2019 - State of the Recruiting Class thread

[irishff1014]

Why are they falling? Pardon my ignorance

Florida, FSU, And possibly USC could pass us with the battles going on.

One good thing is Foskey and Turner could off set that a little.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

Florida, FSU, And possibly USC could pass us with the battles going on.

One good thing is Foskey and Turner could off set that a little.

Had a great haul in need-areas, mainly DBs and LBs, so I see it as a successful run. We aren't Bama, can't just RIP and run with everyone we offer. Defense looks amazing for the foreseeable future, just have to stay up on WR/RB, and it seems like WR was hit in 18 and looks solid again in 2020. RB is borderline shameful tho, I don't get it? You'd think guys would be lining up to run behind all of those trees.

 

[T-Boone]

https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/

The question is how far do we fall. I say we fall to #16. That has to get better. It's pretty sad we are on the fringe of the top 15.

I think the recruiting is good if you look at it over a two year period. Again except for RB we seem to have picked up good players and depth at every other position.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Had a great haul in need-areas, mainly DBs and LBs, so I see it as a successful run. We aren't Bama, can't just RIP and run with everyone we offer. Defense looks amazing for the foreseeable future, just have to stay up on WR/RB, and it seems like WR was hit in 18 and looks solid again in 2020. RB is borderline shameful tho, I don't get it? You'd think guys would be lining up to run behind all of those trees.

Running backs don't want to play school?

Autry Denson sucks at recruiting?

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

Well it's not like Prosise, Josh Adams, Riddick aren't in the NFL, so we've put guys in the league, and ND's offensive line recruiting is as steady as any program in the country. I would think Kelly and the coordinators would place major emphasis on improving the skill position guys, RB especially. We don't need 4 5-star RBs on the roster like Bama, just a guy we can feature. Preferably in the Top 100 nationally.

 

[fightingirish26]

Is it true that we passed on Chez Mellusi?

 

[Luckylucci]

Is it true that we passed on Chez Mellusi?

It’s believed so, liked Kyren Williams more. I think folks are way too low on Williams. Kid is a baller.

 

[Luckylucci]

Also, 247 has him rated as the #12 RB in the class, that’s not too shabby. He’s ranked ahead of RB’s committed to Texas, USC, Auburn, Washington, and Clemson (Mellusi)

I’d add KAR to that group as well. Very talented runner.

 

[fightingirish26]

It’s believed so, liked Kyren Williams more. I think folks are way too low on Williams. Kid is a baller.

I like Kyren. Just don't know why you couldn't take both. That is clearly the position that looks weakest on the roster from a talent perspective at the moment.

 

[Irish#1]

Florida, FSU, And possibly USC could pass us with the battles going on.

One good thing is Foskey and Turner could off set that a little.

If we get who we want, does it really matter where we are ranked? Ratings are so subjective and the difference between the #5 and #15 rated classes could be minimal and not mean that much. A big flaw of the services is they use total number of recruits in their rankings. Some years you can't take the max. Does that mean those recruits aren't that good?

 

[Wingman Ray]

Wasnt Chez academic suspect?

 

[NDMIA]

I like Kyren. Just don't know why you couldn't take both. That is clearly the position that looks weakest on the roster from a talent perspective at the moment.

RS JR Tony Jones Jr.
RS SO Avery Davis
RS SO Jafar Armstrong
RS FR Jahmir Smith
RS FR C’Bo Flemister
FR Kyren Williams

The problem with their numbers is the fact that they couldn’t afford to probably take another running back this year because there would be a roster imbalance with 7 scholarship running backs. The problem I have with that is the fact that they could’ve, would’ve, should’ve held off on taking two 3* RB’s last cycle. If they take one of those dudes then they have an opportunity to take Chez Mellusi who’s an Army All American RB. I’d take Mellusi over almost all of the RB’s in ND’s room except maybe Jafar and Kyren. Hindsight is 20-20 tho. Hopefully next cycle they swing for the fences and don’t settle. I’d hope they just go after the top 15 RB’s in the cycle and keep at them instead of lowering their standards in the summer and making sure they hit their numbers. So far, ND has offers out to 8 of the top 16 composite RB’s in the country and they’ve gotten some traction with Chris Tyree which is huge. Hopefully they’ll be able to get him back in the spring for an OV!

 

[EddytoNow]

RS JR Tony Jones Jr.
RS SO Avery Davis
RS SO Jafar Armstrong
RS FR Jahmir Smith
RS FR C’Bo Flemister
FR Kyren Williams

The problem with their numbers is the fact that they couldn’t afford to probably take another running back this year because there would be a roster imbalance with 7 scholarship running backs. The problem I have with that is the fact that they could’ve, would’ve, should’ve held off on taking two 3* RB’s last cycle. If they take one of those dudes then they have an opportunity to take Chez Mellusi who’s an Army All American RB. I’d take Mellusi over almost all of the RB’s in ND’s room except maybe Jafar and Kyren. Hindsight is 20-20 tho. Hopefully next cycle they swing for the fences and don’t settle. I’d hope they just go after the top 15 RB’s in the cycle and keep at them instead of lowering their standards in the summer and making sure they hit their numbers. So far, ND has offers out to 8 of the top 16 composite RB’s in the country and they’ve gotten some traction with Chris Tyree which is huge. Hopefully they’ll be able to get him back in the spring for an OV!

In hindsight, Josh Adams was leaving early, there was some uncertainty surrounding Dexter Williams' availability in 2018, and (if I'm not mistaken) both Avery Davis and Jafar Armstrong had not yet been switched to running back from other positions. The only true running back returning at that time was Tony Jones.

The whole running back situation was a mess with both C.J. Holmes and Deon McIntosh being shown the door. At the time, we were happy to have two running backs available and willing to commit to ND.

 

[NDMIA]

If we get who we want, does it really matter where we are ranked? Ratings are so subjective and the difference between the #5 and #15 rated classes could be minimal and not mean that much. A big flaw of the services is they use total number of recruits in their rankings. Some years you can't take the max. Does that mean those recruits aren't that good?

There are 8 schools who have 22 or fewer commits that are ranked ahead of us. Numbers aren’t changing the fact that some schools are getting better classes than we have. The big difference is high-end talent in the class. Penn State has only 18 guys but 5 of them are higher rated than our highest rated commit. I think ND has a good class but they got a lot of .9500 or higher guys to be really interested or even on campus but got two of them and couldn’t close the deal with the rest. Graham Mertz, Austin Jones they never got on campus but was interested, Garrett Wilson, Joe Ngata, Jake Smith, Dylan Wright, David Bell, Isaiah Williams, Hudson Henry, Austin Stogner, Harry Miller, Tyler Johnson, Logan Brown, Devontae Dobbs, Zach Harrison, Chris Hinton, Jowon Briggs, George Karlaftis, Bru McCoy, Brandon Smith, Shane Lee, Cade Stover, Brian Williams, Julian Barnett, Lewis Cine, Nick Cross (Wiltfong seemed to think he’d come for whatever reason). Jowon Briggs never seemed to be a take and he’ll take his violin-playing, 4.0 GPA, and Army All American self to UVA. George Karlaftis seemed to be the regional shoe-in for Notre Dame but instead something happened where he hated ND. Even with the temptations of playing RB behind that line and for ND, they couldn’t even get Austin Jones to take a free trip to ND. I think the class hit really high marks in terms of filling needs and providing quality depth for the future, but the big fish are swimming down a different stream than the one ND is offering right now.

 

[IrishLax]

There are 8 schools who have 22 or fewer commits that are ranked ahead of us. Numbers aren’t changing the fact that some schools are getting better classes than we have. The big difference is high-end talent in the class. Penn State has only 18 guys but 5 of them are higher rated than our highest rated commit. I think ND has a good class but they got a lot of .9500 or higher guys to be really interested or even on campus but got two of them and couldn’t close the deal with the rest. Graham Mertz, Austin Jones they never got on campus but was interested, Garrett Wilson, Joe Ngata, Jake Smith, Dylan Wright, David Bell, Isaiah Williams, Hudson Henry, Austin Stogner, Harry Miller, Tyler Johnson, Logan Brown, Devontae Dobbs, Zach Harrison, Chris Hinton, Jowon Briggs, George Karlaftis, Bru McCoy, Brandon Smith, Shane Lee, Cade Stover, Brian Williams, Julian Barnett, Lewis Cine, Nick Cross (Wiltfong seemed to think he’d come for whatever reason). Jowon Briggs never seemed to be a take and he’ll take his violin-playing, 4.0 GPA, and Army All American self to UVA. George Karlaftis seemed to be the regional shoe-in for Notre Dame but instead something happened where he hated ND. Even with the temptations of playing RB behind that line and for ND, they couldn’t even get Austin Jones to take a free trip to ND. I think the class hit really high marks in terms of filling needs and providing quality depth for the future, but the big fish are swimming down a different stream than the one ND is offering right now.

This class, IMO, is a failure because of the lack of top end talent signed at multiple important positions. To finish the regular season undefeated but be looking at a class outside of the top 15 (much less top 10) is ridiculous. There aren't many "Heggies" in this class, but I really don't know if we're signing the kind of players you need to win a championship. There are zero prospects that are a Jaylon Smith type of immediate impact player. I understand that it's asking a lot to sign a Jaylon Smith every class, but the last top 50 player ND signed was in 2016. ND hasn't signed a single top 25 composite player since 2013. That's absurd.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

This class, IMO, is a failure because of the lack of top end talent signed at multiple important positions. To finish the regular season undefeated but be looking at a class outside of the top 15 (much less top 10) is ridiculous. There aren't many "Heggies" in this class, but I really don't know if we're signing the kind of players you need to win a championship. There are zero prospects that are a Jaylon Smith type of immediate impact player. I understand that it's asking a lot to sign a Jaylon Smith every class, but the last top 50 player ND signed was in 2016. ND hasn't signed a single top 25 composite player since 2013. That's absurd.

I disagree Kyle Hamilton could be an instant impact player if the staff doesn’t decide to hold him back next year, he is killing it at the all American practice and will most likely earn a 5 star.

 

[Luckylucci]

Still don’t care about team rankings, surprised anyone does. We signed a class that saw us beat a lot of other top P5 programs for some of these players. So, other coaches thought they could help them win a Championship. That should probably be considered. Lacey, Ekwonu, Hamilton, Nana, Kristofic, Carrol, Correll, and Rutherford were all highly competitive recruitments. Add Foskey as potentially another. It also saw us beat some rivals heads up for others.

 

[stlnd01]

I like Kyren. Just don't know why you couldn't take both. That is clearly the position that looks weakest on the roster from a talent perspective at the moment.

This is where I’m at. RB is the thinnest/weakest position on the roster. If two top-end guys want to come, why not take both. If Mellusi is good enough for Clemson, I’m not sure why he wasn’t good enough for us.

Also that little bit of Stepp we saw in the USC game definitely had me thinking about what might have been. He looked like a live one.

 

[NDMIA]

This is where I’m at. RB is the thinnest/weakest position on the roster. If two top-end guys want to come, why not take both. If Mellusi is good enough for Clemson, I’m not sure why he wasn’t good enough for us.

Also that little bit of Stepp we saw in the USC game definitely had me thinking about what might have been. He looked like a live one.

I know for a fact Stepp wasn't getting into ND. As for Mellusi I'm not positive, but I think the staff thought there might be issues of him getting into ND as well. Not positive.

 

[NDohio]

I know for a fact Stepp wasn't getting into ND. As for Mellusi I'm not positive, but I think the staff thought there might be issues of him getting into ND as well. Not positive.

This has to be a lie. Academics are not a hindrance when recruiting for ND.

 

[arrowryan]

This class, IMO, is a failure because of the lack of top end talent signed at multiple important positions. To finish the regular season undefeated but be looking at a class outside of the top 15 (much less top 10) is ridiculous. There aren't many "Heggies" in this class, but I really don't know if we're signing the kind of players you need to win a championship. There are zero prospects that are a Jaylon Smith type of immediate impact player. I understand that it's asking a lot to sign a Jaylon Smith every class, but the last top 50 player ND signed was in 2016. ND hasn't signed a single top 25 composite player since 2013. That's absurd.

Notre Dame hanse signed a Jaylon Smith type players since, well, Jaylon Smith.

Notre Dame has obviously shown that they can make the playoffs with the recruiting that they do now. This is where I think the geographic location and academic workload work against Notre Dame. Notre Dame probably won't land a 5 star or top 25 player unless they can embrace the challenges of being a true student-athlete (Jaylon Smith).

Notre Dame is going to have to be very good at player development because the recruiting ceiling is players ranked in the top 75-150 with a top 50 guy sprinkled in every now and then.

 

[arrowryan]

Still don’t care about team rankings, surprised anyone does. We signed a class that saw us beat a lot of other top P5 programs for some of these players. So, other coaches thought they could help them win a Championship. That should probably be considered. Lacey, Ekwonu, Hamilton, Nana, Kristofic, Carrol, Correll, and Rutherford were all highly competitive recruitments. Add Foskey as potentially another. It also saw us beat some rivals heads up for others.

This where I have been for a while. Most of the time, a large majority of Notre Dame commits/current players has/had offers from teams that are playoff regulars or are always competing for a playoff spot. That will ALWAYS rank higher in my mind than what someone behind a keyboard thinks about the recruiting class.

 

[BobbyMac]

I'm as in tune with R&R's as anyone in the country, being #15 or #7 means nothing unless you have a couple of difference makers, most importantly at QB, then WR & DL. Yes, I want to win the beauty pageant that is the Rankings Game because of all the obvious reasons but championships can be won with the class rankings ND averages if they get more difference makers who play like 5*'s in college. The easiest way to do that is by landing some 5*'s.

The Clemson team that won the NC in '16 was comprised of the following rankings:

2016 Freshmen ....... #11
2015 Sophomores ... #9
2014 Juniors ........... #16
2013 Seniors ........... #15
2012 5th Years ........ #20

ND had better classes as far as rankings 3 of 5 years, avg'd #12 while Clemson avg'd #14. ND had higher APR 4 of 5 seasons and it's team avg was .9046 vs. Clemson's .8912. The difference is not just the number of 5*'s, it's the difference making production from some of the 5*'s and in their case, the 4 stars who produced like 5*'s... Watson being the most important.

ND has to land a Jurkovec every 2 years and one of them needs to produce like a 5* whether they were or not, like Deshaun Watson did for Clemson. They need to hit on more difference makers at WR. Michael Floyd's don't come around very often but somehow ND has to land something along the lines of MF or Golden Tate every 2-3 years then a Jeff Smardzija or Will Fuller type who provides 5* production in alternating years. At RB Kelly has to keep doing what he's doing while keeping the difference makers out of his doghouse. Finally, they have to get consistent 5* production out of D linemen. The 2016 DE class is the type of class you need every 2-3 years. You also have to somehow land the Alfano's and Karlaftis' of the world, one way or the other, when they are knocking on your door.

 

[NDRock]

I'm as in tune with R&R's as anyone in the country, being #15 or #7 means nothing unless you have a couple of difference makers, most importantly at QB, then WR & DL. Yes, I want to win the beauty pageant that is the Rankings Game because of all the obvious reasons but championships can be won with the class rankings ND averages if they get more difference makers who play like 5*'s in college. The easiest way to do that is by landing some 5*'s.

The Clemson team that won the NC in '16 was comprised of the following rankings:

2016 Freshmen ....... #11
2015 Sophomores ... #9
2014 Juniors ........... #16
2013 Seniors ........... #15
2012 5th Years ........ #20

ND had better classes as far as rankings 3 of 5 years, avg'd #12 while Clemson avg'd #14. ND had higher APR 4 of 5 seasons and it's team avg was .9046 vs. Clemson's .8912. The difference is not just the number of 5*'s, it's the difference making production from some of the 5*'s and in their case, the 4 stars who produced like 5*'s... Watson being the most important.

ND has to land a Jurkovec every 2 years and one of them needs to produce like a 5* whether they were or not, like Deshaun Watson did for Clemson. They need to hit on more difference makers at WR. Michael Floyd's don't come around very often but somehow ND has to land something along the lines of MF or Golden Tate every 2-3 years then a Jeff Smardzija or Will Fuller type who provides 5* production in alternating years. At RB Kelly has to keep doing what he's doing while keeping the difference makers out of his doghouse. Finally, they have to get consistent 5* production out of D linemen. The 2016 DE class is the type of class you need every 2-3 years. You also have to somehow land the Alfano's and Karlaftis' of the world, one way or the other, when they are knocking on your door.

Yep, it’s all about difference makers. Whether they are 3* or 5* doesn’t matter. 5* players just become difference makers at a much higher percentage.

 

[RDU Irish]

I'm as in tune with R&R's as anyone in the country, being #15 or #7 means nothing unless you have a couple of difference makers, most importantly at QB, then WR & DL. Yes, I want to win the beauty pageant that is the Rankings Game because of all the obvious reasons but championships can be won with the class rankings ND averages if they get more difference makers who play like 5*'s in college. The easiest way to do that is by landing some 5*'s.

Sad but true. Also think it is worth pointing out - your 5* offensive lineman is great but not nearly the game wrecker potential of a QB/WR/RB - really DT/DE too but you have to score points to win. I am a bit perplexed as I think we have a lot of WR talent but nobody is stepping up to that elite level and the young guys can't even find the field. Dex should have incredible career numbers at ND but didn't play until 1/3rd of the way thru senior year.

 

[Luckylucci]

Sad but true. Also think it is worth pointing out - your 5* offensive lineman is great but not nearly the game wrecker potential of a QB/WR/RB - really DT/DE too but you have to score points to win. I am a bit perplexed as I think we have a lot of WR talent but nobody is stepping up to that elite level and the young guys can't even find the field. Dex should have incredible career numbers at ND but didn't play until 1/3rd of the way thru senior year.

Well, the position certainly didn't lack production while he wasn't on the field. It's not like while he wasn't playing ND was struggling to run the ball. Josh Adams avg. 6.7 yds/carry for his career.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm as in tune with R&R's as anyone in the country, being #15 or #7 means nothing unless you have a couple of difference makers, most importantly at QB, then WR & DL. Yes, I want to win the beauty pageant that is the Rankings Game because of all the obvious reasons but championships can be won with the class rankings ND averages if they get more difference makers who play like 5*'s in college. The easiest way to do that is by landing some 5*'s.

The Clemson team that won the NC in '16 was comprised of the following rankings:

2016 Freshmen ....... #11
2015 Sophomores ... #9
2014 Juniors ........... #16
2013 Seniors ........... #15
2012 5th Years ........ #20

ND had better classes as far as rankings 3 of 5 years, avg'd #12 while Clemson avg'd #14. ND had higher APR 4 of 5 seasons and it's team avg was .9046 vs. Clemson's .8912. The difference is not just the number of 5*'s, it's the difference making production from some of the 5*'s and in their case, the 4 stars who produced like 5*'s... Watson being the most important.

ND has to land a Jurkovec every 2 years and one of them needs to produce like a 5* whether they were or not, like Deshaun Watson did for Clemson. They need to hit on more difference makers at WR. Michael Floyd's don't come around very often but somehow ND has to land something along the lines of MF or Golden Tate every 2-3 years then a Jeff Smardzija or Will Fuller type who provides 5* production in alternating years. At RB Kelly has to keep doing what he's doing while keeping the difference makers out of his doghouse. Finally, they have to get consistent 5* production out of D linemen. The 2016 DE class is the type of class you need every 2-3 years. You also have to somehow land the Alfano's and Karlaftis' of the world, one way or the other, when they are knocking on your door.

To add, our average is probably skewed up by OL and TE a bit over the cycles.

Clemson, in 2018 had like five 5*, and eight 95 or better. That was a good year, but most years they have multiple 5* guys, and several 95 or better. I know stars aren't everything, but it certainly is relevant. Development is a separate issue but I've questioned player development for years in certain position groups.

 

[snoopdog]

RS JR Tony Jones Jr.
RS SO Avery Davis
RS SO Jafar Armstrong
RS FR Jahmir Smith
RS FR C’Bo Flemister
FR Kyren Williams

The problem with their numbers is the fact that they couldn’t afford to probably take another running back this year because there would be a roster imbalance with 7 scholarship running backs. The problem I have with that is the fact that they could’ve, would’ve, should’ve held off on taking two 3* RB’s last cycle. If they take one of those dudes then they have an opportunity to take Chez Mellusi who’s an Army All American RB. I’d take Mellusi over almost all of the RB’s in ND’s room except maybe Jafar and Kyren. Hindsight is 20-20 tho. Hopefully next cycle they swing for the fences and don’t settle. I’d hope they just go after the top 15 RB’s in the cycle and keep at them instead of lowering their standards in the summer and making sure they hit their numbers. So far, ND has offers out to 8 of the top 16 composite RB’s in the country and they’ve gotten some traction with Chris Tyree which is huge. Hopefully they’ll be able to get him back in the spring for an OV!

Avery Davis?
C'Bo?
Jahmir Smith?
Kyren W?

The other two mehish so far.....

2020 has to be the year to get 2-3 stud 4 star RB's. Dex is done...there is no heir apparent. Give the recruitment of RB's over to Long....Denson hasn't got it done in 3 classes....time to make a proactive move to get this moving in the right direction.

And no I don't buy the excuse top RB's don't want to play at ND.

 

[Irish#1]

Still don’t care about team rankings, surprised anyone does. We signed a class that saw us beat a lot of other top P5 programs for some of these players. So, other coaches thought they could help them win a Championship. That should probably be considered. Lacey, Ekwonu, Hamilton, Nana, Kristofic, Carrol, Correll, and Rutherford were all highly competitive recruitments. Add Foskey as potentially another. It also saw us beat some rivals heads up for others.

Thank you.

 

[RDU Irish]

Well, the position certainly didn't lack production while he wasn't on the field. It's not like while he wasn't playing ND was struggling to run the ball. Josh Adams avg. 6.7 yds/carry for his career.

Plenty of carries to go around - unless you want Adams hobbled in November like he was. Dex couldn't find the field - except he did enough to burn eligibility. Elite players want to see they will play - Dex is a perfect example to negative recruit off of. NFL talent can't even get half a dozen touches per game and sits 1/4th of his senior season for something other schools probably provide.