2018-2019 Notre Dame Men's Basketball

[arrowryan]

What? Who are you referring to by injuries? Rex isn't good? Nate, DJ, and Juwan's careers are over, write them off too...

That is an awful, awful take.

edit: Also, as much as I love Carmody (he is one my favorites), what has he proven to show that he is better than a Rex, DJ, Nate, etc?

I'm talking about the guys who missed significant amount of time. Laz and Durham didn't miss a crazy amount of time. At lest not in my opinion.

I've had the same opinion about Rex for a long time. He's the Joe Schmidt of Notre Dame basketball; meaning that his leadership is his best quality. A huge liability on offense, but he is pretty good on defense. Another guy, even though I don't think he was ever injured, is Burns. Whether he was still on the team or not, he wasn't adding anything in the win column.

DJ Harvey is an interesting one for me. I'd say that he has not lived up to expectations. But he still has two years of eligibility. He's entering his junior season, that seems to be the year that kids break onto the scene for Brey.

I'm not ready to write off Carmody like I am with other guys like Rex and Djogo. That's why he's an exception. Way too early in his career.

But, compared to other ACC teams and outside of the freshman class, the talent on the roster is pretty minimal.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I'm talking about the guys who missed significant amount of time. Laz and Durham didn't miss a crazy amount of time. At lest not in my opinion.

I've had the same opinion about Rex for a long time. He's the Joe Schmidt of Notre Dame basketball; meaning that his leadership is his best quality. A huge liability on offense, but he is pretty good on defense. Another guy, even though I don't think he was ever injured, is Burns. Whether he was still on the team or not, he wasn't adding anything in the win column.

DJ Harvey is an interesting one for me. I'd say that he has not lived up to expectations. But he still has two years of eligibility. He's entering his junior season, that seems to be the year that kids break onto the scene for Brey.

I'm not ready to write off Carmody like I am with other guys like Rex and Djogo. That's why he's an exception. Way too early in his career.

But, compared to other ACC teams and outside of the freshman class, the talent on the roster is pretty minimal.

"other than where we're good, we're bad"
Ok. Lol.

Keep comparing the program to Duke, UNC, Louisville recruiting. Maybe if Brey paid players more and gave them some diploma mill degrees...

 

[arrowryan]

"other than where we're good, we're bad"
Ok. Lol.

Keep comparing the program to Duke, UNC, Louisville recruiting. Maybe if Brey paid players more and gave them some diploma mill degrees...

No where in my post am I comparing Notre Dame to the blue bloods.

For a coach that has been in South Bend for 20 years, the freshman class shouldn't be the only bright spot of the team. His coaching MO has been veteran teams with most, if not all, of the starters being older guys. All of a sudden, in 2019, he's got three starting freshmen in some games. 99% of this can be blamed on...

Mike Brey sand bagged recruiting for multiple years before the 2018 class and we felt the ramifications of that this season. We can say "the team is young" and "the freshmen look good" all day long and those statements are true. But this 100% could've been avoided if Brey recruited better. Sadly, it doesn't look like that is changing anytime soon because we have a big fat zero total commitments for the next class. We've had this convo before, so I'm not going to go any further.

Guys like Harvey and Gibbs not progressing their game doesn't help either.

We clearly have different views of the team. But until Brey can consistently recruit year in and year out (one good class every 4 years doesn't count), we're gonna see a lot of 2018-2019 seasons. And when I say consistently recruit, I'm saying he needs top 10 classes. He just needs capable bodies because I know he'll be able to develop them. If the 2019, 2020, and 2021 classes are trash, then the 2018 class will only get the team so far.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I'm talking about the guys who missed significant amount of time. Laz and Durham didn't miss a crazy amount of time. At lest not in my opinion.

Missing time is one thing, but Durham has been playing hurt for the last couple of months. Laz is 6'10 and 200 pounds soaking wet. There's no reason he should be playing interior right now, other than we have no other legitimate options that are healthy.

I've had the same opinion about Rex for a long time. He's the Joe Schmidt of Notre Dame basketball; meaning that his leadership is his best quality. A huge liability on offense, but he is pretty good on defense. Another guy, even though I don't think he was ever injured, is Burns. Whether he was still on the team or not, he wasn't adding anything in the win column.

Rex provided a lot more than you insinuate. He was not only a big leader, but he kept the ball moving. His shot was pretty bad, but that's about par for the course this season, but the offense flowed much better with him in and to say he was just "pretty good" on defense isn't doing him justice. He was legit defensively.

DJ Harvey is an interesting one for me. I'd say that he has not lived up to expectations. But he still has two years of eligibility. He's entering his junior season, that seems to be the year that kids break onto the scene for Brey.

Harvey spent the entire offseason rehabbing a bad knee. He wasn't able to practice within the system or condition himself at all, because of his rehab.

I'm not ready to write off Carmody like I am with other guys like Rex and Djogo. That's why he's an exception. Way too early in his career.

But, compared to other ACC teams and outside of the freshman class, the talent on the roster is pretty minimal.

I would disagree. The rest of the ACC, for the most part, was MUCH more experienced than ND, and that is an understatement. ND has plenty of talent to work with, but much of it is freshman talent.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

No where in my post am I comparing Notre Dame to the blue bloods.

For a coach that has been in South Bend for 20 years, the freshman class shouldn't be the only bright spot of the team. His coaching MO has been veteran teams with most, if not all, of the starters being older guys. All of a sudden, in 2019, he's got three starting freshmen in some games. 99% of this can be blamed on...

Mike Brey sand bagged recruiting for multiple years before the 2018 class and we felt the ramifications of that this season. We can say "the team is young" and "the freshmen look good" all day long and those statements are true. But this 100% could've been avoided if Brey recruited better. Sadly, it doesn't look like that is changing anytime soon because we have a big fat zero total commitments for the next class. We've had this convo before, so I'm not going to go any further.

Guys like Harvey and Gibbs not progressing their game doesn't help either.

We clearly have different views of the team. But until Brey can consistently recruit year in and year out (one good class every 4 years doesn't count), we're gonna see a lot of 2018-2019 seasons. And when I say consistently recruit, I'm saying he needs top 10 classes. He just needs capable bodies because I know he'll be able to develop them. If the 2019, 2020, and 2021 classes are trash, then the 2018 class will only get the team so far.

1) You literally said, "compared to the rest of the ACC", so I listed some teams that have "better recruits".

2) DJ has played, maybe, one full season's worth of games. With zero full off-seasons on a college campus...Say what you will about Hubb, but DJ shouldn't be written off yet.

I'm still livid about your take with Rex. That guy is a stud defender, greater rebounder, greater passer (given his position) and shot 39% from deep this year...

 

[arrowryan]

1) You literally said, "compared to the rest of the ACC", so I listed some teams that have "better recruits".

2) DJ has played, maybe, one full season's worth of games. With zero full off-seasons on a college campus...Say what you will about Hubb, but DJ shouldn't be written off yet.

I'm still livid about your take with Rex. That guy is a stud defender, greater rebounder, greater passer (given his position) and shot 39% from deep this year...

I compare Notre Dame to ACC schools that recruit the same kind of player. Notre Dame doesn't recruit the same players as Duke or UNC. Not consistently anyway.

Maybe Rex's 3 point % was pretty good because he only averaged three 3 point attempts a game. Before his injury, he averaged just 8 points a game and shot 39%. I would expect more from a 4 year player that doesn't play in an offense with a lot of scorers.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I compare Notre Dame to ACC schools that recruit the same kind of player. Notre Dame doesn't recruit the same players as Duke or UNC. Not consistently anyway.

Maybe Rex's 3 point % was pretty good because he only averaged three 3 point attempts a game. Before his injury, he averaged just 8 points a game and shot 39%. I would expect more from a 4 year player that doesn't play in an offense with a lot of scorers.

If you want a larger sample size, he's shot 35% from deep for his career. And 39% from the floor, overall, for his career. That's pretty damn respectable for "just a defender". My point is, he's one of the only "old guys" and happens to be solid on one and great on the other... He was a huge, huge loss.

 

[RDU Irish]

Rex makes everyone around him better and can't be ignored on the offensive end. 35% from three would have been second on the team behind Mooney so LOL at the "offensive liability" hot take. That is damn good compliment to any offense if you can't leave your #4 or #5 scoring option open to drain them at a 35% clip. Versus having ONE guy make that bogey who is also the ONE guy the other team needs to stop.

Gibbs going from 40% to 32% from three is just insurmountably bad for a junior leader. Can't think of a single game he kept us in and willed the team to a win (because we lost every damn close game). I hope he can find his game but right now he is a bit of a train wreck relying on refs bailing him out and pretty much nothing else.

Mooney was the only consistently good player and had an underrated all-ACC season with absolutely nothing around him. Third team for him is insulting to me - I hate the popularity contests those things turn in to, show some respect to the student athlete carrying an entire team over the one-and-done playing college for five months with a couple other NBA lottery picks.

I was encouraged by Laz coming alive near the end of the season - much more aggressive rebounding and finding his groove a bit. Like the idea of Mooney, Durham, Laz on the floor at the same time next year. Durham should make a big jump just from a conditioning standpoint - ridiculous upside if he can do a fraction of the improvement we saw in Mooney!

Hubb - can't stand his fidgety free throw shot and feel like his shot needs a lot of work mechanically before he can be a reliable scorer. One more ten second call bringing it up and he can ship off to Tibet for all I care. Blows my freaking mind. If I had as much confidence in our guard development as big man development I would be keener on him - hope he can sort it out though.

Goodwin - I think just got over his head. Like the tools and when he stops thinking will be a better, more consistent player.

 

[BabyIrish]

Rex is the reason we've won a ton of games during his time at ND, including the victory over Purdue this year. Look at our record after he went down, it's not a coincidence that it's pretty awful. We needed Rex on this floor to be decent, and we will certainly need him on the floor next year to make a run.

I'm not sure why the freshman get a pass because they aren't properly conditioned or have been in a college S&C. They've all played basketball there entire life including the AAU level playing multiple games on the same day. The freshman at Duke, Kentucky, etc. don't seem to have that problem. Outside of Hubb they should have been better. That's not to say they won't be next year, I think they will, but there play was disappointing and inconsistent this year especially on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[stpeteirish]

Rex is the reason we've won a ton of games during his time at ND, including the victory over Purdue this year. Look at our record after he went down, it's not a coincidence that it's pretty awful. We needed Rex on this floor to be decent, and we will certainly need him on the floor next year to make a run.

I'm not sure why the freshman get a pass because they aren't properly conditioned or have been in a college S&C. They've all played basketball there entire life including the AAU level playing multiple games on the same day. The freshman at Duke, Kentucky, etc. don't seem to have that problem. Outside of Hubb they should have been better. That's not to say they won't be next year, I think they will, but there play was disappointing and inconsistent this year especially on the offensive side of the ball.

Amen on both counts. The Frosh were collectively quite a bit worse than I expected. They better improve A LOT to get us in the top half of the ACC.

Gibbs regressing big time was a real surprise too. I don't know what went wrong. Can we can really count on him getting better next year? Not unless you know what to fix.

 

[IrishLax]

I don’t think it’s ever fair to judge a frosh... really in any sport, but especially in football/basketball. Matt Farrell was borderline unplayable as a frosh, there were people on here legitimately questioning why he was a scholarship player. Look how he finished his career. Not every frosh is going to be Zion Williamson or Trevor Lawrence.

So especially given the injuries and youth and everything else I’m not going to write off this team. I’m strictly in wait and see mode.

 

[Woneone]

We may need to pump the brakes a bit on this Rex stuff. I'll be the first to admit we miss him as a leader, much more than I ever would have thought, but there is a bit of hyperbole going on.

I've seen the 39% from three this year and how we miss his shooting. That's really disingenuous. He was 8-8 in two games. The other 8, he was 5-28. That's also with a 3pt % rate almost 13 points higher than the previous year, which, for a mid 30% career 3pt shooter, probably isn't the direction you want to trend (although, his 2pt fg % has dropped year over year since his sophomore year, so maybe its a good thing. His eFG did increase, so maybe it's by design).

We're talking about a guy who averages 8-4-4 for his career so far. I get his worth is beyond offensive stats, but I want to make sure the discussion isn't that he's the "missing piece" to a potentially great team. He's a much better leader than given credit, a versatile defender who isn't going to give easy looks, and rebounds well. If anything, his ability to distribute this year was his most glaring tangible asset. If you suggest any area of play of his is "Great", then that's a low bar being set for greatness.

I say all that (OMG YOU HATE REX) to say this, if I had to pick one player to up his game next year and be that player who breaks out, it would be him. Not in the typical John Mooney/Jack Cooley way, but as one of the guys you can actually count on game after game. He shouldn't have to score or be a volume shooter. He can do what he does best - Distribute (never would have said that last year)/Defend/Lead. What I saw of him this year, if you get better play from others, I feel confident you can plug him into any line-up we throw out and feel good about that spot on the court.

Now, if he does play (and I'm sure no matter what, Brey will play him) - who sits? Who plays? I know the obvious answer from everyone is "Sit Djogo". But he's literally the only guy other than Mooney I trust to rebound is Djogo. Especially if we're hellbent on playing Mooney as much as possible at the 5.

When a player comes up in discussion, the talk turns to how "good" they are/could be. If that's the case, you can't play them all. I actually think we'll see a transfer before the start of next season, especially if we have a grad transfer now that we missed on Mitchell.

 

[BabyIrish]

I don’t think it’s ever fair to judge a frosh... really in any sport, but especially in football/basketball. Matt Farrell was borderline unplayable as a frosh, there were people on here legitimately questioning why he was a scholarship player. Look how he finished his career. Not every frosh is going to be Zion Williamson or Trevor Lawrence.

So especially given the injuries and youth and everything else I’m not going to write off this team. I’m strictly in wait and see mode.

I get what you are saying but at the same time, Farrell's recruiting ranking was pretty low and we were really his only major offer besides BC. He was always a project. I'm not necessarily down on there play, but I don't think strength and conditioning should be the excuse as to why they were inconsistent. If anything, it probably has to do with more of the mental aspect of the game and learning Brey's system.

 

[RDU Irish]

We may need to pump the brakes a bit on this Rex stuff. I'll be the first to admit we miss him as a leader, much more than I ever would have thought, but there is a bit of hyperbole going on.

I've seen the 39% from three this year and how we miss his shooting. That's really disingenuous. He was 8-8 in two games. The other 8, he was 5-28. That's also with a 3pt % rate almost 13 points higher than the previous year, which, for a mid 30% career 3pt shooter, probably isn't the direction you want to trend (although, his 2pt fg % has dropped year over year since his sophomore year, so maybe its a good thing. His eFG did increase, so maybe it's by design).

We're talking about a guy who averages 8-4-4 for his career so far. I get his worth is beyond offensive stats, but I want to make sure the discussion isn't that he's the "missing piece" to a potentially great team. He's a much better leader than given credit, a versatile defender who isn't going to give easy looks, and rebounds well. If anything, his ability to distribute this year was his most glaring tangible asset. If you suggest any area of play of his is "Great", then that's a low bar being set for greatness.

I say all that (OMG YOU HATE REX) to say this, if I had to pick one player to up his game next year and be that player who breaks out, it would be him. Not in the typical John Mooney/Jack Cooley way, but as one of the guys you can actually count on game after game. He shouldn't have to score or be a volume shooter. He can do what he does best - Distribute (never would have said that last year)/Defend/Lead. What I saw of him this year, if you get better play from others, I feel confident you can plug him into any line-up we throw out and feel good about that spot on the court.

Now, if he does play (and I'm sure no matter what, Brey will play him) - who sits? Who plays? I know the obvious answer from everyone is "Sit Djogo". But he's literally the only guy other than Mooney I trust to rebound is Djogo. Especially if we're hellbent on playing Mooney as much as possible at the 5.

When a player comes up in discussion, the talk turns to how "good" they are/could be. If that's the case, you can't play them all. I actually think we'll see a transfer before the start of next season, especially if we have a grad transfer now that we missed on Mitchell.

Rex is an elite defender - hard to get a look when Rex doesn't let you get the ball in the first place. Doesn't mean as much when your team struggles to score 50 though.

 

[BabyIrish]

We may need to pump the brakes a bit on this Rex stuff. I'll be the first to admit we miss him as a leader, much more than I ever would have thought, but there is a bit of hyperbole going on.

I've seen the 39% from three this year and how we miss his shooting. That's really disingenuous. He was 8-8 in two games. The other 8, he was 5-28. That's also with a 3pt % rate almost 13 points higher than the previous year, which, for a mid 30% career 3pt shooter, probably isn't the direction you want to trend (although, his 2pt fg % has dropped year over year since his sophomore year, so maybe its a good thing. His eFG did increase, so maybe it's by design).

We're talking about a guy who averages 8-4-4 for his career so far. I get his worth is beyond offensive stats, but I want to make sure the discussion isn't that he's the "missing piece" to a potentially great team. He's a much better leader than given credit, a versatile defender who isn't going to give easy looks, and rebounds well. If anything, his ability to distribute this year was his most glaring tangible asset. If you suggest any area of play of his is "Great", then that's a low bar being set for greatness.

I say all that (OMG YOU HATE REX) to say this, if I had to pick one player to up his game next year and be that player who breaks out, it would be him. Not in the typical John Mooney/Jack Cooley way, but as one of the guys you can actually count on game after game. He shouldn't have to score or be a volume shooter. He can do what he does best - Distribute (never would have said that last year)/Defend/Lead. What I saw of him this year, if you get better play from others, I feel confident you can plug him into any line-up we throw out and feel good about that spot on the court.

Now, if he does play (and I'm sure no matter what, Brey will play him) - who sits? Who plays? I know the obvious answer from everyone is "Sit Djogo". But he's literally the only guy other than Mooney I trust to rebound is Djogo. Especially if we're hellbent on playing Mooney as much as possible at the 5.

When a player comes up in discussion, the talk turns to how "good" they are/could be. If that's the case, you can't play them all. I actually think we'll see a transfer before the start of next season, especially if we have a grad transfer now that we missed on Mitchell.

I guess it depends on what you define as good, great, elite, etc.
I think Rex is a great player. I don't think he is all american or elite status by any means. But great players can help you win ball games and I think Rex does that. I think the frustration with Rex is, he seems to be the first multi starting shooting guard in the history of the Mike Brey era to not to turn into a great scorer. It's something we have all come to expect and it hasn't with Rex for whatever reason.

But make no mistake, he is an elite defender in my estimation and has been for a while. He hustles, he cares for his teammates, he rebounds, he does all the little stuff. And against Purdue he seemed to have finally hit his stride offensively. He was a major reason we won that game. We have know way of knowing if he would have been consistent offensively, but I would have loved to find out.

 

[RDU Irish]

I guess it depends on what you define as good, great, elite, etc.
I think Rex is a great player. I don't think he is all american or elite status by any means. But great players can help you win ball games and I think Rex does that. I think the frustration with Rex is, he seems to be the first multi starting shooting guard in the history of the Mike Brey era to not to turn into a great scorer. It's something we have all come to expect and it hasn't with Rex for whatever reason.

But make no mistake, he is an elite defender in my estimation and has been for a while. He hustles, he cares for his teammates, he rebounds, he does all the little stuff. And against Purdue he seemed to have finally hit his stride offensively. He was a major reason we won that game. We have know way of knowing if he would have been consistent offensively, but I would have loved to find out.

Would that qualify as "any area of his play"? Or is "elite" less than "great"? B/c it sounds to me like you disagree with Woneone's claim that Rex is not "great" at anything - which I find laughably false.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Rex is the reason we've won a ton of games during his time at ND, including the victory over Purdue this year. Look at our record after he went down, it's not a coincidence that it's pretty awful. We needed Rex on this floor to be decent, and we will certainly need him on the floor next year to make a run.

I'm not sure why the freshman get a pass because they aren't properly conditioned or have been in a college S&C. They've all played basketball there entire life including the AAU level playing multiple games on the same day. The freshman at Duke, Kentucky, etc. don't seem to have that problem. Outside of Hubb they should have been better. That's not to say they won't be next year, I think they will, but there play was disappointing and inconsistent this year especially on the offensive side of the ball.

The old, "comparing 4 stars to 5 stars" again, nice!

Were they playing kids 3 years older than them in AAU? Where all those AAU opposing players, D1, ACC bound? I was under the impression that AAU was usually against players, you know, your own age.

This is a really, really bad take.

Our frosh guys were highly rated based on their college potential. Not their college readiness. All four of those guys (maybe even Doherty one day) will have great futures.

I'm not "giving them a pass", I'm just stating what was clearly wrong. They were asked (forced) to do too much, when they were not physically or mentally prepared from playing high schoolers, to D1 ACC ball.... This is perfectly normal, and expected. Unless you have some major, major 5 star talent. No team in America will start 3 freshmen.

Again, not a pass, just stating facts.

 

[BabyIrish]

Would that qualify as "any area of his play"? Or is "elite" less than "great"? B/c it sounds to me like you disagree with Woneone's claim that Rex is not "great" at anything - which I find laughably false.

Yes I would. I think Rex is a great player with elite defense, great intangibles, good to great rebounding and sporadic offensive play.

 

[BabyIrish]

The old, "comparing 4 stars to 5 stars" again, nice!

Were they playing kids 3 years older than them in AAU? Where all those AAU opposing players, D1, ACC bound? I was under the impression that AAU was usually against players, you know, your own age.

This is a really, really bad take.

Our frosh guys were highly rated based on their college potential. Not their college readiness. All four of those guys (maybe even Doherty one day) will have great futures.

I'm not "giving them a pass", I'm just stating what was clearly wrong. They were asked (forced) to do too much, when they were not physically or mentally prepared from playing high schoolers, to D1 ACC ball.... This is perfectly normal, and expected. Unless you have some major, major 5 star talent. No team in America will start 3 freshmen.

Again, not a pass, just stating facts.

Not every team they play are filled with players 3 or 4 years older than them, that’s not accurate. So why are other freshman around the country able to play long amounts of minutes and it not effect them physically? Again, I don’t think strength and conditioning was the problem here. I think the mental aspect of the game was more the problem, learning the system on offense and defense, playing with confidence, and playing consistently at a high level.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Not every team they play are filled with players 3 or 4 years older than them, that’s not accurate. So why are other freshman around the country able to play long amounts of minutes and it not effect them physically? Again, I don’t think strength and conditioning was the problem here. I think the mental aspect of the game was more the problem, learning the system on offense and defense, playing with confidence, and playing consistently at a high level.

When did I say every player was three years older? I was stating that your AAU example is awful, because they would literally NEVER play against, any, players three years older.

And, Yes, because having 6/7 guys is great for conditioning. Prentiss not playing since his junior year is not a problem. DJ only playing half a season, with zero off-season conditioning is not a problem. Nate being 6'10" and only 200 pounds is not a strength issue.

Also, I have mentioned "S&C / mental" as both being the issues, so I'm not in disagreement with that aspect. But you can not just "look past" the S&C.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Part of the "lack of conditioning" is probably just mental fatigue. When you are getting beat on a consistent basis, it's tough to give everything you got on the court.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Part of the "lack of conditioning" is probably just mental fatigue. When you are getting beat on a consistent basis, it's tough to give everything you got on the court.

Yep, which goes back to my "Tired, weak, and demoralized." comment.

tired = too many minutes (forced)
weak = not enough s&c yet
demoralized = mentally defeated, sluggish, forfeited attitude

 

[BabyIrish]

When did I say every player was three years older? I was stating that your AAU example is awful, because they would literally NEVER play against, any, players three years older.

And, Yes, because having 6/7 guys is great for conditioning. Prentiss not playing since his junior year is not a problem. DJ only playing half a season, with zero off-season conditioning is not a problem. Nate being 6'10" and only 200 pounds is not a strength issue.

Also, I have mentioned "S&C / mental" as both being the issues, so I'm not in disagreement with that aspect. But you can not just "look past" the S&C.

The AAU example isn’t awful because you play so much basketball in a short amount of time. They’re used to playing for long stretches of time. They’ve done it all through high school and plenty of freshman don’t have trouble transitioning.

I already praised Prentiss in a previous post. I thought his play was about what you could expect from this year considering the circumstances. My issues are more with Laz and Goodwin. I thought they could have played more consistently and I don’t think strength and conditioning was the issue especially since the BC game they were only playing 15-20 minutes off the bench. They only started playing heavy minutes after Nick and DJ went down. They started to play consistently at the end of the season and I look forward to their development for next year.

 

[Woneone]

Would that qualify as "any area of his play"? Or is "elite" less than "great"? B/c it sounds to me like you disagree with Woneone's claim that Rex is not "great" at anything - which I find laughably false.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why he's elite defensively. As I've said time and time again, I'm open to debate and discussion on these things, and I'm open to someone showing me why I'm wrong.

I can come up with game after game, and since I've been bored at work, a multitude of examples of games where Rex played very good defense. As I said, he's a very good positional defensive player. But I can also show plays where "great" defensive players, in my mind, actually make defensive plays. Just being in position doesn't make you great. Taylor Person's probably agrees with me.

But great? Being the best defensive player on an average defensive team doesn't make you great.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

The AAU example isn’t awful because you play so much basketball in a short amount of time. They’re used to playing for long stretches of time. They’ve done it all through high school and plenty of freshman don’t have trouble transitioning.

I already praised Prentiss in a previous post. I thought his play was about what you could expect from this year considering the circumstances. My issues are more with Laz and Goodwin. I thought they could have played more consistently and I don’t think strength and conditioning was the issue especially since the BC game they were only playing 15-20 minutes off the bench. They only started playing heavy minutes after Nick and DJ went down. They started to play consistently at the end of the season and I look forward to their development for next year.

You're right, strength isn't an issue for a guy like Nate... Lol

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Crazy Balki]

Rex is the reason we've won a ton of games during his time at ND, including the victory over Purdue this year. Look at our record after he went down, it's not a coincidence that it's pretty awful. We needed Rex on this floor to be decent, and we will certainly need him on the floor next year to make a run.

I'm not sure why the freshman get a pass because they aren't properly conditioned or have been in a college S&C. They've all played basketball there entire life including the AAU level playing multiple games on the same day. The freshman at Duke, Kentucky, etc. don't seem to have that problem. Outside of Hubb they should have been better. That's not to say they won't be next year, I think they will, but there play was disappointing and inconsistent this year especially on the offensive side of the ball.

Just because guys have played hoops their whole life doesn't mean they'll hit the ground running, because ACC basketball is a MASSIVE jump in competition.

Also, for guys like Hubb and Harvey, they have not been properly conditioned because they spent most of the offseason rehabbing their injuries. Also Laszewski was going to need to either play more outside the paint. He needs to put on a ton of weight, which was the case even in AAU. He just didn't get pushed around by inferior competition in AAU like he is now.

As for the freshman at Duke and Kentucky, those guys are McDonald's All American level players who are all pretty much locked into NBA roster spots. ND's freshmen were highly rated, but not that highly rated. They're also expected to be 4-year players unlike most of UK and Duke's guys who are 1 or 2 year guys and done. Those guys are generally ready for the college game from the jump. Hell, some of them are ready for the NBA but are forced to play college ball.

 

[anarin]

I thought it was interesting to see that Prentiss Hubb was 9th in freshman minutes in the country and 6th overall in the ACC. TJ Gibbs just missed the top 50 overall in minutes played, but was 2nd in the ACC.

For Hubb thats impressive given the time off from the game.

 

[Woneone]

As for the freshman at Duke and Kentucky, those guys are McDonald's All American level players who are all pretty much locked into NBA roster spots. ND's freshmen were highly rated, but not that highly rated. They're also expected to be 4-year players unlike most of UK and Duke's guys who are 1 or 2 year guys and done. Those guys are generally ready for the college game from the jump. Hell, some of them are ready for the NBA but are forced to play college ball.

We always use Duke and Kentucky in these comparisons. What about a team like West Virginia? Very similar situation to what we were in. Players injured or kicked off the team (I think they lost probably their 3 best players during the season due to suspension). Their starting 5 all played 30+ minutes last night against TT.

Do you think they'd trade Jordan McCabe or Derek Culver or Emmitt Matthews Jr for any of our guys? I'm pretty sure both McCabe and Matthews were ranked lower than any of our recruits.

Yet somehow, they were physically ready. They play 25+ minutes a game (after suspensions). They will more than likely be there for 4 years. And the WVU coaches have them ready to play late in the season (the Culver kid is turning into a force, and both McCabe and Matthews have performed better than any of our freshman down the stretch, with Matthews at least being debatable).

 

[irishrb]

My thougths on the season...

Mooney-Major Props....I never expected him to be that good. Great improvement and looking forward to see how much he progresses next year.

Hubbs-The kid has skills and will be a player...expect to see significant improvement next year..work on that shot

Gibbs-Disappointed....okay....not great...really needs to get in the zone next year...I expect some growth next year...

Harvey-Majorly disappointed....Let's hope a year of off-season training works to his favor because he can do better...

Durham....I don't think Brey played him enough. I know his footwork needs work, but he can do things no other player on ND can do. He needs to hit the weights, and should be a major player

Djogo...not a fan

Goodwin...in over his head....should improve and provide better minutes off the bench

Nate...Showed what he is capable of on the latter end of the season. Gain some confidence, and don't be afraid to pump and drive

Rex...Can't underestimate his leadership...so unfortunate when he went down because he was coming into his own....distributing well, and defending well....he was obviously missed

Brey...He has shown he can develop players....especially the big boys....Let's give him a chance to do that....
He has also shown that he likes to "let his players play." This is where I believe he had the most trouble. This young team just couldn't go out and play...I think they needed more direction...needed to be told more of what to do....

 

[RDU Irish]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why he's elite defensively. As I've said time and time again, I'm open to debate and discussion on these things, and I'm open to someone showing me why I'm wrong.

I can come up with game after game, and since I've been bored at work, a multitude of examples of games where Rex played very good defense. As I said, he's a very good positional defensive player. But I can also show plays where "great" defensive players, in my mind, actually make defensive plays. Just being in position doesn't make you great. Taylor Person's probably agrees with me.

But great? Being the best defensive player on an average defensive team doesn't make you great.

I know for 3+ years Rex would get stuck on the hot hand and shut it down - in the best college basketball conference in the country. I am not a basketball statistician so maybe someone else can track down the data. How many times has this played out - guy lights us up for 15 points in the first half, Rex reassigned and sticks to him like glue - doesn't score much rest of the game, hardly touches the ball.

AND your original claim was ANY part of his game being great/elite. You seem to be quickly hedging that statement for some reason.....