'22 IN OL Ashton Craig (Notre Dame Signee)

[NDIrish88]

Let's just see how this plays out as well. Singer stated he thinks ND could get 5 OL. Maybe Quinn can flip Shelton or maybe Fitzgerald comes back in the picture, who knows. It's another few months until NSD.

 

[ThePiombino]

Respectfully this is such a bad take. The logic on averaging together the rankings is beyond pointless. That’s literally not how it works on the field. Did Avajon’s 230 ranking to Kyle Hamilton’s 60, mean that we got two 145 S’s or we got an elite guy (first round draft pick type) and a depth guy? Which is exactly how it played out on the field, so far.

Bad how? In that it doesn't fall in line with your rhetoric? Obviously we're not trotting out a player that has a skill set equivalent to positional average ranking. But what IS happening is we have virtually no proven safety depth. You want to tell me that we've been in a good spot with safety recruiting as well the past few years? You can't, not with a straight face. I'm happy with the program overall, but there are still glaring holes. It's OK to admit that...

 

[BeauBenken]

From what I understand, schools are negatively recruiting Quinn.

And this understanding comes from?

 

[zelezo vlk]

And how exactly would that be effective? lol

 

[BobbyMac]

It would definitely be disappointing to see all of the 4-5* OV guys pick a different school. However, #1 it hasn’t happened yet and there’s still going to be some movement in those recruitments. #2 What is Jeff Quinn supposed to do? Also, Evan Flood put in a CB-4 for Schrauth. That’s not great but that’s not exactly a lock and you haven’t seen all the analysts flipping their CB’s just yet. I’m pretty sure the standard CB is a CB-6 of which I see the most of. So I’m not sure Evan Flood is hearing that he’s totally committing to Wisconsin.

Back to what is Jeff Quinn supposed to do. He offered 22 OLinemen this cycle. 20 are 4*’s or higher which is a ton. 2 committed and he got 6 for official visits on campus. He also got George Fitzpatrick on campus for a self-guided tour and maybe should’ve pushed harder for a late June OV as a higher ranked plan B. He also pushed for Drew Shelton to decommit from Penn State and visit ND (don’t know if that’s ongoing or if he’s sticking to PSU). I can’t really find any guys ND should’ve offered as 4* dudes who fit ND’s profile. Maybe only Fisher Anderson from Nashville, TN. 6’7” .9128 4* with OV’s to Northwestern (6/4), Virginia (6/11), UNC (6/18), Stanford (6/25). I can’t really fault Quinn for not swinging for the fences because he’s knocked on every possible door to get ND the best class they could possibly get. Maybe there’s more at play where’s he’s not getting enough help from Rees or BK or some of the recruiting staff. I’m not sure. The bottom line is I complained of Hiestand being too selective, not recruiting enough and passing on tons of guys. How can I complain about a guy who’s essentially the opposite and works his a** off to get the best class. It’ll be disappointing if they can’t get any of the visitors but we still have a few weeks before all the decisions have been made.

Thanks for bringing this up... Folks get mad at Quinn for "getting beat" more than HH did. Well, he offers 2x+ more prospects than HH and he goes after bigger fish. More guys are going to end up elsewhere. I love that Quinn isn't afraid to throw offers around and get on the phone. That's something that HH couldn't be bothered with. And when you're out on the road offering/recruiting more guys, you learn about the next generation of recruits who are on their way in the next year or two.

Also, good eye on Anderson. I've been digging around on him again. He's perfectly set up for ND to swoop in on.

 

[Irish du Nord]

Bad how? In that it doesn't fall in line with your rhetoric? Obviously we're not trotting out a player that has a skill set equivalent to positional average ranking. But what IS happening is we have virtually no proven safety depth. You want to tell me that we've been in a good spot with safety recruiting as well the past few years? You can't, not with a straight face. I'm happy with the program overall, but there are still glaring holes. It's OK to admit that...

Respectfully as well, I think LL laid out exactly why he thinks it's a bad take: we've had a bunch of great OLine recruits (including in '22) and the fact we have depth pieces in addition to them doesn't diminish their quality. Especially since some of these lower rated recruits can turn out to be quality role players/developmental players.

And as far as safety, you're right. But the failures don't fall on taking Litchfield Ajavon, they fall on not getting anybody in the '20 class and only one guy in '21. That's a position group where we need bodies period.

I hate losing Schrauth etc. just like you, but I'm no feeling terrible about our OLine room cause we missed on some guys and had to take a low rated high upside guy instead.

 

[Luckylucci]

Bad how? In that it doesn't fall in line with your rhetoric? Obviously we're not trotting out a player that has a skill set equivalent to positional average ranking. But what IS happening is we have virtually no proven safety depth. You want to tell me that we've been in a good spot with safety recruiting as well the past few years? You can't, not with a straight face. I'm happy with the program overall, but there are still glaring holes. It's OK to admit that...

What? This has nothing to do with what I responded too. You are averaging player rankings together in one of the dumbest exercises ever. Kyle Hamilton is only 1 player, correct. But he’s also an elite player. Bringing in him with Avajon doesn’t make that less true. Just like bringing in Craig with Chan and Tanona doesn’t make them less of blue chip prospects, themselves.

Just like Ehrensberger doesn’t make Botelho or Mills less productive players be his shear existence on the roster.

 

[Dale]

And how exactly would that be effective? lol

Only thing I can imagine and isn’t really a dig at Quinn is hey look at each depth chart, you can get immediate PT here or may have to wait 3-4 there. Also prospects can look up that Blake Fisher kid. But a PT negative recruit is a tale as old as time

 

[Trait Expectations]

Bad how? In that it doesn't fall in line with your rhetoric? Obviously we're not trotting out a player that has a skill set equivalent to positional average ranking. But what IS happening is we have virtually no proven safety depth. You want to tell me that we've been in a good spot with safety recruiting as well the past few years? You can't, not with a straight face. I'm happy with the program overall, but there are still glaring holes. It's OK to admit that...

Lol, the goalposts need a break from all this movement. Averaging the players together to determine whether or not a class contains contributors or if it was a success is not a good idea. T

Look at what Quinn brought in last year. Look at the year before (I think we needed one additional player). We can talk about the current class when it's completed, I'll wait to see how it pans out.

No one in this thread argued safety recruiting has been perfect. They argued a single class shouldn't be averaged across the players to determine the quality because it's incredibly misleading.

 

[Luckylucci]

I mean, if we played this silly game then the combination of Ehrensberger, Mills, and Botelho is 553 and shouldn’t even be on the field. But we know that really, it’s 2 NFL level players and a depth guy. It makes zero sense.

 

[Trait Expectations]

And how exactly would that be effective? lol

He only got 4 of his OL drafted last year but he had 5 draft-able players. And he took a projected all american as a grad transfer so he hates his recruits. He's coached so well the past couple years that Driskell is running out of ammo.

Somethign like that

 

[BobbyMac]

He only got 4 of his OL drafted last year but he had 5 draft-able players. And he took a projected all american as a grad transfer so he hates his recruits. He's coached so well the past couple years that Driskell is running out of ammo.

Somethign like that

Love it! Grabbed a Triple Espresso and ran with it...



I think I found the source. Transcript from a phone call:

"Jeff Quinn lol... Don't get me started on that hack. Do not go there unless you want to end up like Hiestand's linemen they put in the NFL last year. Do you know not one of them was the first overall pick??? Coming out of HS, Harry Hiestand signed them and he personally told Mel Kiper they'd go 1-2-3-4 in the draft. Did they? NO! Quinn ruined them! I hear the Eichenberger kid had to get a side job selling appliances at Best Buy to pay back his $400k in student loans he ran up at ND. Yeah that's right. Oh Quinn didn't tell you ND doesn't give out full ride scholarships like everyone else? Figures, he's such a liar!"

Then there's that kid he intentionally slow played in 2018 just to mess with his head. Kid was going to go to Michigan and be an All American left tackle but he fell for Quinn's BS and as soon as he gets to Fort Wayne, he turned him into a Center... do you wanna end up a center kid? You do understand they make less millions than OT's and that's a fact!"

"Do you know his recruiting is so bad, he had to sign a transfer from a DII school... and he kicked off one of his seniors to make room for him! I Chit you not son!"

"What about Jason Kelce, ever heard of him? Do you know Quinn ruined a lucrative insurance salesman career with Geico by changing him from a walk on LB/FB into an OL. Yes, THAT Geico... the one with Flo and the lizard, can you believe it. Well thankfully someone who knew what they were doing in the NFL stepped in and made him into an All-Pro. If not for that coach, think of the money he would have lost not bundling home & auto insurance!"

"You know he messed his brother up too? He was the #1 HS QB on ESPN and could've been the next Big Ben but Quinn turned him into a TE and now he's kicking around the NFL somewhere... I think on a practice squad to be honest. Why do that to a kid? He had a big arm but hands of stone and ran like a penguin, he was never gonna be an NFL TE!"

"Then there's the one time he turned a champion HS sprinter who was also a great WR... and by great, I mean like the white Randy Moss! Well he converts him into a blocking TE and then.. get this... with the help of this mad scientist / body builder guy named Longo, they turned him into an offensive lineman and as great as he was at one point in HS, he NEVER made 1st team-All Pro in the NFL. I'm not kidding, never ONCE! I mean seriously, this guy is an incompetent hack!"

"Now enough about his horrible past of developing players, the reason you don't want to go to ND now is, he'll bury you behind his core group of 4 favorites that he's guaranteed he'll start for the next 3-4 years. Nevermind they were all 2 stars but you'll never get to compete with them because he got paid off by the same guy who did the Varsity Blue scandal. So even after they get rid of those two All American seniors in next year's draft, you're fighting for one open spot the next 3 years and that's probably going to that NFL guy's kid who they signed when he was 6-3/225 lbs and then immediately sent him to Balco's secret facility in Eastern Germany. He's already 6-9/380 and runs a 3.9/40! He's a dirty cheater I tell you! You're not a cheater are you kid? You just don't seem like the kinda kid who would want to play for a communist. I'll just leave you with these proven facts: Did you know he coordinated the storming the capital and stole the football with all of the nuclear codes. He sold that football to Putin then bought Jeffery Epstein's Island the day after so he could go back there and eat more babies! I wouldn't lie to you about any of this"

 

[Sea Turtle]

And this understanding comes from?

I was seeing it on various boards and then Driskell said it on the last couple of podcasts. I know not everybody likes him but hes far more connected than most of us and he always answers my questions thoughtfully and intelligently. I really like his style and he's very relatable.

 

[Irish du Nord]

I mean, if we played this silly game then the combination of Ehrensberger, Mills, and Botelho is 553 and shouldn’t even be on the field. But we know that really, it’s 2 NFL level players and a depth guy. It makes zero sense.

And that's an eyebrow raising depth guy, to say the least.

 

[BeauBenken]

I was seeing it on various boards and then Driskell said it on the last couple of podcasts. I know not everybody likes him but hes far more connected than most of us and he always answers my questions thoughtfully and intelligently. I really like his style and he's very relatable.

Yea, but like, what are they using to negatively recruit against Quinn if that is the case?

I think people tend to not like Driskell much because he has a poor relationship with the staff especially compared to all of the other ND media and that is visible in how he reports on things.

 

[DONALDIII]

Yea, but like, what are they using to negatively recruit against Quinn if that is the case?

I think people tend to not like Driskell much because he has a poor relationship with the staff especially compared to all of the other ND media and that is visible in how he reports on things.

He's also just an asshole. He says parents don't like him, coaches don't like him, and other media don't like him. You can't have that many people hate you and you be an okay person. He's a dick.

 

[BobbyMac]

I was seeing it on various boards and then Driskell said it on the last couple of podcasts. I know not everybody likes him but hes far more connected than most of us and he always answers my questions thoughtfully and intelligently. I really like his style and he's very relatable.

But what does BD think they are saying during the neg recruiting? I mean, everybody neg recruits. It's comparing the positive and negative variables of each program's features & benefits

John Wooden's the last guy who didn't need to negative recruit and he did it at the end regarding Knight.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I was seeing it on various boards and then Driskell said it on the last couple of podcasts. I know not everybody likes him but hes far more connected than most of us and he always answers my questions thoughtfully and intelligently. I really like his style and he's very relatable.

I hate his style, he's arrogant.

 

[Sea Turtle]

But what does BD think they are saying during the neg recruiting? I mean, everybody neg recruits. It's comparing the positive and negative variables of each program's features & benefits

John Wooden's the last guy who didn't need to negative recruit and he did it at the end regarding Knight.

A couple of you asked this but can only quote one for some reason.

I think the gist is that Quinn is Kelly's buddy who wasn't qualified and has been using Hiestands players and a G.A. who played for him.

Now those players and Watt are gone so how good is he really?

Also, I guess the players wanted the guy who is now coaching the Bucs O line to be their coach but Kelly picked his boy.

This is why I say that this season is huge for Quinn.

 

[Irish#1]

Most of those guys may have been HH's, but they still required the proper coaching to get drafted where they did.

 

[calvegas04]

I think the gist is that Quinn is Kelly's buddy who wasn't qualified and has been using Hiestands players and a G.A. who played for him.

HH was fired from is last OL job, what does that say about his coaching?

 

[BobbyMac]

A couple of you asked this but can only quote one for some reason.

I think the gist is that Quinn is Kelly's buddy who wasn't qualified and has been using Hiestands players and a G.A. who played for him.

Now those players and Watt are gone so how good is he really?

Also, I guess the players wanted the guy who is now coaching the Bucs O line to be their coach but Kelly picked his boy.

This is why I say that this season is huge for Quinn.

Ok thanks. So this is BD speculating on what other coaches could be saying. That's cool... that's their job.

And the response to that is Joe Staley, The Kelce's and a few other UC players, Jarrett Patterson, The real #1 O Lineman in last year's class and the only All American who transferred last year chose Quinn to make him better.

And in regards to Hiestand's 4 draft picks: Kraemer and Hainsey split a season at RT for Harry while the Core 4 played 3 years each for Quinn (Banks played 2.5 years after taking over for Bars). So Harry gets credit for landing them but the top two, Banks and Eichenberg, never started for Harry. Harry bought the lot and graded it, then Quinn built the 4 houses.

Let's just throw Kahlil Mack's name in there because we can.

That doesn't even cover the advantages of playing for an OL coach who has been a successful OC.

Any coach trying to downgrade Quinn's resume runs the risk of getting his throat cut. Because no ones done more elite development at more stops, over a long span of time than Quinn.

And just wait until this Core 4 is destroying folks in '23.

 

[NDdomer2]

HH was fired from is last OL job, what does that say about his coaching?

2 of his last 3

 

[Trait Expectations]

I was seeing it on various boards and then Driskell said it on the last couple of podcasts. I know not everybody likes him but hes far more connected than most of us and he always answers my questions thoughtfully and intelligently. I really like his style and he's very relatable.

Lol. You just lost all credibility with each successive statement above.

And that's probably why I was confrontational. I have a bullshit - aka - Driskell - meter and I can sense when someone's "opinions" have been tainted by him

My apologies to you and your brain for finding him relatable. We all have our hang-ups

 

[Irish du Nord]

Ok thanks. So this is BD speculating on what other coaches could be saying. That's cool... that's their job.

And the response to that is Joe Staley, The Kelce's and a few other UC players, Jarrett Patterson, The real #1 O Lineman in last year's class and the only All American who transferred last year chose Quinn to make him better.

And in regards to Hiestand's 4 draft picks: Kraemer and Hainsey split a season at RT for Harry while the Core 4 played 3 years each for Quinn (Banks played 2.5 years after taking over for Bars). So Harry gets credit for landing them but the top two, Banks and Eichenberg, never started for Harry. Harry bought the lot and graded it, then Quinn built the 4 houses.

Let's just throw Kahlil Mack's name in there because we can.

That doesn't even cover the advantages of playing for an OL coach who has been a successful OC.

Any coach trying to downgrade Quinn's resume runs the risk of getting his throat cut. Because no ones done more elite development at more stops, over a long span of time than Quinn.

And just wait until this Core 4 is destroying folks in '23.

Crus can I get this framed? Who needs a Youtube hype video to get you ready for the season when you can just go on IE

 

[Irish#1]

HH was fired from is last OL job, what does that say about his coaching?

The list of coaches that haven't been fired is pretty short compared to those that have.

 

[Irish#1]

Ok thanks. So this is BD speculating on what other coaches could be saying. That's cool... that's their job.

And the response to that is Joe Staley, The Kelce's and a few other UC players, Jarrett Patterson, The real #1 O Lineman in last year's class and the only All American who transferred last year chose Quinn to make him better.

And in regards to Hiestand's 4 draft picks: Kraemer and Hainsey split a season at RT for Harry while the Core 4 played 3 years each for Quinn (Banks played 2.5 years after taking over for Bars). So Harry gets credit for landing them but the top two, Banks and Eichenberg, never started for Harry. Harry bought the lot and graded it, then Quinn built the 4 houses.

Let's just throw Kahlil Mack's name in there because we can.

That doesn't even cover the advantages of playing for an OL coach who has been a successful OC.

Any coach trying to downgrade Quinn's resume runs the risk of getting his throat cut. Because no ones done more elite development at more stops, over a long span of time than Quinn.

And just wait until this Core 4 is destroying folks in '23.

Cliff notes version.

Most of those guys may have been HH's, but they still required the proper coaching to get drafted where they did.

 

[BrownerandFry]

Guys like Carson Hinzman and others I wouldn’t phrase as “whiffs” since we were never expected to land them.

The only whiff would not be getting Schrauth plus flipping the script on just one of them.

The other factor here is it’s almost a lock that someone will earn a offer from camp each year, Craig happens to be one.

Drue Tranquill, famously, was noticed by Kelly during a camp and Kelly pulled rank and mandated that he be given a scholarship. that worked out.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Driskell said he's up to 283 lbs now.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

I was seeing it on various boards and then Driskell said it on the last couple of podcasts. I know not everybody likes him but hes far more connected than most of us and he always answers my questions thoughtfully and intelligently. I really like his style and he's very relatable.

By connected you mean grabbing other peoples work, spinning things he reads on message boards, and subscribing to all the paid sites for his recruiting info? and if you mean to say "connected" as in Connected to the Internet, then yes you are correct.