2019 - State of the Recruiting Class thread

[NDMIA]

Avery Davis?
C'Bo?
Jahmir Smith?
Kyren W?

The other two mehish so far.....

2020 has to be the year to get 2-3 stud 4 star RB's. Dex is done...there is no heir apparent. Give the recruitment of RB's over to Long....Denson hasn't got it done in 3 classes....time to make a proactive move to get this moving in the right direction.

And no I don't buy the excuse top RB's don't want to play at ND.

First, ND doesn't get 4* RB's so what makes you think ND is going to go from 0 to 3 RB's. Also, you can't have that kind of imbalance in classes because then transfers happen. I would recruit the crap out of all of the 4 stars until you get 1 and then if another 1 likes it enough to come then they can make room for him, but to get 3 would be crazy. If I were ND, I'd be worried about getting 1 4* RB let alone, 3. Ideally, ND could get Chris Tyree, if not, ND should take a look at Michael Drennen II, who lives 4 hours away, and recently got offers from academic places like Duke, Northwestern, Michigan, Vanderbilt, Virginia, and Boston College. The kid has zero ND staff follows on twitter so maybe they just don't care for him, but his academics seem to be very much in order and his talent is obvious.

 

[RDU Irish]

First, ND doesn't get 4* RB's so what makes you think ND is going to go from 0 to 3 RB's. Also, you can't have that kind of imbalance in classes because then transfers happen. I would recruit the crap out of all of the 4 stars until you get 1 and then if another 1 likes it enough to come then they can make room for him, but to get 3 would be crazy. If I were ND, I'd be worried about getting 1 4* RB let alone, 3. Ideally, ND could get Chris Tyree, if not, ND should take a look at Michael Drennen II, who lives 4 hours away, and recently got offers from academic places like Duke, Northwestern, Michigan, Vanderbilt, Virginia, and Boston College. The kid has zero ND staff follows on twitter so maybe they just don't care for him, but his academics seem to be very much in order and his talent is obvious.

RBs getting touches by committee is no problem in CFB - almost encouraged as NFL wants somebody that hasn't been beat up for four years in a low life span position. CBK hasn't spread out the touches though - see Dex. He gets his bellcow he "trusts" and beats him to a pulp over the course of the season with some 80/15/5 split amongst three top backs instead of a more recruitable 60/25/15 or 50/30/20 type of split. Why we can't dumb down some plays to get a player like Dex touches over 4 years something like 5/8/12/20 per game is one of the more baffling things in NDFB to me.

 

[fightingirish26]

RS JR Tony Jones Jr.
RS SO Avery Davis
RS SO Jafar Armstrong
RS FR Jahmir Smith
RS FR C’Bo Flemister
FR Kyren Williams

The problem with their numbers is the fact that they couldn’t afford to probably take another running back this year because there would be a roster imbalance with 7 scholarship running backs. The problem I have with that is the fact that they could’ve, would’ve, should’ve held off on taking two 3* RB’s last cycle. If they take one of those dudes then they have an opportunity to take Chez Mellusi who’s an Army All American RB. I’d take Mellusi over almost all of the RB’s in ND’s room except maybe Jafar and Kyren. Hindsight is 20-20 tho. Hopefully next cycle they swing for the fences and don’t settle. I’d hope they just go after the top 15 RB’s in the cycle and keep at them instead of lowering their standards in the summer and making sure they hit their numbers. So far, ND has offers out to 8 of the top 16 composite RB’s in the country and they’ve gotten some traction with Chris Tyree which is huge. Hopefully they’ll be able to get him back in the spring for an OV!

Chez committed to Clemson in April, which means he was supposedly ready to commit to ND before then. Numbers weren't a factor at that point, and Kyren committed in June.

 

[NDMIA]

RBs getting touches by committee is no problem in CFB - almost encouraged as NFL wants somebody that hasn't been beat up for four years in a low life span position. CBK hasn't spread out the touches though - see Dex. He gets his bellcow he "trusts" and beats him to a pulp over the course of the season with some 80/15/5 split amongst three top backs instead of a more recruitable 60/25/15 or 50/30/20 type of split. Why we can't dumb down some plays to get a player like Dex touches over 4 years something like 5/8/12/20 per game is one of the more baffling things in NDFB to me.

Top 4 RB's Usage Rate (Percentage of only top 4 RB's on Team)
Clemson
Etienne - 190 - 47.9%
Feaster - 75 - 18.9%
Choice - 70 - 17.6%
Dixon - 62 - 15.6%

Alabama
D. Harris - 139 - 33.2%
Jacobs - 109 - 26.0%
N. Harris - 108 - 25.8%
Robinson Jr. - 63 - 15.0%

Notre Dame
Williams - 142 - 44.7%
Jones Jr. - 83 - 26.1%
Armstrong - 71 - 22.3%
Davis - 22 - 6.9%

Georgia
Swift - 163 - 39.5%
Holyfield - 159 - 38.5%
Herrien - 50 - 12.1%
Cook - 41 - 9.9%

I think that Kelly did extensively use Williams in the latter stages of the season, but I do think ND split the carries pretty well. Only Alabama can do what they do because they have high 4* & 5* RB's who are NFL ready when they get to college. Also, they are destroying cupcakes and have Damien Harris run the ball fewer than 10 times. Our usage of RB's is pretty similar to Clemson and I'm sure they'd wish they could get more production out of their backups as well. It would be awesome to see ND get to a level of a Georgia where they can split reps evenly between two guys and witness no drop off in production, but they don't have enough trust in the running backs to do their job really well. Ideally, next season, Tony Jones Jr & Jafar Armstrong are able to compliment each other well and get similar usage like they did this year, but increased. Avery Davis needs to develop and also put on probably 10lbs at least. Maybe one of Jahmir Smith or C'Bo Flemister provide a spark off the bench as well. ND has the bodies, but now they need to find 4 solid RB's they have confidence in and ride with them for next season!

 

[BobbyMac]

RBs getting touches by committee is no problem in CFB - almost encouraged as NFL wants somebody that hasn't been beat up for four years in a low life span position. CBK hasn't spread out the touches though - see Dex. He gets his bellcow he "trusts" and beats him to a pulp over the course of the season with some 80/15/5 split amongst three top backs instead of a more recruitable 60/25/15 or 50/30/20 type of split. Why we can't dumb down some plays to get a player like Dex touches over 4 years something like 5/8/12/20 per game is one of the more baffling things in NDFB to me.

I thought Dex's ND career was ripe for negative recruiting? What you just said was ND handled him in such a way that he was able to show the NFL all they needed to see in 9 games while remaining the freshest back in the draft.

Anything spinnable can be spun back 180 degrees in two different directions.

 

[NDMIA]

Chez committed to Clemson in April, which means he was supposedly ready to commit to ND before then. Numbers weren't a factor at that point, and Kyren committed in June.

I think that is pretty obvious in the fact that the staff wanted Kyren Williams more than Chez Mellusi. Autry Denson said on signing day in an interview, "I got my guy!" ND cancelled his OV where he probably would've committed so they probably think Kyren has a better chance to be successful at ND than Chez Mellusi. We'll see.

 

[BobbyMac]

I think that is pretty obvious in the fact that the staff wanted Kyren Williams more than Chez Mellusi. Autry Denson said on signing day in an interview, "I got my guy!" ND cancelled his OV where he probably would've committed so they probably think Kyren has a better chance to be successful at ND than Chez Mellusi. We'll see.

I've always thought this meant the staff not only felt good about what they had at RB coming into the '18 season but what they had in potential RB's at other spots like Armstrong & Davis plus Bracey too who had 2000+ yds playing high enrollment football in the East Bay.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

I've always thought this meant the staff not only felt good about what they had at RB coming into the '18 season but what they had in potential RB's at other spots like Armstrong & Davis plus Bracey too who had 2000+ yds playing high enrollment football in the East Bay.

Will Bracey get a shot at RB or is he a forsure CB going forward?

 

[Luckylucci]

Will Bracey get a shot at RB or is he a forsure CB going forward?

Can't for certain this is the case but I'd be fairly surprised to see them move Bracy after he was the first freshman CB to get action this year. One would assume he factors pretty heavily into the future CB options.

 

[BobbyMac]

Will Bracey get a shot at RB or is he a forsure CB going forward?

Everything we've seen up to now says it's CB. IF he were to go to the offensive side, it would be to WR/Slot most likely. If they wanted him to be a RB, he'd have to go extended stay at the Balis Arms. He's not built for P5 RB duties as is.

 

[RDU Irish]

Top 4 RB's Usage Rate (Percentage of only top 4 RB's on Team)
Clemson
Etienne - 190 - 47.9%
Feaster - 75 - 18.9%
Choice - 70 - 17.6%
Dixon - 62 - 15.6%

Alabama
D. Harris - 139 - 33.2%
Jacobs - 109 - 26.0%
N. Harris - 108 - 25.8%
Robinson Jr. - 63 - 15.0%

Notre Dame
Williams - 142 - 44.7%
Jones Jr. - 83 - 26.1%
Armstrong - 71 - 22.3%
Davis - 22 - 6.9%

Georgia
Swift - 163 - 39.5%
Holyfield - 159 - 38.5%
Herrien - 50 - 12.1%
Cook - 41 - 9.9%

I think that Kelly did extensively use Williams in the latter stages of the season, but I do think ND split the carries pretty well. Only Alabama can do what they do because they have high 4* & 5* RB's who are NFL ready when they get to college. Also, they are destroying cupcakes and have Damien Harris run the ball fewer than 10 times. Our usage of RB's is pretty similar to Clemson and I'm sure they'd wish they could get more production out of their backups as well. It would be awesome to see ND get to a level of a Georgia where they can split reps evenly between two guys and witness no drop off in production, but they don't have enough trust in the running backs to do their job really well. Ideally, next season, Tony Jones Jr & Jafar Armstrong are able to compliment each other well and get similar usage like they did this year, but increased. Avery Davis needs to develop and also put on probably 10lbs at least. Maybe one of Jahmir Smith or C'Bo Flemister provide a spark off the bench as well. ND has the bodies, but now they need to find 4 solid RB's they have confidence in and ride with them for next season!

Kid like Davis gets more reps than Dex did as a frosh just baffles me. Dex riding pine for 3.25 years is not fodder for negative recruiting? 5 star Greg Bryant couldn't break the lineup either - there is history here. We don't have so many play makers that we can afford to let them season on the bench until they "figure it out" - fashion some plays for them and get them on the field! Same with our young WRs this year - non-existent in big games.

2018 Total carries for RBs
158 - Dex in 9 games
83 - Jones Jr
72 - Jafar
22 - Davis

2017
206 - Adams (58%)
65 - McIntosh (18%)
44 - Jones Jr (12%)
39 - Dex (11%)

2016
158 - Adams (58%)
77 - Folston (28%)
39 - Dex (14%)

2015
157 - Prosise
116 - Adams
21 - Dex

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Went down the list of the 24/7 recruiting class averages in the Kelly era:

2019: 90.45 (May improve with Foskey/Turner)
2018: 90.06
2017: 89.37
2016: 89
2015: 90.04
2014: 89.32
2013: 92.3
2012: 91.21
2011: 89.86
2010: 88.44

Even a half point difference is a fairly substantial difference, for example 1 92 average would have been a top 3 quality class all but once in the last 3 years. The last two classes have both been higher quality than any but 2012 and 2013. 2012 shouldn't even count considering that class was tiny (16 commits) and the top 2 players (Kiel and Neal) never even suited up in an ND uniform.

What survived of the 2012 class and then the 2013 class (which is inarguably the best recruiting class of the Kelly era IMO) made the backbone of the 2015 team which had the most talented ND team Kelly has had. Nobody will be able to convince me that team wasn't a playoff team had we even had an average defensive coordinator that year.

Despite what the scuttlebutt about our recruiting since the loss these last two classes are on paper the best back-to-back recruiting classes in the Kelly era. They're better than every class of upperclassmen that took this team to an undefeated regular season. And they seem likely to improve as long as the product on the field continues to stay high. I don't know what the future holds for the program but it comforts me to say the talent level of our team is on the upswing even after what is probably the best season we've had in 25 years.

 

[AllGoldEverything]

I am pleased with ND and their recruiting classes as of late. I think that gap that we need to fill is to keep doing what we are doing, but take some chances on differences makers on 2-3 players for class. This would give us aprx. 10 difference makers on each team.

By taking a chance, I don't mean kids who can barely read, but 5 stars or high 4 stars that are average academically, but could complete the work with some maturing. I think this will take our team to the next level.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I love this class and I believe it is hilariously underrated, due to botched recruiting analysis on a lot of guys. Namely guys like Hamilton, Williams, Liufau, Litchfield, Correll and Abdur-Rahman. I shouldn't be so tough on the services, because there are only so many "experts" and thousands of players to analyze, but it just shows you how flawed the current system is.

That being said, I think this class doesn't do a good job of satisfying the primary issue that doomed us v. Clemson. A lack of elite athleticism at the skill position. I start by saying that Abdur-Rahman has that, and I think he'll be a playmaker for us, but that alone isn't enough. I think Kyren Williams can develop into an all-around dominant RB for us, but can he be a guy who is a threat to break it every time he touches the ball? I'd be pleasantly surprised if that were the case.

Clemson had very little issue shutting down our offense, because we had no vertical speed. Guys like Boykin and Claypool are big dudes, but not that fast. Finke is fast, but not a burner similar to Will Fuller. He does his best damage in space (which is why he's the slippery fox).

You look at the other three playoff teams this year. Alabama had Jerry Jeudy, Jaylen Waddle, Devonta Smith and Henry Ruggs. All 4 of those guys are burners. Clemson has Justyn Ross, Tee Higgins and Amari Rogers. 2 6'5 uber athletes and a burner. Oklahoma had CeeDee Lamb and Marquise Brown. Both guys with the capability to burn secondaries. ND had nobody who could consistently threaten to burn a defense.

To this classes' defense, ND did land multiple guys last class with that kind of elite athleticism in Austin, Keys and Lenzy, but ND has to land those kind of high-level athletes every year.

 

[stlnd01]

I know for a fact Stepp wasn't getting into ND. As for Mellusi I'm not positive, but I think the staff thought there might be issues of him getting into ND as well. Not positive.

Oh, that was clearly the case with Stepp. That kid wanted to come here. It's just too bad. I think we'll be seeing a lot of him the next few years and I wish it was with a gold helmet instead of a red one.

 

[Irish#1]

Oh, that was clearly the case with Stepp. That kid wanted to come here. It's just too bad. I think we'll be seeing a lot of him the next few years and I wish it was with a gold helmet instead of a red one.

Which was surprising as he went to Cathedral HS here in Indy. ND has had a number of kids from Cathedral over the years. It's a Catholic HS known for its academics and athletics.

 

[dublinirish]

Oh, that was clearly the case with Stepp. That kid wanted to come here. It's just too bad. I think we'll be seeing a lot of him the next few years and I wish it was with a gold helmet instead of a red one.

doubt he fits Kingsbury's offense at all.

 

[ACamp1900]

Oh, that was clearly the case with Stepp. That kid wanted to come here. It's just too bad. I think we'll be seeing a lot of him the next few years and I wish it was with a gold helmet instead of a red one.

This sort of thing doesn't happen at ND anymore,... I read it somewhere on IE....

 

[SoIll]

doubt he fits Kingsbury's offense at all.

he's not going to be there....