

btw, no need for the insults.

So let me get this straight. Cam only got 25+ yard gains because the OL opened up holes big enough for a Mack truck to drive through but GAIII couldn't even get a 10-15 yard carry? What, did the OL not like him as much and didn't want to open up holes for him, too? So by your definition, a better back would be able to run through bodies and open the holes himself? I guess you just proved that GAIII (or anyone on the roster except maybe Bryant) isn't any better than Cam. I will say this, Cam sure made the most of those holes and got us the yards needed for that 4th TD even though he didn't get to run it in himself (a bad call by Kelly/Martin IMO).

 

[woolybug25]

Yes. Did you?

Your post doesn't really extrapolate on what exactly it is you disagree with in my post so I'm having a hard time responding. Perhaps if you added more details we could have a civilized debate.

Four times. I watched it four times, will probably watch it again tonight.

Wanna know what I saw? I saw Cam being used in longer downs. I saw him converting them. I saw him doing it against the same lineups that were stuffing GA3 over and over. I saw him get the edge on the same players that GA3 didn't. I saw him use his football instincts and hard running style to get into the open field. Would it been great if he had GA3's speed at that point? Sure... but GA3 has yet to prove that he can get to that level.

So sorry, but i'll take Cam's big chunk plays over GA3 getting pounded at the line all day. Being a 3 down back doesn't mean that you are the fastest guy on the team, it means that you are the most reliable big chunk back. Right now, that guy isn't GA3.

Do you have any other points other that "Cam isn't fast"?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Slight change of topic: When we say someone is our #1 RB, what does that mean? That he gets the most reps, or that he's the most important back on the team?

Because I'm torn as to who I would put at #1 heading into the Michigan game. Carlisle is our most dangerous back, and should arguably get the most reps, but he's small and can't really run between the tackles. McDaniel is easily our most complete back, and if I could only bring one RB to Ann Arbor, it'd be him.

So maybe I'll fudge it and just call McDaniel and Carlisle 1(A) and 1(B). Regardless, GAIII is still just a change of pace back, and on his current trajectory, will likely get passed by one or both of the freshman RBs before the season is over.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

i'm not sure there was an opportunity for any of them to have hung themselves. but, i do think style of play and other character traits are beginning to be visible.

it's really the things we will not see, as public in practice, that may provide even more answers.

depth chart for UM game has amir or ga3 still. i think its a steady dose of amir and cam with a slowly declining number of touches for ga3. not sure this game will present "garbage time" for the freshmen. so, if they get in, at all--that will present an even more dividing of touches.

GB's first run was awesome. hit the hole. took a crowd. bad decision by hendrix cut his drive short.

Folston looked as though he wants to bounce to the outside a bit too though. however, he has a body type to go up the middle.

its interesting. and as i said earlier, when does this "good problem to have" become a having a bad problem?

 

[Old Man Mike]

I have been a Cam McDaniel applauder since I saw his high school highlights tape [one of the best two I've watched] and then asked my Houstonite brother about him [he gave RAVE reviews].

BUT... I too believe that no matter what we all think that we [differently] know, we have just this one 2013 game. This RB story is still to be told. Any of the five guys could end the season as the number 1 back. I believe that Coach is nearly as much in the dark about that final result as we are. The least we can do is not be brainlessly prejudiced against any one of them.

Since I am a Cam fan, statements questioning his hands, when he made the most spectacular one-handed jock catch during the Spring, AND Kelly has designated him as one of the kick-off fielders, are particularly clueless and can only be made out of prejudice of wanting a different RB, so they emotionally are dissing Cam. Statements praising one guy for a great run vs Temple [ex. Amir] but refusing to credit another because "it was only Temple".... sheesh! How do some people exist in such a mind?

All our guys are "good" and probably 80-90 D1 programs would snap them up in a blink of an eye. Let's please just admit that at least. This horserace will be decided the same way that Theo beat out Cierre last year: Kelly will insist on a back who can not only run the ball [getting everything out of a play that our OLine provides without fumbling], but also be a threat to catch it and run, AND flawlessly read the blitz and throw his body at the blitzer selflessly. Theo beat Cierre soundly on receiving, equal or slightly better on taking what was there running, and caught up with him on reading blitzes and acting on that.

Who is going to:
A). Get everything the OLine provides without fumbling;
B). Run routes properly and catch the ball competently;
C). See the blitz packages and effectively block them?

Rate the five guys on this. The subtleties inherent here are what's holding back the frosh superstuds. Cam has proven that he can grade out very well on all three. Amir MIGHT be able to if he can block the rusher. ... and has George yet shown that he really does any of the three at a high level yet? Maybe so. Coach can't be convinced yet.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

I have been a Cam McDaniel applauder since I saw his high school highlights tape [one of the best two I've watched] and then asked my Houstonite brother about him [he gave RAVE reviews].

BUT... I too believe that no matter what we all think that we [differently] know, we have just this one 2013 game. This RB story is still to be told. Any of the five guys could end the season as the number 1 back. I believe that Coach is nearly as much in the dark about that final result as we are. The least we can do is not be brainlessly prejudiced against any one of them.

Since I am a Cam fan, statements questioning his hands, when he made the most spectacular one-handed jock catch during the Spring, AND Kelly has designated him as one of the kick-off fielders, are particularly clueless and can only be made out of prejudice of wanting a different RB, so they emotionally are dissing Cam. Statements praising one guy for a great run vs Temple [ex. Amir] but refusing to credit another because "it was only Temple".... sheesh! How do some people exist in such a mind?

All our guys are "good" and probably 80-90 D1 programs would snap them up in a blink of an eye. Let's please just admit that at least. This horserace will be decided the same way that Theo beat out Cierre last year: Kelly will insist on a back who can not only run the ball [getting everything out of a play that our OLine provides without fumbling], but also be a threat to catch it and run, AND flawlessly read the blitz and throw his body at the blitzer selflessly. Theo beat Cierre soundly on receiving, equal or slightly better on taking what was there running, and caught up with him on reading blitzes and acting on that.

Who is going to:
A). Get everything the OLine provides without fumbling;
B). Run routes properly and catch the ball competently;
C). See the blitz packages and effectively block them?

Rate the five guys on this. The subtleties inherent here are what's holding back the frosh superstuds. Cam has proven that he can grade out very well on all three. Amir MIGHT be able to if he can block the rusher. ... and has George yet shown that he really does any of the three at a high level yet? Maybe so. Coach can't be convinced yet.

yup. wish i could rep you some more. i said all of this in another post. and i really think blitz pick up is the main concern.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

I have been a Cam McDaniel applauder since I saw his high school highlights tape [one of the best two I've watched] and then asked my Houstonite brother about him [he gave RAVE reviews].

BUT... I too believe that no matter what we all think that we [differently] know, we have just this one 2013 game. This RB story is still to be told. Any of the five guys could end the season as the number 1 back. I believe that Coach is nearly as much in the dark about that final result as we are. The least we can do is not be brainlessly prejudiced against any one of them.

Since I am a Cam fan, statements questioning his hands, when he made the most spectacular one-handed jock catch during the Spring, AND Kelly has designated him as one of the kick-off fielders, are particularly clueless and can only be made out of prejudice of wanting a different RB, so they emotionally are dissing Cam. Statements praising one guy for a great run vs Temple [ex. Amir] but refusing to credit another because "it was only Temple".... sheesh! How do some people exist in such a mind?

All our guys are "good" and probably 80-90 D1 programs would snap them up in a blink of an eye. Let's please just admit that at least. This horserace will be decided the same way that Theo beat out Cierre last year: Kelly will insist on a back who can not only run the ball [getting everything out of a play that our OLine provides without fumbling], but also be a threat to catch it and run, AND flawlessly read the blitz and throw his body at the blitzer selflessly. Theo beat Cierre soundly on receiving, equal or slightly better on taking what was there running, and caught up with him on reading blitzes and acting on that.

Who is going to:
A). Get everything the OLine provides without fumbling;
B). Run routes properly and catch the ball competently;
C). See the blitz packages and effectively block them?

Rate the five guys on this. The subtleties inherent here are what's holding back the frosh superstuds. Cam has proven that he can grade out very well on all three. Amir MIGHT be able to if he can block the rusher. ... and has George yet shown that he really does any of the three at a high level yet? Maybe so. Coach can't be convinced yet.

If I had to rate them on all of those things after just 1 game, I gotta go with Cam. He does get everything the OL gives him and I haven't seen a fumble, yet. He runs the right routes and gets a lot of yards doing it. And as far as I can tell, he can Pass block and picks up blitzes with no trouble. I think the other guys do at least 1-2 of those things but not all 3. Amir does 1 and 2 but haven't seen him pass block that I recall (maybe he did and I missed it) and he is so small that large DE and LB will eat him alive. GAIII, not sure he does any of them, maybe blocks well with his size, but he is explosive and definitely a homerun threat. I like the guy and think he will bust one for 50+ yards at least once this season. The jury is still out on the frosh and Mahone.

 

[kmoose]

I think what we are going to see, as the year progresses, is that Atkinson and Carlisle will be getting the most carries, in the 1st and 4th quarters. If we want to "start fast", like Kelly preaches, then it makes sense to have guys that can hit home runs out there, to start with. If we get up, on the scoreboard, after the 1st, then I think you will see heavy doses of McDaniel, in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, chewing up clock and pounding linebackers and DBs. Then in the 4th quarter, after you have presumably beat the defense up by pounding the ball, then you can bring your home run hitters back in, and try to get them out in space where they can abuse the already sore and demoralized 2nd and 3rd level defenders. You can also hope to hit a home run to really put that last nail in your opponent's coffin.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

And IMO, Kelly was dead wrong for not letting Cam take it into the end zone after he got us down there but Kelly admitted that was a bad call on his part so at least he knows he was wrong. Just because GAIII got a TD, doesn't mean he earned the right to carry the ball in.

I don't care who the running back is, so long as we win.
I'm not trying to start an argument, but I'm really confused as to why you feel GA3 didn't earn that touchdown?

To refresh the exact drive:
7 yard pass to TJ
14 yard run GA3
15 yard penalty late hit out of bounds
4 yard run Amir
2 yard run Cam
33 yard pass to Brown
16 yard run Cam
2 yard td GA3

Unless you're strictly talking about the 18 yard line to the 2, how the heck did Cam get us down there? GA3 had almost as many rushing yards and drew the big penalty that kick started the drive. If anything, Tommy got us down there aided by a great catch from Brown. It was a rotation and judging by their first carries, GA3 deserved the next one.

 

[mgriff]

I personally think Cam is our best back right now. He plays the position the best right now.

 

[Junkhead]

I personally think Cam is our best back right now. He plays the position the best right now.

If Cam had been a 5-star, everyone would love him. Maybe he is over-achieving, but I would have no problem accepting him as #1. Kid's a baller. I would rank them right now as (with limited carries this year)...

#1 Cam McDaniel
#2 Amir Carlisle (too small and injury prone to be full time 3 down back)
#3 Bryant/Folston (too few carries to judge)
#4 Atkinson He has been around awhile, fast as hell, just doesn't have typical RB instincts or quickness. He should be a KR or WR.

 

[koonja]

I don't think any of our RBs outside of Amir have shown they're a receiving threat. I saw him run two routes and didn't need to see a 3rd to know he's a true dual threat. Cams the best runner, but I think the freshman will have something to say about that as time passes.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

I don't care who the running back is, so long as we win.
I'm not trying to start an argument, but I'm really confused as to why you feel GA3 didn't earn that touchdown?

To refresh the exact drive:
7 yard pass to TJ
14 yard run GA3
15 yard penalty late hit out of bounds
4 yard run Amir
2 yard run Cam
33 yard pass to Brown
16 yard run Cam
2 yard td GA3

Unless you're strictly talking about the 18 yard line to the 2, how the heck did Cam get us down there? GA3 had almost as many rushing yards and drew the big penalty that kick started the drive. If anything, Tommy got us down there aided by a great catch from Brown. It was a rotation and judging by their first carries, GA3 deserved the next one.

Cam got the final yards to get us in scoring position. Though GAIII's run was good and helped, I think the difference is the location at the time of the respective runs. Kelly even said he made a mistake not letting Cam take it in. A lot of people don't have much faith in Cam but he had a much better day than GAIII and yet GAIII has TD on his stat sheet and Cam doesn't.

 

[woolybug25]

"Drew" the penalty? What exactly did GA3 do to lure that Temple player into hitting him out of bounds? Lol

 

[BMT]

wait till GAIII takes one to the house this weekend and you may feel differently.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

Cam's a gamer. He's the type of back I would want as a coach. Team first mentality tries to make the most of his given opportunities. He's the type of back where when you give him some carries at the end of they year he has a 5.3 YPC and you're trying to figure out how he got there.

 

[woolybug25]

Cam's a gamer. He's the type of back I would want as a coach. Team first mentality tries to make the most of his given opportunities. He's the type of back where when you give him some carries at the end of they year he has a 5.3 YPC and you're trying to figure out how he got there.

The type of player you would want to coach would be a guy that had good stats, but when you think back on his impact over the year, you don't know how he did it?

I have no idea why that would be a redeaming quality.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

The type of player you would want to coach would be a guy that had good stats, but when you think back on his impact over the year, you don't know how he did it?

I have no idea why that would be a redeaming quality.

i think he's referring to as a fan base you look at the stat line and go, huh, that does make sense, but i took it for granted.

now, im not sure you "want" to coach the guy with good stats. i think you want to coach TO good stats. for instance--there is only some scheme advantage to Ga3's YPC for last season. a lot of it is that homerun ability of god given talent. as of right now, that guy needs more coaching to WANT to use that talent. the schemes are there, GA3, is not.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

The type of player you would want to coach would be a guy that had good stats, but when you think back on his impact over the year, you don't know how he did it?

I have no idea why that would be a redeaming quality.

He's a steady back. The kind that analysts say always falls forward. You'll get your 3 or 4 yards and then he'll break off 1 or 2 a game for 15 plus and about carry number 17 he'll be right around 100.
Maybe it's being a Steelers fan and seeing Bettis for a lot of years, but I really like those kinds of backs who extend drives and keep the defense resting on the sidelines who shorten games.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

wait till GAIII takes one to the house this weekend and you may feel differently.

And I am sure he will but I would much rather have a consistent back that gets 3-4 yards every carry than the one who can't run up the middle but occasionally (like maybe 2 in 1 season) breaks a long one to the house. And so far, the only teams he has been able to do that against are Navy and Miami. If he can do it against a Michigan or Oklahoma then I will give him major props. Same goes for Cam, though. So far, he is looking to be the most complete back but this weekend will give us more insight on whether he can do it against better defenses. But I am a big Cam fan right now and have been for awhile. I have family in that part of TX and they say that kid was one of the best running backs to come out of that school.

 

[Bluto]

What is everyone pissing and moaning about? All three of the veteran backs looked good (yes even GAIII) and the freshmen got some good experience. I do however, think one of Folston or Bryant could start by years end.

 

[stlnd01]

Same goes for Cam, though. So far, he is looking to be the most complete back but this weekend will give us more insight on whether he can do it against better defenses.

That's the thing with Cam, right? He's productive, but so far it's mostly been against lesser defenses. That's all he's played against. Can he get those 3-4 yards per carry against the better teams? Only one way to find out, I suppose.

 

[NDdomer2]

cam may be our best all around back currently but if im saying that at end of this year we are playing champs sports bowl or similar

 

[woolybug25]

He's a steady back. The kind that analysts say always falls forward. You'll get your 3 or 4 yards and then he'll break off 1 or 2 a game for 15 plus and about carry number 17 he'll be right around 100.
Maybe it's being a Steelers fan and seeing Bettis for a lot of years, but I really like those kinds of backs who extend drives and keep the defense resting on the sidelines who shorten games.

We are talking about GA3??? He is the last back on our roster that I would characterize as a back that "falls forward" (he is constantly bashed for his upright running style) and is also no where near Bettis in measurables or style of play.

Not sure where you are going with that one either.

 

[PANDFAN]

We are talking about GA3??? He is the last back on our roster that I would characterize as a back that "falls forward" (he is constantly bashed for his upright running style) and is also no where near Bettis in measurables or style of play.

Not sure where you are going with that one either.

he was talking about cam

 

[Domina Nostra]

GAIII is the most productive back I have ever seen with such major flaws in his technique (probably based on the fact that he is 220 lbs and fast as heck once he gets rolling). Maybe that's what the coaches like about him.

Some fast guys--like George--don't seem to understand that they are only faster than everyone else when they are going full speed. Someone should show him tape of the fleet-footed Mr. Robinson of Michigan. He was often captured and destroyed by a certain MLB who ran a conspicuous 4.7 40yd but knew where to be. how much more so for you, George!

So my message to GAIII: Run, George! Run! A 220 lb. guy who hits a hole full speed is going to take some momentum forward. You can do it!