'24 IL DL Justin Scott (Miami [FL] Verbal)

[stlnd01]

He lives in Chicago and goes to a high school that starts with "Saint." A lot of people got their hopes up and a lot of people are going to be disappointed, then misdirect their frustration at the administration, the coaching staff, Justin Scott himself, all of the above.

Wait you're saying it isn't 1964 anymore?

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Wait you're saying it isn't 1964 anymore?

It's not even 2018 anymore.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Where I'm at I don't think any of these 5-star caliber guys... whether it's Dante Moore, Peyton Bowen, Keeley, etc.... end up actually signing with ND unless NIL changes. I don't even necessarily care whether we get verbal commitments. I'm much less interested in recruiting than I used to be because between NIL and the insta-eligibility portal who the hell knows what your team is going to look like year to year.

This is where I'm at as well. I don't think ND will ever pull these guys unless it's a legacy or a special kind of kid who truly just wants ND...and those guys 1) usually aren't five stars, and 2) only come around once every few years (Hamilton, Jaylon, etc.).

I think ND's best "path" is to simply load up on as many four stars as possible and stack the roster with Top 150 players, and then work the transfer portal for a terrific QB. If we develop the latter, great; but if there's a Hartman to be added, I think that's the only truly way ND competes for playoff positioning unless/until NIL changes.

 

[stlnd01]

This is where I'm at as well. I don't think ND will ever pull these guys unless it's a legacy or a special kind of kid who truly just wants ND...and those guys 1) usually aren't five stars, and 2) only come around once every few years (Hamilton, Jaylon, etc.).

I think ND's best "path" is to simply load up on as many four stars as possible and stack the roster with Top 150 players, and then work the transfer portal for a terrific QB. If we develop the latter, great; but if there's a Hartman to be added, I think that's the only truly way ND competes for playoff positioning unless/until NIL changes.

There are more important things - IMO - than developing NFL draft picks. But The Athletic has been running this interesting project ranking college programs on how well they develop 3, 4 and 5-star recruits into draft picks. Maybe no surprise to us, but Notre Dame hasn't done especially well with five stars (3 of 7 over the last 11 years were drafted). But ranks 11th in conversion rate of 4-stars, and 17th with three-stars.

Releasing the 3-star U data with thoughts on every Power 5 team

Where does each Power 5 team rank nationally when it comes to developing three-, four- and five-star recruits into NFL Draft picks?

theathletic.com

Further evidence that loading up on four-stars may be the way. Just gotta get that QB.

 

[SDIrishFan]

This is where I'm at as well. I don't think ND will ever pull these guys unless it's a legacy or a special kind of kid who truly just wants ND...and those guys 1) usually aren't five stars, and 2) only come around once every few years (Hamilton, Jaylon, etc.).

I think ND's best "path" is to simply load up on as many four stars as possible and stack the roster with Top 150 players, and then work the transfer portal for a terrific QB. If we develop the latter, great; but if there's a Hartman to be added, I think that's the only truly way ND competes for playoff positioning unless/until NIL changes.

It's this. We've had competitive teams over the past 10 years, mostly made up of mid four-star players, an every once in a while 5 star or two and some 3-stars that are developed. However, the biggest reason we haven't been competitive in the playoffs is we don't have a difference maker at QB, really haven't since Jimmy.

It also seems like when the offense is good, the defense isn't, and vice versa. It's hard for a school like ND to put together all 3 phases plus have a game changer at QB (as it is for almost every school).

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

The secret is going to be loading up on players who want to stay for the long run, which being able to determine is going to prove very difficult. How do you develop culture and leadership in an era where the players are now moving as free if not more than the coaching carousel? Buchner and Diggs could have filled veteran roles this season at worst, and could have been leaders in all likelihood even if they were not starters.

As soon as a guy is labeled a five star player, Top 100, etc. more likely than not he and his family are going to seek to cash in on that. Justin Scott may likely fall into that category. Anything that seems like a great fit on paper is no longer so, and perhaps vice versa. Notre Dame Football may start to find a different kind of recruit from places we as fans may have never thought to look.

 

[ColinKSU]

Some are saying that Notre Dame may have to consider shopping down a different aisle.

 

[Irishdrunk]

Some are saying that Notre Dame may have to consider shopping down a different aisle.

With last year’s class being #12. We are in the same aisle. Nothing has really changed.

Can we make a very much expanded CFP? Yes - perhaps - but the difference between Top #4 programs and Top #8 is huge.

I had some hopes Freeman could do better in recruiting than Kelly but the BOT and the NIL and Transfer Restrictions being eased simply hinder ND no matter who the HC is.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

 

[NDQuebec]

With last year’s class being #12. We are in the same aisle. Nothing has really changed.

Can we make a very much expanded CFP? Yes - perhaps - but the difference between Top #4 programs and Top #8 is huge.

I had some hopes Freeman could do better in recruiting than Kelly but the BOT and the NIL and Transfer Restrictions being eased simply hinder ND no matter who the HC is.

I agree with most of what you mentioned, except the last part where you imply that it doesn't make any difference who the HC is. Lincoln Riley did miracles at USC because of his reputation and hard work. He was and is a proven, highly successful head coach. You can say the same about Day and Smart, two high profile coaches with proven track records. These universities aren't your typical NIL players. Freeman may turn out to be a great coach, but as of now, he is an unknown commodity. Even Harbaugh, a high-profile, proven head coach, is having success at Michigan and has the #1 recruiting class so far this year.

The common denominator with these success stories is that they have head coaches that are high profile and proven. Keep everything else the same (NIL, transfer restrictions, BOT etc.) but exchange Riley for Freeman and vice versa and I would expect that the USC and Notre Dame situations would be quite different than they are today.

Who knows, maybe in a few years, Freeman will be regarded as a successful proven head coach and will attract elite players. In the meantime, it is what it is.

 

[IrishLax]

With last year’s class being #12. We are in the same aisle. Nothing has really changed.

Can we make a very much expanded CFP? Yes - perhaps - but the difference between Top #4 programs and Top #8 is huge.

I had some hopes Freeman could do better in recruiting than Kelly but the BOT and the NIL and Transfer Restrictions being eased simply hinder ND no matter who the HC is.

I generally agree here. Freeman is recruiting harder/better than BK on many levels but in the NIL era he wasn't ultimately able to close the deal on a number of guys who emphasized $$. We are in the same aisle until either 1) NIL changes 2) ND resources the team better.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I agree with most of what you mentioned, except the last part where you imply that it doesn't make any difference who the HC is. Lincoln Riley did miracles at USC because of his reputation and hard work. He was and is a proven, highly successful head coach. You can say the same about Day and Smart, two high profile coaches with proven track records. These universities aren't your typical NIL players. Freeman may turn out to be a great coach, but as of now, he is an unknown commodity. Even Harbaugh, a high-profile, proven head coach, is having success at Michigan and has the #1 recruiting class so far this year.

The common denominator with these success stories is that they have head coaches that are high profile and proven. Keep everything else the same (NIL, transfer restrictions, BOT etc.) but exchange Riley for Freeman and vice versa and I would expect that the USC and Notre Dame situations would be quite different than they are today.

Who knows, maybe in a few years, Freeman will be regarded as a successful proven head coach and will attract elite players. In the meantime, it is what it is.

Coaches like that aren't coming here.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I generally agree here. Freeman is recruiting harder/better than BK on many levels but in the NIL era he wasn't ultimately able to close the deal on a number of guys who emphasized $$. We are in the same aisle until either 1) NIL changes 2) ND resources the team better.

The timing is frustrating, yes. He's going to have to adapt but he's putting in the work. The sweat and elbow grease part he has down.

I think NIL and The Portal need parameters. The NCAA really did nothing other than just open the barn door, which we should expect of them but is nevertheless ideal.

 

[IrishLax]

I agree with most of what you mentioned, except the last part where you imply that it doesn't make any difference who the HC is. Lincoln Riley did miracles at USC because of his reputation and hard work. He was and is a proven, highly successful head coach. You can say the same about Day and Smart, two high profile coaches with proven track records. These universities aren't your typical NIL players. Freeman may turn out to be a great coach, but as of now, he is an unknown commodity. Even Harbaugh, a high-profile, proven head coach, is having success at Michigan and has the #1 recruiting class so far this year.

The common denominator with these success stories is that they have head coaches that are high profile and proven. Keep everything else the same (NIL, transfer restrictions, BOT etc.) but exchange Riley for Freeman and vice versa and I would expect that the USC and Notre Dame situations would be quite different than they are today.

Who knows, maybe in a few years, Freeman will be regarded as a successful proven head coach and will attract elite players. In the meantime, it is what it is.

USC is heavy on NIL and Caleb Williams got seven figures. Your info is incorrect there, and I say this as someone who ironically has better sources at USC right now than I probably do at Notre Dame. Shit, even CJ Williams got a large NIL deal coming out of HS.

Georgia is one of the biggest NIL players out there. They aren't as flashy as Miami or Oregon with what they're doing and aren't "outbidding" people but their top recruits are absolutely getting paid commensurate with market value. Every single major SEC school is very competitive in the NIL space.

Ohio State and Michigan publicly say that they don't really do NIL, but Ohio State set up one of the better collectives early in NIL and they aren't slouches with what they're raising. I've heard it's below SEC level but they are taking care of guys fine. Michigan was wayyyyyyy behind on NIL last year and there were a lot of articles written as to why... but they've ramped up their game recently, which coincides with their current recruiting class. None of this is rocket science. You need a "hook" to sign any top recruit, and it has to be some combination of on-field success + player development + NIL. Teams like Miami are way over-paying because they aren't selling the first two. At the end of the day, ND is not going to land a lot of top 50 style prospects with the status quo.

 

[NDPhilly]

Need to focus on average recruit rank, not team rank. 91.8 was markedly better than Kelly’s average.

 

[NDQuebec]

USC is heavy on NIL and Caleb Williams got seven figures. Your info is incorrect there, and I say this as someone who ironically has better sources at USC right now than I probably do at Notre Dame. Shit, even CJ Williams got a large NIL deal coming out of HS.

Georgia is one of the biggest NIL players out there. They aren't as flashy as Miami or Oregon with what they're doing and aren't "outbidding" people but their top recruits are absolutely getting paid commensurate with market value. Every single major SEC school is very competitive in the NIL space.

Ohio State and Michigan publicly say that they don't really do NIL, but Ohio State set up one of the better collectives early in NIL and they aren't slouches with what they're raising. I've heard it's below SEC level but they are taking care of guys fine. Michigan was wayyyyyyy behind on NIL last year and there were a lot of articles written as to why... but they've ramped up their game recently, which coincides with their current recruiting class. None of this is rocket science. You need a "hook" to sign any top recruit, and it has to be some combination of on-field success + player development + NIL. Teams like Miami are way over-paying because they aren't selling the first two. At the end of the day, ND is not going to land a lot of top 50 style prospects with the status quo.

Appreciate the input. I guess Notre Dame has a lot of catching up to do with NIL so that they can eventually have an easier time landing the likes of Justin Scott in the near future.

 

[Reaper97]

Need to focus on average recruit rank, not team rank. 91.8 was markedly better than Kelly’s average.

I counter with focusing on wins & losses.
Gerry Faust recruited 4 straight #1 or #2 classes at ND, and his last class which won a national title under Holtz.
But he went 30-26-1 at ND.
Kelly can coach. Freeman needs to win games too.

 

[BeauBenken]

I counter with focusing on wins & losses.
Gerry Faust recruited 4 straight #1 or #2 classes at ND, and his last class which won a national title under Holtz.
But he went 30-26-1 at ND.
Kelly can coach. Freeman needs to win games too.

Considering that they were specifically talking about recruiting having not changed earlier in the thread, I would say his comment has merit.

Of course we need to win the ball games.

 

[Reaper97]

Considering that they were specifically talking about recruiting having not changed earlier in the thread, I would say his comment has merit.

Of course we need to win the ball games.

When everyone talks recruiting, they bash on Kelly.
And he mentioned average recruit ranks & team rankings.
My counter is that it’s not team recruiting rankings or average Star rating, it’s getting the rights kids that fit what you are doing, coaching them up & winning.

“Recruiting” is not just finding the highest ranked players, it’s finding the right players that help you win.

So my post was directly related to his post.

 

[Irishdrunk]

The timing is frustrating, yes. He's going to have to adapt but he's putting in the work. The sweat and elbow grease part he has down.

I think NIL and The Portal need parameters. The NCAA really did nothing other than just open the barn door, which we should expect of them but is nevertheless ideal.

I like Kelly a lot as HC but it is pretty obvious that he didn't bring the energy to the recruiting aspect. Freeman does.

But 2022 and 2023 recruiting cycles forward are not apples to apples as what Kelly had to deal with. While the net results may unfortunately be the same as some of Kelly's better years (i.e. not "Gap Closing"), I think these same headwinds would hampered Kelly too and his results may well have and likely been 5 or so rankings below a typical Freeman class.

But Kelly did get wins despite up and down recruiting.

Can Freeman show the world a 10-2 regular season? If so, I think that might be impactful. He is a new HC. He is not Lincoln Reilly (to NDQuebec's point). While he is so charismatic, he is young and green and that is the difference between him and Reilly, Day and Harbaugh (on various levels).

This NIL, Transfer Relaxation (against ND's tough academic standards) and BOT tripping over their own dicks are all so counter-productive to having Top 5 classes year in and year out.

I wonder if Swarbrick goes to bat for the needed breaks that the Program needs to win a Natty. If I were him I would want a Natty under my arrogant ass belt but maybe he doesn't. Maybe all is well with him and the ND BOT maintaining standards that are beyond reproach if the causalty is not closing the gap.

 

[ColinKSU]

I generally agree here. Freeman is recruiting harder/better than BK on many levels but in the NIL era he wasn't ultimately able to close the deal on a number of guys who emphasized $$. We are in the same aisle until either 1) NIL changes 2) ND resources the team better.

I tell myself that it being at about the same level as Kelly in this current environment is an extreme compliment to Marcus and how hard he's working on the trail. ND's just never going to get over those NIL, Acquisition Fee and Administration walls, so can you imagine what it'd look like with a lazy head coach?

 

[Irishdrunk]

I counter with focusing on wins & losses.
Gerry Faust recruited 4 straight #1 or #2 classes at ND, and his last class which won a national title under Holtz.
But he went 30-26-1 at ND.
Kelly can coach. Freeman needs to win games too.

Did Faust really recruit that well? That was before my time. I am now almost 55 fwiw. His son would come party with friends of mine at the University of Dayton's Ghetto. Pook kid was given some shit at the end. Faust seem like a decent fellow but not much of a screw-turner as a HC. I hope MF will be that screw-turner. I think he now realizes this is truly his team.

 

[NDMatt91]

I tell myself that it being at about the same level as Kelly in this current environment is an extreme compliment to Marcus and how hard he's working on the trail. ND's just never going to get over those NIL, Acquisition Fee and Administration walls, so can you imagine what it'd look like with a lazy head coach?

Yep. Some of the kids in the 2023 class never would've committed if Kelly were still the coach. I highly doubt that Dante Moore would've been a silent under Kelly, either.

 

[irish2104]

ISD on power hour and in comments said that NIL for current players has really stepped up and they are funding players a LOT more... stating they are competing with top schools in that regard and even saying going 5 times more per player and that the current and being very very well taken care of and will keep getting better.. however no mention of paying recruits tho I do think there is something to lets pay Carr, Rushing and Williams.. at least 1 at the top three positions every class.. that is just my speculation tho.

 

[Irishdrunk]

Yep. Some of the kids in the 2023 class never would've committed if Kelly were still the coach. I highly doubt that Dante Moore would've been a silent under Kelly, either.

It’s like debating the smell of a fart in the wind.

First- basing any comparison of a give Coach’s recruiting with any of the following recruits: Dante Moore, Bowen or Rashada is a stupid exercise.

Debating on a coaching getting a silent commit that never closed is dancing bear gif level stupid.

Dante Moore said he liked Coach Kelly and he later did an Official at LSU because of his prior relationship w Coach Kelly.

Lastly, I would hope some of Freeman’s recruits would not commit if but Freeman. Likewise Kelly does get his own recruits - he may not be as active at ND as Freeman but the bigger concern is whether Freeman can win in a manner that gets ND as contenders again.

 

[stlnd01]

I agree with most of what you mentioned, except the last part where you imply that it doesn't make any difference who the HC is. Lincoln Riley did miracles at USC because of his reputation and hard work. He was and is a proven, highly successful head coach. You can say the same about Day and Smart, two high profile coaches with proven track records. These universities aren't your typical NIL players. Freeman may turn out to be a great coach, but as of now, he is an unknown commodity. Even Harbaugh, a high-profile, proven head coach, is having success at Michigan and has the #1 recruiting class so far this year.

Miracles? He made an NY6 bowl, because he brought one of the best quarterbacks in college football with him from Oklahoma. He lost that bowl game to Tulane.
Riley has USC looking better than they were but if that’s a “miracle” the bar is damn low out there.

 

[Irishdrunk]

So it’s us or Miami????

Bag or No Bag??

Freeman vs Ruiz.

 

[NDQuebec]

Miracles? He made an NY6 bowl, because he brought one of the best quarterbacks in college football with him from Oklahoma. He lost that bowl game to Tulane.
Riley has USC looking better than they were but if that’s a “miracle” the bar is damn low out there.

Picky picky. Ok, not a miracle but find me one other program in recent times that had such a turnaround. And, to my point, he brought his QB with him because he was, and is, an excellent and proven coach.

 

[irish4ever]

So it’s us or Miami????

Bag or No Bag??

Freeman vs Ruiz.

WTF! A quick score (NIL) vs a ND degree and set for life ... get a great job and NO financial worries!

 

[Irishdrunk]

WTF! A quick score (NIL) vs a ND degree and set for life ... get a great job and NO financial worries!

And how many 17 make great decisions?? "BMW 3 Series now or BMW 7 Series in 8 - 10 years?"