'21 NC RB Will Shipley (Clemson Verbal)

[Rack Em]

Someone teach Tommy to dance. Problem solved.

 

[irishandy]

How has Clemson been recruiting Shipley compared to ND?

 

[Irish YJ]

How has Clemson been recruiting Shipley compared to ND?

Well, NewSpring Church has been a lot more helpful than the Vatican....

Someone teach Tommy to dance. Problem solved.

Does this count? Looks like the Cowboy Dance

 

[Chicago Domer]

New name for TR “RidemTommy”

 

[Bluto]

Comparing coaching at ND to coaching at Clemson isn’t apples to apples and I hope it never is.

Based on his success everywhere he has been if Kelly was able to operate a program with basically zero restrictions ala Clemson (I mean they got caught redhanded with PED’s and faced pretty much zero consequences) I think he would have won a Natty by now and or been a perennial playoff and BCS contender.

When you consider the travel schedule, the makeup of and the teams on the schedule year in and year out, the academic restrictions, the academic demands on the players, the lower tolerance for bad behavior in general, the isolated location and religious focus what Kelly has done is pretty impressive. If one college game in the Big 12 plays out differently in 2012 he’s likely in the NFL and has a statue at ND.

 

[phork]

Comparing coaching at ND to coaching at Clemson isn’t apples to apples and I hope it never is.

Based on his success everywhere he has been if Kelly was able to operate a program with basically zero restrictions ala Clemson (I mean they got caught redhanded with PED’s and faced pretty much zero consequences) I think he would have won a Natty by now and or been a perennial playoff and BCS contender.

When you consider the travel schedule, the makeup of and the teams on the schedule year in and year out, the academic restrictions, the academic demands on the players, the lower tolerance for bad behavior in general, the isolated location and religious focus what Kelly has done is pretty impressive. If one college game in the Big 12 plays out differently in 2012 he’s likely in the NFL and has a statue at ND.

I think he'd have gone to the NFL and crashed and burned his way back to college.

 

[Valpodoc85]

I think it is naive to think Dabo's success is lower academic standards and PEDs. Players want to play for him, he is successful and has become the program to beat. I suspect our lack of success is more money than academic standards/location. Given the program now has its own board and budget oversight things seem to be changing

 

[Chicago Domer]

We were having the same discussions before Lou holts came. Notre Dame could never win again. Then everything changed. Would the right “coach make ND a champion again? What does everyone think.

 

[T-Boone]

I think Dabo or the right coach would be able to convince the powers that be to make the changes that need making. Didn't Lou convince the school to allow some academically disadvantaged in, thusly allowing Tony Rice in. That said I am in the BK is great camp.
I still think we get Will Shipley.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I think it is naive to think Dabo's success is lower academic standards and PEDs. Players want to play for him, he is successful and has become the program to beat. I suspect our lack of success is more money than academic standards/location. Given the program now has its own board and budget oversight things seem to be changing

I don't think it's naive at all. It's not that Dabo doesn't have all those qualities you mentioned, but when not one, not two, but three of your players pop positive for PEDs in the same period, it certainly calls into question the legitimacy of the success he's had.

Gene Stallings was by all accounts an excellent coach and recruiter, but his reputation will forever be tainted by the Antonio Langham scandal.

It's what I like to call the Hansen TCAP logic. Chris Hansen would catch child predators, who a majority would respond that they've never done this before. Most of the time, they are lying and have met or chatted online with underage teens multiple times and even sometimes were caught multiple times by the pedo-slayer.

When you're caught cheating once, your credibility is permanently black-marked. You no longer hold the trust of the public. That is, at least, you SHOULD no longer have the trust of the public. But of course, nowadays, the NCAA is perfectly content with maintaining the status quo and sweeping things under the rug, while taking random swings at schools just to keep up the facade that they care about integrity.

 

[Valpodoc85]

College recruiting is about building relationships. This takes money. The OSU, Alabama, Clemsons of this world spend large amounts of money evaluating talent at a pretty early age. They get the 5 star guys because they have been taking to them since 6-7th grade. To that end I think ND has started down that path. The money became available when the budget process was moved to a different board. If Clemson has been taking with Shipley since 6th grade and we've only been at it the last 3-4, I think he winds up at Clemson. Hopefully that will not be the case moving forward

 

[Luckylucci]

I think it is naive to think Dabo's success is lower academic standards and PEDs. Players want to play for him, he is successful and has become the program to beat. I suspect our lack of success is more money than academic standards/location. Given the program now has its own board and budget oversight things seem to be changing

True, but I also think it’s naive to think there aren’t significant benefits to those programs and how they operate. BK took ND to the NCG in 2012, going 12-0 during the regular season. The next year the returning starting QB was suspended for the year. That would NEVER happen at Clemson, Bama, FSU, etc. which makes it very hard to judge just how good or great those coaches would be at ND. And it’s easy to say that only mattered to the 13’ or 14’ season but those schools will remind these kids of that and other situations like it for a long time.

 

[Crazy Balki]

College recruiting is about building relationships. This takes money. The OSU, Alabama, Clemsons of this world spend large amounts of money evaluating talent at a pretty early age. They get the 5 star guys because they have been taking to them since 6-7th grade. To that end I think ND has started down that path. The money became available when the budget process was moved to a different board. If Clemson has been taking with Shipley since 6th grade and we've only been at it the last 3-4, I think he winds up at Clemson. Hopefully that will not be the case moving forward

By most accounts, that's not the case right now.

If our relationships weren't stronger than Clemson's with Shipley, I don't think he's still deciding at this point. He probably would've picked Clemson already.

 

[Valpodoc85]

Oh I think we've changed the way we play the game and that's why were still in the running. Time will tell

 

[ThePiombino]

Oh I think we've changed the way we play the game and that's why were still in the running. Time will tell

I think this has more to do with Will being who he is than ND being what it is tbh.

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[Valpodoc85]

At this point all we're hearing is from Will. Appears he is taking the process seriously. But to my other point, Clemson can tell recruits to shut down the process after they have committed. Kelly wanted to do that several years ago and it didn't go as well. Dabo can do that not just because of recent program success but because of his process. It appears Kelly is adapting and changing our recruiting process. One of the things I like about Kelly is his ability to adapt as things change. I think the only reason Shipley isn't committed to Clemson is because of this.

 

[irishandy]

College football recruiting has changed in so many ways...does the #1 overall recruit Jimmy Clausen commit to Notre Dame for the 2021 class? Does Manti Teo's last minute prayer get him to Notre Dame's 2021 class? Does Stephon Tuitt recommit to Notre Dame's 2021 class?

Recruiting gives us fans a quicker headache than it did 5 years ago; heck sometimes 5 minutes ago. Much like the game changing so is this aspect of the sport.

One thing that hasn't changed is how young these kids are when they are committing, kids will be kids.

Let's hope Will picks the Irish!

 

[Chicago Domer]

IMO

If we was sure it was Clemson he would shut it down and commit. He’d be fine with Dabo making him shut it down.

He isn’t committed to Clemson because he isn’t sure.

I don’t pretend to know where he is at with big ND vs Clemson

 

[ThePiombino]

Only reason he hasn't committed to Clemson yet is Fisher and Taylor. That's it. It's about Will doing his due diligence and being respectful to the effort those two have put in. The hope is that he has a "come to Jesus" moment if/when he ever gets to campus. But make no mistake about it -- if he shuts it down before then, he's 100% Clemson. I'll bet the house on it.

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[dad4aa]

Only reason he hasn't committed to Clemson yet is Fisher and Taylor. That's it. It's about Will doing his due diligence and being respectful to the effort those two have put in. The hope is that he has a "come to Jesus" moment if/when he ever gets to campus. But make no mistake about it -- if he shuts it down before then, he's 100% Clemson. I'll bet the house on it.

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Totally disagree. If he is all Clemson and is only delaying "out of respect" to Fisher and Taylor, the respectful thing would be to tell them early enough to devote their time to recruit other RBs. How is stringing a coach and player/friend along respectful? You act as if it is 99% Clemson and 1% ND when pretty much all reports are it is a toss-up.

 

[irishtrooper]

Totally disagree. If he is all Clemson and is only delaying "out of respect" to Fisher and Taylor, the respectful thing would be to tell them early enough to devote their time to recruit other RBs. How is stringing a coach and player/friend along respectful? You act as if it is 99% Clemson and 1% ND when pretty much all reports are it is a toss-up.

This makes so much more sense

 

[Luckylucci]

At this point all we're hearing is from Will. Appears he is taking the process seriously. But to my other point, Clemson can tell recruits to shut down the process after they have committed. Kelly wanted to do that several years ago and it didn't go as well. Dabo can do that not just because of recent program success but because of his process. It appears Kelly is adapting and changing our recruiting process. One of the things I like about Kelly is his ability to adapt as things change. I think the only reason Shipley isn't committed to Clemson is because of this.

Kelly and staff don’t take commitments if the prospect plans on taking more visits. A commitment to them means shutting down the process. If the prospect decides to take other visits after, they won’t kick the commit out but they recruit as if they are not part of the class, in most cases. Also, they do not take commitments from prospects that have never visited campus. Some of these could change with the current environment but no indication it has yet.

 

[BobbyMac]

Only reason he hasn't committed to Clemson yet is Fisher and Taylor. That's it.

It's about Will doing his due diligence and being respectful to the effort those two have put in. The hope is that he has a "come to Jesus" moment if/when he ever gets to campus. But make no mistake about it -- if he shuts it down before then, he's 100% Clemson. I'll bet the house on it.

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The Taylor portion of the equation isn't just a relationship though.

Taylor is the KEY to his NFL career. He's literally the only guy in history to turn a white RB into the best player in the modern NFL. And he did it at the other smartypants school to boot. Doesn't hurt McCaffrey plays 15 minutes from his house for probably Will's favorite team.

For all of Dabo's accolades he has CJ Spiller's ONE 1,000 yd season over the last decade. Dabo is a WR coach, his legacy has been built around two elite college QB's, he's trying to extend that with 5* DJ Ukulele in '21. Overall, Spiller and Gallman are NFL underachievers. And Travis Etienne hasn't done it at the NFL level yet so he's a WIP. Dabo has no guarantee he can make Will into a nfl player. He's not the coach of Georgia. On top of that, he's loaded the room with more talent to overcome.

All he can sell him is a 2.5 hr car ride and the better chance of winning a NC... and that 100% hinges on DJ Ukulele being elite in college, if he's not they slide back to the Georgia/Oklahoma also rans.

Bottom line...

IF he means what he's said matters to him, he should be Irish.

 

[ThePiombino]

Totally disagree. If he is all Clemson and is only delaying "out of respect" to Fisher and Taylor, the respectful thing would be to tell them early enough to devote their time to recruit other RBs. How is stringing a coach and player/friend along respectful? You act as if it is 99% Clemson and 1% ND when pretty much all reports are it is a toss-up.

The Taylor portion of the equation isn't just a relationship though.

Taylor is the KEY to his NFL career. He's literally the only guy in history to turn a white RB into the best player in the NFL. And he did it at the other smartypants school to boot. Doesn't hurt McCaffrey plays 15 minutes from his house for probably Will's favorite team.

For all of Dabo's accolades he has CJ Spiller's ONE 1,000 yd season over the last decade. Dabo is a WR coach, his legacy has been built around two elite college QB's, he's trying to extend that with 5* DJ Ukulele in '21. Overall, Spiller and Gallman are NFL underachievers. And Travis Etienne hasn't done it at the NFL level yet so he's a WIP. Dabo has no guarantee he can make Will into a nfl player. He's not the coach of Georgia. On top of that, he's loaded the room with more talent to overcome.

All he can sell him is a 2.5 hr car ride and the better chance of winning a NC... and that 100% hinges on DJ Ukulele being elite in college, if he's not they slide back to the Georgia/Oklahoma also rans.

Bottom line...

IF he means what he's said matters to him, he should be Irish.

All I'm saying is ND has a chance if we get him on campus, otherwise it's Clemson. Doesn't matter if it's 100/0 Clemson or 51/49 Clemson, it's still Clemson.

Agreed Taylor is our ace in the hole, but don't underestimate the work Fisher has put in. Dude earned himself an Edible Arrangement.

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[BobbyMac]

All I'm saying is ND has a chance if we get him on campus, otherwise it's Clemson. Doesn't matter if it's 100/0 Clemson or 51/49 Clemson, it's still Clemson.

Agreed Taylor is our ace in the hole, but don't underestimate the work Fisher has put in. Dude earned himself an Edible Arrangement.

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Why is this a law? While it often happens that the last visit gets the worm. When did the networks gain this power of self-fulfilling prophecy? And don't we have to take into account that because of Corona, business as usual isn't so usual?

He visited for SC with all the heavy lifters, they've done unprecedented online presentations recruiting has never seen before. Why isn't one visit good enough in these strange times?

We'll see soon enough. Time to unsubscribe from this thread. Reading the last 4 pages is like listening to President Clinton say, “It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

 

[ThePiombino]

For me it's more a matter of him having been to Clemson several times vs ND once.

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[IHateMarkMay]

IF he means what he's said matters to him, he should be Irish.

I feel like this happens every year. There are always a few guys who say a top education is a huge priority and then commit to a school where education is way down the list of priorities.

 

[irishandy]

If he hasn't committed to Clemson, then we still have a shot. He is keeping his recruitment open for _____ reason.

If ND felt like Will was toying with them I think ND would've moved on.

I still like ND's chances.

 

[Chicago Domer]

Go Irish beat Tigers! Just needed to do that.

 

[Luckylucci]

For me it's more a matter of him having been to Clemson several times vs ND once.

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We have to make sure we have our facts right here. I’m pretty sure he’s only been to Clemson twice.