'23 OH DE Brenan Vernon (Notre Dame Signee)

[Dale]

2019 was really the last year this was a problem, when you had a DL group of Jacob Lacey (6'1 280), Howard Cross (6'1 275), but they also had Hunter Spears (6'4 285), who was a bigger body. However, he was the one that didn't translate.

In 2020, you had Mills (6'5 290) and Kahuna (6'3 320). Both big guys. I really think we missed Aidan this year based on what were hearing about his development going into Spring.

In 2021, you had Rubio (6'5 300) and Onye (6'4 285). Rubio began to flash this year.

In 2022, you had Hinish (6'2 285) and Ford (6'4 275).

ND's actually gotten a good bit of size the past 3 cycles, but it's a combination of having some size, but it not translating or being hurt (Spears and Kahuna). Onye is more so a project, but appears to have made some strides as a sophomore.

The only undersized interior guy they took the past 3 cycles was Hinish and...well, he's a Hinish.

Wel you excluded all the DEs. Who isn’t either undersized or a project from:

Alex Ehrensberger
Aidan K
Rylie Mills
Jordan Botelho
Gabe Rubio
Jason Onye
Will Schweitzer
Devin Aupiu

 

[IrishSpartan]

He body is really surprising. I thought he was bulking up and near 300? I had him pinned as a 3 tech or eventual nose. Now I’m not sure.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Wel you excluded all the DEs. Who isn’t either undersized or a project from:

Alex Ehrensberger
Aidan K
Rylie Mills
Jordan Botelho
Gabe Rubio
Jason Onye
Will Schweitzer
Devin Aupiu

I don't think size is much of an issue with end.

Among those 8, I'd say the bottom 3 and Ehrensberger are projects.

The rest, while not necessarily plug and play, were more developed and polished DL prospects.

 

[Dale]

I don't think size is much of an issue with end.

Among those 8, I'd say the bottom 3 and Ehrensberger are projects.

The rest, while not necessarily plug and play, were more developed and polished DL prospects.

Botelho is undersized for his position at this level. Still can be a very good player and over-performed my expectations at times this year but he still, length wise, isn’t prototypical size. That’s 5 out of 8 in a “improved” from this angle set of classes.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Botelho is undersized for his position at this level. Still can be a very good player and over-performed my expectations at times this year but he still, length wise, isn’t prototypical size. That’s 5 out of 8 in a “improved” from this angle set of classes.

Botelho is actually the typical size for a Vyper. He's like 6'3 250.

Foskey was bigger than the typical Vyper at 6'5 265.

Will Anderson was effectively Bama's version of the Vyper at 6'4 243.

Nolan Smith is 6'3 235 as an edge defender.

He was a highly rated edge player and has shown the physical traits to be a great edge player. For whatever reason, it hadn't clicked for him until recently. It was mental for him, not a matter of physical development.

 

[Dale]

Botelho is actually the typical size for a Vyper. He's like 6'3 250.

Foskey was bigger than the typical Vyper at 6'5 265.

Will Anderson was effectively Bama's version of the Vyper at 6'4 243.

Nolan Smith is 6'3 235 as an edge defender.

He was a highly rated edge player and has shown the physical traits to be a great edge player. For whatever reason, it hadn't clicked for him until recently. It was mental for him, not a matter of physical development.

Botelho is listed at 6’2 1/2. I don’t think it’s any slight or hot take to admit Botelho is slightly undersized in the length department. Unless his wingspan is freaky. Nick Herbig easy comp, thing to shoot for, been referenced here many times but the kid is slightly undersized in the frame of an edge rusher for a team that’s competing for the CFP.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Lol...sadly that is true.

Elston was a good identifier and developer of talent but he may of gotten a bit carried away with the undersized guys in recent cycles. One or two is fine but suddenly we have almost a whole DL of project and/or undersized overachiever guys.

Not good when Rubio and Mills are the exception not the norm.

The key to going 3-4 or 3-3-5 will be the development of Rubio and Keanaaina staying. If they can play nose, and you allow everyone to add about 5 lbs in the offseason, this is how we would look:

SDE: Osafo-Mensah (255); Ehrensberger (270)
NT: Rubio (300); [Keanaaina] (325); Hinish (290)
DT: Cross (280); Mills (295); Ford (280)
WDE: [Ademilola (255)]; Botelho (255); Tuihalamaka (245)/Burnham (240)

The 3-man front would be Mills, Rubio/Keanaaina, and Cross.

 

[CanadalovesND]

To my understanding, Ademilola played the majority of the second half of the season on the strongside, when Mills would kick inside.

I don't think we should automatically pencil Justin in as a pure Vyper for next season. It's more likely he and NaNa have a tag-team tandem at Big End. Whether you agree or not if that fits - it's what happened.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Botelho is listed at 6’2 1/2. I don’t think it’s any slight or hot take to admit Botelho is slightly undersized in the length department. Unless his wingspan is freaky. Nick Herbig easy comp, thing to shoot for, been referenced here many times but the kid is slightly undersized in the frame of an edge rusher for a team that’s competing for the CFP.

That isn't big for Vyper, but I've always looked at ideal rush end/Vyper size being somewhere in the realm of 6'3ish and 245ish.

I don't think Botelho being slightly below that is enough to place him in the project/undersized range. It's not like Lacey or Cross, where his size limits his ability to put on the ideal weight for his position. Those guys were like 6'1-6'2 and couldn't seem to get up past 280, which isn't ideal for 3T, much less 1T.

Botelho has zero issue getting up to 250 and playing with the bend and twitch to crash the edge. For him, it's all about consistency and the mental aspect of the game.

 

[Domina Nostra]

To my understanding, Ademilola played the majority of the second half of the season on the strongside, when Mills would kick inside.

I don't think we should automatically pencil Justin in as a pure Vyper for next season. It's more likely he and NaNa have a tag-team tandem at Big End. Whether you agree or not if that fits - it's what happened.

I agree, if he stays, he'll probably play both sides. If Botelho lives up to his promise, he should definitely start.

They must get Ademilola and Keanaaina to stay!!!

SDE: [Ademilola (255)], Osafo-Mensah (255); Ehrensberger (270)
NT: Rubio (300); [Keanaaina] (325); Hinish (290)
DT: Cross (280); Mills (295); Ford (280)
WDE: Botelho (255); Tuihalamaka (245)/Burnham (240)

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'm an ignoramus when it comes to our current DLine, but that line-up looks thin and lacking in game wreckers to me and I haven't felt that way about our DLine for MANY years now. Please comment to make me feel better about this.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I'm an ignoramus when it comes to our current DLine, but that line-up looks thin and lacking in game wreckers to me and I haven't felt that way about our DLine for MANY years now. Please comment to make me feel better about this.

They are planning on bringing in reinforcements...

But I still think you can say that while the floor is low with this line, there are some guys with pretty high ceilings who have flashed in the past.

- Cross is a really skilled player and could be a lot better if they move him from NT (where he is WAY undersized) to DT where he is definitely small, but makes up for it with speed and skill.
- Mills is a monster in an NFL body and, if he gets consistent, could be a real force.
- Rubio is a very big boy, plays very hard, and his bad plays appear to be the result of poor technique (so they are correctable)
- Keanaaina is huge and could be a very good tandem with Rubio at NT if (he stays)
- Botelho was very effective in a very limited role and has a real killer instinct. If he gets the mental side down, I think he will be our most effective pure WDE since Okwara.

So hyper-optimistically you could have...

SDE: seasoned veteran with solid backup
DT: Two playmakers with very different body types to keep OGs off-balance
NT: Two big, tough space hogs
WDE: a ferocious menace

 

[IrishLax]

The biggest issue with the line is the apparent lack of size to play a 3 man front but lack of depth/talent to play a 4 man front.

With that being said, you have to like the potential of Bothelo and some of the young guys we haven't seen much of yet at DE. That means you just need to find a some production/toughness at DT and you're probably fine.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I'm an ignoramus when it comes to our current DLine, but that line-up looks thin and lacking in game wreckers to me and I haven't felt that way about our DLine for MANY years now. Please comment to make me feel better about this.

I don't recall feeling super good about 2018.

ND swapped Tillery over to 3T, which helped. I can see the same happening with Cross.

Kareem had to emerge after Hayes transferred. Okwara emerged at Vyper. Then Hinish, as a true sophomore, became the guy at NT.

A lot of unknowns going into the season but it worked out pretty well.

 

[Dale]

If they were to get Lucas (which I doubt), I’d build by D around Lucas - Rubio - Mills and figure out the rest later. Those 3 should be maximized.

 

[stpeteirish]

I'm an ignoramus when it comes to our current DLine, but that line-up looks thin and lacking in game wreckers to me and I haven't felt that way about our DLine for MANY years now. Please comment to make me feel better about this.

Sorry, I think you’re right. We need to upgrade, not hope guys who aren’t good stay and clog up the scholarships

 

[Old Man Mike]

To make my opinion clear, I think that our guys are Good, just maybe not the gamewreckers I'm used to, or maybe not even in the accumulation the game-wrecking machine I'm used to. I'll almost NEVER say that our guys aren't "good." He!l, they got ND scholarships by impressing our coaching staff. (I'd never be dismissive of a player anyway --- critical yes, dismissive, no.)

 

[Bluto]

I don't recall feeling super good about 2018.

ND swapped Tillery over to 3T, which helped. I can see the same happening with Cross.

Kareem had to emerge after Hayes transferred. Okwara emerged at Vyper. Then Hinish, as a true sophomore, became the guy at NT.

A lot of unknowns going into the season but it worked out pretty well.

I remember being pretty excited about the 2018 d line. It had a bunch of really good depth guys. Both of the Jones brothers, Hayes, Oghoufo, Tagovailoa-Amosa, Ademiola, Ogundeji. Don’t see anyone comparable to Tillery on next years dline. Kareem and Okwara started to flash in 2017 and looked like the real deal. Didn’t really see anything comparable in my opinion from the young guys this year.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

If they were to get Lucas (which I doubt), I’d build by D around Lucas - Rubio - Mills and figure out the rest later. Those 3 should be maximized.

I love the sound of it but man, that is a tough call. Here's the roster as it's currently composed (without the 4 freshman, one of which could surprise):

9	Justin Ademilola	DL	6-1 3/4	253	Graduate Student/Senior	Jackson, NJ	St. Peter's Prep
31	Nana Osafo-Mensah	DL	6-3 1/8	250	Senior/Junior	Fort Worth, TX	Nolan Catholic
40	Joshua Burnham	DL	6-3 1/2	233	Freshman/Freshman	Traverse City, MI	Traverse City Central HS
41	Donovan Hinish	DL	6-1 5/8	280	Freshman/Freshman	Pittsburgh, PA	Central Catholic
47	Jason Onye	DL	6-4 1/2	283	Sophomore/Freshman	North Providence, RI	Bishop Hendricken
56	Howard Cross III	DL	6-0 7/8	276	Senior/Junior	Paramus, NJ	Saint Joseph Regional
90	Alexander Ehrensberger	DL	6-6 7/8	267	Junior/Sophomore	Dusseldorf, Germany	Theodor-Fliedner Gymnasium
91	Aiden Gobaira	DL	6-4 5/8	241	Freshman/Freshman	Fairfax, VA	Chantilly HS
92	Aidan Keanaaina	DL	6-3	323	Junior/Sophomore	Brighton, CO	J.K. Mullen
97	Gabriel Rubio	DL	6-5 1/4	295	Sophomore/Freshman	St. Louis, MO	Lutheran St. Charles
98	Tyson Ford	DL	6-3 7/8	275	Freshman/Freshman	St. Louis, MO	John Burroughs HS
99	Rylie Mills	DL	6-5 1/8	292	Junior/Junior	Lake Bluff, IL	Lake Forest

I never suggest who I'd play because I can't watch practice but if we can even get one high level transfer player then surely we can find an effective rotation of 6 players out of 12-15 (including freshman), right? Can one of the current frosh, soon-to-be-sophomores breakthrough?

 

[clashmore_mike]

 

[Domina Nostra]

Not an expert, but looks like Vernon won that rep.

 

[Dale]

It indeed looks like someone who’s never pass blocked

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

It indeed looks like someone who’s never pass blocked

Not a lot of footwork from either of them there.

 

[Irish#1]

HH probably sees that clip and thinks, I've got some work to do.

 

[INLaw]

If they were to get Lucas (which I doubt), I’d build by D around Lucas - Rubio - Mills and figure out the rest later. Those 3 should be maximized.

Looks like you just played out in appropriate in order three down look with those names and rush with a stand up edge backer

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Brenan Bosa


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[Dale]

 

[BobbyMac]

Brenan Bosa


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Pretty sure this is the bouncer that wouldn't let me into Mother's on Division until I turned 21
.

 

[IrishBoognish]

Pretty sure this is the bouncer that wouldn't let me into Mother's on Division until I turned 21
.

Ya man... I'm not sure that guy likes me very much. Even though I think he's cool.

I just get the feeling he doesn't like my stupid face.

 

[dublinirish]

The Tim's remarking how Vernon totally reshaped himself in the offseason