2018-2019 Notre Dame Men's Basketball

[BabyIrish]

We always use Duke and Kentucky in these comparisons. What about a team like West Virginia? Very similar situation to what we were in. Players injured or kicked off the team (I think they lost probably their 3 best players during the season due to suspension). Their starting 5 all played 30+ minutes last night against TT.

Do you think they'd trade Jordan McCabe or Derek Culver or Emmitt Matthews Jr for any of our guys? I'm pretty sure both McCabe and Matthews were ranked lower than any of our recruits.

Yet somehow, they were physically ready. They play 25+ minutes a game (after suspensions). They will more than likely be there for 4 years. And the WVU coaches have them ready to play late in the season (the Culver kid is turning into a force, and both McCabe and Matthews have performed better than any of our freshman down the stretch, with Matthews at least being debatable).

Even though I disagree with you about Rex, this is spot on. Certainly strength and conditioning in the off season is going to help the freshman, don't get me wrong. Certainly strenghth could help Nate in defensive rebounding but he's not a guy they ever had in the post and he won't be until Mooney and Juwan leave. The freshman- Nate and Dane- could have played better regardless of strength and conditioning, especially since they had extra practice and game time with the foreign tour.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

Greattttt Harvey entering the transfer portal. Not opposed to coming back but still entering

 

[irishrb]

Greattttt Harvey entering the transfer portal. Not opposed to coming back but still entering

What the....Come on Brey...what's going on with all these transfers lately...

 

[Woneone]

When a player comes up in discussion, the talk turns to how "good" they are/could be. If that's the case, you can't play them all. I actually think we'll see a transfer before the start of next season, especially if we have a grad transfer now that we missed on Mitchell.

As soon as the news broke that Brey was visiting Justin Pierce, coupled with Rex coming back, something like this was going to happen. I thought about suggesting Harvey would be the one, but as contentious as the conversations had gotten, I didn't (would have looked like a damn prophet).

What did anyone expect? We literally have 5 guys playing slight variations of the same position coming back, and we go out and talk to a 6'7'' grad transfer that fits the same mold. Of all the guys in the mix, Harvey seemed like the most likely due to class and years remaining after transfer.

Maybe Brey thought he could keep everyone happy, I don't know. But, in my opinion, it was get Rex to come back or risk a transfer (and I personally think the obvious risk was Harvey). Does Rex's leadership trump DJ's potential? I believe Brey thinks next years team needs a floor leader more than it does more potential ability at the 3.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

As soon as the news broke that Brey was visiting Justin Pierce, coupled with Rex coming back, something like this was going to happen. I thought about suggesting Harvey would be the one, but as contentious as the conversations had gotten, I didn't (would have looked like a damn prophet).

What did anyone expect? We literally have 5 guys playing slight variations of the same position coming back, and we go out and talk to a 6'7'' grad transfer that fits the same mold. Of all the guys in the mix, Harvey seemed like the most likely due to class and years remaining after transfer.

Maybe Brey thought he could keep everyone happy, I don't know. But, in my opinion, it was get Rex to come back or risk a transfer (and I personally think the obvious risk was Harvey). Does Rex's leadership trump DJ's potential? I believe Brey thinks next years team needs a floor leader more than it does more potential ability at the 3.

Not only that but Harvey has been injury prone his whole career even in high school I think he got hurt his senior year. I mean look I would love to have Harvey but what has he done? He’s been very frustrating for being a top 50 recruit and hasn’t done anything yet

 

[ab2cmiller]

Hope this doesn't hurt our pursuit of Hunter Dickinson.

 

[Woneone]

Not only that but Harvey has been injury prone his whole career even in high school I think he got hurt his senior year. I mean look I would love to have Harvey but what has he done? He’s been very frustrating for being a top 50 recruit and hasn’t done anything yet

It's another Matt Ryan situation.

Yes, you should get a bunch of minutes next year, but they aren't guaranteed. The question is are you better than the other guys at the position? In DJ's case, are you so much better than Goodwin, Carmody, Djogo, Rex, and a potential transfer that your minutes won't get cut?

Here is DJ's biggest problem with our roster next year, he's just a small forward. He doesn't have near the position flexibility as others do. Or, more accurately, if someone has to play out of position, other guys have more skills that cross over than he does.

He obviously can't play the point (all of the guys listed above sans Carmody are better options at this point).

He's not good enough defensively to play the 2 - Rex and Goodwin have shown to be better defenders. Hell, even Djogo.

Can he play small ball 4? Sure (he did small bit before he got hurt is freshman year). But is he better at that position that Rex or Djogo? I don't think so, and I don't think it's close. And, unlike previously years, we can play Laz and Mooney here as well.

But is he the best small forward? I'd honestly say yes. But, like Matt Ryan before him, it doesn't look like he's willing, at this point, to take that bet.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

It's another Matt Ryan situation.

Yes, you should get a bunch of minutes next year, but they aren't guaranteed. The question is are you better than the other guys at the position? In DJ's case, are you so much better than Goodwin, Carmody, Djogo, Rex, and a potential transfer that your minutes won't get cut?

Here is DJ's biggest problem with our roster next year, he's just a small forward. He doesn't have near the position flexibility as others do. Or, more accurately, if someone has to play out of position, other guys have more skills that cross over than he does.

He obviously can't play the point (all of the guys listed above sans Carmody are better options at this point).

He's not good enough defensively to play the 2 - Rex and Goodwin have shown to be better defenders. Hell, even Djogo.

Can he play small ball 4? Sure (he did small bit before he got hurt is freshman year). But is he better at that position that Rex or Djogo? I don't think so, and I don't think it's close. And, unlike previously years, we can play Laz and Mooney here as well.

But is he the best small forward? I'd honestly say yes. But, like Matt Ryan before him, it doesn't look like he's willing, at this point, to take that bet.

Plus he doesn’t shoot as well as Goodwin and Carmody. Harvey is more of a slasher and mid range shooter but he hasn’t shown any signs of that ability since being at ND

 

[irishandy]

The first thing that came to me when I heard about Harvey possibly transferring was Cameron Biedscheid. Both highly recruited and they can't even make it at Notre Dame.

Is this on them or does this reflect the program at ND? Is Harvey seeing the writing on the wall for next year?

I get that Harvey is just a "small forward." DJ Harvey 6'6", Bonzie Colson 6'6". If anyone could get that "road dog" mentality that Colson had I think it would be Harvey.

I say if Harvey transfers, do it sooner than later and get it over with. Biedscheid transferred from ND and you didn't hear another thing about him, Matt Ryan transferred to Vanderbilt and he's transferring again. I hope DJ doesn't become an afterthought, kid is too talented, and his time is coming.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Damn.... Harvey is probably the most "gifted"/put together players we have too.... Just needs to get conditioned/confident.

He's a prime candidate for Brey late bloomer... I see a lot of Carlton Scott in him... Hopefully brey can keep him like he got Scott to stay.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Crazy Balki]

The first thing that came to me when I heard about Harvey possibly transferring was Cameron Biedscheid. Both highly recruited and they can't even make it at Notre Dame.

Is this on them or does this reflect the program at ND? Is Harvey seeing the writing on the wall for next year?

I get that Harvey is just a "small forward." DJ Harvey 6'6", Bonzie Colson 6'6". If anyone could get that "road dog" mentality that Colson had I think it would be Harvey.

I say if Harvey transfers, do it sooner than later and get it over with. Biedscheid transferred from ND and you didn't hear another thing about him, Matt Ryan transferred to Vanderbilt and he's transferring again. I hope DJ doesn't become an afterthought, kid is too talented, and his time is coming.

Well, good news is that ND was better for it after Biedscheid left.

Harvey's size isn't really the issue. It's that his skillset is currently limited. He doesn't possess the outside game or is a stellar passer. Both skills practically pre-requisites for a functioning Brey system.

Not many had it this year, but I can see the freshmen gaining those traits moreso than Harvey, because I think those are more of what kind of players they are. Harvey is a stellar athlete and can slash really well. He needs to find an outside game and work on his passing.

Also think that Harvey entering the portal means that the writing was on the wall for him, and I think this means that ND has all but locked up a transfer of their own to come in to that spot (Pierce from W&M would be my guess).

 

[Old Man Mike]

I am nearly ignorant of the personnel issues with ND Men's BBall, so I'll ask you guys to talk about the following:

A long time ago, when I was following NCAAM BBall recruiting, the LARGE majority of Worldbeater recruits were being developed in just a few big cities (mainly East Coast, Detroit, Chicago, and a few others --- coaches used to go to the NY playgrounds looking for point guards and helicopter dunkers.) Almost all of that particular talent was from "the Ghettoes."

Then came the era when the Recruiting "High School" programs begin to dominate and Supermen/kids from those same areas were being pulled out of poverty (usually) to play in what amounted to feeder BBall programs --- ultimately even attracting players from distant countries. Jerry West might show up in East Bank West Virginia long ago, and Larry Bird might show up in French Lick, but those guys seemed utterly rare and getting rarer.

So, I imagine today the 5* quality "high school" players as being a largish numbers of "marbles" in a yearly recruiting barrel. I wonder how many of those could even dream of passing ND admissions? ( and, no, I don't think that this problem is anything similar between Brey and Muffet McGraw for tons of "sociology" reasons.)

If I poured out all the marbles from that barrel who couldn't vaguely be considered, would anyone be left? Of those left, how many of them might have taken and passed a second language requirement, legitimately? Are we down to zero people? Ten? Twenty?

Those "twenty" academic+BBall all-stars wouldn't be set-aside by other teams for "Notre Dame-Use", and Brey would be in an , it seems to me, almost hopeless battle to sign them.

I said earlier that I'm not following this stuff, and several of you guys are --- so none of the above may make any sense (I'll readily accept that.) But if any part of it makes sense, how can we get on Brey too much? He can go after second tier BBallers as hard as he can and hope through coaching and surprise to get a break, or he can decide to roll the dice and work his butt off trying for the rare superkids and maybe completely strike out, and be in trouble for a given recruiting year. What, given our school's policies, should his strategy be? (Football has similar problems but, for me, at a much less severe level.)

 

[RDU Irish]

I am nearly ignorant of the personnel issues with ND Men's BBall, so I'll ask you guys to talk about the following:

A long time ago, when I was following NCAAM BBall recruiting, the LARGE majority of Worldbeater recruits were being developed in just a few big cities (mainly East Coast, Detroit, Chicago, and a few others --- coaches used to go to the NY playgrounds looking for point guards and helicopter dunkers.) Almost all of that particular talent was from "the Ghettoes."

Then came the era when the Recruiting "High School" programs begin to dominate and Supermen/kids from those same areas were being pulled out of poverty (usually) to play in what amounted to feeder BBall programs --- ultimately even attracting players from distant countries. Jerry West might show up in East Bank West Virginia long ago, and Larry Bird might show up in French Lick, but those guys seemed utterly rare and getting rarer.

So, I imagine today the 5* quality "high school" players as being a largish numbers of "marbles" in a yearly recruiting barrel. I wonder how many of those could even dream of passing ND admissions? ( and, no, I don't think that this problem is anything similar between Brey and Muffet McGraw for tons of "sociology" reasons.)

If I poured out all the marbles from that barrel who couldn't vaguely be considered, would anyone be left? Of those left, how many of them might have taken and passed a second language requirement, legitimately? Are we down to zero people? Ten? Twenty?

Those "twenty" academic+BBall all-stars wouldn't be set-aside by other teams for "Notre Dame-Use", and Brey would be in an , it seems to me, almost hopeless battle to sign them.

I said earlier that I'm not following this stuff, and several of you guys are --- so none of the above may make any sense (I'll readily accept that.) But if any part of it makes sense, how can we get on Brey too much? He can go after second tier BBallers as hard as he can and hope through coaching and surprise to get a break, or he can decide to roll the dice and work his butt off trying for the rare superkids and maybe completely strike out, and be in trouble for a given recruiting year. What, given our school's policies, should his strategy be? (Football has similar problems but, for me, at a much less severe level.)

Well the bolded part is part of the issue on the recruiting front regardless of being 5* McDs all-american or not. Starting to wonder if Brey isn't looking to just play in the portal and never have a freshman again.

 

[RDU Irish]

What the....Come on Brey...what's going on with all these transfers lately...

Increasingly big part of college basketball. Something like 2 transfers per team on average the last few years way up from just five years before. You almost need to plan on losing a guy or two every year and would be silly not to shop the portal too. Pretty hard for the lower tier D1 guys to hold on to their better young players who can enter the portal and be in demand to plug and play in to a contender or at least showcase in a top tier league.

As far as Harvey - this move kind of reinforces the intangible vibes I get off of him.

 

[Irish#1]

Well the bolded part is part of the issue on the recruiting front regardless of being 5* McDs all-american or not. Starting to wonder if Brey isn't looking to just play in the portal and never have a freshman again.

That would be foolish and dangerous. There's a much smaller pool of these kids and you're still recruiting against most everyone else for these kids.

 

[RDU Irish]

That would be foolish and dangerous. There's a much smaller pool of these kids and you're still recruiting against most everyone else for these kids.

100% agree that failing to recruit any freshmen to campus is foolish and dangerous.

 

[NDPhilly]

Harvey looked the part was really surprised by how unathletic he looked this past year. Wonder how much the injury took out of him.

 

[Irish#1]

100% agree that failing to recruit any freshmen to campus is foolish and dangerous.

And only recruiting through the portal is just as bad.

 

[Woneone]

Both Hauser brothers are transferring from Marquette. We recruited the younger brother, not sure about the older. We have enough roster spots to take both, and still take a grad transfer.

It’s a pipe dream, but would be about as good as we could do.

 

[RDU Irish]

https://www.ndinsider.com/basketball/mens/noie-tracking-hoops-transfers-now-the-game-within-college-game/article_c7eda845-c348-5308-98a8-fa435836340a.html

Noie article on transfer portal - Harvey one of some 750+ in the portal. Seems pretty obvious Brey wants to pick up a couple from there. I follow @NDHoopsRecruits on the Twit machine but beyond that don't get much info.

Hausers - Joey and Sam, from Marquette, both 6'8"ish shooting +40% from deep. Both sit a year and get one and three years from there.

Justin Pierce - William and Mary grad transfer with one year remaining. 6'7" F originally from Chicago, graduating with BBA Finance degree so maybe kick starting a Mendoza MBA is enticing?

Jared Bynum - St. Joseph - 5'10" guard, sit one play three

RJ Cole - Howard - MEAC POY - 6'1" G would sit one and play two but currently submitted name to NBA Draft so hard to see him staying on any campus three years.

 

[shortynd01]

Cole Anthony to UNC....ugh

 

[stpeteirish]

Brey is everyone's favorite coach but nobody in the top 50 seems to want to play for him.

 

[anarin]

Why would they? They can one and done at the basketball factories and not worry about academics. These are kids that are looking at college as a stepping stone.

Anyone who actually thought ND had an actual shot with this kid is the greatest optimist alive lol

 

[BabyIrish]

Why would they? They can one and done at the basketball factories and not worry about academics. These are kids that are looking at college as a stepping stone.

Anyone who actually thought ND had an actual shot with this kid is the greatest optimist alive lol

It begs the question, is it even worth recruiting anyone considered a one and done. It just doesn't seem like a good fit considering what ND is about. I'd say no personally and instead get those top 100 guys who you can stick around and develop.

 

[EvilleIrish]

It begs the question, is it even worth recruiting anyone considered a one and done. It just doesn't seem like a good fit considering what ND is about. I'd say no personally and instead get those top 100 guys who you can stick around and develop.

The Purdue model.

 

[NDMIA]

It begs the question, is it even worth recruiting anyone considered a one and done. It just doesn't seem like a good fit considering what ND is about. I'd say no personally and instead get those top 100 guys who you can stick around and develop.

ND needs to fill up their scholarship pool better. They need the 12th and 13th scholarship dudes to be freshmen who are redshirting or a sit out transfer. Need to get an Austin Torres back in the program and they had that with Chris Doherty but they lost that redshirt developmental year when they pulled him off his redshirt. Point is that ND is too good at academics and serious for it to be a one-and-done factory. Duke might be the best academic factory of that basketball factory category but they’ve got 40 years of tradition, 4 national titles and a legendary head coach before they started really getting into the one-and-done method. I think Brey is best off going for those top end recruits but adding 1-2 guys per class that are developmental that have some good tools to work with. I think Virginia is a program to follow in that regard. They had 6 scholarship guys on their roster who redshirted during their time at UVA. I’m not saying redshirt everyone but I think it is a great idea to follow in the footsteps of a UVA rather than a Kentucky or Duke which will never happen frankly. Ideally ND needs 3 more recruits and hopefully 1-2 of those are redshirting next season in hopes of helping the 2020-2021 roster. Experience matters and you’ll see that next year when they’ll start TJ Gibbs, John Mooney and Rex Pfleuger who are all seniors and maybe Justin Pierce if they got him which would mean starting 4 seniors which is what many programs dream of.

 

[RDU Irish]

ND needs to fill up their scholarship pool better. They need the 12th and 13th scholarship dudes to be freshmen who are redshirting or a sit out transfer. Need to get an Austin Torres back in the program and they had that with Chris Doherty but they lost that redshirt developmental year when they pulled him off his redshirt. Point is that ND is too good at academics and serious for it to be a one-and-done factory. Duke might be the best academic factory of that basketball factory category but they’ve got 40 years of tradition, 4 national titles and a legendary head coach before they started really getting into the one-and-done method. I think Brey is best off going for those top end recruits but adding 1-2 guys per class that are developmental that have some good tools to work with. I think Virginia is a program to follow in that regard. They had 6 scholarship guys on their roster who redshirted during their time at UVA. I’m not saying redshirt everyone but I think it is a great idea to follow in the footsteps of a UVA rather than a Kentucky or Duke which will never happen frankly. Ideally ND needs 3 more recruits and hopefully 1-2 of those are redshirting next season in hopes of helping the 2020-2021 roster. Experience matters and you’ll see that next year when they’ll start TJ Gibbs, John Mooney and Rex Pfleuger who are all seniors and maybe Justin Pierce if they got him which would mean starting 4 seniors which is what many programs dream of.

It appears Brey is shopping the portal to fill the roster which means one or two will be required to sit a year and we need a Grad transfer who can play right away with some brass balls. I have yet to see anything on any realistic true frosh options and seems we have minimal offers out anyway. If anyone has resources saying otherwise I am all ears.

 

[IrishLax]

Brey is everyone's favorite coach but nobody in the top 50 seems to want to play for him.

There are tons of extremely successful programs that don't have a bunch of "top 50" kids. Signing top 50 kids is not what got Brey coach of the year awards or to Elite 8s. Arguably, the issue is chasing those players in the first place instead of sticking with what worked for him. To take it further to the extreme, there is absolutely no way to make one-and-done players work at ND.

 

[RDU Irish]

There are tons of extremely successful programs that don't have a bunch of "top 50" kids. Signing top 50 kids is not what got Brey coach of the year awards or to Elite 8s. Arguably, the issue is chasing those players in the first place instead of sticking with what worked for him. To take it further to the extreme, there is absolutely no way to make one-and-done players work at ND.

Which makes me wonder WTF Brey is thinking this recruiting cycle. He had a lot of good fit targets out there and plenty of room to lock up a few while leaving room for that pie-in-the-sky guy. When left at the altar by the superstar (or blindsided by Harvey)- hit the portal with the extra spot or two to fill. Having two empty classes out of three is just unbelievable.

 

[NDMIA]

Which makes me wonder WTF Brey is thinking this recruiting cycle. He had a lot of good fit targets out there and plenty of room to lock up a few while leaving room for that pie-in-the-sky guy. When left at the altar by the superstar (or blindsided by Harvey)- hit the portal with the extra spot or two to fill. Having two empty classes out of three is just unbelievable.

The crazy thing is Brey offered 12 guys this cycle. 9 of them were in the top 55 in composite ratings on 247! That is some crazy crazy competitive recruitments that a program like ND isn't going to win, especially coming off an NIT and no tourney in the last two years. The 3 that weren't offered included Joe Girard who was Syracuse's recruit to lose, Tre Mitchell who wasn't a fit at ND anyway it turns out, and Chris Ledlum who was a perfect fit for ND! Ledlum was offered by ND in late July and was "offered" by Harvard in March (Ivy's can't offer, but you get the idea). Basketball recruiting is different from football recruiting where the recruiting is usually quicker and a 4 month head start from the top school in America was too much to overcome. ND didn't target a lot of guys in their shopping aisle which is disappointing. Kadin Shedrick, who signed with UVA, should've at least been offered. Harlond Beverly just signed with Miami and that kid was a big time late bloomer and under-recruited until the spring and should've been offered. Basketball recruiting might seem tough for ND because of their academic restrictions and their location, but in reality there are quite a few high academic kids who'd love to come to ND, but they've been doing a poor job identifying and recruiting the second tier 4 star recruits lately for whatever reason.