'23 TX S Peyton Bowen (Oklahoma Signee ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

[ND03]

But in this case Bowen apparently can get in to either school. There are probably few instances where a degree from OU outweighs a degree from Notre Dame.

I agree with this, but I think $2m cash would more than close that gap. If you asked me what I think that number is, I’d say ~$500k up front; a minor premium to the difference in 4 year tuition, and I accept that others have a different number.

For ND (or anyone) to make a reliable assertion about the value spread (other than an opinion, as mine above) they would need to follow the lives of 100s of Will Shipley vs Chris Tyrees over 20 years and show a difference. Just not possible for us to do or to know.

 

[Irish#1]

This was an impressive vanquishing of a straw man army.

IE Rule #1. Don't try to marginalize a degree from ND. Not much raises the cackles on Whiskey, but questioning the value of a degree from ND is one of them.

IE Rule #2. See rule #1.

 

[ND03]

It is always people who didn't go to Notre Dame that are like "the education is the same everywhere!" It's literally not. And you're not just paying for a "network."

I went to Notre Dame… I loved it, but I don’t pretend it’s $2M special, and if enough people really thought that, they would charge more than they already do.

I appreciate the passion here, but I think pretending other colleges are so clearly inferior is both rude and a clear mistake.

For the adults in the thread (meant literally as in people old enough to have had a career), we should all know brilliant people that went to flagship state universities and loved their time and education there.

 

[Irishdrunk]

So is it a fair assumption if we lose Bowen it is only because of a lack of upfront NIL?

Please tell me our class will be better than BK's last class.

 

[laughingirish90]

committed recruits trying to recruit on twitter is always a sign of desperation IMO

i've seen lots of kids from other schools do it a lot over the years and so i don't put too much stock into it either way

 

[CanadalovesND]

So is it a fair assumption if we lose Bowen it is only because of a lack of upfront NIL?

Please tell me our class will be better than BK's last class.

If I had to put a number on it, I'd say it's 75% due to NIL.

Proximity to home and GF round out it.

0% due to Oklahoma being a better program and fit.

 

[NDMatt91]

So is it a fair assumption if we lose Bowen it is only because of a lack of upfront NIL?

Please tell me our class will be better than BK's last class.

If/when Bowen and Limar flip, the class will have a total score of 279.94 with 24 commits. Last year's class had a total score of 275.44 with 22 commits.

 

[indianamouse]

If/when Bowen and Limar flip, the class will have a total score of 279.94 with 24 commits. Last year's class had a total score of 275.44 with 22 commits.

Both were because of freeman

 

[IrishLax]

I went to Notre Dame… I loved it, but I don’t pretend it’s $2M special, and if enough people really thought that, they would charge more than they already do.

I appreciate the passion here, but I think pretending other colleges are so clearly inferior is both rude and a clear mistake.

For the adults in the thread (meant literally as in people old enough to have had a career), we should all know brilliant people that went to flagship state universities and loved their time and education there.

Right, this is a legit argument.

The one I don't buy -- and maybe I was misunderstanding what was being said -- was that all colleges are apples-to-apples equivocal. I just don't buy it. I see it daily in the workforce that there are clear dropoffs in what some institutions teach and how they develop skills/intelligence/problem solving/communication versus others.

 

[Free Manera]

If I had to put a number on it, I'd say it's 75% due to NIL.

Proximity to home and GF round out it.

0% due to Oklahoma being a better program and fit.

With Oregon being a serious player now, it's looking more like 99% NIL. Even if he sticks with OU, it's because they matched Oregon's offer.

However I will say I don't buy that it's $2 million. Could be $1 million though.

 

[CanadalovesND]

If/when Bowen and Limar flip, the class will have a total score of 279.94 with 24 commits. Last year's class had a total score of 275.44 with 22 commits.

So we can call it even?

 

[MacIrish75]

So we can call it even?

“Even” in the sense that Marcus Freeman has had an incredible impact on recruiting in consecutive years? Absolutely.

 

[NDMatt91]

“Even” in the sense that Marcus Freeman has had an incredible impact on recruiting in consecutive years? Absolutely.

Yep. And makes you wonder what the score of the class would be if BK were still here. 10 points lower, maybe?

 

[Dale]

Last year had Sneed, but this year has Minchey. Also remember Aamil Wagner shot up in the rankings before it was over, as did Raridon and a few others. Chan was really the only one that got dinged a good amount.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

The problem with your thinking, is you keep assuming he won’t make money at Notre Dame. He may not make upfront money, but has the opportunity to make a ton of money at Notre Dame just in addition to getting an ND degree just like Hamilton and that makes the ND option better.

Responding to StPaul_Irish

Ok, I understand how it can look that way. NO I am not saying they can't make that money at ND, and there is a good chance they can. Maybe a better way to view my argument is in the guise of "money up front" or "Promised money". Weather or not the guaranteed money actually materializes is a whole different discussion. However when someone is sitting in your living room or on the phone saying "we secured $X bag for you", it is hard to say no to that. It's a helluva lot harder for MFMF to sell the "hope", when he can't promise anything (financially).

Hope that clears it up.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I went to Notre Dame… I loved it, but I don’t pretend it’s $2M special, and if enough people really thought that, they would charge more than they already do.

I appreciate the passion here, but I think pretending other colleges are so clearly inferior is both rude and a clear mistake.

For the adults in the thread (meant literally as in people old enough to have had a career), we should all know brilliant people that went to flagship state universities and loved their time and education there.

If that is how you want to interpret it, sure. Of course MF should highlight the benny's of ND, but how can ANYONE look someone in the eye and tell them not to take life changing money. Any ND grad will tell you, a ND education will open some doors and has a great network, but it's not what we all think/want it to be. Of course I think kids should go to ND and most of the benefits outweigh the negatives... but we need to put our fandom aside and be realistic. IT SUCK, and I wish it weren't this way and I won't go down w/o a fight, but lets be real here. Are you telling me, you would turn down big money (even the opportunity) just to go to ND?

At this point, you two are intentionally overlooking two important points myself and others have made:

1) Plenty of reports from last year's P4P are suggesting that these "$2M" offers aren't materializing. Likely, because they aren't a thing. It's not like the MIB are showing up with duffel bags at these recruits homes. Any offer like this is most likely a cumulative offer, paid out over their time on campus with handshake promises that it would be guaranteed. Perhaps some cash up front, but not two mill. Which leads me to...

2) ND's NIL has been reported to pay out well into the six figures, which over 4 years could be MORE than $2M. Legal, documented/traceable, real dollars that players are actually getting (not just getting promised).

I have very little doubt that MF and co are dropping the ball on making this distinction.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Ok, I understand how it can look that way. NO I am not saying they can't make that money at ND, and there is a good chance they can. Maybe a better way to view my argument is in the guise of "money up front" or "Promised money". Weather or not the guaranteed money actually materializes is a whole different discussion. However when someone is sitting in your living room or on the phone saying "we secured $X bag for you", it is hard to say no to that. It's a helluva lot harder for MFMF to sell the "hope", when he can't promise anything (financially).

Hope that clears it up.

It doesn't clear it up. Because this is an example of perpetually falling for the empty bag promise that plenty of kids from last year are pissed about. There is a difference between a phone call saying "we secured a bag for you" versus actually seeing that money in your bank account. These are not the same situation.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Right, this is a legit argument.

The one I don't buy -- and maybe I was misunderstanding what was being said -- was that all colleges are apples-to-apples equivocal. I just don't buy it. I see it daily in the workforce that there are clear dropoffs in what some institutions teach and how they develop skills/intelligence/problem solving/communication versus others.

If this is directed at me, I get it, but that is not what I was saying. I do belive that a ND educations is superior in reality and on paper then many/most schools not named Harvard, MIT et al. I just feel that so much is put on ND being the best education ever, and kids are stupid if they choose State School X instead of ND. Point is, you can get a fantastic education just about anywhere. Its up to each individual if they want to maximize that.

 

[ND03]

At this point, you two are intentionally overlooking two important points myself and others have made:

1) Plenty of reports from last year's P4P are suggesting that these "$2M" offers aren't materializing. Likely, because they aren't a thing. It's not like the MIB are showing up with duffel bags at these recruits homes. Any offer like this is most likely a cumulative offer, paid out over their time on campus with handshake promises that it would be guaranteed. Perhaps some cash up front, but not two mill. Which leads me to...

2) ND's NIL has been reported to pay out well into the six figures, which over 4 years could be MORE than $2M. Legal, documented/traceable, real dollars that players are actually getting (not just getting promised).

I have very little doubt that MF and co are dropping the ball on making this distinction.

FWIW
1) not overlooking this. Totally agree with your points on the reality of these deals. I was just trying to stay within the confines of the original hypothetical of $2m+ OU Scholly vs ND Scholly.

2) this is compelling, with the caveats of how long will it take to get those deals, and is the $2m capped or is it a base with upside if the recruit shows out.

Kyle Hamilton got similar sponsors to Will Anderson. Do any of us know who made more? (Legitimately asking)

 

[StPaul_Irish]

It doesn't clear it up. Because this is an example of perpetually falling for the empty bag promise that plenty of kids from last year are pissed about. There is a difference between a phone call saying "we secured a bag for you" versus actually seeing that money in your bank account. These are not the same situation.

Of course it is different, but the thought/idea/promise seems to have a lot of sway

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Just to clarify: NIL does not equal P4P which (mostly) does not equal bags of cash dumped out on coffee tables in recruit's homes.

 

[arahop]

Agreed. Freeman is going to sell him on ND period. As he should.

Love ND but give me 1 million guaranteed or whatever and ND offers nothing I'm taking the money 💰💰💰💰

 

[Domina Nostra]

Personally, I think a strong argument against a the $2M payday for your 18 yo, is the likelihood (I did not say certitude) that it makes him into a total douche bag-- a la Johnny Manziel.

That's a lot of money for someone so young with so little responsibility. I wonder if its better or worse to have that money in a college setting, with so many people your age to share in your fun, or in a pro setting, where many of your "peers" are adults who have families?

 

[Free Manera]

Just to clarify: NIL does not equal P4P which (mostly) does not equal bags of cash dumped out on coffee tables in recruit's homes.

Correct. Just because ND is getting NIL'd by places doesn't necessarily mean they are breaking rules. I would actually not be surprised if Oregon is doing it legit, because they can. Uncle Phil says "hey show up to Nike every Thursday of game week, pose for a picture, and you get $100k each time." They can memorialize this in writing if they want, it's not pay for play and is legal.

What A&M is doing is much sketchier, aka paying kids up front for their marketing rights.

 

[fightingirish26]

Personally, I think a strong argument against a the $2M payday for your 18 yo, is the likelihood (I did not say certitude) that it makes him into a total douche bag-- a la Johnny Manziel.

To be fair growing up and being recruited as a 5 star athlete can make someone into a total douchebag too haha

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

Unfortunately A&M BMDs have more money and willingness to spend it than just about any other school other than Texas.

TAMU is literally a cow college

 

[Domina Nostra]

To be fair growing up and being recruited as a 5 star athlete can make someone into a total douchebag too haha

FACT.

 

[ACamp1900]

It is always people who didn't go to Notre Dame that are like "the education is the same everywhere!" It's literally not. And you're not just paying for a "network."

I attended a few different schools to get my degrees and I’ve taught for a number of schools including two D1 football schools,…. It’s not the same everywhere. At all.

 

[ND03]

TAMU is literally a cow college

I’m pretty sure this is a joke, but just for those who think it’s not: A&M is a great example of a school that has a ton to offer in terms of career prospects for students that seek it (huge network of loyal alumni willing to hire and very good biz & engineering programs) ND has an edge, but their off field stuff is real too.

 

[Reaper97]

Love ND but give me 1 million guaranteed or whatever and ND offers nothing I'm taking the money 💰💰💰💰

I try to stay out of the money discussion, but I don’t think people really understand the reality of the money.
I have dozens of pro athletes in my gym, not counting the pros in combat sports, but NFL, NBA, etc…guys.
They make it clear how it works, especially when you are young.
First off, if you hear $1 million, it’s not $1 million. It’s less.
Second, many owe a percentage to somebody. Even these HS kids have a representative they must pay.
Then you have taxes.
Then you aren’t getting it all up front. You might get a quarter of it to show up.
So if you hear a number like $1 million, the player will actually be looking at around $100-$150k total after the real amount is settled, pay their rep, pay taxes, & divide it into a quarter because they aren’t giving it all to them upfront.
I know that still sounds like a lot of money, but Bowen’s family is middle class, (not hurting), and the money goes fast if an 18 year old has it, so mom is probably controlling it anyways.
If he bets on himself, he would make way more in a few years & have the ace in the hole if he gets injured.
One of my fight teammates played in the NFL for 9 years & by the time I met him he was broke. He walked me through how his public contracts were not what he actually ended up with. Add in he was young & wasted half of it the first couple years (like HS kids will do), & it’s not what it seems.
Most doctors I work with have more money at 30 than the average NFL player who didn’t get past their rookie contract (which is the vast majority of them). And yes, making the money when you are a little older & understanding the value of it is the main factor for that.
Look at a couple of those A&M DL who were supposedly getting huge deals. They weren’t playing (because there were 8 in one class), thus were not getting paid the original amount.

Then there is the other side.
This might be hard for people to believe, but many kids do make the decision money isn’t everything. A lot, I mean a lot of kids, turn down money, family inheritance, free rides to big schools, etc…to join the military. Kids walk away from money to volunteer for special operations & spend, what would be their college year's, multiple years going through hell training, just to get the chance to go fight, for $30k a year.
The point is some kids have a bigger purpose & outlook than money.