2023 - State of the Recruiting Class

Dale

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Therefore you accept the ND limitations Kelly was concerned about??? Methinks so.

I don’t think there’s a single person out there that doesn’t accept ND has limitations recruiting that LSU does not. Not sure how you think that is some sort of gotcha. That’s literally everyone’s point. BK’s recruiting ability and effort at ND and LSU putting forth hypothetically the exact same thing will produce more recruiting results at LSU.
 
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MacIrish75

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I give the class grade an A-.

I think the best aspect of the class is that Freeman and his staff succeeded where Kelly often failed—contingencies for top tier recruits not following through with their commitment. Really only missed on filling Keeley’s spot, and that’s what keeps the class from a solid A.
 

Irish#1

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Mel Tucker lost 27 scholarship players to the portal at Michigan State when he got the job.

Brent Venables lost 17 at Oklahoma.

Virginia lost 20 when Tony Elliot came in.

TCU lost 15 in the transition to Sonny Dikes.

It’s OK if you don’t think it’s going to happen to ND. I’m hopeful the administration realizes it will though.
You're both going to your rooms if you don't stop it!
 

FDNYIrish1

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20 4 star players. 20. Top 10 class. Looking at the other 9, one of these things is not like the others. You can build an elite program with great depth across all positions if MF maintains this. The losses suck, but I’m sure our staff learned a lot about the new way of doing things.
 

NDpendent

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Therefore you accept the ND limitations Kelly was concerned about??? Methinks so.
Here is the thing, you sell to your strengths not your limitations. Sure we have limitations with NIL but there isn't another schools out their with Notre Dames prestige and education where you can still play football at a very elite level.
As Marcus Freeman said in his press conference yesterday, when was there another time when we landed a top 300 position player at literally every group. We have 24 guys who are listed at a 4 star on at lease one of the ranking services. Almost all are Composite 4 stars.
 

phillyirish

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Solid class but I think we’re overrating Freeman’s recruiting ability while underrating Kelly’s. Yea I said it. Kelly gets labeled a “lazy recruiter” yet he was doing An in home visit last year while he had a foot out the door. And his personality clearly hasn’t scared away recruits from LSU. Freeman for all his hype, basically just hit the previous ceiling for ND recruiting. Kelly left ND for LSU, and LSU continued to recruit to the LSU standard while ND continued to recruit to the ND standard. Both coaches reach #9 in their first full year recruiting classes at ND. I don’t really look to much into average rating comparison because if you look at the top 10 from 2011 compared to 2023, their is a solid 2-3 point composite difference for all the teams average player rating.

Basically nothing has changed, it’s hope that Carr is a stud (and sticks to his commitment) or bust for this program’s title chances.
 

Irishdrunk

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We now know though that BK could land high rated defensive recruits when his DC was a dog on the trail.

BK as a recruiter himself had one main job, to land a top QB and he largely gave up after getting burned a few times.
Ok so you give Freeman credit as DC but won’t recognize the issues last year with Rees telling his lateral Freeman that they didn’t need to recruit a QB. Got it.
 

T Town Tommy

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Solid class but I think we’re overrating Freeman’s recruiting ability while underrating Kelly’s. Yea I said it. Kelly gets labeled a “lazy recruiter” yet he was doing An in home visit last year while he had a foot out the door. And his personality clearly hasn’t scared away recruits from LSU. Freeman for all his hype, basically just hit the previous ceiling for ND recruiting. Kelly left ND for LSU, and LSU continued to recruit to the LSU standard while ND continued to recruit to the ND standard. Both coaches reach #9 in their first full year recruiting classes at ND. I don’t really look to much into average rating comparison because if you look at the top 10 from 2011 compared to 2023, their is a solid 2-3 point composite difference for all the teams average player rating.

Basically nothing has changed, it’s hope that Carr is a stud (and sticks to his commitment) or bust for this program’s title chances.
The thing that remains for me is simple: Kelly's classes finished well but he did miss on positional groupings within some of his classes. That caused some glaring holes that the Irish struggled with overcoming. Freeman looks as if he can recruit at a high level. What remains for him is the same... can he recruit to the actual needs of the roster or will he have glaring holes as Kelly did. Too early to tell IMO.
 

Irishdrunk

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Listen Freeman is a decent fellow. I want him to win but he didn’t win this year and he couldn’t close this Class like he should have. We nearly had a 300 point class and the it was picked apart a bit too much.

The news now is about Oregon, Miami, USC and Oklahoma- all with either rookie or fairly new HCs.

Losing 4 games - two of them of which are inexcusable is costly. I just don’t have confidence as Freeman as HC. He should let Rees go but I don’t think he has the gumption or even authority to do so.
 

TNUtoNotreDame

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Solid class but I think we’re overrating Freeman’s recruiting ability while underrating Kelly’s. Yea I said it. Kelly gets labeled a “lazy recruiter” yet he was doing An in home visit last year while he had a foot out the door. And his personality clearly hasn’t scared away recruits from LSU. Freeman for all his hype, basically just hit the previous ceiling for ND recruiting. Kelly left ND for LSU, and LSU continued to recruit to the LSU standard while ND continued to recruit to the ND standard. Both coaches reach #9 in their first full year recruiting classes at ND. I don’t really look to much into average rating comparison because if you look at the top 10 from 2011 compared to 2023, their is a solid 2-3 point composite difference for all the teams average player rating.

Basically nothing has changed, it’s hope that Carr is a stud (and sticks to his commitment) or bust for this program’s title chances.
I do think all things being equal MF is a better recruiter. But the hind winds he is facing are different. NIL and pay to play have really hurt us this year. If pay to play was not a thing MF would have dusted BK, but woulda coulda.
 

Old Man Mike

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The future is still the future so we are all BSing, but my hunch is that a young highly energetic and willing to go all over the place at all times Marcus, WILL marginally get better classes than an older Brian, who still works/worked hard. Both of these guys are good at recruiting. If Coach Freeman can look good on the field of play, his classes will be extra good. If not, they will look like Coach Kelly's because of the limitations they both faced/face. Unless something markedly goes wrong at LSU (which I highly doubt), Coach Kelly will recruit super classes there as he develops the limitless program. (Wish that some folks would get over this.) Coach Freeman is a good recruiter --- we need to win a little more on the field.
 

CanadalovesND

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Solid class but I think we’re overrating Freeman’s recruiting ability while underrating Kelly’s. Yea I said it. Kelly gets labeled a “lazy recruiter” yet he was doing An in home visit last year while he had a foot out the door. And his personality clearly hasn’t scared away recruits from LSU. Freeman for all his hype, basically just hit the previous ceiling for ND recruiting. Kelly left ND for LSU, and LSU continued to recruit to the LSU standard while ND continued to recruit to the ND standard. Both coaches reach #9 in their first full year recruiting classes at ND. I don’t really look to much into average rating comparison because if you look at the top 10 from 2011 compared to 2023, their is a solid 2-3 point composite difference for all the teams average player rating.

Basically nothing has changed, it’s hope that Carr is a stud (and sticks to his commitment) or bust for this program’s title chances.

The Kelly standard at ND was far less than what Freeman has done - just in terms of overall class ranking and cumulative player ratings. All it takes is a competent coach to have great recruiting success. LSU pretty much sells itself (Huge brand, past success, many NFL players at every position, playing in the SEC) and the certain academic requirements at LSU give it a larger recruiting pool of players to work with. Louisiana also has so much more talent than the state of Indiana, so Kelly doesn't need truly worry about national recruiting, when he can predominantly recruit regionally - Louisiana, Alabama, Texas & Georgia.

Kelly still doing his job with one foot out the door is the bare minimum that a coach can do. Every coach does it, even if they know or feel like they may be moving onto another job. That is not an outlier.

If you don't want to look at ratings, that's fine, I understand that it's not the only metric point to determine overall success, however, there is a clear difference between the effort, mindset, and determination that Freeman puts forth when it comes to recruiting than what Kelly had done. There have been so many instances of Kelly essentially only making contact as a "final closer", as opposed to the the main guy pushing and contacting the recruit weekly - as we've seen reported from various commitments. Freeman has been the larger driving force in most of these athletes recruitments.

It's possible that Kelly knew that certain barriers that would prevent him from recruiting to a consistently great standard. It's more than likely the case. But, Kelly got tired at a certain point. Maybe it's age related, and maybe he just felt the fatigue of it all.

Freeman acknowledges the limitations that he has to contend with at ND, but he doesn't ****ing care. He's not going to stop. He understands what needs to be done at ND to get the program on a consistent championship/playoff level. He still has a lot to learn about being a head coach and running a program, but he knows the importance of recruiting.
 

ThePiombino

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I give the class grade an A-.

I think the best aspect of the class is that Freeman and his staff succeeded where Kelly often failed—contingencies for top tier recruits not following through with their commitment. Really only missed on filling Keeley’s spot, and that’s what keeps the class from a solid A.
A- with ZERO instant impact players? I dunno. Hard to lose Moore, Keeley, and (to this point) P.Bowen and call it an A-. B, B+? I can get with that. The class is good. It's balanced, fills some needs, but not all. Not sure how you can grade that an A-.

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Free Manera

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I read an article on the Athletic the other day about Kelly recruiting in Louisiana. A bunch of the high school coaches they interviewed said they hadn't even met him yet, which was shocking in comparison to Orgeron who was always around their programs. The ones that did meet him said he was engaging and likeable, however that has never been the knock on him. In fact, his ability is what made his recruiting laziness so infuriating. If he just tried, he could have done a lot better.

It's the same old Kelly at LSU. He isn't going to work hard recruiting. He never has and he never will. The guy couldn't take 10 minutes to see an elite recruit DURING HIS OFFICIAL VISIT and that story isn't a one off; stuff like that happened a lot.

However, the difference now is that Kelly wisely got a ton of bayou boys on his staff that have connections. He will rely on them to recruit the state and he will maybe recruit a quarterback or something every year. That is all you need to do there.
 

MacIrish75

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A- with ZERO instant impact players? I dunno. Hard to lose Moore, Keeley, and (to this point) P.Bowen and call it an A-. B, B+? I can get with that. The class is good. It's balanced, fills some needs, but not all. Not sure how you can grade that an A-.

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Traditionally an “A” grade means excellent. I think this class is just shy of excellent, because I agree it lacks an instant-impact type of player. However, I think the amount of quality pieces we added make this class deserving of a ranking above the “B” range.
 

ThePiombino

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The future is still the future so we are all BSing, but my hunch is that a young highly energetic and willing to go all over the place at all times Marcus, WILL marginally get better classes than an older Brian, who still works/worked hard. Both of these guys are good at recruiting. If Coach Freeman can look good on the field of play, his classes will be extra good. If not, they will look like Coach Kelly's because of the limitations they both faced/face. Unless something markedly goes wrong at LSU (which I highly doubt), Coach Kelly will recruit super classes there as he develops the limitless program. (Wish that some folks would get over this.) Coach Freeman is a good recruiter --- we need to win a little more on the field.
None of this accounts for NIL. All bets are off. We didn't lose Keeley, Moore, and (possibly) Bowen because of losses on the field. Freeman is the recruiter we needes 5 years ago. Now we need a bag man.

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Dizzyphil

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A- with ZERO instant impact players? I dunno. Hard to lose Moore, Keeley, and (to this point) P.Bowen and call it an A-. B, B+? I can get with that. The class is good. It's balanced, fills some needs, but not all. Not sure how you can grade that an A-.

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I wouldn't shy away from A- . It is the best recruiting class in the last 10 years so far.
 

NDdomer2

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Here is the thing, you sell to your strengths not your limitations. Sure we have limitations with NIL but there isn't another schools out their with Notre Dames prestige and education where you can still play football at a very elite level.
As Marcus Freeman said in his press conference yesterday, when was there another time when we landed a top 300 position player at literally every group. We have 24 guys who are listed at a 4 star on at lease one of the ranking services. Almost all are Composite 4 stars.
this should be the baseline though and i dont think one person here can honestly tell me it puts us on the field of competing with Bama/Georgia regular basis.

I am not saying class sucks or it isnt good enough or anything of the sort, but for the end goal, there still needs to be another level. That might just be 2-3 players as well. But there's still a gap.


definitely should post this in a few more threads on a few more pages....
 

Free Manera

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this should be the baseline though and i dont think one person here can honestly tell me it puts us on the field of competing with Bama/Georgia regular basis.

I am not saying class sucks or it isnt good enough or anything of the sort, but for the end goal, there still needs to be another level. That might just be 2-3 players as well. But there's still a gap.


definitely should post this in a few more threads on a few more pages....
LOL I know but people keep missing the point. This class is objectively better, in most cases by a lot, than every Kelly class except 1. It's not even the same ball park. People are just looking at the recruiting ranking and not the actual make up of the class.
 

ThePiombino

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Traditionally an “A” grade means excellent. I think this class is just shy of excellent, because I agree it lacks an instant-impact type of player. However, I think the amount of quality pieces we added make this class deserving of a ranking above the “B” range.
I like the class's balance plus a few players who have 5* potential eventually, but not year 1. I think we whiffed at WDE and (again, thus far) at safety. I do like that they had a plan B for safety - Minich is OK (doesn't move the needle tho) and we don't even know what position Hillman ends up at (tho he does give me JOK vibes - lazy, I know). As good as the class was, it wasn't what it could have been. If we had backfilled Keeley or Bowen with someone better than we did (no one and Minich respectively) then I could see giving it an A-. But we didn't.

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ThePiombino

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I wouldn't shy away from A- . It is the best recruiting class in the last 10 years so far.
It's a good class, better than anything BK did recently. Agreed. Didn't address every need tho, and lost all our elite recruit battles. I understand why. Doesn't change the end result tho.

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IHateMarkMay

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A- with ZERO instant impact players? I dunno. Hard to lose Moore, Keeley, and (to this point) P.Bowen and call it an A-. B, B+? I can get with that. The class is good. It's balanced, fills some needs, but not all. Not sure how you can grade that an A-.

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How would you grade it if we never had committments from Keeley or P.Bowen and Moore never flirted with us? Is your ranking based on losing these guys, or just that we don't have them?
 

ThePiombino

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How would you grade it if we never had committments from Keeley or P.Bowen and Moore never flirted with us? Is your ranking based on losing these guys, or just that we don't have them?
I'm grading the end result. Again, balanced with a great BCT, but no day 1 impact players and we didn't fill all needs. B/B+. I'm not complaining, just grading.

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NDpendent

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this should be the baseline though and i dont think one person here can honestly tell me it puts us on the field of competing with Bama/Georgia regular basis.

I am not saying class sucks or it isnt good enough or anything of the sort, but for the end goal, there still needs to be another level. That might just be 2-3 players as well. But there's still a gap.


definitely should post this in a few more threads on a few more pages....
I agree with you. If we are going to build a championship team we need to land a couple 5 stars consistently each year but Irishdrunk is acting like this is an average class and that Kelly would have been able to put this class together. Neither are true. This is a very good class.
 
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