'23 FL DE Keon Keeley (Prodigal Son)

[CoachB]

Gonna make myself feel old here, but….

When I used to come on this site for the past decade+ , I would come for insanely solid information , insider stuff that you couldn’t get anywhere else unless you paid out the A** for it. Along with intelligent opinions and conversation. Throw in a bit of immature banter and it was a lovely place to be haha

Of course the sky would fall with some Arrelious Benn or Aaron Lynch type situations, but never was it to the point where I wanted to ever block a poster. Now I feel like I come on daily and hear MOSTLY negative, whiny, or obnoxious takes from people I’ve never even seen on here, and have less than zero credibility as far as ND info goes.

Idk.. I guess all I’m saying is someone please save the ONLY ND site I go to!!!

GO MARCUS FREEMAN, GO ND, and FUCK MICHIGAN

Could not have said it better myself.

 

[PutuporShutup]

The “sky is falling” reaction to every bit of news that isn’t a clear positive to ND is exhausting to say the least.

This must be why Singer doesn’t want to break news and hates moderating their ND message board.

people have been complaining about posters saying the sky is falling for years and years and years........ Well guess what, if the goal is a championship, yes the sky is falling because we aren't putting ourselves in a realistic spot to win one if we lose our top recruits. The program is in very good shape, but I hope that's not the goal, to just be in good shape.

I get why people dislike the negativity, but crap, we haven't closed the gap if we lose keeley and bowen and don't land a really good QB in 23. I'm not sure why we should be super duper positive in these situation and have an everything is good mentality. It's not if we lose them. Bowen and Keeley have been committed for a long time, you can't lose your top talent with no issues internally or win loss issues.

I'm an absolute huge ND fan and some say even intelligent , but if I was offered $500k to go to Bama with opportunity to make more vs the opportunity to make money while at ND but nothing guaranteed. I'm probably taking Bama even though I can't stand Bama and love ND.

ND will know it's in a championship spot when 4* recruits consistently transfer/leave due to more talent at their position and concern they won't get on the field. Although I don't love what happened with Irvin, it was due to healthy recruiting at RB for ND. Edwards Love Limar IMHO are much better prospects than Irvin. If one of our oline decommitted because we landed Freeling, that would be a good problem because he probably would be our best oline prospect with Jagusah.

The next 6 months are enormous for the next 5 yeas. 10-2 minimum and keep a top 3-4 class puts ND in a spot to build towards a championship team (s).

 

[NDohio]

people have been complaining about posters saying the sky is falling for years and years and years........ Well guess what, if the goal is a championship, yes the sky is falling because we aren't putting ourselves in a realistic spot to win one if we lose our top recruits. The program is in very good shape, but I hope that's not the goal, to just be in good shape.

I get why people dislike the negativity, but crap, we haven't closed the gap if we lose keeley and bowen and don't land a really good QB in 23. I'm not sure why we should be super duper positive in these situation and have an everything is good mentality. It's not if we lose them. Bowen and Keeley have been committed for a long time, you can't lose your top talent with no issues internally or win loss issues.

I'm an absolute huge ND fan and some say even intelligent , but if I was offered $500k to go to Bama with opportunity to make more vs the opportunity to make money while at ND but nothing guaranteed. I'm probably taking Bama even though I can't stand Bama and love ND.

ND will know it's in a championship spot when 4* recruits consistently transfer/leave due to more talent at their position and concern they won't get on the field. Although I don't love what happened with Irvin, it was due to healthy recruiting at RB for ND. Edwards Love Limar IMHO are much better prospects than Irvin. If one of our oline decommitted because we landed Freeling, that would be a good problem because he probably would be our best oline prospect with Jagusah.

This site has always had its negative posters - usually they flame out by either being banned or get tired of the rest of us not following along with their negativity and they become annoyed that they are ignored and go away. Hopefully that trend continues. There just seems to be quite a few that have all come at once.

To your post. BK's last five years raised the level of ND football to the very good shape you speak of. There are a LOT of posters on this site that are a little older and we lived through some really bad times as ND fans. The last five years have given us a glimmer of hope that we can get back to glory days. One thing that I have learned though is that with ND the turnaround can't/won't happen as quickly as some fans expect.

Coach Freeman is another step in ND football reaching the heights we all long for. The criticisms that some of the posters are heaping on him are ridiculous. He helped lead the '22 class to one of the best classes in the BK era, he has ND in discussions with some of the top recruits in the nation, the DEPTH of this recruiting class is head and shoulders above what ND has had in years, and this is in his first season as head coach. The criticism of the Fiesta Bowl is plain stupidity (Irish#1 has that covered).

Pessimistic attitudes is one thing - we have several of them on the board - ridiculous negativity is altogether different.

 

[9_To_Your_Temple_Presto]

How hard is it for you to understand the dynamics in play from the time Freeman was promoted until the bowl game? This wasn't a normal scenario where he had all of the time in the world to devote to the bowl game. If this was at the end of his first season as HC, then you have a point, but it wasn't. It's like you keep bringing your '73 Vega to a car show and telling everyone it's a good as the '69 Mach I that won first prize.

You guys are missing the point on the Fiesta Bowl

Nobody is saying the issue was that Freeman and ND didn't prepare for the bowl like Bama did for the 2012 BCS Championship game

If anything, ND and Freeman actually seemed well prepared based upon the start

Issue is the epic 2nd half collapse and failure by Freeman to correct the issue IN GAME

Its not like he had his laptop out on the sideline and was working on the 2022 fall camp practice schedule

This other notion that Freeman could've jumped in at any time and remedied the defense is also a narrative spin

We're supposed to believe that he would just stand completely stoic whilst the opponent went up and down the field in second half?

He's going to take the L in his first game ever as a HC to ensure that the dline coach whom he didn't hire and had only known for about 10.5 months got a completely fair shake?

Blindly simping for new HC hires--you'd think ND fans would've learned that lesson by now

 

[StPaul_Irish]

You guys are missing the point on the Fiesta Bowl

Nobody is saying the issue was that Freeman and ND didn't prepare for the bowl like Bama did for the 2012 BCS Championship game

If anything, ND and Freeman actually seemed well prepared based upon the start

Issue is the epic 2nd half collapse and failure by Freeman to correct the issue IN GAME

Its not like he had his laptop out on the sideline and was working on the 2022 fall camp practice schedule

This other notion that Freeman could've jumped in at any time and remedied the defense is also a narrative spin

We're supposed to believe that he would just stand completely stoic whilst the opponent went up and down the field in second half?

He's going to take the L in his first game ever as a HC to ensure that the dline coach whom he didn't hire and had only known for about 10.5 months got a completely fair shake?

Blindly simping for new HC hires--you'd think ND fans would've learned that lesson by now

I don't like you

 

[PutuporShutup]

This site has always had its negative posters - usually they flame out by either being banned or get tired of the rest of us not following along with their negativity and they become annoyed that they are ignored and go away. Hopefully that trend continues. There just seems to be quite a few that have all come at once.

To your post. BK's last five years raised the level of ND football to the very good shape you speak of. There are a LOT of posters on this site that are a little older and we lived through some really bad times as ND fans. The last five years have given us a glimmer of hope that we can get back to glory days. One thing that I have learned though is that with ND the turnaround can't/won't happen as quickly as some fans expect.

Coach Freeman is another step in ND football reaching the heights we all long for. The criticisms that some of the posters are heaping on him are ridiculous. He helped lead the '22 class to one of the best classes in the BK era, he has ND in discussions with some of the top recruits in the nation, the DEPTH of this recruiting class is head and shoulders above what ND has had in years, and this is in his first season as head coach. The criticism of the Fiesta Bowl is plain stupidity (Irish#1 has that covered).

Pessimistic attitudes is one thing - we have several of them on the board - ridiculous negativity is altogether different.

I don't get the criticism on freeman as a recruiter/leader/builder but I do, myself included, have a lot of questions and concerns about his X's and O's, game planning, and adjustments. I just haven't been impressed there.

The effort our staff is putting into recruiting, only big time winning this year, and or a top 5 coach IMHO could improve recruiting (other than Rees). I'm not a fan of some of Rees's recruiting call it blunders or approach.

 

[PutuporShutup]

You guys are missing the point on the Fiesta Bowl

Nobody is saying the issue was that Freeman and ND didn't prepare for the bowl like Bama did for the 2012 BCS Championship game

If anything, ND and Freeman actually seemed well prepared based upon the start

Issue is the epic 2nd half collapse and failure by Freeman to correct the issue IN GAME

Its not like he had his laptop out on the sideline and was working on the 2022 fall camp practice schedule

This other notion that Freeman could've jumped in at any time and remedied the defense is also a narrative spin

We're supposed to believe that he would just stand completely stoic whilst the opponent went up and down the field in second half?

He's going to take the L in his first game ever as a HC to ensure that the dline coach whom he didn't hire and had only known for about 10.5 months got a completely fair shake?

Blindly simping for new HC hires--you'd think ND fans would've learned that lesson by now

this is accurate. It was freeman's D plain and simple. Elston called plays but you don't build a Defense for a year then completely change it for one game. WE didn't, it was the same D, scheme, and play calls we saw all year. OK state just had a shifty QB, and some pretty good wrs, and they knew to exploit Lewis. Freeman and or anyone didn't make any positive changes on D in the second half. We gave up over 400 yards i think in the second half. That is insane.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

You guys are missing the point on the Fiesta Bowl

Nobody is saying the issue was that Freeman and ND didn't prepare for the bowl like Bama did for the 2012 BCS Championship game

If anything, ND and Freeman actually seemed well prepared based upon the start

Issue is the epic 2nd half collapse and failure by Freeman to correct the issue IN GAME

Its not like he had his laptop out on the sideline and was working on the 2022 fall camp practice schedule

This other notion that Freeman could've jumped in at any time and remedied the defense is also a narrative spin

We're supposed to believe that he would just stand completely stoic whilst the opponent went up and down the field in second half?

He's going to take the L in his first game ever as a HC to ensure that the dline coach whom he didn't hire and had only known for about 10.5 months got a completely fair shake?

Blindly simping for new HC hires--you'd think ND fans would've learned that lesson by now

Why

Is

Everything

Double

Spaced

Who

Hurt

You

 

[9_To_Your_Temple_Presto]

I'm not sure why we should be super duper positive in these situation and have an everything is good mentality. It's not if we lose them.

First, a lot of fans just don't realize what needs to occur on the trail for ND to be a legit perennial national championship contender

Even if ND does keep Keeley and Bowen, thats like pissing into the ocean compared to Bama, Georgia, and OSU

Additional guys like M'Pemba, Downs, D Moore, J Moore, Tate, etc needed to be added too

And then those results would need to be replicated in the next two classes as well

Second, some people just inherently don't want to hear bad news nor deal well with hearing dissenting points of view

You can tell those types on message boards fairly easily as they reflexively respond to any type of critique as "overly negative" or "trolls" or "doom and gloom"

They just attack the poster and not the post. Because frankly they don't really have any good point to refute--they just don't like hearing something that doesn't reflect their world view

Picture a toddler with his hands on his ears screaming "la la la"--thats them

 

[Ndaccountant]

First, a lot of fans just don't realize what needs to occur on the trail for ND to be a legit perennial national championship contender

Even if ND does keep Keeley and Bowen, thats like pissing into the ocean compared to Bama, Georgia, and OSU

Additional guys like M'Pemba, Downs, D Moore, J Moore, Tate, etc needed to be added too

And then those results would need to be replicated in the next two classes as well

Second, some people just inherently don't want to hear bad news nor deal well with hearing dissenting points of view

You can tell those types on message boards fairly easily as they reflexively respond to any type of critique as "overly negative" or "trolls" or "doom and gloom"

They just attack the poster and not the post. Because frankly they don't really have any good point to refute--they just don't like hearing something that doesn't reflect their world view

Picture a toddler with his hands on his ears screaming "la la la"--thats them

No. Not at all,, perspective is needed IMO.

You are not wrong that multiple top5 classes in a row is needed. But you can't have 5 in a row without 1 in a row. As of now, ND looks like it will have a shot at top 5. But being upset they don't have stacked classes is pointless. He needs 23 and 24 to be good, signs are pointing in that direction. But if this and Okie State is giving you a wedgie, God help us after Ohio State beats us. 10 wins this year is likely IMO, but you are going to ruin the whole season for yourself after week 1. I feel bad for you.

 

[NDFAN420]

Wow, I leave for a couple of months re: Ukraine, and there's all kinds of handles I've never seen before.

ND 'cruiting is hot, hot, hot.

 

[NumbersGuy0520]

Yeah man. If not for that, Alabama would have totally respected Keeleys commitment and backed off right?

This isn't a conspiracy. Keeley is the best edge rusher of 2023. If you are blaming a joke for his recruitment, maybe it's time to back away from the keyboard.

Bama would’ve recruited Keeley hard with or without his mom’s comment.

You’re right, there is no conspiracy here. Not sure what the fuss in this response is. I’m chill.

Simply was observing that Bama most likely saw Keeley’s mom’s tweet and responded in their best interest.

 

[NDohio]

You guys are missing the point on the Fiesta Bowl

Nobody is saying the issue was that Freeman and ND didn't prepare for the bowl like Bama did for the 2012 BCS Championship game

If anything, ND and Freeman actually seemed well prepared based upon the start

Issue is the epic 2nd half collapse and failure by Freeman to correct the issue IN GAME

Its not like he had his laptop out on the sideline and was working on the 2022 fall camp practice schedule

This other notion that Freeman could've jumped in at any time and remedied the defense is also a narrative spin

We're supposed to believe that he would just stand completely stoic whilst the opponent went up and down the field in second half?

He's going to take the L in his first game ever as a HC to ensure that the dline coach whom he didn't hire and had only known for about 10.5 months got a completely fair shake?

Blindly simping for new HC hires--you'd think ND fans would've learned that lesson by now

Except you seem to forget something about that game. Freeman took the play calling duties away from Elston in the fourth quarter and the defense played better and gave ND a chance in that game. The wheels were falling off with Elston calling plays and Freeman made an in game decision to strip him of the duty. I am not looking at that game incorrectly, you are.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

First, a lot of fans just don't realize what needs to occur on the trail for ND to be a legit perennial national championship contender

Most posters here seem to have a pretty realistic grasp on where we stand vis-a-vis the Big 3. We're closer now than we've been in the last 30 years, but it would still take a good deal of luck to win another title, and if this NIL chaos doesn't get reined in, we may never see another one. You are one of the few who seems unable to accept that, though.

Second, some people just inherently don't want to hear bad news nor deal well with hearing dissenting points of view

Has nothing to do with "dissent." We welcome alternative points of view as long as they're substantive and respectfully expressed. That's not what you're doing.

This is an NDFB message board. The one thing that brings us all together is our shared love of the program. Reading criticism of something you love is unpleasant, so negative posts are held to a higher standard here than elsewhere. That's a standard that you and @PutuporShutup are not remotely close to meeting. Be substantive and respectful or get banned, simple as.

You can tell those types on message boards fairly easily as they reflexively respond to any type of critique as "overly negative" or "trolls" or "doom and gloom"

There are mods/ owners here that share your negativity. The difference is that their posts have substance, and don't invite the sort of low-value emotive responses that yours do.

They just attack the poster and not the post. Because frankly they don't really have any good point to refute--they just don't like hearing something that doesn't reflect their world view

Let's be clear about this. You're not some brave clear-eyed rationalist bringing the unvarnished truth to a bunch of Pollyannas here. You have not posted a single original thought on IE; it's all shit we've seen a thousand times before. You're just another middle- aged dude who can't deal constructively with his anxiety about the team, so you force us to read your emotionally driven contentless garbage. We aren't interested in serving as your personal support group.

Picture a toddler with his hands on his ears screaming "la la la"--thats them

The lack of self- awareness here is gobsmacking.

You and a couple other newbies have dragged this board down to the level of the paysite public boards recently, and I won't stand for it. Do better, or GTFO.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

The sky is falling mentality is by means new around here or around us ND fans in general, but there’s a handful of “new” posters that are making this site much more difficult to read at times lately.

It's like NDNation planned a hostile take over. Idk what else to think. It's been insufferable.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I'm trying to figure out if by mentioning IE by name, if Driskell unintentionally sent IE more traffic.

Or maybe he is trying to send in trolls to smoke us out...

 

[NDMD]

Are we sure it's not the same person? All these NDNites showed up after IRISH15 disappeared...

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

The best part of the NIL stuff is that a lot of parents are going to alienate their kids really quickly. A lot of kids are going to have relationships ruined with them paying all the tax and family members looking for handouts. On the Otha hand, they could just get gifted jobs at a booster's company.

A 5 min idea - Have legislation that treats NIL related income in it's own type (employment/investment etc) and have attribution rules where family members can't receive more than >$20K in yearly benefits. Maximum withdrawal of $100k with the exception of approved housing purchases, stops the kids that make tons from blowing the money all in one year unless it's for the purchase of a home. Could have legislation that has bank's offer NIL related bank accounts for players to securely receive payment and to track spending with financial advisor input. Who knows, I think the NCAA should take care of the wellbeing of the players first by putting safeguards in place of shitty family.

No. The gov’t should have absolutely no place in controlling how or when they spend their money. If they want to put every dime of it on black, that is their prerogative.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I don't like you

Me neither, but you have to admit his ratio of neg reps to posts is pretty damn impressive

 

[NDpendent]

I came to this site a very weeks ago as another source of info but it seems like every thread on these players is just everyone attacking each other. And now that I said that I am fully expecting everyone to call me a newbe and to GTFO instead of talking about Keon Keeley

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I came to this site a very weeks ago as another source of info but it seems like every thread on these players is just everyone attacking each other. And now that I said that I am fully expecting everyone to call me a newbe and to GTFO instead of talking about Keon Keeley

If you are bringing solid info (good or bad) using tangible thoughts and sources, no one will ever ask you to "GTFO." This board is actually pretty tolerable of differing opinions, IMO. This rant isn't directed at you, I just saw your post and didn't want you to think you're not welcome. We were all "new" posters at one point in time, and many of us stayed because we genuinely enjoyed this community and the banter about the program. The drivel these new guys (not you) are bringing here isn't banter in the slightest.

As Whiskey astutely pointed out, if you are just here to troll (again, not saying you have or intend to) you're going to wear out your welcome pretty quickly.

Keeley hasn't even decommitted yet and we have posters saying Freeman isn't cut out for the job? WTF kind of opinion is that? That's such a bad take it makes me question the emotional fortitude of the man behind the keyboard. These are 16-18 year old kids who are being wine and dined by Saban, Smart, Dabo, Day, etc. and now these "big 4," highly successful coaches get to throw a bag full of cash at these kids on top of it all.

There is always going to be turbulence in recruiting. But to bring whole threads into a meltdown state is just asinine and it needs to stop. That's all we're trying to say.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I'm trying to figure out if by mentioning IE by name, if Driskell unintentionally sent IE more traffic.

Or maybe he is trying to send in trolls to smoke us out...

Man, there might be something to this theory

 

[anarin]

I'm trying to figure out if by mentioning IE by name, if Driskell unintentionally sent IE more traffic.

Or maybe he is trying to send in trolls to smoke us out...

The trolls have been growing for sure lol.

 

[dublinirish]

I'm trying to figure out if by mentioning IE by name, if Driskell unintentionally sent IE more traffic.

Or maybe he is trying to send in trolls to smoke us out...

The Streisand effect?

 

[Domina Nostra]

This is an NDFB message board. The one thing that brings us all together is our shared love of the program. Reading criticism of something you love is unpleasant, so negative posts are held to a higher standard here than elsewhere. That's a standard that you and @PutuporShutup are not remotely close to meeting. Be substantive and respectful or get banned, simple as. . . .

Let's be clear about this. You're not some brave clear-eyed rationalist bringing the unvarnished truth to a bunch of Pollyannas here. You have not posted a single original thought on IE; it's all shit we've seen a thousand times before. You're just another middle- aged dude who can't deal constructively with his anxiety about the team, so you force us to read your emotionally driven contentless garbage. We aren't interested in serving as your personal support group.

Haha! Best post ever. This is so true.

Since we have ZERO control over any of it, we don't owe it to the cosmos to be miserable as fans until ND has a NC roster. Maybe if we were the AD or HC, but not as rando fans.

 

[mcbri014]

You guys remember the days when Dale and Lucky would provide the bulk of updates and occasional argument? Yeah, that was cool.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

I'm trying to figure out if by mentioning IE by name, if Driskell unintentionally sent IE more traffic.

Or maybe he is trying to send in trolls to smoke us out...

Very solid theory. I’m just not sure Driskell had anyone listening to him. We need Reaper to use his CIA spook skills to start tracking bank records and IP addresses asap.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

You guys remember the days when Dale and Lucky would provide the bulk of updates and occasional argument? Yeah, that was cool.

Those were the days

 

[indianamouse]

First, a lot of fans just don't realize what needs to occur on the trail for ND to be a legit perennial national championship contender

Even if ND does keep Keeley and Bowen, thats like pissing into the ocean compared to Bama, Georgia, and OSU

Additional guys like M'Pemba, Downs, D Moore, J Moore, Tate, etc needed to be added too

And then those results would need to be replicated in the next two classes as well

Second, some people just inherently don't want to hear bad news nor deal well with hearing dissenting points of view

You can tell those types on message boards fairly easily as they reflexively respond to any type of critique as "overly negative" or "trolls" or "doom and gloom"

They just attack the poster and not the post. Because frankly they don't really have any good point to refute--they just don't like hearing something that doesn't reflect their world view

Picture a toddler with his hands on his ears screaming "la la la"--thats them

I don’t have a problem with the criticism, but everything is negative to you. Freeman’s coaching, recruiting, and posturing all seem to be wrong in your eyes. What is good about the program to you?

 

[NDdomer2]

I'm trying to figure out if by mentioning IE by name, if Driskell unintentionally sent IE more traffic.

Or maybe he is trying to send in trolls to smoke us out...

I am convinced some of these new handles are the same individual.