2018 Master List

[BeauBenken]

And after the Opening Lamb to ND sounds probable which means McGrone doesn't have a spot. Simon is a strong ND lean. Griffith did not look good at the Opening playing corner. Donald Johnson, meh. I like the two Georgia corners better. They are both visiting this month. Kevin Austin and Tommy Tremble will be Irish before end of summer. Salyer is locked in for an official visit. Pretty sweet beginning to month of July.

I think the staff wants both Lamb and McGrone. As crazy as that may sound numbers wise.

 

[dwshade]

I think the staff wants both Lamb and McGrone. As crazy as that may sound numbers wise.

I don't see how that happens if you look at the numbers.

 

[BobbyMac]

I think the staff wants both Lamb and McGrone. As crazy as that may sound numbers wise.

With the possibility that one, maybe two current safeties aren't returning ND could already be at 24 spots for the class.

I think wanting both says mroe about how Elko and Lea feel about what they inherited in the Joneses, Adams and White. Maybe even Coney and Bilal too for all I know(?)

 

[PANDFAN]

yeah, just remember these guys we brought in weren't for his system...so it could just be writing on the wall

and koon...just remember these kids put up smoke screens...wouldn't buy into the hype simon is NOTHING BUT ND-IMO

 

[zelezo vlk]

yeah, just remember these guys we brought in weren't for his system...so it could just be writing on the wall

and koon...just remember these kids put up smoke screens...wouldn't buy into the hype simon is anything ND-IMO

Think Simon would've popped if ESPN would have still done the full thing with The Opening like previous years?

 

[dwshade]

Think Simon would've popped if ESPN would have still done the full thing with The Opening like previous years?

Not sure if Simon would have but I bet Austin definitely would have.

 

[dwshade]

With the possibility that one, maybe two current safeties aren't returning ND could already be at 24 spots for the class.

I think wanting both says mroe about how Elko and Lea feel about what they inherited in the Joneses, Adams and White. Maybe even Coney and Bilal too for all I know(?)

I believe those departures are included in the ones needed in order to get to 22 in this class. Prister seemed pretty certain 22 was the number.

 

[PANDFAN]

Think Simon would've popped if ESPN would have still done the full thing with The Opening like previous years?

Sorry meant simon is DEF leaning towards ND..and anything else is smoke screen IMO

 

[Big23Head]

<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/223989611" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
<p><a href="https://vimeo.com/223989611">Sam Taimani - The Opening Finals</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/blueandgold">BlueAndGold.com</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

 

[BobbyMac]

You guys were in the wrong thread:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have a new No. 1 player in the country from the class of 2018. Here is the updated rankings at <a href="https://twitter.com/247Sports">@247Sports</a> <a href="https://t.co/z1KK18tt3R">https://t.co/z1KK18tt3R</a> (FREE) <a href="https://t.co/4Rd10Nnuqh">pic.twitter.com/4Rd10Nnuqh</a></p>— Tom Loy (@TomLoy247) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomLoy247/status/884477730217234433">July 10, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wow, Fields took over Lawrence's spot. Good for him, that kid is a ballar from all accounts. I bet money he wins a national championship.

Look at OSU in the top 100. Good God.

Devin O'Rourke 139th best player in the nation and ND don't want him :S

After his Opening performance, how do they justify dropping Derrik Allen 11 spots?

Did he do that great? I heard he was good, but I didn't hear glowing reviews, or hear about him turning everyone's heads. Some of these kids balled out. Slayer and Fields obviously two of them.

IMO I think that's too high for him. No offers from ND, OSU, Michign or Mich. ST. He's 22 spots ahead of Jayson Oweh and I would take Oweh in a New York minute over O'Rourke. Derrik Allen not even a top 100 player? Ridiculous.

Everything I heard/read was fantastic. He also had one of the best plays of the entire event with his one handed interception. Weren't Slayer and Fields already ahead of him? I mean, he balled out and got passed by 11 dudes

UW having two top 100 QB's is interesting

This is why I take these rankings with a grain of salt. Allen is easily a top 100 player and I'd say that even if he were going to another school. And how did Master Teague go from nowhere to a top 50 player?

If you're highly rated, you can be really good and still fall. The best of the best end up at the Opening finals. Sometimes really good doesn't stack up against elite.

Yankoff got some big ones to go into UDub with Sirmon who has family ties to the school/program.

I can't believe SC isn't in the full court press on him.

If Phil J didn't exist, Yankoff would be right behind Justin Fields on my hit list.

No ND commits, Derrick Allen included, were mentioned as a 'top performer' on day 1, 2, or 3:

Day 1

Day 2

Day 3

 

[BobbyMac]

FYI on Derrik Allen -

He is still rated the same and actually moved up a spot in the safety rankings, he just got passed by some others on the Overall Board.

He's the best all around DB in the country and he's going to make a killer SS or Rover someday. Remember, this kid was the #2 or #3 CORNERBACK on the first lists generated by the services.

Wouldn't trade him Phil or Jayson Ade for anybody in the class. (I'm being loyal to Phil cuz Justin Fields be lookin like Deshaun Watson Jr. lately

 

[BobbyMac]

Loy with the CB for Telly Plummer.... to Louisville.


Time to offer some more guys. Lots of good ND demo guys out there.

Terrell Smith GA 3* (Minny) FAST
Taiyon Palmer GA 4* (Duke)
Jairus Brent KY 4* FAST
Trevon Moehrig-Woodard 4* TX (TCU)
Jaycee Horn 4* GA
Johnathan Gipson 3* GA
Noah Boykin 4* MD (Maryland)
Kenneth Dicks 3* GA FAST
Dallas Taylor-Cortez 3* CA
Dan Land 3* GA
Chris Smith 3* GA (UGA)
Ken Montgomery Jr 3* FL

Made his Top 5. He's a mystery recruit.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">Top 5.... <a href="https://t.co/3CotYUgF1U">pic.twitter.com/3CotYUgF1U</a></p>— Telly Plummer (@tempp16) <a href="https://twitter.com/tempp16/status/879112073590001665">June 25, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[KizerWilhelm]

Loy with the CB for Telly Plummer.... to Louisville.

Time to offer some more guys.

Not to belabor the point, but that's why I don't get backing off D.J. Johnson. I'd prefer if we had him in the bag, and then went CB hunting.

I guess worst comes to worst, we should be able to flip Birdsong in January.

 

[BobbyMac]

Not to belabor the point, but that's why I don't get backing off D.J. Johnson. I'd prefer if we had him in the bag, and then went CB hunting.

I guess worst comes to worst, we should be able to flip Birdsong in January.

...or Erick Hallet or Dominique Hampton or Cagan Campbell or Avery Young or Coach Alexander's cousin - Elisha Guidry.

 

[BobbyMac]

Louisville analyst CB's Telly Plummer to the Cards also.

 

[Big23Head]

Interesting offer

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Honored to say that God has blessed me with an offer and a opportunity to attend The University of Notre Dame!<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Fightin?src=hash">#Fightin</a>'Irish <a href="https://t.co/RomtbsEFvS">pic.twitter.com/RomtbsEFvS</a></p>— Isaak Togia (@isaak_togia) <a href="https://twitter.com/isaak_togia/status/887526146644070400">July 19, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[zelezo vlk]

Interesting offer

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Honored to say that God has blessed me with an offer and a opportunity to attend The University of Notre Dame!<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Fightin?src=hash">#Fightin</a>'Irish <a href="https://t.co/RomtbsEFvS">pic.twitter.com/RomtbsEFvS</a></p>— Isaak Togia (@isaak_togia) <a href="https://twitter.com/isaak_togia/status/887526146644070400">July 19, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Penn State offer. Intriguing

 

[dublinirish]

Interesting offer

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Honored to say that God has blessed me with an offer and a opportunity to attend The University of Notre Dame!<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Fightin?src=hash">#Fightin</a>'Irish <a href="https://t.co/RomtbsEFvS">pic.twitter.com/RomtbsEFvS</a></p>— Isaak Togia (@isaak_togia) <a href="https://twitter.com/isaak_togia/status/887526146644070400">July 19, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

feel like polian offers all the poly kids

 

[Big23Head]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">West Coast look at new Scout 100 including one new five-star, four new four-stars and biggest risers inside the 100 <a href="https://t.co/25GRG7oFxo">https://t.co/25GRG7oFxo</a> <a href="https://t.co/l6kfoYxBRg">pic.twitter.com/l6kfoYxBRg</a></p>— Greg Biggins (@GregBiggins) <a href="https://twitter.com/GregBiggins/status/887706290360688640">July 19, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/scoutrecruiting">@scoutrecruiting</a> Post-Summer Scout 300 for 2018 is out <a href="https://t.co/nqOYd5or04">https://t.co/nqOYd5or04</a> <a href="https://t.co/eB8bgztkxE">pic.twitter.com/eB8bgztkxE</a></p>— Brandon Huffman (@BrandonHuffman) <a href="https://twitter.com/BrandonHuffman/status/887704847218163712">July 19, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[NDdomer2]

2018 CB Recruiting (all numbers from 247 offer list)

Total Offers: 25 (247 lists 21, i believe 4 of the ATH offers are for CB, I did not count any recruits listed as a Safety - please feel free to let me know if any of those recruits were offered as CBs)

Committed to Other Schools: 12

Listed as "Warm" interest: 4, see below(i understand this may not be best indicator of interest but generally if 247 has listed as "cool" there aint much going on)

4 IN Donald Johnson - staff was supposedly not impressed with in person evaluation, reportedly not pushing hard, CBs to Iowa
3 GA Donte Burton - recent visit, some hoped for commitment, read in his thread there may be a books issue, CBs to ND
3 GA Telly Plummer - recently cancelled visit, CBs to Lousiville
3 Tariq Bracy - literally only thing on this kid's timeline is the ND offer. Offer list is not impressive but who knows if accurate. CB to ND

Am I missing something or do we not have near enough offers out? Is 247 not accurately showing some of these others as interested?

If ND goes 3-3 with Johnson, Burton, and Bracy, does that fill our needs number wise? (i dont believe we are losing too many but after 0 last year do we need 4 (2/year avg))

 

[Luckylucci]

2018 CB Recruiting (all numbers from 247 offer list)

Total Offers: 25 (247 lists 21, i believe 4 of the ATH offers are for CB, I did not count any recruits listed as a Safety - please feel free to let me know if any of those recruits were offered as CBs)

Committed to Other Schools: 12

Listed as "Warm" interest: 4, see below(i understand this may not be best indicator of interest but generally if 247 has listed as "cool" there aint much going on)
4 IN Donald Johnson - staff was supposedly not impressed with in person evaluation, reportedly not pushing hard, CBs to Iowa
3 GA Donte Burton - recent visit, some hoped for commitment, read in his thread there may be a books issue, CBs to ND
3 GA Telly Plummer - recently cancelled visit, CBs to Lousiville
3 Tariq Bracy - literally only thing on this kid's timeline is the ND offer. Offer list is not impressive but who knows if accurate. CB to ND

Am I missing something or do we not have near enough offers out? Is 247 not accurately showing some of these others as interested?

If ND goes 3-3 with Johnson, Burton, and Bracy, does that fill our needs number wise? (i dont believe we are losing too many but after 0 last year do we need 4 (2/year avg))

I would not use that as a metric for accuracy regarding recruits and their interest in certain schools. That can be updated by any 247 writer at any time. I've seen countless times where Loy or Wiltfong admit that they pay almost zero attention to it. Just not a feature that the 247 people find as a value add.

If you include the 16' class, where we signed 3 CB's, then that gets you to 6 over 3 classes (provided we add 3 this cycle), and at that 2/cycle avg. As of today, we should return all CB's from our current depth chart. Watkins could certainly ball out and leave but that's TBD. None of the 3 16' CB's seem like early entrant possibilities at this point. So I think 3 is the target number, save for a really good CB like D'Shawn Jamison wanting in last minute, then you could push it to 4.

At this point, I don't think you'll see a ton of movement with CB recruiting for the rest of the summer. Obviously try and get a few guys to campus here and there but I would expect we try and setup OV"s for the guys we've offered, and wait for Senior film before we hand out new offers.

 

[NDdomer2]

I would not use that as a metric for accuracy regarding recruits and their interest in certain schools. That can be updated by any 247 writer at any time. I've seen countless times where Loy or Wiltfong admit that they pay almost zero attention to it. Just not a feature that the 247 people find as a value add.

If you include the 16' class, where we signed 3 CB's, then that gets you to 6 over 3 classes (provided we add 3 this cycle), and at that 2/cycle avg. As of today, we should return all CB's from our current depth chart. Watkins could certainly ball out and leave but that's TBD. None of the 3 16' CB's seem like early entrant possibilities at this point. So I think 3 is the target number, save for a really good CB like D'Shawn Jamison wanting in last minute, then you could push it to 4.

At this point, I don't think you'll see a ton of movement with CB recruiting for the rest of the summer. Obviously try and get a few guys to campus here and there but I would expect we try and setup OV"s for the guys we've offered, and wait for Senior film before we hand out new offers.

to Point 1. I knew it wasnt the best but there isnt really much else as far as general list on the recruiting sites to indicate if interest is high or not. Do you believe out of the current CB offers out that there are others having high interest?

To point 2: is it safe to say that we missed on all our "tier 1" CB offers? ND is holding serve with it's "tier 2" offers as mentioned.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Jason Oweh/Thomas Booker/Donte Burton may only be a 90% fit. Does not mean we should not be landing them when we're making them a priority and they're paying to visit, and by all accounts, leaning towards ND.

This is what I feel the staff is failing to do with the likes of McGrone, Oweh, Burton, Austin, Booker, etc. And these are kids that in one way or another were ND leans, or close to being leans at one point.

I guess I'm not sure why I shouldn't expect USC and UCLA and Michigan and OSU and Stanford and Texas and Alabama to beat us every year for some recruits (even some that look like good fits at ND), and to beat us more often coming off such a bad season. They all have different things to offer, and some can look a lot like ND to the untrained eye.

Recruiting is a tricky business. I reserve my recruiting ire for things the staff can control, like slow-playing kids we need or not communicating with a kid on a regular basis. For example, I would hate to lose a CB to Iowa for any reason other than "we have no earthly idea, he just really clicked with that Coach."

If a world-class athlete decides that he'll take his chances with an Ohio State business degree in order to play for one of the winningest coaches in recent history... that seems pretty understandable. Even if I see things differently.

Booker has been a Stanford-lean the whole time. He got a 1470 on his SAT. If he chooses Stanford... that seems pretty understandable. They recruit too! If we get him, I think the coaches deserve a lot of credit.

 

[koonja]

I guess I'm not sure why I shouldn't expect USC and UCLA and Michigan and OSU and Stanford and Texas and Alabama to beat us every year for some recruits (even some that look like good fits at ND), and to beat us more often coming off such a bad season. They all have different things to offer, and some can look a lot like ND to the untrained eye.

Recruiting is a tricky business. I reserve my recruiting ire for things the staff can control, like slow-playing kids we need or not communicating with a kid on a regular basis. For example, I would hate to lose a CB to Iowa for any reason other than "we have no earthly idea, he just really clicked with that Coach."

If a world-class athlete decides that he'll take his chances with an Ohio State business degree in order to play for one of the winningest coaches in recent history... that seems pretty understandable. Even if I see things differently.

Booker has been a Stanford-lean the whole time. He got a 1470 on his SAT. If he chooses Stanford... that seems pretty understandable. They recruit too! If we get him, I think the coaches deserve a lot of credit.

That is the attitude of a ND fan who's accepting we're a second tier option for football players. That's not the case, so the staff shouldn't recruit (or get results) like a 2nd tier option.

OSU/Michigan/Stanford should win their fair share of battles - but I'm specifically concerned about the activity around guys who we were at the top for, or in the top 3 at worst for, who visited 1-2 times this summer. We're good enough to close on those types. Maybe not all, but more than we are.

 

[Luckylucci]

I think some of you are far too accepting of a kid having a manufactured reason for not coming to ND.

All of a sudden "distance is a factor" or "academics aren't a big deal" for Oweh, yet he wants to go to OSU and you cross him off as "what can you do about it if he has said-reason". Give him a reason to come here when he visits - overcome a concern be it distance, depth chart, fit, etc - great recruiters do this. There's very rarely an absolutely perfect fit for a kid at a school - you have to overcome objections with great recruiting. We should still win recruitments we get visits for when a kid fits only 90% of what we sell, we should still close better than we are IMO. We do not need them to be walking academic scholars who prefer 2-TE offenses/Indiana/Cold weather/etc.

Marquis Stepp may be a 100% fit for ND.
Jason Oweh/Thomas Booker/Donte Burton may only be a 90% fit. Does not mean we should not be landing them when we're making them a priority and they're paying to visit, and by all accounts, leaning towards ND.

This is what I feel the staff is failing to do with the likes of McGrone, Oweh, Burton, Austin, Booker, etc. And these are kids that in one way or another were ND leans, or close to being leans at one point.

Precisely like we are with Smith and potentially Simon and Lacey?

The difference between us, I don't have a narrative that I'm trying to spew. What you are doing is essentially looking at all and only the negatives of recruiting or the losses, even willing to make stuff up, to try and fit the narrative.

The reality is we are going to miss on more kids than we sign, it's simply a numbers game. Its just the way it is at all but 1 or 2 schools. Clemson offered Austin can't crack his top 5. Clemson offered Booker, can't crack his top group. Clemson offered Lacey, he's probably going to commit to ND. Does that mean Clemson recruiting sucks? No, but some turd could get behind a keyboard and beat those recruitments to death and explain how that illustrates poor recruiting. Because Clemson will offer more kids than it signs, by HUGE margin.

Is ND recruiting fantastic right now? No, but surely doesn't constitute this sky falling crap you keep heaving at the board, to see if it sticks. It's somewhat pathetic. Stretching the truth and hoping that nobody calls you out on it. Blaming the staff that they can't close Austin or Burton before their intended commitment timeframes, give me a break. That's as trollish as it gets.

 

[Luckylucci]

That is the attitude of a ND fan who's accepting we're a second tier option for football players. That's not the case, so the staff shouldn't recruit (or get results) like a 2nd tier option.

OSU/Michigan/Stanford should win their fair share of battles - but I'm specifically concerned about the activity around guys who we were at the top for, or in the top 3 at worst for, who visited 1-2 times this summer. We're good enough to close on those types. Maybe not all, but more than we are.

Again, essentially you're entire narrative revolves around the concept that you perceived certain prospects should be making a decision on your timeline or this fictitious expected timeline from the staff. The only thing that does is fit your narrative. It doesn't tell the whole story.

I could spin it and say, we are doing such a great job recruiting Booker that he hasn't committed to Stanford yet. They were the clear cut favorite when his whole recruiting process began, he spent an entire month on campus, and the fact that he hasn't committed must mean Stanford can't close and ND is going to get him, right?

 

[koonja]

Precisely like we are with Smith and potentially Simon and Lacey?

The difference between us, I don't have a narrative that I'm trying to spew. What you are doing is essentially looking at all and only the negatives of recruiting or the losses, even willing to make stuff up, to try and fit the narrative.

The reality is we are going to miss on more kids than we sign, it's simply a numbers game. Its just the way it is at all but 1 or 2 schools. Clemson offered Austin can't crack his top 5. Clemson offered Booker, can't crack his top group. Clemson offered Lacey, he's probably going to commit to ND. Does that mean Clemson recruiting sucks? No, but some turd could get behind a keyboard and beat those recruitments to death and explain how that illustrates poor recruiting. Because Clemson will offer more kids than it signs, by HUGE margin.

Is ND recruiting fantastic right now? No, but surely doesn't constitute this sky falling crap you keep heaving at the board, to see if it sticks. It's somewhat pathetic. Stretching the truth and hoping that nobody calls you out on it. Blaming the staff that they can't close Austin or Burton before their intended commitment timeframes, give me a break. That's as trollish as it gets.

Again, essentially you're entire narrative revolves around the concept that you perceived certain prospects should be making a decision on your timeline or this fictitious expected timeline from the staff. The only thing that does is fit your narrative. It doesn't tell the whole story.

I could spin it and say, we are doing such a great job recruiting Booker that he hasn't committed to Stanford yet. They were the clear cut favorite when his whole recruiting process began, he spent an entire month on campus, and the fact that he hasn't committed must mean Stanford can't close and ND is going to get him, right?

I'm not trolling, and my narrative is simply that I don't think ND should be taking a back seat to whatever teams we're competing against when we are in someone's top 2, and they make the effort to visit.

ND, as a football institution, should not be taking a back seat for Booker simply because Stanford has better academics. We have 100 things Stanford doesn't - real fans, packed house, distance to home, exposure, etc.

ND should not be taking a backseat to OSU for Oweh, who'd be a 2-3 year starter here and a household name, whereas he'll struggle to ever start at OSU.

ND should not have to wait out on a 3-star CB who comes in with ND as the strong leader and has told reporters he's opening to committing on the visit (this is Burton, and that was communicated to reporters).

ND should not have to take a backseat to Michigan for in state recruits because "Harbaugh".

Burton told reporters he'd consider committing on his visit. Booker has nothing else to see before making his decision. Same with Austin. McGrone/Simon - we'll see. Reporters said Simon could commit as early as II.

These are not made up timelines. If you think Pete Sampson, Matt Freeman, etc are making up dates, that's fine - but the recruits and/or families are the ones who tell these people whether they're ready to commit or not.

Burton comes in, open to committing, now wants to take his time. Tommy Tremble, now taking longer than originally thought. Goes on and on.

 

[Luckylucci]

I'm not trolling, and my narrative is simply that I don't think ND should be taking a back seat to whatever teams we're competing against when we are in someone's top 2, and they make the effort to visit.

ND, as a football institution, should not be taking a back seat for Booker simply because Stanford has better academics. We have 100 things Stanford doesn't - real fans, packed house, distance to home, exposure, etc.

ND should not be taking a backseat to OSU for Oweh, who'd be a 2-3 year starter here and a household name, whereas he'll struggle to ever start at OSU.

ND should not have to wait out on a 3-star CB who comes in with ND as the strong leader and has told reporters he's opening to committing on the visit (this is Burton, and that was communicated to reporters).

ND should not have to take a backseat to Michigan for in state recruits because "Harbaugh".

Burton told reporters he'd consider committing on his visit. Booker has nothing else to see before making his decision. Same with Austin. McGrone/Simon - we'll see. Reporters said Simon could commit as early as II.

These are not made up timelines. If you think Pete Sampson, Matt Freeman, etc are making up dates, that's fine - but the recruits and/or families are the ones who tell these people whether they're ready to commit or not.

Burton comes in, open to committing, now wants to take his time. Tommy Tremble, now taking longer than originally thought. Goes on and on.

We aren't, you are simply using examples to fit the narrative versus looking at the whole picture. Classic trolling behavior. Where are we taking a backseat with Smith, Simon, and Lacey. Simon visited UM and ND, ND should get his commitment. Lacey visited Clemson, UM, and ND should get his commitment. Smith visited Tenn. and UNC, ND "closed" him 3 days after his commitment. What about Phil J, Jayson A., Derrik Allen, etc. Those are guys that have a bunch of visits and offers from big time programs under their belts. ND "closed" them at one point or another.

One of us wants to acknowledge all facts, and one of us wants to acknowledge the facts that support their narrative.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I'm not trolling, and my narrative is simply that I don't think ND should be taking a back seat to whatever teams we're competing against when we are in someone's top 2, and they make the effort to visit.

ND, as a football institution, should not be taking a back seat for Booker simply because Stanford has better academics. We have 100 things Stanford doesn't - real fans, packed house, distance to home, exposure, etc.

Booker is actually a great example. He goes to Gilman in Baltimore. We have not landed anyone of note from that school despite the academic match and their very good program (they've sent recent kids to Michigan, OSU, Alabama, etc.), since Ambrose Wooden (second tier player) and Victor Abimiri (after he had to rescind an acceptance to Maryland when it was discovered his recruiter gave him an illegal gift).

Why? It may have been their long-time coach, who was not a big fan of ND-- but who has now left and whose son is a senior at Michigan. It wasn't the school itself. They certainly send a lot of lacrosse players to ND.

At the same time, the internal forces at that school are also likely to make Booker favor Stanford. Gilman is very deliberate about putting their graduates in the most prestigious possible schools, and while ND is prestigious and is known for a nearly peerless undergraduate experience, some of the Ivy's and Stanford still have a different cache.

The fact that Booker goes to a 420 person private school, rather than a bigger sports factory says something.

The point is that there are a lot of forces at work that aren't just about salesmanship on ND's part.

 

[BeauBenken]

I'm not trolling, and my narrative is simply that I don't think ND should be taking a back seat to whatever teams we're competing against when we are in someone's top 2, and they make the effort to visit.

ND, as a football institution, should not be taking a back seat for Booker simply because Stanford has better academics. We have 100 things Stanford doesn't - real fans, packed house, distance to home, exposure, etc.

ND should not be taking a backseat to OSU for Oweh, who'd be a 2-3 year starter here and a household name, whereas he'll struggle to ever start at OSU.

ND should not have to wait out on a 3-star CB who comes in with ND as the strong leader and has told reporters he's opening to committing on the visit (this is Burton, and that was communicated to reporters).

ND should not have to take a backseat to Michigan for in state recruits because "Harbaugh".

Burton told reporters he'd consider committing on his visit. Booker has nothing else to see before making his decision. Same with Austin. McGrone/Simon - we'll see. Reporters said Simon could commit as early as II.

These are not made up timelines. If you think Pete Sampson, Matt Freeman, etc are making up dates, that's fine - but the recruits and/or families are the ones who tell these people whether they're ready to commit or not.

Burton comes in, open to committing, now wants to take his time. Tommy Tremble, now taking longer than originally thought. Goes on and on.

Burton was open to committing this month depending on how ALL of his visits went, but he had always planned to commit after his official visits - per Matt Freeman of ISD.

Burton isn’t rushing his decision and plans to commit after his official visits, but he isn’t ruling out a commitment before for the summer ends.

“It could come before my official visits,” said Burton. “It depends on how the visits go this month."

Tommy Tremble was expected to take his official visits before committing - per Matt Freeman of ISD. After his visit, Tremble said:

“After July, I’m going to take all of my official visits and I’ll probably commit after that.”

He kept feeling so good about ND after his unofficial visit that reporters got the idea that he got close to pulling the trigger, but after visiting his dad's alma mater, Georgia, Tremble likely decided to go back to taking all his official visits before committing again.

So no, both of those guys are just simply sticking to their original timelines and both have announced ND as their leader - Burton outright and Tremble throwing the word "maybe" in front of it.