2018-2019 Notre Dame Men's Basketball

[ab2cmiller]

Also, I know I shouldn't expect too much from Djogo, but shouldn't someone in college have at least some minimal use of his off hand.

 

[irishrb]

You are right - on everything, always. Expecting Harvey to be a key player this year and help facilitate Brey's system is completely unreasonable. How could we ever expect that Harvey would be asked to do a lot this year and step up. Its not like he is highly rated and was the only guy taken in his class or had damn near guaranteed playing time in front of him from day one.

This season getting turned around starts and ends with Gibbs and Harvey. Expecting the frosh to make it happen is not only unreasonable but less than ideal for the future of the team.

Thank you. This is how I feel...hence my response for the disappointment in Harvey and Gibbs. I know Harvey is coming off surgery, and I know basketball is very rhytmic, but it's time for these two to step up and be more consistent players on this team. It's almost February...

 

[RDU Irish]

I still have hope for Harvey. I've given up hope of much more growth from Gibbs. He is what he is. He's really at his best as a spot up shooter when the offense has good ball movement. He's a decent ball handler, but can't drive and finish. He's been put in a spot where he feels pressure to do too much and the results are not usually good.

I have hope for both of them. Gibbs is just more frustrating b/c he is an upperclassman on a team desperate for upperclassman leadership. Looking at his shooting from frosh to soph he was on a sweet trajectory to be our #1 scoring option and showed every sign of having the cajones to shine under the spotlight. I have not given up on him by far - I see a lot of frustration and tight play. I mean, his career high is 19, that should be closer to his average on this team. Expected more shot seeking assassin from him this year. He can do it, his head is just nowhere close right now (thus the huge shooting regression and 1-4 FT type outings for a damn good shooter).

Thank goodness Mooney took such an unexpected step up or who knows what we would do.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Always Shooting.<br>Never Hurt.<br><br>Our guy <a href="https://twitter.com/robbycarmody24?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@robbycarmody24</a> still hitting half-courters even after shoulder surgery.<br><br>GAMEDAY<br>&#55356;&#57280;ND | Duke<br>&#55357;&#56662;7pm<br>&#55357;&#56570;ESPN <a href="https://t.co/Ws6tJOY0lN">pic.twitter.com/Ws6tJOY0lN</a></p>— Notre Dame MBB (@NDmbb) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDmbb/status/1090008533763059713?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 28, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well, it appears that Robby's recovery is going well?

(side note: is this a wise idea??)

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

I said it against Virginia and I'll say it again now: this is not a team playing but 5 individuals. This is so unlike the recent good Brey teams. I have seen more turnovers because of lazy passes than I have seen actual good extra passes to swing the ball to the open man. Something I really loved about Farrell was that even when he was turning the ball over it was mostly because he was attempting difficult passes to get his teammates the ball in a good position to score. Now most of the turnovers are either lazy passes being tipped/intercepted or players getting out of control on a dribble trying to get their shot. I could take the losses if we were at least playing our game but just getting beat, but we aren't even playing our game.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I said it against Virginia and I'll say it again now: this is not a team playing but 5 individuals. This is so unlike the recent good Brey teams. I have seen more turnovers because of lazy passes than I have seen actual good extra passes to swing the ball to the open man. Something I really loved about Farrell was that even when he was turning the ball over it was mostly because he was attempting difficult passes to get his teammates the ball in a good position to score. Now most of the turnovers are either lazy passes being tipped/intercepted or players getting out of control on a dribble trying to get their shot. I could take the losses if we were at least playing our game but just getting beat, but we aren't even playing our game.

What is our game? I mean, really?

Do you understand that this young/depleted team hasn't even had a chance to form an identity?

You foolishly compare them to "recent good Brey teams". Why? How is this team similar? They're much more young, they're dealing with injuries, they had a transfer.

Why compare them to the old team? You need to watch these games knowing that it's "not going to be pretty" and watch how they develop.

Everyone in America knew we were going to get killed this Saturday/Monday turnaround...And that was predicted before the loss of Rex, Elijah, and Robby... I'm curious to see how they look after 1) some good, needed rest and 2) a team that's less NBA than Virginia/Duke.

If you want to watch a "good Brey team" then you need to sit this year out (that goes to all you irrational posters). If you're interested in watching young guys learn how to take some punches and grow from it, then join me in some fun!

 

[Woneone]

I said it against Virginia and I'll say it again now: this is not a team playing but 5 individuals. This is so unlike the recent good Brey teams. I have seen more turnovers because of lazy passes than I have seen actual good extra passes to swing the ball to the open man. Something I really loved about Farrell was that even when he was turning the ball over it was mostly because he was attempting difficult passes to get his teammates the ball in a good position to score. Now most of the turnovers are either lazy passes being tipped/intercepted or players getting out of control on a dribble trying to get their shot. I could take the losses if we were at least playing our game but just getting beat, but we aren't even playing our game.

We just played two of the four teams that would be, if on separate sides of the bracket, in probably 70% of peoples final game at this point in the season.

Edit (Phrasing): There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical. The way these last two games have went are not those reasons.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

What is our game? I mean, really?

Do you understand that this young/depleted team hasn't even had a chance to form an identity?

You foolishly compare them to "recent good Brey teams". Why? How is this team similar? They're much more young, they're dealing with injuries, they had a transfer.

Why compare them to the old team? You need to watch these games knowing that it's "not going to be pretty" and watch how they develop.

Everyone in America knew we were going to get killed this Saturday/Monday turnaround...And that was predicted before the loss of Rex, Elijah, and Robby... I'm curious to see how they look after 1) some good, needed rest and 2) a team that's less NBA than Virginia/Duke.

If you want to watch a "good Brey team" then you need to sit this year out (that goes to all you irrational posters). If you're interested in watching young guys learn how to take some punches and grow from it, then join me in some fun!

First off, seriously, calling me irrational? What about what I said was irrational? I specifically said I could take the losses. I sat front row for every home game of our first year in the ACC and saw us get killed but it was okay because I saw the improvements that needed to be made being made.

My point of contention is that we do not seem to be making improvements but actually seem to be falling further away from what we need to do. Mooney became a good player but is now putting too much on himself offensively and is taking bad shots. Gibbs feels like he has to score every time and is forcing up shots he wouldn't normally take because of it.

So many people have talked about how he has regressed and to me its not even a comparison to how he was before because the way he is playing is so different. Its much easier to play an efficient game and put up good stats when you are getting open shots or even just getting the ball closer to the basket as opposed to how it is now where he takes fadeaway contested shots at the buzzer and get the ball in basically the same position four feet beyond the three point line every time.

As for what our game is, you are right in that I don't know. But what I do know is that the basis for all the different successful variations of his offense that Brey has run has been good passing. Whether it was the 4 around 1 drive and kick game of a few years ago or the pick and roll combos of DJ/Auguste & Farrell/Geben, each was built on a strong passing game that forced movement of the defense to open easy shots.

And you know what, maybe Brey figures it out this year. These guys are young and are basically toddlers compared to Brey's normal lineups. But my concern so far is that it feels like its heading in the wrong direction.

We all knew this was going to be a building year, but what good is a building year if all you build is bad play.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

First off, seriously, calling me irrational? What about what I said was irrational? I specifically said I could take the losses. I sat front row for every home game of our first year in the ACC and saw us get killed but it was okay because I saw the improvements that needed to be made being made.



My point of contention is that we do not seem to be making improvements but actually seem to be falling further away from what we need to do. Mooney became a good player but is now putting too much on himself offensively and is taking bad shots. Gibbs feels like he has to score every time and is forcing up shots he wouldn't normally take because of it.



So many people have talked about how he has regressed and to me its not even a comparison to how he was before because the way he is playing is so different. Its much easier to play an efficient game and put up good stats when you are getting open shots or even just getting the ball closer to the basket as opposed to how it is now where he takes fadeaway contested shots at the buzzer and get the ball in basically the same position four feet beyond the three point line every time.



As for what our game is, you are right in that I don't know. But what I do know is that the basis for all the different successful variations of his offense that Brey has run has been good passing. Whether it was the 4 around 1 drive and kick game of a few years ago or the pick and roll combos of DJ/Auguste & Farrell/Geben, each was built on a strong passing game that forced movement of the defense to open easy shots.



And you know what, maybe Brey figures it out this year. These guys are young and are basically toddlers compared to Brey's normal lineups. But my concern so far is that it feels like its heading in the wrong direction.



We all knew this was going to be a building year, but what good is a building year if all you build is bad play.

What's irrational about comparing this team to "recent good Brey teams"?

Do you really want me to breakdown how silly it is to compare players that were in HS to 3/4 year starters?

(also, I quit reading after your opening line because you clearly don't have a clear/competent for this type of a season)

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[SouthSideChiDomer]

What's irrational about comparing this team to "recent good Brey teams"?

Do you really want me to breakdown how silly it is to compare players that were in HS to 3/4 year starters?

(also, I quit reading after your opening line because you clearly don't have a clear/competent for this type of a season)

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Well you really should read before you respond. Seems pretty irrational not to do that.

My point, which I stated after you stopped reading I guess, is that even the bad and young teams with Brey got better because they improved in the system. They got more used to being in the flow of the offense which revolves around good passing to get players high percentage shots. Even when we didn't know exactly how to run the offense, that overall philosophy was still the same and the players got better at it over time. So far this year they are not only not improving but getting worse. You don't have to be a 3 or 4 year starter to improve. In fact, because they are so young and inexperienced the initial gains should be more obvious but so far they are absent. Just getting old won't solve these problems. Only getting old with good habits will work out. I am not worried about the results, I am worried about the process.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Well you really should read before you respond. Seems pretty irrational not to do that.



My point, which I stated after you stopped reading I guess, is that even the bad and young teams with Brey got better because they improved in the system. They got more used to being in the flow of the offense which revolves around good passing to get players high percentage shots. Even when we didn't know exactly how to run the offense, that overall philosophy was still the same and the players got better at it over time. So far this year they are not only not improving but getting worse. You don't have to be a 3 or 4 year starter to improve. In fact, because they are so young and inexperienced the initial gains should be more obvious but so far they are absent. Just getting old won't solve these problems. Only getting old with good habits will work out. I am not worried about the results, I am worried about the process.

"I'm worried about the process"

Alright. I can't listen to this shit anymore. Brey has NEVER had a team this young/injured/depleted.

Yet, you're worried he's got the program heading in the wrong direction?

What historical data do you have to support this notion?

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[FightingIrishLover7]

Additionally, to anyone drawing (or collecting data for) conclusions based on games against Virginia and Duke.

I feel bad for your lack of basketball iq.

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[Woneone]

What's irrational about comparing this team to "recent good Brey teams"?

Do you really want me to breakdown how silly it is to compare players that were in HS to 3/4 year starters?

(also, I quit reading after your opening line because you clearly don't have a clear/competent for this type of a season)

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Even though I think your petty "irrational fans" takes are a bit tiresome, I'll give you this..

This team, from recent memory, resembles the 13-14 team in a lot of ways.

- That team included Freshman Steve Vasturia, VJ Beachum, and Demetrius Jackson. Sophmore Zach Auguste, and Junior Pat Connaughton.
- That team lost Jerian early in the year, and the comparison I'd draw to this years team is TJ Gibbs completely losing himself and what his role is. No, not Rex getting hurt. He's not that type of impact player, sorry.

Now, where this team is starting to deviate is how that team lost. It lost twice, bad, to Virginia. That's it. It played in competitive game after competitive game. Now, they also had senior leaders in Sherman and Atkins who could keep them in games. This team doesn't have that.

No, I don't think this team is going to go 32-6 next year. Mainly because no matter how hard you wish it, want it, hope it, you can't tell which direction some of these guys are going to go. Continuing this, "Enjoy the ride" stuff is only fun if it doesn't end in running into a wall. And yes, there are plenty of concerns.

- Right now our major presence is essentially a 6'8" stretch 4. God bless John Mooney, but we're going to be relying on an unproven commodity in Durham who hasn't shown he can even play consecutive games, not to mention an entire ACC schedule.
- DJ Harvey may never get his explosiveness back from Micro fracture surgery.
- Each of the freshman (maybe sans Goodwin) have huge holes. NC State guarded our 6'10 stretch 4 with Braxton FREAKING Beaverly. I've already described Hubbs weaknesses, no reason to get people all weepy eyed again. Carmody hasn't played an ACC minute (and from what some people keep telling me, missing a year basically means the next year is just a throw away).
- The guy who was supposed to be our leader is a mess (TJ).
- Every time Djogo throws a pass, I wonder which team is going to catch it (although, truth be told, he played well today all things considered).
- I don't know if I'd say that ANY of our back court players have improved since Ingelsby left. Is that the new normal? Or just bad luck?

If you get a Steve Vasturia or Eric Atkins Freshman to Sophmore jump from 2 of the 6 (Hubb, Goodwin, Carmody, Durham, or Harvey), then we'll be pretty good next year. 3 of the 6, we're really good. I don't know if they will, I hope so, but I'll wait and see. This is all contingent on if we get good TJ or bad TJ.

Until then, this is what we got, and as of right now, after two ass-whoopings in a row, this season can go either way.

 

[BabyIrish]

Additionally, to anyone drawing (or collecting data for) conclusions based on games against Virginia and Duke.

I feel bad for your lack of basketball iq.

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In what ways is southside being irrational or have no basketball i.q? We'd love for you to enlighten us on your own basketball i.q and where you got it from? He's brought up valid points about the team as a whole not showing a lot of improvements over the course of the season. Which is true. The only true players you can say that have showed improvements are Mooney and Goodwin, and Goodwin came back to earth last night. We continue to look lost on offense. Brey himself after the Virginia game that the team has had 68 practices this year. That's a lot of practice time to try and gel and it doesn't seem to be happening. It doesn't mean the players suck and should all transfer out and it doesn't mean Brey sucks and should be fired. The question is why and will we start to see the improvements we're so used to Brey teams making? I'd guess that we do make those improvements but we shall see.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

In what ways is southside being irrational or have no basketball i.q? We'd love for you to enlighten us on your own basketball i.q and where you got it from? He's brought up valid points about the team as a whole not showing a lot of improvements over the course of the season. Which is true. The only true players you can say that have showed improvements are Mooney and Goodwin, and Goodwin came back to earth last night. We continue to look lost on offense. Brey himself after the Virginia game that the team has had 68 practices this year. That's a lot of practice time to try and gel and it doesn't seem to be happening. It doesn't mean the players suck and should all transfer out and it doesn't mean Brey sucks and should be fired. The question is why and will we start to see the improvements we're so used to Brey teams making? I'd guess that we do make those improvements but we shall see.

He openly admitted he was comparing this team to "recent good teams", therefore exposing himself to biased conclusions based on a ridiculous comparison. Anyone, who remotely understands basketball, has the iq to realize what was going to come this year. It shouldn't take Morgan Wootten to realize that these cards are unplayable (at this time).

Also,
1) "back to earth" - one game, against Duke - ok lol
2) With this unit? - No - lost Elijah, Rex, Robby, and Juwan (temporarily)
3) At least you're not as bad as a lot of "ND fans" on social media that are openly proposing for him to be fired
4) Given the events leading into this season, what has occured during this season, there's a very real chance that this won't happen until Oct 2019...

I'd like to remind everyone that this team beat Purdue (#17 now), UNC nose to nose in Chapel Hill, UCLA down to the wire in LA, and damn near every game close (sans #3 and #2) teams.

They just had the most brutal Sat/Mon turnarounds that anyone is going to see all year. They're undermanned, gassed, and inexperienced. Watch how they rebound. Watch each play, and think about each moment will translate into future success.

If you guys continue to over-analyze win/loss ratio, scoring margin (especially against borderline NBA teams), you're in for a brutal, brutal season.

The sad thing is, I saw all of this coming. I tried warning people, even with Rex, Robby, and Elijah still on the team. I predicted 4 acc wins with that roster. I was almost excited when this season's struggles happened because I thought, "Ok, pressure is off Brey..everyone will understand that this season will be about watching young guys taking punches, being knocked down...etc"

Nope, unrealistic/short-sighted "fans" still gonna be an issue apparently.

 

[anarin]

Any realistic fan knows this season was a wash, NIT was the best thing they could hope for. And then you add the injuries? Breaking .500 is now the goal.

Next year they'll be a borderline tourney team, but in 2 years from now they'll make waves (with no injuries and such).

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Any realistic fan knows this season was a wash, NIT was the best thing they could hope for. And then you add the injuries? Breaking .500 is now the goal.

Next year they'll be a borderline tourney team, but in 2 years from now they'll make waves (with no injuries and such).

Thank you for reinforcing me that there are still some level headed fans. Outside of my friends/family, I haven't had a meaningful ND basketball discussion since pre-Bonzie/Matt injuries last season.

 

[Ndaccountant]

In what ways is southside being irrational or have no basketball i.q? We'd love for you to enlighten us on your own basketball i.q and where you got it from? He's brought up valid points about the team as a whole not showing a lot of improvements over the course of the season. Which is true. The only true players you can say that have showed improvements are Mooney and Goodwin, and Goodwin came back to earth last night. We continue to look lost on offense. Brey himself after the Virginia game that the team has had 68 practices this year. That's a lot of practice time to try and gel and it doesn't seem to be happening. It doesn't mean the players suck and should all transfer out and it doesn't mean Brey sucks and should be fired. The question is why and will we start to see the improvements we're so used to Brey teams making? I'd guess that we do make those improvements but we shall see.

Is it?

The best teams ND played OOC were OU, UCLA and Purdont. They went 1-2 and all three games were close. Before the last two games against perhaps 2 of the 3 best teams in the country, ND was neck and neck with NCSU and UNC and lost on the road to GT by 2 where they always struggle. By and large, GT and UCLA are nearly equivalents in my book.

So ND is playing quality teams night in and night out with a deleted roster full of players that, outside of Gibbs, has never logged these types of minutes. At the same time, they are essentially putting up the same performances they did OOC against similar teams, except they have a worse roster now.

I know UVA and Duke games were hard to watch. But to me, the next three games will tell me much more about this teams make up and progress. If they get blown out, I will share your concern.

 

[BabyIrish]

Thank you for reinforcing me that there are still some level headed fans. Outside of my friends/family, I haven't had a meaningful ND basketball discussion since pre-Bonzie/Matt injuries last season.

I think the point southside made was where are improvements being made. Because what he sees are bad habits, with the continual bad passing and turnovers. That seems pretty level headed to me. I'd like to hear where you think the team is improving and what good habits they are actually making.

This season is obviously an anomaly so in no ways do I think Brey is on any sort of hot seat. However I'm a little concerned that the team struggles to get offensive rhythm and guard pick rolls. That's basic basketball stuff that seems hard at this time when they shouldn't after having 69 total practices.

As I stated earlier I do think this team has the chance to be good in 2 years making a run at a top 4 finish in the ACC if Brey works his magic like he usually does.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I think this team can be better than simply a fringe-tourney team next year, but a lot of it comes down to not just guys developing, but a couple guys gaining a ton of confidence on offense. We need guys who are willing to take the shot.

Someone mentioned Gibbs taking a jump similar to Grant, but I just don't see it happening. Grant did a lot more offensively for ND than Gibbs has done. Grant could be a spot-up guy, a slasher and a floor general in varying capacities. Gibbs can't manage the floor. Hubb has shown flashes, but he's still very young and is getting knocked around out there. Physically overwhelmed.

Harvey is going to shine next year, calling it. People need to remember that this guy is 10-11 months removed from major surgery on his knee and he missed practically all of the offseason. That's a lot of time to practice and learn the system that he didn't get. But the guy appears to be getting his athleticism back and he can be a pretty lethal offensive weapon if he learns to play within Brey's system.

I don't think this team will be anything like the '15 squad. That team had so many guys who could were multi-faceted offensively. Grant and Jackson were a lethal floor command duo. They could both man point and could both slash. Hubb and Gibbs flash that kind of slashing ability, but they lack the floor general quality that those two had. I think Hubb can develop into that, not so sure about Gibbs. I really hate seeing Carmody go down, because I think he would've been that running mate with Hubb for the future. Gibbs would have had to up his game considerably or risk losing his starting spot.

Mooney doesn't get nearly enough credit. He's been a force inside for us, and I can only imagine how bad things would be without him. But he desperately needs help on the boards. He is getting ganged up by bigger, more athletic interior forwards. I felt horrible for him watching Barrett and Zion wreak havoc on him. It's hardly fair to expect him to hold things down against the two best players in the country without any help inside. Laz has to get so much better rebounding and add some physicality to his game.

 

[BabyIrish]

Is it?

The best teams ND played OOC were OU, UCLA and Purdont. They went 1-2 and all three games were close. Before the last two games against perhaps 2 of the 3 best teams in the country, ND was neck and neck with NCSU and UNC and lost on the road to GT by 2 where they always struggle. By and large, GT and UCLA are nearly equivalents in my book.

So ND is playing quality teams night in and night out with a deleted roster full of players that, outside of Gibbs, has never logged these types of minutes. At the same time, they are essentially putting up the same performances they did OOC against similar teams, except they have a worse roster now.

I know UVA and Duke games were hard to watch. But to me, the next three games will tell me much more about this teams make up and progress. If they get blown out, I will share your concern.

Fair points

 

[BabyIrish]

I think this team can be better than simply a fringe-tourney team next year, but a lot of it comes down to not just guys developing, but a couple guys gaining a ton of confidence on offense. We need guys who are willing to take the shot.

Someone mentioned Gibbs taking a jump similar to Grant, but I just don't see it happening. Grant did a lot more offensively for ND than Gibbs has done. Grant could be a spot-up guy, a slasher and a floor general in varying capacities. Gibbs can't manage the floor. Hubb has shown flashes, but he's still very young and is getting knocked around out there. Physically overwhelmed.

Harvey is going to shine next year, calling it. People need to remember that this guy is 10-11 months removed from major surgery on his knee and he missed practically all of the offseason. That's a lot of time to practice and learn the system that he didn't get. But the guy appears to be getting his athleticism back and he can be a pretty lethal offensive weapon if he learns to play within Brey's system.

I don't think this team will be anything like the '15 squad. That team had so many guys who could were multi-faceted offensively. Grant and Jackson were a lethal floor command duo. They could both man point and could both slash. Hubb and Gibbs flash that kind of slashing ability, but they lack the floor general quality that those two had. I think Hubb can develop into that, not so sure about Gibbs. I really hate seeing Carmody go down, because I think he would've been that running mate with Hubb for the future. Gibbs would have had to up his game considerably or risk losing his starting spot.

Mooney doesn't get nearly enough credit. He's been a force inside for us, and I can only imagine how bad things would be without him. But he desperately needs help on the boards. He is getting ganged up by bigger, more athletic interior forwards. I felt horrible for him watching Barrett and Zion wreak havoc on him. It's hardly fair to expect him to hold things down against the two best players in the country without any help inside. Laz has to get so much better rebounding and add some physicality to his game.

Mooney has been a monster, I believe he is leading the ACC in double doubles if I remember correctly. He deserves some ACC post season awards for sure.

 

[Irish#1]

Is it?

The best teams ND played OOC were OU, UCLA and Purdont.

Irish were lucky to catch the Boilers early. They're on a roll now.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I think the point southside made was where are improvements being made. Because what he sees are bad habits, with the continual bad passing and turnovers. That seems pretty level headed to me. I'd like to hear where you think the team is improving and what good habits they are actually making.

This season is obviously an anomaly so in no ways do I think Brey is on any sort of hot seat. However I'm a little concerned that the team struggles to get offensive rhythm and guard pick rolls. That's basic basketball stuff that seems hard at this time when they shouldn't after having 69 total practices.

As I stated earlier I do think this team has the chance to be good in 2 years making a run at a top 4 finish in the ACC if Brey works his magic like he usually does.

I do see progress from an individual perspective. Hubb and Harvey in particular look better by the game.

Turnovers, bad passing and shooting are going to continue. This team doesn't have a quality floor general right now, and nobody is confident in taking that key shot.

I think 2 years from now is the money year, but I'm not writing off next year either. Hubb and Harvey continue making progress (and Hubb turns into a stellar point man), either you get Gibbs to round out his offensive game considerably or Carmody comes in and gives you a quality 1-2 punch at guard. You have Mooney back and Laz will have much needed time in the weight room, which will help him immensely in consistently grabbing more boards.

The interesting thing that I see for next year is what do you do at the 3? Pflueger is a glue guy and a defensive linchpin, but jeez, his shooting is nonexistent.

I just don't know what to expect from this group. Brey has never really been a heavy rotation guy, but he's probably gonna have to do that. Between Hubb, Gibbs, Harvey, Pflueger, Carmody, Laz, Durham and Mooney, he's gonna have to make that work. More than enough talent to field a quality ACC squad, but they're gonna need to make great strides and Brey's gonna have to find a way to get them involved.

 

[RDU Irish]

I'll hold out hope they get a mean streak and put a smack down on some folks before the season is out.

Here are some mid season points to ponder (a/o 1-29-19):

Leading scorers (PPG)- Mooney (14.4), Gibbs (13.4), Harvey (10.9), Pflueger (8.1), Goodwin (7.4), Hubb (7.3), Laszewski (7.0), Durham (6.6)

Would have though a frosh would get to double digits with Pflueger out. Who picked Mooney to be #1 pre-season? I think we all thought Harvey/Gibbs would be fighting for #1 and would think Mooney would need to be +17/ppg to beat them out.

FG% - Durham (.625), Mooney (.507), Goodwin (.417), Harvey (.400), Laszewski (.395), Pflueger (.390), Gibbs (.340), Hubb (.300)

3pt% - Mooney (.447), Pflueger (.389), Goodwin (.380), Gibbs (.341), Laszewski (.337), Harvey (.282), Hubb (.265)


The comment above about Ingelsby is hopefully coincidental not insightful. I still think a lot of the shooting will work itself out if/when the offense starts to flow. Easy to see Goodwin, Gibbs and Mooney with 40% level 3pt ability with Las, Hubb and Harvey able to get in the 35% range. Do that reliably with Mooney and Durham able to threaten enough in the post and we have some exciting offensive potential. All is far from lost but it is pretty low basketball IQ to act like this is 100% expected.

 

[RDU Irish]

Maybe we have been spoiled at point over the years with Thomas, Atkins, D Jax, Tory Jackson - Farrell took a few years to develop - but most of those guys were "the guy" at point from day one. I don't see that level of PG from Hubb's play - he is also listed as a SG on 247, Gibbs as a PG. I would rather see TJ run point, much closer to the same handle on the ball as the above list than Hubb, IMO (but still not quite there). All of them were pass first early and most of their career - always found myself wanting them to shoot more than they did.

We are better than our record with piles of room for improvement. Immediate improvement, not "wait till next year". An epic run to make the NCAA's is unreasonable from here but thinking a .500 ACC record was impossible before the start of the season is pretty weaksauce. Or even on Dec. 20 when we were 9-3 with wins over Illinois and Purdue, close losses @ UCLA and neutral site Oklahoma. But thinking 4 ACC wins was the ceiling? Hell its probably about right from here let alone before the season even began!

10 games left. @BC, @ Miami, GT, @UVA, WF, VT, @ FSU, @ Louisville, Clemson, @ Pitt. Only UVA is automatic loss really. Three of them have ONE ACC win just like us and have losing records. Four of ten are ranked, and those four are #3, #12, #15 and #25 - the worst of our ACC schedule is behind us! Our 7 ACC losses are to current #2, #3, #9, #12, #23, Syracuse and GT (who we should have beaten). Oh my gawd we suck!

My prediction - 6-12 ACC with one ACC tourney win to just avoid a losing season and set us up nicely for next year. A few shooters find their stroke to win a game or two we shouldn't and we go cold in a game or two we should win.

 

[Woneone]

This thread is hysterical. "Yea, we knew they'd be bad, so how low IQ of everyone to point out they're playing bad."

Can someone go ahead and create a "Notre Dame Men's Basketball 2020-2021" thread so we can clean up some of the stupid in this one?

Edit: Yea, time to step away from the insanity. I'm guessing we finish 5-5 (get one of either L'ville or Clemson). Hopefully over the last few games we see some growth from our young guys. But, without leaders, I can see this thing going down hill. Hopefully the thought of everyone being back keeps everyone engaged, not just trying to get the season over.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

This thread is hysterical. "Yea, we knew they'd be bad, so how low IQ of everyone to point out they're playing bad."

Can someone go ahead and create a "Notre Dame Men's Basketball 2020-2021" thread so we can clean up some of the stupid in this one?

Edit: Yea, time to step away from the insanity. I'm guessing we finish 5-5 (get one of either L'ville or Clemson). Hopefully over the last few games we see some growth from our young guys. But, without leaders, I can see this thing going down hill. Hopefully the thought of everyone being back keeps everyone engaged, not just trying to get the season over.

What does this post bring?

You got worked up about being blown about by two amazing teams, and losing some close games darn good teams.

You (and others) have shown overreaction to this seasons "downs", when the whole world knew it was coming (especially after injuries and the transfer). Overreacting like fools, comparing to past teams (who literally had different players, who are now elsewhere) has exposed the irrational, unrealistic fair weather fans.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[arrowryan]

What does this post bring?

You got worked up about being blown about by two amazing teams, and losing some close games darn good teams.

You (and others) have shown overreaction to this seasons "downs", when the whole world knew it was coming (especially after injuries and the transfer). Overreacting like fools, comparing to past teams (who literally had different players, who are now elsewhere) has exposed the irrational, unrealistic fair weather fans.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

My biggest gripe with this season is that Brey put himself and this team in this situation. I know I've said it a million times and people are annoyed of it by now, but this is the result when your coach can't consistently recruit. So I refuse to give Brey a pass for these results, you could see it coming from miles away that Notre Dame would struggle with life after Bonzie. Mike Brey basically did nothing about it and you could tell that when he only added one player in the 2017 class.

I had this thought on Saturday when I watched a little bit of the UVA game. From a school perspective and recruiting perspective, Notre Dame and UVA are pretty similar IMO. Neither of them get one and done players and academics are important at the school. UVA had a stellar 2016 class that has really paid off; besides that class, UVA doesn't really light it up on the trail.

Is Tony Bennett that much better of a coach than Brey? I don't think so. They both develop their players very well. The difference, from what I see, is that Bennett has kept the cupboard full while Brey has struggled to fill out his recruiting classes (besides 2018). Its looking like that again in 2019, UVA has two commits while Brey is sitting on nothing.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

My biggest gripe with this season is that Brey put himself and this team in this situation. I know I've said it a million times and people are annoyed of it by now, but this is the result when your coach can't consistently recruit. So I refuse to give Brey a pass for these results, you could see it coming from miles away that Notre Dame would struggle with life after Bonzie. Mike Brey basically did nothing about it and you could tell that when he only added one player in the 2017 class.

I had this thought on Saturday when I watched a little bit of the UVA game. From a school perspective and recruiting perspective, Notre Dame and UVA are pretty similar IMO. Neither of them get one and done players and academics are important at the school. UVA had a stellar 2016 class that has really paid off; besides that class, UVA doesn't really light it up on the trail.

Is Tony Bennett that much better of a coach than Brey? I don't think so. They both develop their players very well. The difference, from what I see, is that Bennett has kept the cupboard full while Brey has struggled to fill out his recruiting classes (besides 2018). Its looking like that again in 2019, UVA has two commits while Brey is sitting on nothing.

- UVA has established itself as a top tier, #1 program. ND has certainly not.
- This is NOT NCAA football recruiting, gap classes happen, a lot. It's part of the game (unless you're a powerhouse / recruit one and done players)
- ND actually has student athletes, most of their competitors do not.
- ND has very little basketball history (relative to most blue bloods) and is labeled a football school.

Look at the Purdue's and IU's... Painter clearly can't establish consistent classes...IU has actually done a really solid job of recruiting, and even then they're still garbage.

It sounds like you want Mike Krzyzewski, that's not what you're going to get. I'm sorry to break that to you.