'22 MI OLB Joshua Burnham (Notre Dame Signee)

Dale

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There is a guy on Twitter who has a theory on building a portal roster called midrange theory that basically you don’t want to overload your roster with contributors. You need stars (dunks) and high potential guys (3s). Not to be overpaying for mid range jumpers. Burnham is a midrange jumper.
 

JerseyIrishMan

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There is a guy on Twitter who has a theory on building a portal roster called midrange theory that basically you don’t want to overload your roster with contributors. You need stars (dunks) and high potential guys (3s). Not to be overpaying for mid range jumpers. Burnham is a midrange jumper.
Based on results I think it's fair to say Cignetti knows what he is doing, no?
 
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ND88

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There is a guy on Twitter who has a theory on building a portal roster called midrange theory that basically you don’t want to overload your roster with contributors. You need stars (dunks) and high potential guys (3s). Not to be overpaying for mid range jumpers. Burnham is a midrange jumper.
I know we've been overusing IU as the standard example, but if you had to quickly assess their roster going into the semifinals, how would their starting portal transfers measure out using this theory? There's no snark on the question. Is Cignetti just that good at coaching up mid range jumpers or did they haul in a bunch of players considered stars preseason?
 

arrowryan

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There is a guy on Twitter who has a theory on building a portal roster called midrange theory that basically you don’t want to overload your roster with contributors. You need stars (dunks) and high potential guys (3s). Not to be overpaying for mid range jumpers. Burnham is a midrange jumper.

Marsh must be a midrange jumper too. Don’t want!
 

Dale

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I know we've been overusing IU as the standard example, but if you had to quickly assess their roster going into the semifinals, how would their starting portal transfers measure out using this theory?

They got pounded by ND last year. They needed to add studs like Mendoza to get over the hump. Ponds is stud. Cooper and Sarratt as well. So sound proof positive to me.
 

JerseyIrishMan

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Based on results I think it’s fair to say Freeman knows what he is doing, no?

Cignetti doesn’t have a Traore or Young or Dunham on his roster. IUs needs are not NDs needs.
Duh. That doesn't make Burnham a "mid range jumper" is all I'm saying.
 

Dale

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Duh. That doesn't make Burnham a "mid range jumper" is all I'm saying.

Do you think he is a NFL/star player?

Do you think he is a young high potential player?

If not, go back to post one and try to read again.
 

JerseyIrishMan

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They got pounded by ND last year. They needed to add studs like Mendoza to get over the hump. Ponds is stud. Cooper and Sarratt as well. So sound proof positive to me.
Ponds Cooper and Sarratt are Cig guys from JMU that were on the team last year. Who has really made the difference for them was adding Coogan and other guys on both lines.
 

stlnd01

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I know we've been overusing IU as the standard example, but if you had to quickly assess their roster going into the semifinals, how would their starting portal transfers measure out using this theory?
I can't claim to be intimately familiar with their roster, but most of their guys seem well-coached and well-developed but lacking the elite talent that elite programs look for in starters.
Like, Mendoza's good but if he were THAT good, Ohio State or Georgia or Oregon would have thrown big money at him (like Oregon did at Dante Moore). They preferred who the guys they already had, so he was available to Indiana, where he has thrived. If Coogan were THAT good, we'd have promised him a starting job. Instead we let him walk and both he and Indiana are better off for it.
I guess it's basically same with Burnham.
 

JerseyIrishMan

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I can't claim to be intimately familiar with their roster, but most of their guys seem well-coached and well-developed but lacking the elite talent that elite programs look for in starters.
Like, Mendoza's good but if he were THAT good, Ohio State or Georgia or Oregon would have thrown big money at him (like Oregon did at Dante Moore). They preferred who the guys they already had, so he was available to Indiana. If Coogan were THAT good, we'd have promised him a starting job. Instead we let him walk and both he and Indiana are better off for it.
I guess it's basically same with Burnham.
UGA was recruiting Mendoza in the portal.
 
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ND88

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I can't claim to be intimately familiar with their roster, but most of their guys seem well-coached and well-developed but lacking the elite talent that elite programs look for in starters.
Like, Mendoza's good but if he were THAT good, Ohio State or Georgia or Oregon would have thrown big money at him (like Oregon did at Dante Moore). They preferred who the guys they already had, so he was available to Indiana. If Coogan were THAT good, we'd have promised him a starting job. Instead we let him walk and both he and Indiana are better off for it.
I guess it's basically same with Burnham.
Tbh, I don't know much about their roster or coaches either, but as you infer, Cignetti and his positional coaches must have something elite they are doing coaching-wise that is more than just portal acquisition. Of course, they are also striking lightening in a bottle with guys like Mendoza, who was overlooked by most major programs. It will be interesting to measure out their portal acquisitions from this year when compared to last year.
 

IAIrish

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Bro, what? ND had better ends than Burnham.

Indiana and Pat Kuntz have taken guys like that and turned them into studs.
My only pushback is that Bryce Young has to demonstrate more consistency before I can say that he's obviously better than Burnham. It's undeniable that Bryce has more upside, but it has to be realized starting immediately. There were stretches this year when a healthy Burnham was the better player. Bryce has to pick it up and start to dominate. Especially with as much attention as Traore will get across from him. The opportunities are going to be there.
Burnham was objectively better last year. This is the gambit good teams are going to be up against in this era and it's incumbent on Freeman and Martin to choose wisely. Thus far, they've cast their lot on talent and upside. As Ontario rightly stated, Young needs to come into his own in his true Junior year. No ifs or buts.

On the other side, Burnham was a top 100 recruit who was injured for big stretches each of the past two seasons. I'm of the mind that we never saw the full extent of his talent in the blue&gold. I wish him well, but part of me will be salty AF if he balls out for 14 games for little brother next season.
 

Crazy Balki

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Burnham was objectively better last year. This is the gambit good teams are going to be up against in this era and it's incumbent on Freeman and Martin to choose wisely. Thus far, they've cast their lot on talent and upside. As Ontario rightly stated, Young needs to come into his own in his true Junior year. No ifs or buts.

On the other side, Burnham was a top 100 recruit who was injured for big stretches each of the past two seasons. I'm of the mind that we never saw the full extent of his talent in the blue&gold. I wish him well, but part of me will be salty AF if he balls out for 14 games for little brother next season.
Bryce Young played more snaps this year than Burnham.

Young didn't have the absolutely insane elite AA level production that some thought he would, but he was far from average.

Burnham wanted to start and see more snaps. That wasn't going to happen with Young and Traore here. It is what it is.
 

IRISHDODGER

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Burnham was objectively better last year. This is the gambit good teams are going to be up against in this era and it's incumbent on Freeman and Martin to choose wisely. Thus far, they've cast their lot on talent and upside. As Ontario rightly stated, Young needs to come into his own in his true Junior year. No ifs or buts.

On the other side, Burnham was a top 100 recruit who was injured for big stretches each of the past two seasons. I'm of the mind that we never saw the full extent of his talent in the blue&gold. I wish him well, but part of me will be salty AF if he balls out for 14 games for little brother next season.
ND fans agree he was playing great down the stretch once he was healthy from the abductor injury. Reportedly, he was ready to go (in his mind) sooner than the coaches utilized him. Once he saw the field at BC and balled out he started the remainder of the year. I don’t think ND had much of a chance at keeping him if they thought Young was going to start or split reps. He thought he should be the starter which no one can blame. Hate to lose him but it was inevitable and not a money issue. Young has the upside & the better health track record.
 

irishjim

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I think Cignetti's approach works because the transfer kids are experienced. He doesn't have to adjust to learning curves as much .

Your odds are higher to succeed with experienced players who have been through a college S&C program and experienced the game for 3-4 years.

Is someone like a Burnham at this stage in his career likely to perform better than an incoming 4 star? I think most of the time, yes.

I don't think its a big surprise Indiana has succeeded with this method
 

InKellyWeTrust

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I can't see a spin in which losing Burnham to the portal and then him transferring to IU is a net positive for ND. Unless you get a clear cut upgrade in the portal to fill his position. Is Thompson that?
 

IRISHbluehen

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I can't see a spin in which losing Burnham to the portal and then him transferring to IU is a net positive for ND. Unless you get a clear cut upgrade in the portal to fill his position. Is Thompson that?
I don't think anyone would say it is a net positive but I don't understand the critique that this is some kind of grave indictment of roster management. ND wasn't able to keep a rising senior with NFL aspirations stuck behind a more talented player. That's simply the cost of doing business.
 

Huntr

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There is a guy on Twitter who has a theory on building a portal roster called midrange theory that basically you don’t want to overload your roster with contributors. You need stars (dunks) and high potential guys (3s). Not to be overpaying for mid range jumpers. Burnham is a midrange jumper.


What's the @ ?
 

FireJeffQuinn

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I don't think anyone would say it is a net positive but I don't understand the critique that this is some kind of grave indictment of roster management. ND wasn't able to keep a rising senior with NFL aspirations stuck behind a more talented player. That's simply the cost of doing business.
And the fact that he stuck around so long at ND is a confirmation of our culture and the value of the degree. At many other schools, he probably would have transferred earlier.
 

dang227

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I usually wish our guys the best, but this one pisses me off. I know he isn't a "starter", but he plays a ton. Seems shortsighted to me, considering what we expect to be next year. Its probably because he is going to Portal University that irritates me.
 
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