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Rhode Irish

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Honestly I dont have a problem with Yankee fans talking smack to Sox fans when they beat us, or vice versa. That's normal. I lived with 4 Yankee fans in law school. In undergrad we had one Yankee fan in our house and 5 Sox fans. I've seen both sides and the rivalry is fun.

What I don't get is (1) Yankee fans reveling in our misfortune when it has nothing to due with them, and (2) other fans - like a Cleveland fan or something - hating the Red Sox. That makes no sense to me. When people hate the Pats I get it. The Pats are great villains. There is nothing villainous about the Sox, though.
 

nd1

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the reason all these fans hate the yanks and the sox is 1) becaue they win and both spend alot of money for players that the team they route for can not spend or the owner will not spend. 2) like I said before it is the hype that both team gets and they get put on tv more then any othe two teams in the game. The phillies are starting to get the same hype and everything now that the yanks and sox have been getting for a long time.


I respect the sox as a baseball team because they have a great team and win alot of games as do the phils and yanks. I was really surprised that they lost last night and I figure the yanks would beat tampa and the sox would win and I said that in one of these baseball threads. As far as reveling in the sox defeat if it was the other way around the same thing would be going on and like I said it's not all fans but a few of them. Red sox fans are dealing with what yankees fans dealt with when they missed the playoffs. All you heard was they spent that much money and can not make the playoffs. It comes with winning on a regular basis that other fans of teams don't like it or they wish the team they route for was doing it every year.
 

ACamp1900

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hating the Red Sox. That makes no sense to me. When people hate the Pats I get it. The Pats are great villains. There is nothing villainous about the Sox, though.

About the team sure, the fan base is one of the very worst in sports...

there is your reason.
 

Rhode Irish

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About the team sure, the fan base is one of the very worst in sports...

there is your reason.

No offense, but that is an exceedingly ignorant, almost trollish, thing to say. I'm sorry, but nobody with a clue would agree with you. There are definitely annoying, idiotic and tedious elements of the fan base (e.g. the whole card carrying "Red Sox Nation" and "pink hat" elements), but that is a small, if vocal minority. Every team, especially those teams with huge numbers of fans, will have that element. Including the Yankees. On the whole, the Sox and the Yanks probably have the most knowledgeable fans, along with maybe STL.
 

ACamp1900

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No offense, but that is an exceedingly ignorant, almost trollish, thing to say. I'm sorry, but nobody with a clue would agree with you. There are definitely annoying, idiotic and tedious elements of the fan base (e.g. the whole card carrying "Red Sox Nation" and "pink hat" elements), but that is a small, if vocal minority. Every team, especially those teams with huge numbers of fans, will have that element. Including the Yankees. On the whole, the Sox and the Yanks probably have the most knowledgeable fans, along with maybe STL.

So to state my opinion is ignorant and trollish before you even know why the statement was made... yep, you are a fan.

I will say that my experience is local to LA, maybe that helps... HUGE amount of "Sawx" fans out here unforutately... and why a bunch of people from Denver, Detriot, Boston, locals... anywhere,... think they have to talk with that fake *** accent just b/c they are now part of 'the nation' is beyond me... whatever


I would honestly say the idiots are the majority of your fan base out here per my experience, sorry, if you disagree, good for you... For the record there are just as many Yanks fans... never ONE issue with them that compares to Sox fans... I have no dog in this fight, just stating my experience and why I was celebrating like the Angels won the pennant last night... if I were to state the ten worst moments of fandom I have expereinced personally, one would be what I saw Ducks fans do to Kings fans at a 2002 pre season game at the Pond... the other nine, without any quesiton, would be any of the endless list of crap Sox fans do on the regular to other fan bases... Ohio State fans of baseball... the average boston fan seems to go to games with the main intent of runing the experience for everyone else... and sorry if any base has even a large enough minority of people like that... I'm rooting against that team.

I would also add that this attitude that "suddenly because I am wearing a Boston hat means I know more about baseball than anyone does" crap is just that...

Angels fans are far too fair weather... I'm not gonna sit here and state it's some small faction that just happened to jump on in a lame defensive reaction... I accept the truth and state the fact that I'm just not a part of the majority... anyway
 
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Mr. Larson

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Yes. The Red Sox fight the good fight. Unless you're a Yankee fan, you shouldn't hate the Red Sox. And even if you are a Yankee fan, deep inside you have to know you're on the wrong side of good vs. evil.[/QUOTE]

Maybe I'm missing something, but can you explain what makes the Yankees so inherently evil? You also touched on not being able to comprehend how people could take so much joy in the "good guy" losing.

No one on Murderers Row actually killed anyone...
 

Ironman8

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I agree with everything ACamp just wrote. I hate to say it, but in my experience the vocal, pink hat, Sawx and Red Sox Nation pretenders have become the majority in the places I have seen. The intelligent, reasonable, true fans are seemingly dwindling in number, unfortunately.
 

ACamp1900

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I agree with everything ACamp just wrote. I hate to say it, but in my experience the vocal, pink hat, Sawx and Red Sox Nation pretenders have become the majority in the places I have seen. The intelligent, reasonable, true fans are seemingly dwindling in number, unfortunately.

and, as I stated I can relate to this being a life long Angel fan whose parents named me after a baseball player and had their honeymoon in Anahiem just so they could go to three straight Angel games... LONG before the Angels EVER made the playoffs...

my family is legit...

but the fan base as a whole is not... it sucks for us, and it sucks for the good Sox fans... few of them as there may be...

;)
 

ACamp1900

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btw Ironman, when'd you become a mod??? congrats.
 

BGIF

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and, as I stated I can relate to this being a life long Angel fan whose parents named me after a baseball player and had their honeymoon in Anahiem just so they could go to three straight Angel games... LONG before the Angels EVER made the playoffs...

my family is legit...

but the fan base as a whole is not... it sucks for us, and it sucks for the good Sox fans... few of them as there may be...

;)

Why didn't your parents honeymoon in a major league city?
 

BGIF

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I agree with everything ACamp just wrote. I hate to say it, but in my experience the vocal, pink hat, Sawx and Red Sox Nation pretenders have become the majority in the places I have seen. The intelligent, reasonable, true fans are seemingly dwindling in number, unfortunately.

This from a guy who told me I was crazy preseason for thinking the Rays would contend for the playoffs.

At least you're right about the Sox fans.
 

Ironman8

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This from a guy who told me I was crazy preseason for thinking the Rays would contend for the playoffs.

At least you're right about the Sox fans.

Mea culpa. Could not envision a Red Sox implosion of unprecedented proportions. I owe you an apology.

I apologize.

I also apologize in advance for the pounding the Ironmen will put on the Crusaders this weekend. I'm recommending to all my Crusader friends to simply pretend like we are taking a year off from our rivalry, for their own good of course.
 

irishog77

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I'm a lifelong Yankees fan and I don't mean to pour salt on any wounds here, but most Yankee fans hate being lumped together in any way with Red Sox fans. Granted, now that the Red Sox have won 2 world series in recent years, there is a lot more more ammo to support their team...but a lot of the Yankee/Red Sox rivalry was imposed on the entire sports-world by ESPN.
Sure there have been some great teams and games between the 2 over the past decades, but generally, Yankee fans never felt the same way about the Red Sox as Red Sox fans felt about the Yankees. My math may be a little off here, but the Yankees won about 26 world series in the time the Sox won 1. Since the playoffs expanded in the mid 90's (and also when the Yankees became perennial contenders again), Yankee fans usually felt the Indians, Mariners, Rangers, A's, and/or Angels posed a bigger risk than the Sox. But hey, Boston did beat the Yankees in the ALCS several years ago. They've now won 2 titles recently and certainly seem to be a threat to the Yankees every year for the foreseeable future. So now I do consider them a rival. And I'll be honest, I now do take pleasure in seeing the team lose and their fans deal with the meltdown.

To back up ACamp a little, it's primarily been the fans of the Red Sox that have turned me sour on them as a whole. Whether I've been in TX, AR, CA, TN, or anywhere else in the U.S.; obnoxious, fair-weather, instigator fans usually don't do it for me. I remember being at a Monday night football game in Nashville between the Titans and Patriots the year after the Pats won their first super bowl. The Titans dominated the game and knocked the Patriots out of playoff contention. The NE fans at the game walked around like a bunch of billy-bad@sses pretending they were some football dynasty that had finally gotten their chance to sit at the table with the Bears, Packers, Cowboys, and Steelers as historic heavyweights of the NFL. Newsflash-- before 2003...nobody, on any national level, really cared about your franchise! I hate to say it, but basically between 1919 and 2004, nobody outside of New England really cared about the Red Sox either! But hey- both teams are good now and have recent championships to rest on. Good for you guys. But we don't need the fans and ESPN constantly telling us how amazing you are and what incredible, rich traditions your teams have.
 

Rhode Irish

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So to state my opinion is ignorant and trollish before you even know why the statement was made... yep, you are a fan.

I will say that my experience is local to LA, maybe that helps... HUGE amount of "Sawx" fans out here unforutately... and why a bunch of people from Denver, Detriot, Boston, locals... anywhere,... think they have to talk with that fake *** accent just b/c they are now part of 'the nation' is beyond me... whatever


I would honestly say the idiots are the majority of your fan base out here per my experience, sorry, if you disagree, good for you... For the record there are just as many Yanks fans... never ONE issue with them that compares to Sox fans... I have no dog in this fight, just stating my experience and why I was celebrating like the Angels won the pennant last night... if I were to state the ten worst moments of fandom I have expereinced personally, one would be what I saw Ducks fans do to Kings fans at a 2002 pre season game at the Pond... the other nine, without any quesiton, would be any of the endless list of crap Sox fans do on the regular to other fan bases... Ohio State fans of baseball... the average boston fan seems to go to games with the main intent of runing the experience for everyone else... and sorry if any base has even a large enough minority of people like that... I'm rooting against that team.

I would also add that this attitude that "suddenly because I am wearing a Boston hat means I know more about baseball than anyone does" crap is just that...

Angels fans are far too fair weather... I'm not gonna sit here and state it's some small faction that just happened to jump on in a lame defensive reaction... I accept the truth and state the fact that I'm just not a part of the majority... anyway

First, I just want to say that I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you. I'm just trying to defend a group of people that I identify with and feel you are criticizing unfairly.

Now, in terms of my saying that your opinion was ignorant without knowing why you said it: you had a chance to explain your opinion when you stated it, but you didn't. Instead, you chose to make a conclusory statement which I strongly disagree with. You didn't explain your criteria for adjudging the "the worst fans in sports," but it is my opinion that regardless of the criteria it is impossible to come to the conclusion you presented if you're being fair and objective. Therefore, ignorant and trollish.

Now, in terms of the potential criteria, I would propose the following (and help me if I'm missing something): hooliganism, fair weatherness, lack of knowledge, lack of appreciation/respect for other teams or the sport itself. Based on my experience, I wouldn't put Red Sox fans in the bottom half of any of those categories among American sports fan bases.

You alluded to some issues you apparently had with Red Sox fans (presumably in LA). I can't speak for LA Sox fans because I've never met one, but judging a fan base on the behavior of some fans in some disconnected outpost 3000 miles way from the heart of the fan base seems unfair. How big a portion of Sox fans are in LA? Maybe .03%? I have a ton of friends from out of town who are fans of other teams who have gone to games at Fenway, and I've never heard of one of them getting bothered in any way, aside from maybe some good-natured ribbing if they wear NY gear to a Sox/Yanks game. To be fair, during my time in NY, I have gone to about 25 games at Yankee stadium, and I've never had an issue there. Now compare that to stuff that has happened elsewhere, like in your sports utopia where some Dodgers fans beat a Giants fan nearly to death, and I have a hard time understanding how Sox fans are the worst in sports.

As I've said, there are certainly some elements of Red Sox fans that aggravate even other sensible Sox fans. I'll be the first to admit that. In my experience, though, having grown up as a season ticket holder, you're talking about a small vocal minority - same as any fan base in my opinion. I think this is a case of perception vs. reality for you.

Notice I am not trying to troll here with the "you're just jealous" line of defense. Success in sports ebbs and flows and having your team experience a run of success says absolutely nothing about a fan base. I'm sorry you had the experiences you claim to have had, but as someone who has grew up with that fan base and has since moved around and experienced many others, I honestly feel that your experience is an outlier and not at all typical. The list of fan bases I consider worse than Boston's is quite literally endless, but I'd start with Raider and Steeler fans, and include every NFL, MLB and NBA fan base that doesn't sell out games.
 
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Rhode Irish

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Also, one thing we can agree on is the terrible, bastardized New England accent. People there don't actuly talk with such an exaggerated accent, but I love busting my friends chops about the accents they do have whenever we get together.
 

autry_denson

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I'm a lifelong Yankees fan and I don't mean to pour salt on any wounds here, but most Yankee fans hate being lumped together in any way with Red Sox fans.

This is the thing that will annoy me the most about this year's collapse by the Sox - dealing with insecure, mean-spirited Yankees fans.

Yankee fans who have, over time, built their identity around cheering for a team that has an enormous built-in advantage over the rest of the league and has, as a consequence, won consistently. Then it all ended in 2004, when they completed what is still the greatest choke of all time over 4 consecutive games. All of the sudden the confidence became complete insecurity, Yankee fans started pointing out how many championships they'd won instead of acknowledging that they just carried out the greatest choke of all time while witnessing the greatest comeback of all time, and the claims that "we never cared" about the Red Sox started floating around as the most transparent defense mechanism imaginable.

Buddy, we know that you love seeing the Red Sox lose, and we know that you feel better by trying to rub salt in our wounds. We know, also, that this was a horrific, historic, disastrous collapse by our team. It sickens all of us. You're not going to make us feel worse by saying that the Red Sox don't matter. You're also never going to regain your pre-2004 confidence and arrogance by insulting Sox fans. If you win 40 titles, you're never going to be able to make up for what happened - and if we collapse consistently for the next ten years, we'll still have those four days in October of '04.

I feel terrible today - but I've still got those DVDs reminding me of the greatest sports event of my lifetime.
 

Ironman8

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This is the thing that will annoy me the most about this year's collapse by the Sox - dealing with insecure, mean-spirited Yankees fans.

Yankee fans who have, over time, built their identity around cheering for a team that has an enormous built-in advantage over the rest of the league and has, as a consequence, won consistently. Then it all ended in 2004, when they completed what is still the greatest choke of all time over 4 consecutive games. All of the sudden the confidence became complete insecurity, Yankee fans started pointing out how many championships they'd won instead of acknowledging that they just carried out the greatest choke of all time while witnessing the greatest comeback of all time, and the claims that "we never cared" about the Red Sox started floating around as the most transparent defense mechanism imaginable.

Buddy, we know that you love seeing the Red Sox lose, and we know that you feel better by trying to rub salt in our wounds. We know, also, that this was a horrific, historic, disastrous collapse by our team. It sickens all of us. You're not going to make us feel worse by saying that the Red Sox don't matter. You're also never going to regain your pre-2004 confidence and arrogance by insulting Sox fans. If you win 40 titles, you're never going to be able to make up for what happened - and if we collapse consistently for the next ten years, we'll still have those four days in October of '04.

I feel terrible today - but I've still got those DVDs reminding me of the greatest sports event of my lifetime.

I'll see your collapse and raise you a David Tyree catch.:footballh

Lol. This is what is so fun about the rivalry between the Yankees and Red Sox - the fact that it has spread to a genuine rivalry between cities and regions involving all teams. Hell, I will even root for the Jets against the Pats now, for reasons I can not fully articulate. But I think as long as it stays civil and good-natured, it is what makes sports so fun to talk about and debate. Makes everything more interesting IMO.
 
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BGIF

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Mea culpa. Could not envision a Red Sox implosion of unprecedented proportions. I owe you an apology.

I apologize.

I also apologize in advance for the pounding the Ironmen will put on the Crusaders this weekend. I'm recommending to all my Crusader friends to simply pretend like we are taking a year off from our rivalry, for their own good of course.

Unlike some Sox fan(s) I won't disavow my team regardless the outcome.

Back in the last millenium, BC was undefeated and ranked in the Bergen Co. Top 5. They were to play River Dell under Matty Certosimo. A battle of the two Oradell schools. The Bergen Record noted that of the Top 10 only BC would face any kind of competition but it would be over in the first half. BC was a 3 TD favorite. The Record was right, the game was over early. BC scored in the 4th Q to close the gap to 45-7. My older sister who was a Golden Hawk, reminds me every fall.


I have heard rumors that DBTS has a payroll that rivals Miami or the Sox but I don't put credence in those kind of things.

I've also heard that the Crusaders are working on an appropriate cheer for the game. Something along the lines of, "More please, sir".
 

autry_denson

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I'll see your collapse and raise you a David Tyree catch. :footballh

Dammit - when I posted earlier today I asked, pleaded, that everyone take it easy on the Bostonians JUST FOR THE DAY! Now I'm writing anti-Yankee rants while being forced to relive David Tyree...

all we need is a Kobe fan to remind us of the 2010 finals and a Colts fan to say that Manning's better than Brady and the day will be complete.
 

Ironman8

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Unlike some Sox fan(s) I won't disavow my team regardless the outcome.

Back in the last millenium, BC was undefeated and ranked in the Bergen Co. Top 5. They were to play River Dell under Matty Certosimo. A battle of the two Oradell schools. The Bergen Record noted that of the Top 10 only BC would face any kind of competition but it would be over in the first half. BC was a 3 TD favorite. The Record was right, the game was over early. BC scored in the 4th Q to close the gap to 45-7. My older sister who was a Golden Hawk, reminds me every fall.


I have heard rumors that DBTS has a payroll that rivals Miami or the Sox but I don't put credence in those kind of things.

I've also heard that the Crusaders are working on an appropriate cheer for the game. Something along the lines of, "More please, sir".

Oh I am fully aware of BC's past dominance. My cousins are alumni of the BC football program, one of whom went on to study at ND undergrad. The dominance periods will likely be cyclical, so I will properly enjoy our time while we have it lol.
 

irishog77

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This is the thing that will annoy me the most about this year's collapse by the Sox - dealing with insecure, mean-spirited Yankees fans.

Yankee fans who have, over time, built their identity around cheering for a team that has an enormous built-in advantage over the rest of the league and has, as a consequence, won consistently. Then it all ended in 2004, when they completed what is still the greatest choke of all time over 4 consecutive games. All of the sudden the confidence became complete insecurity, Yankee fans started pointing out how many championships they'd won instead of acknowledging that they just carried out the greatest choke of all time while witnessing the greatest comeback of all time, and the claims that "we never cared" about the Red Sox started floating around as the most transparent defense mechanism imaginable.

Buddy, we know that you love seeing the Red Sox lose, and we know that you feel better by trying to rub salt in our wounds. We know, also, that this was a horrific, historic, disastrous collapse by our team. It sickens all of us. You're not going to make us feel worse by saying that the Red Sox don't matter. You're also never going to regain your pre-2004 confidence and arrogance by insulting Sox fans. If you win 40 titles, you're never going to be able to make up for what happened - and if we collapse consistently for the next ten years, we'll still have those four days in October of '04.

I feel terrible today - but I've still got those DVDs reminding me of the greatest sports event of my lifetime.

This IS exactly why Yankee fans don't care all that much about Red Sox fans-- you'll rest your entire life on the laurels of ONE season. Yankee fans aren't ever content-- we want a title each and every year...and it really makes no difference what teams we beat to claim it. Each year that doesn't result in a title is a disappointment. But cheers to you, Red Sox nation-- you'll always have 2004.

2004? Really? And in a few years before you know it, you'll sound like crazed ND fans claiming the '88 title is still meaningful to kids playing the game today. As an ND fan, I think it would pretty pathetic, if in 2017, we're trying to rally behind the battle cry of, "Hey USC, remember when we beat you...in 2010?!??!!"
 

BGIF

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Oh I am fully aware of BC's past dominance. My cousins are alumni of the BC football program, one of whom went on to study at ND undergrad. The dominance periods will likely be cyclical, so I will properly enjoy our time while we have it lol.

I believe you misread my post about collapses and fan fidelity. The 3 TD favored, undefeated Crusaders lost to RDHS by almost 6 TDs. Regardless, they were still my team.

And no, I'm not anticipating an upset of that proportion, or any proportion.
 

Ironman8

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I believe you misread my post about collapses and fan fidelity. The 3 TD favored, undefeated Crusaders lost to RDHS by almost 6 TDs. Regardless, they were still my team.

And no, I'm not anticipating an upset of that proportion, or any proportion.

Ha I knew what you meant, I was referencing the fact that the line represented their dominance during that time, which obviously sets the stage for an upset. There are parellels to be seen, for sure. I'm going to just have to put my faith in Shumate, Wright, Carroo, Hamilton, Strizack and Peppers, and see how that goes.
 

autry_denson

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But cheers to you, Red Sox nation-- you'll always have 2004.

Well put. It was the absolute pinnacle of what it means to be a sports fan, nothing else could even approach it. Decades from now, I'll be talking about it with my kids. I know what it feels like to win multiple titles, it's not even close to what it felt like in 2004.

It also changed Yankees fans forever - all of their accumulated feelings of superiority washed away in 4 games. I think most Yankees fans understand this deep down.
 

KPENN

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Well put. It was the absolute pinnacle of what it means to be a sports fan, nothing else could even approach it. Decades from now, I'll be talking about it with my kids. I know what it feels like to win multiple titles, it's not even close to what it felt like in 2004.

It also changed Yankees fans forever - all of their accumulated feelings of superiority washed away in 4 games. I think most Yankees fans understand this deep down.

See the thing is myself and all my yankee friends never, ever and I do mean never think about 2004. I actually forget what happened sometimes. But Red Sox fans continuously beet their meat over that series to the point it's quite tiresome. Yankee fans that I know moved on from it and fans of the red sox I know tell us that the past is still important and shouldn't be forgotten.

Mind you these are the same people that when one of us Yankee fans throws out the 27 world championships they say that what happened in the past is completely meaningless.. Hmmm really now???

From all the sawk fans I've met and know(and it's quite a bit) they are generally probably the most insecure fan base. They are like that ex that no matter how many ****** times you had with them, will always point to one greet moment and think they've trumped you big time.
 

autry_denson

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See the thing is myself and all my yankee friends never, ever and I do mean never think about 2004. I actually forget what happened sometimes

that's called repressed memory. it's unhealthy.

but here's a reminder: 30 for 30: Four Days In October - Dave Roberts stealing 2nd - YouTube

(cue the dozens of youtube links to Tyree, Buckner, Crawford, Longoria, etc)

I don't think Sox fans are insecure as much as we are self-aware. We know the team has choked time and time again, we know the Yankees have traditionally been much better, we know other fans around the country don't like either team and are sick of the AL East media bias, we know we also have a big payroll, we know that our team collapsed again this year.

But we also know, and Yankees fans know too, that the events of 2004 wipe away all of the other stuff. For us, that's just the reality. For introspective Yankees fans, I think it's a reality as well - several have admitted so to me when they open up (by the way, to claim you don't remember what happened is fantastic, that's the ultimate comeback - "Wait a sec - there was a series that we were winning 3-0, ended up losing 4 consecutive times for the first time in the history of the sport, two on walk offs, one where the opposing pitcher was pitching with stitches coming loose in his ankle, the last on our home field, and the team we lost to hadn't won a world series since 1918 - really? Doesn't ring a bell...)

Winning 3 super bowls was great, all the C's titles have been fun as hell, and the 07 world series was fantastic. But 2004 was totally different.
 

nd1

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autry, i am really sorry for all the years of heartbrake. From boone to dent and all yankees fans we are really sorry about your team losing again.

It got to be hard to believe that the best team in the american league can blow a 10 game lead in the wild card standings in a month. All the experts said the sox was the best in the american league as the season was starting.

Again from the eastern divison champs ( yanks) we are sorry.
 

Rhode Irish

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autry, i am really sorry for all the years of heartbrake. From boone to dent and all yankees fans we are really sorry about your team losing again.

It got to be hard to believe that the best team in the american league can blow a 10 game lead in the wild card standings in a month. All the experts said the sox was the best in the american league as the season was starting.

Again from the eastern divison champs ( yanks) we are sorry.

This actually did make me feel better. Thanks for reminding me that many Yankee fans are illiterate a-holes.

Also, why do you guys keep bringing up "the media said the Red Sox were the best team in baseball" when talking **** to Sox fans? You are aware that we aren't the media, correct?
 
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