2021-2022 Notre Dame Men's Basketball
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I will say, I do like the Laz/Atkinson line-up (I agree with you Anarin, he'll start soon. He just offers much more offensively, and isn't much of a drop on the defensive end). Plus that lets Goodwin defend more his natural position. It makes me think the ACC (edit: Tournament) UNC game won't happen again (shot, rebound, shot, rebound, shot, rebound, shot, rebound, shot, rebound, made shot). But, and this will kill Brey, he needs to adjust the motion. Laz hasn't done a thing out of the offense yet, it's been scramble plays. Him standing in the corner isn't utilizing the other 6'10 big you have. Maybe it's more sets. Maybe it's much more pick and roll, I don't know.
Hubb needs to get his shit together before Monday.
Hubb needs to get his shit together before Monday.
How, after 3 years, do you not fix Laz's flat shot?
He went 0-4 in the first game, most of which hit the front rim. I think 2-5 now in this game, with the misses I remember (and the last one) hitting the front rim.
Why don't I think Wesley will be a superstar? Because since Ingelsby left, we can't develop a FREAKING shooter.
Edit: So far, the biggest indictment on the old staff is the fact that the most fundamental player and most explosive player are individuals that just entered your program (Atkinson and Wesley).
He went 0-4 in the first game, most of which hit the front rim. I think 2-5 now in this game, with the misses I remember (and the last one) hitting the front rim.
Why don't I think Wesley will be a superstar? Because since Ingelsby left, we can't develop a FREAKING shooter.
Edit: So far, the biggest indictment on the old staff is the fact that the most fundamental player and most explosive player are individuals that just entered your program (Atkinson and Wesley).
This is going to be a telling year for Brey on how this program moves forward. You have apparently 7 pieces that he wants to play. Problem is, while each may have a strength, the weaknesses of each are so glaring that it makes certain combinations difficult.
It's hard to play Wertz and Hubb together (neither rebound) - especially if you want to go small.
Goodwin w/only 1 of the bigs means he plays the 4 - He really does a better job rebounding so far this year, but against ACC 4's, it will be the same old, same old.
Hubb/Wertz/Ryan - None of them want to drive right now. And there is "below average" ACC athleticism..
Laz - He isn't Carlton Scott (because he hasn't improved his skill set. Bigger? Yes. Better? No). He can't create a pull-up to hit a 15 footer. He's either spot up, or movement action. We do neither with most of our line-ups.
Think about the best teams Brey has had. Roles were defined, or players could play combo with relative success (by relative, top 50 KenPom). Grant could play 1-3. Pat C could play, hell, 1-4'ish? DJ had the athleticism to guard a big 1-3. Vasturia could guard 1-3. VJ could guard 2-4, Scott would guard 3-5.. All of them would rebound.
Or, you had true position players. Think Geben. Bonzie (yea, offensively he could pick his poison, but defensively he was 4-5), Sherman, Cooley, Nash, Harangody.
We don't have that. We create mismatches for ourselves, and try to work around it knowing we can't compensate. Dane at the 4? Wertz at the 3? Hubb at the 2? Laz at the 4? If they can't hit shots, it's a wasted effort. I get the thought process, but after 3 years, to channel Denny Green "THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE".
If Brey can't adapt. Or try to FORCE Saunders or Zona in bigger line-ups, then I fear this is going to be same old, same old, based on the first 2 games.
Edit: I will say, you can adjust some of these deficiencies, but that means adjustments on the offensive end (and not just more 2 high ball screens). But that would mean Brey gets away from what he's comfortable with. I've watched a bunch of Top 25 games over the last few days, and more Power 5 games, and I'm not sure there are many teams we would have beat these first 2 games. How is that possible with guys that have been playing together for 4 years?
It's hard to play Wertz and Hubb together (neither rebound) - especially if you want to go small.
Goodwin w/only 1 of the bigs means he plays the 4 - He really does a better job rebounding so far this year, but against ACC 4's, it will be the same old, same old.
Hubb/Wertz/Ryan - None of them want to drive right now. And there is "below average" ACC athleticism..
Laz - He isn't Carlton Scott (because he hasn't improved his skill set. Bigger? Yes. Better? No). He can't create a pull-up to hit a 15 footer. He's either spot up, or movement action. We do neither with most of our line-ups.
Think about the best teams Brey has had. Roles were defined, or players could play combo with relative success (by relative, top 50 KenPom). Grant could play 1-3. Pat C could play, hell, 1-4'ish? DJ had the athleticism to guard a big 1-3. Vasturia could guard 1-3. VJ could guard 2-4, Scott would guard 3-5.. All of them would rebound.
Or, you had true position players. Think Geben. Bonzie (yea, offensively he could pick his poison, but defensively he was 4-5), Sherman, Cooley, Nash, Harangody.
We don't have that. We create mismatches for ourselves, and try to work around it knowing we can't compensate. Dane at the 4? Wertz at the 3? Hubb at the 2? Laz at the 4? If they can't hit shots, it's a wasted effort. I get the thought process, but after 3 years, to channel Denny Green "THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE".
If Brey can't adapt. Or try to FORCE Saunders or Zona in bigger line-ups, then I fear this is going to be same old, same old, based on the first 2 games.
Edit: I will say, you can adjust some of these deficiencies, but that means adjustments on the offensive end (and not just more 2 high ball screens). But that would mean Brey gets away from what he's comfortable with. I've watched a bunch of Top 25 games over the last few days, and more Power 5 games, and I'm not sure there are many teams we would have beat these first 2 games. How is that possible with guys that have been playing together for 4 years?
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I agree so far they have looked like the same team the last 3 years. But we won while shooting 6-31 from 3. 8 more of those 3s fall down and we are looking at a blowout. Brey teams have always been a 3pt shooting team and relied on it a lot except 2015 they were just all around good. As we have seen the past 3 years with this current team is they are very inconsistent when shooting the 3. When they are off there are really off. When they are hot then we are winning those games 8/10 times. Problem is we rarely are hot.
The defense has looked pretty good so far through 2 games. I know it’s less competition but still. High point scored 108 their first game so.
I still believe this team can be a 20 win team and should make tourney if they can play like upperclassman. Will they? Idk I hope
Ill save my judgment and season outlook till after Maui invitational cause that is gonna be very telling where we stand
The defense has looked pretty good so far through 2 games. I know it’s less competition but still. High point scored 108 their first game so.
I still believe this team can be a 20 win team and should make tourney if they can play like upperclassman. Will they? Idk I hope
Ill save my judgment and season outlook till after Maui invitational cause that is gonna be very telling where we stand
Let's see how they play against St. Mary's. They have a pretty good guard that is pretty big (like 6'6"). Who guards him?
They will be able to isolate our guards, but we "should" have an advantage in the paint.
If we want to be a tourny team, get to the finals (Oregon is getting smoked by BYU right now, and St. Mary's isn't that good).
They will be able to isolate our guards, but we "should" have an advantage in the paint.
If we want to be a tourny team, get to the finals (Oregon is getting smoked by BYU right now, and St. Mary's isn't that good).
I 100% agree. That first game against ST Mary’s is at 1130pm buhhh
BabyIrish
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Yeah I have no idea why people were predicting a double bye and ncaa tourney berth. The four seniors showed no development in the three years prior and I don’t understand why it would be expected they would develop this year. We will be another .500 team and have to play a first round ACC game.
No way this happens. Could it? Ya but with a senior loaded team that should win us 20 wins at least. And the way Wesley has looked he will boost everyone around him.
If we don’t make tourney then this would be the most disappointing season in recent memory. I know we went 14-19 in 2018-19 but with the expectations to make the tourney this year and to only go .500 would be unbelievably disappointing
Luckily we have great talent coming in and freshman now
stpeteirish
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Yeah, I agree with those above who are not seeing improvement. Brey is working in Atkinson and Wesley, who help, but the remaining 5 in the 7 man rotation are not giving me much hope for any kind of big step up. We appear at this early stage to be trading a marginal improvement in defense for a marginal decline in offense. Ryan, in particular, did yeoman work on D but sucked on O. None of the other holdovers seemed to be any different from last year (Laz started to hit the defensive boards last year and that has carried over nicely) except Hubb is worse.
Hubb's bad shooting will probably correct itself, he proved he can score. But he has no confidence right now. Wesley, Wertz and Ryan can probably play the point enough if Hubb's funk continues but more likely Brey will just let Hubb play through it.
Hubb's bad shooting will probably correct itself, he proved he can score. But he has no confidence right now. Wesley, Wertz and Ryan can probably play the point enough if Hubb's funk continues but more likely Brey will just let Hubb play through it.
I disagree that there hasn’t been improments. Goodwin is already shooting better than he has the last 3 years. He is our best shooter and I’m confident he will make half his 3s. Hubb will eventually find his shot. Like every year he seems to start slow but as we have seen he can go off. Laz has been disappointing so far. He needs to get back to his 14ppg average. Atkinson looks solid so far. We can rely on him to get us 15 a game. It really comes down to can Hubb improve his shooting and can Ryan and wertz get back to how they were playing at the end of last year
BabyIrish
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Yes it would be very disappointing and I fully expect to be disappointed. Wesley has impressed against bad teams. I’m not convinced he’ll be able to produce against ACC teams. We’ll see. But we’re a mediocre team in my opinion.
anarin
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Its early but man this team scares me, and its crazy now to think that most of us had lofty goals for this team when they all came in.
Hubb has been WILDLY inconsistent. And he's so streaky that Brey should actually consider cutting his minutes when he's off, because he straight kills this team when he's not hitting. But he has shown when he does get streaky, he can put up 20+ easy.
Ryan is just a glue guy that hustles hard, and makes a play here and there. I like him better off the bench tbh.
Goodwin is a solid player. At some point though he became very tentative in his play, I feel like he attacked alot more when he first came in. He does seem to have a knack for hitting a needed basket.
Laszewski has been incredibly disappointing... I thought he was going to light up from three, but he'll never be consistent with that flat ass arc he has. I am surprised that his shot hasnt been tweaked. But he still provides that stretch four on the floor that can hit shots when he's not in his own head.
Atkinson is a solid player. But I think he'll struggle bad against other bigs in the ACC. I am looking forward to seeing what he can do.
Wertz has been underwhelming, and I feel like the only way he can score is if he's open in transition. I dont know if he is restricted in the offense? But I feel like before he came to ND he attacked the basket very well.
Wesley reminds me of Cam Reddish at this stage in his career... he has the tools, but he plays reckless. I do think by the end of the year he'll be one of the best players on the team.
I gave more negatives than positives above, but after seeing them against two teams they should be blowing out. I can't help but think they'll miss the tournament again and finish out as a huge disappointing class that had so much hype and promise.
But i'll keep cheering them on and hoping that all of these issues they have are turned around. I'd be glad to get it wrong and see them make a run.
Hubb has been WILDLY inconsistent. And he's so streaky that Brey should actually consider cutting his minutes when he's off, because he straight kills this team when he's not hitting. But he has shown when he does get streaky, he can put up 20+ easy.
Ryan is just a glue guy that hustles hard, and makes a play here and there. I like him better off the bench tbh.
Goodwin is a solid player. At some point though he became very tentative in his play, I feel like he attacked alot more when he first came in. He does seem to have a knack for hitting a needed basket.
Laszewski has been incredibly disappointing... I thought he was going to light up from three, but he'll never be consistent with that flat ass arc he has. I am surprised that his shot hasnt been tweaked. But he still provides that stretch four on the floor that can hit shots when he's not in his own head.
Atkinson is a solid player. But I think he'll struggle bad against other bigs in the ACC. I am looking forward to seeing what he can do.
Wertz has been underwhelming, and I feel like the only way he can score is if he's open in transition. I dont know if he is restricted in the offense? But I feel like before he came to ND he attacked the basket very well.
Wesley reminds me of Cam Reddish at this stage in his career... he has the tools, but he plays reckless. I do think by the end of the year he'll be one of the best players on the team.
I gave more negatives than positives above, but after seeing them against two teams they should be blowing out. I can't help but think they'll miss the tournament again and finish out as a huge disappointing class that had so much hype and promise.
But i'll keep cheering them on and hoping that all of these issues they have are turned around. I'd be glad to get it wrong and see them make a run.
FightingIrishLover7
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Today is the 20th anniversary of Mike Brey's first win at ND. 104-58 over Sacred Heart. What a wild run it's been. Super thankful for all that he has done for the program and hope that this latest surge pushes ND back for another run and creates long term stability for the future.
notredomer23
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Game against Saint Mary's today I think will be a decent indicator for where this team is. Unfortunately will not be watching with 11:30 PM tipoff
Some Irish Bloke
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I'll probably watch the first half and make up my mind as to whether or not it's worth staying up for from there. I'm off on Wednesday so thankfully I can afford being a bit groggy for one work day haha
I hate blaming the refs for games because they didn’t shot the ball but in this case there was some absolute bullshit calls. Laz literally didn’t even touch the player going to rim. Next play Ryan goes to the rim and is bodied pretty good and would be called most times. Then wertz did not step out of bounds. His heel was up.
still had a chance to win or tie. Ryan not coming up clutch making both FT was killer
notredomer23
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I didn't watch so hard to comment, but looking at the box score, how is possible that Hubb has regressed this much?! While he was always mistake prone, he was at least a decent scoring threat. Another dismal shooting performance and shooting 14% on the year. WTF?! If he returns to just 12 ppg, that's an extra 7 points each of these contests and the difference maker.
Some Irish Bloke
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Thought Atkinson and Cormac Ryan played really well, FT at the end there notwithstanding.
St. Mary's is a scrappy, veteran team. I assume they'll be dancing in March, but they are frequently one of the teams you'll see on the bubble and they'll have a head to head W against us if we're trying to claw our way in. Pretty early for that talk, but still worth mentioning.
There isn't a true leader on this team, though, and I think that's what hurt us the most towards the end. Nate is practically non-existent offensively, Hub has a serious case of the yips right now and there's just no one to really trust down the stretch in the final minute.
Goodwin played so well in the first half then was practically non-existent in the 2nd. I hope he can be that guy. Loved that he was attacking the basket after his 18 point (all 3's) performance against High Point. Need that versatility out of him, but he can't disappear for an entire half like that.
St. Mary's is a scrappy, veteran team. I assume they'll be dancing in March, but they are frequently one of the teams you'll see on the bubble and they'll have a head to head W against us if we're trying to claw our way in. Pretty early for that talk, but still worth mentioning.
There isn't a true leader on this team, though, and I think that's what hurt us the most towards the end. Nate is practically non-existent offensively, Hub has a serious case of the yips right now and there's just no one to really trust down the stretch in the final minute.
Goodwin played so well in the first half then was practically non-existent in the 2nd. I hope he can be that guy. Loved that he was attacking the basket after his 18 point (all 3's) performance against High Point. Need that versatility out of him, but he can't disappear for an entire half like that.
BrownerandFry
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Mike Brey has been disgusting for 20 years. He has to improve a lot just to be mediocre.
He is an incompetent who has sat on his hands while watching in state giant Butler get to two final fours, while he has to buy a ticket.
the smartest basketball coach on campus in Niele Ivey who helped her son escape to Purdue. That is a sharp momma, helping him choose the estimable Matt Painter over Brey.
stpeteirish
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I guess no one bothered with the game last night. We lost to Texas A&M. Three games in three nights. They played 12 guys, we played 7. We had a 13 point lead early in the second half and fell apart.
Another coaching gem by Brey.
Another coaching gem by Brey.
ab2cmiller
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Brey was too busy the game before giving all but 2 minutes to that same seven in a blowout 26 point win over Chaminade. Brilliant
Seriously, A&M is not good. ND absolutely should have won that game.....honestly they could have snuck away with that tourney with a couple breaks. Brey is so stubborn with his rotation. This group of seniors is Brey's highest rated class, and they will never even sniff the tournament. It's really a shame. And Hubb's play right now is mind-boggling. He can't shoot...can't defend...and is a turnover machine.
I actually watched the whole game unfortunately. Embarrassing lose. We completely unraveled. Hubb is just so inconsistent and erratic it’s unbelievable. He is shooting awful. He can’t even hit his FT and he’s a career 78% and I think he is around 50%. Disgusting. Laz looks nothing like last year. He had that junior bump and now he is having a senior slump??? That goes for Hubb too. Wertz looks absolutely lost on the court. He makes like one play per game then it’s just nothing. Ryan is the same he’s been. Gets you a couple big shots and plays and plays good D. Goodwin is stepping his game up this year and it’s nice to see. And Atkinson has been solid.
If it wasn’t for Wesley we would look like a D2 school. I don’t care who Brey takes out but Wesley needs to play all the time.
Im not gonna say I’m not gonna watch anymore cause obviously I will but I won’t be going out of my way to watch the games cause it’s just embarrassing to watch.
BabyIrish
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Brey starting the first game with only a seven person rotation showed me that he wasn’t interested in actually improving the program in any way. He’s only interested in one last dance with the seniors to try and get them to the tourney. And it won’t work because the seniors are overrated. If he wanted any chance to get the tourney he needed to do something completely different and expand his rotation by developing his young guys with game reps. We won’t even make the NIT this year.
I don’t think we need to jump to that conclusion. A lot of bball yet to play.
It’s def not looking good right now but so many more games to play. I’m not giving up even tho I’m very close lol