2018-2019 Notre Dame Men's Basketball

[FightingIrishLover7]

Additionally (for those that are concerned about the "current talent")

We've mentioned losing seniors Rex and Elijah, but I feel like a lot of people aren't factoring Matt Ryan's (silly) depature into the mix as well.

Matt would be a senior right now.
(current stats on a winless SEC conference, Vandy, right now)

SEASON TEAM MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
2018-19 VAN 24.2 3.1-8.0 .384 2.3-6.3 .360 1.0-1.3 .760 2.7 1.1 0.2 0.3 1.9 1.1 9.3

 

[Irish#1]

- UVA has established itself as a top tier, #1 program. ND has certainly not.
- This is NOT NCAA football recruiting, gap classes happen, a lot. It's part of the game (unless you're a powerhouse / recruit one and done players)
- ND actually has student athletes, most of their competitors do not.
- ND has very little basketball history (relative to most blue bloods) and is labeled a football school.

Look at the Purdue's and IU's... Painter clearly can't establish consistent classes...IU has actually done a really solid job of recruiting, and even then they're still garbage.

It sounds like you want Mike Krzyzewski, that's not what you're going to get. I'm sorry to break that to you.

I tend to agree with Arrow on the recruiting part. As far as Purdue, I disagree. Painter has done a very good job of recruiting and being consistent over the years. The team had a slow start this year, but they've figured it out.

If you model your program like a UVA or a Butler, you go after those pretty good kids that are going to stay four years and become a solid team by the time they are seniors. A lot of teams are doing that because the 5 star one and done kids are basically going to Duke, Kansas or Kentucky. You'll see someone like Sparty or UNC land the one and done kids, but not as many and as regularly as those three.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I tend to agree with Arrow on the recruiting part. As far as Purdue, I disagree. Painter has done a very good job of recruiting and being consistent over the years. The team had a slow start this year, but they've figured it out.

What? Lol

https://247sports.com/college/purdue/Season/2018-Basketball/Commits/
(use the sliders)

national recruiting class rankings
2018 = 49th
2017 = 34th
2016 = 108th (only one player)
2015 = 37th
2014 = 33rd

Great recruiting, especially for a "basketball school".

 

[RDU Irish]

What does this post bring?

You got worked up about being blown about by two amazing teams, and losing some close games darn good teams.

You (and others) have shown overreaction to this seasons "downs", when the whole world knew it was coming (especially after injuries and the transfer). Overreacting like fools, comparing to past teams (who literally had different players, who are now elsewhere) has exposed the irrational, unrealistic fair weather fans.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I'm glad I don't live in your world - I have seen plenty of whining about the losses prior to UVA/Duke. Nobody I know expected either game to be competitive and the fair weather types didn't even tune in to UNC (which I attended and enjoyed thoroughly despite the loss).

At the time, I was hearing a lot of back handed positives that Rex and Burns going out opened the door for "better" players to grow up fast and avoid losing them to transfers. Those two were largely panned as hamstringing our offense - people foamed at the mouth about how horrible they were on that side of the ball. Yet our offense has been steaming poo in their absence despite supposedly better pure shooters all over the court.

Burns, Pflueger and Carmody are a lot of minutes to lose for the year and it is hard to bank on Durham's durability at this point. The fear that Brey was propped up by some amazingly underrated players in Pat, Jerian, Zach, Bonzi, DJ, STEVE etc I believe is unfounded and agree it is a bit chicken little nancy boyish. The binary thought process is that Brey is either a good coach who will find a way to turn lemons in to lemonade by season end or this will death spiral into a last place ACC finish.

IMO, the secret sauce is all TJ - get him back on track and the rest will follow.

 

[RDU Irish]

Additionally (for those that are concerned about the "current talent")

We've mentioned losing seniors Rex and Elijah, but I feel like a lot of people aren't factoring Matt Ryan's (silly) depature into the mix as well.

Matt would be a senior right now.
(current stats on a winless SEC conference, Vandy, right now)

SEASON TEAM MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
2018-19 VAN 24.2 3.1-8.0 .384 2.3-6.3 .360 1.0-1.3 .760 2.7 1.1 0.2 0.3 1.9 1.1 9.3

I looked that up the other day - from stats looks like he still only wants to camp out behind the arc and little else. I suspect Brey wanted him to become a more complete player and he wanted to stay in his comfort zone. Hundreds of transfers per year in MBB - more than double a few short years ago and average more than 2 per team per year. It is a part of the game and Brey has worked that end OK IMO. Durham for Ryan is a pretty good trade not just from a raw talent perspective but from a team need perspective.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

(side note)
That was by no means a slight at Painter, he has been doing a nice job with the talent he has signed.

But, let's not call him a great recruiter lol.

His next big challenge is actually performing in March. He has accomplished nothing in his career in the big dance except early exits.

Purdue/ND are in about the same position, except, Brey has proven he can get to elite 8 (twice)... They have similar recruiting classes, similar great development of players. Both overachieving schools (relative to talent).

 

[Irish#1]

What? Lol

https://247sports.com/college/purdue/Season/2018-Basketball/Commits/
(use the sliders)

national recruiting class rankings
2018 = 49th
2017 = 34th
2016 = 108th (only one player)
2015 = 37th
2014 = 33rd

Great recruiting, especially for a "basketball school".

I never said he had great classes, but he's finding kids that can play as evidenced by their consistency and record over the years. He landed POY Swanigan and after he left they kept chugging along. He has Edwards who was considered the Preseason POY by some and is living up to his billing.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I never said he had great classes, but he's finding kids that can play as evidenced by their consistency and record over the years. He landed POY Swanigan and after he left they kept chugging along. He has Edwards who was considered the Preseason POY by some and is living up to his billing.

See my follow up post.

But also, you literally said, "Painter has done a very good job of recruiting and being consistent over the years."

He has certainly not been a great recruiter or even a "good one" - very ND average. He, like Brey, has been great at getting most out of his talent (pre-March madness).

Great developer =/= great recruiter.
Resourceful.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

The binary thought process is that Brey is either a good coach who will find a way to turn lemons in to lemonade by season end or this will death spiral into a last place ACC finish.

What do you mean by this?

Are you calling my thought process binary? Yours? Because, even if they did finish last, it by no means the program is dead. The season was borderline dead before it began (do to gap year), and then went full "dead" wants Elijah, Robby, and Rex fell off the roster.

The lemonade isn't coming this year, but there will hopefully be moments were you can see it coming next year, and beyond.

As a fan, this season is going to require discipline and understanding. Not to steal a cliche, but you'll have to trust the process. This isn't the first team in history to face adversity.

 

[Woneone]

What does this post bring?

You got worked up about being blown about by two amazing teams, and losing some close games darn good teams.

You (and others) have shown overreaction to this seasons "downs", when the whole world knew it was coming (especially after injuries and the transfer). Overreacting like fools, comparing to past teams (who literally had different players, who are now elsewhere) has exposed the irrational, unrealistic fair weather fans.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Here is LITERALLY A POST I MADE EARLY IN THIS SEASON

I think we need to pump the breaks a bit here.

Losing to Radford sucks, but if memory serves, Ball State was around 120 in KenPom last year when we lost to them. Radford is 142. So, pretty comparable losses, and it wasn't the end of the world last year.

What everyone needs to understand is that when Ball State happened last year, we knew who Notre Dame was. Rather, what they "could" be. We were a mid-level floor, low ceiling team. We could play bad (and lord knows we did), but playing bad was, in most cases, enough to at least be competitive with the middle tier in the ACC. When we played well, we could give teams fits. This is sans Bonzie of course.

This year, coaching included, is completely different. I don't think Brey currently knows what to do with this team. From my perspective, our best line-up includes 2/3 freshman being on the court. That means that Brey has to make some tough decisions that I don't think, at this point, he's willing to make.

I also don't think the players know what their roles are. I watched Luther Mohammad at OSU last night, and it's apparent what his role is. He plays D, he slashes. What is Hubbs role? Carmody? Goodwin? Harvey? You may be able to roll the ball out and say "Go Play" to upper class-men, but not Freshman in their second game. I think Brey really screwed the pooch with regards to cohesion of this team. But again, this is pretty much a first for him as well. You have 4 freshman that should get some minutes, a sophomore that is coming off major knee surgery, and a stretch 4 that that had moments, but never the spotlight. And that's ignoring Dunham.

Point being, I think, by the end, I think we'll be as competitive a team as we were last year. Probably outside the NCAA tournament, but seeing the bubble every now and then. The key differences being the path is going to be filled with many more highs and lows, and at the end of it, we're looking to grow, not rebuild.

There are two types of posts:

1.) Being optimistic about the future
2.) Being realistic about the present

These ideas are not mutually exclusive, but you've decided to ignore the second to try to be the smartest guy in the room, while leveling back-handed comments to those that don't automatically share your 3-year plan of optimism and rainbows.

I've talked about the future, but I've been pretty constantly critical about the play as of today, the 2018-2019 season. That isn't an over reaction, that a statement of current observations. If you want to dispute an observation made about this years play, feel free, would love the discussion.

There are hard truths to this season. Yes, we're rebuilding. Why? Because we have holes. What holes? Brey's roster management IS one. Injuries are another. Freshman have weaknesses. The ACC is loaded.

Yea, it was going to be a down year due to growing pains. That's why it's called growing PAINS, not "Growing happy fun times", because there are acknowledged discomfort that occurs. Pointing those outs isn't wrong, ignoring them is.

 

[arrowryan]

- UVA has established itself as a top tier, #1 program. ND has certainly not.
- This is NOT NCAA football recruiting, gap classes happen, a lot. It's part of the game (unless you're a powerhouse / recruit one and done players)
- ND actually has student athletes, most of their competitors do not.
- ND has very little basketball history (relative to most blue bloods) and is labeled a football school.

Look at the Purdue's and IU's... Painter clearly can't establish consistent classes...IU has actually done a really solid job of recruiting, and even then they're still garbage.

It sounds like you want Mike Krzyzewski, that's not what you're going to get. I'm sorry to break that to you.

First bold: On the court, you're correct. But UVA certainly doesn't necessarily recruit like it.

Second bold: Rarely will I compare Notre Dame basketball to Duke, UK, etc.. But I will compare Notre Dame and UVA because I think they are similar schools and recruit the same kind of player.

Third bold: I'm not looking for or wanting a Coach K. I just want a coach that will keep the team consistently competitive and make deep runs in the tourney. Coach Brey has done that recently, but his recent recruiting lapses shouldn't be accepted. I think he needs to quit going after 5 recruits unless there is legit mutual interest (Hunter Dickinson). He's no going to get those guys, so go after kids who have real interest in Notre Dame. There are kids like that all over Indiana.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Besides Isaiah Stewart and Cole Anthony in the 2019 class, what 5 stars have we spent significant resources trying to get a commit?

 

[irishrb]

Here is LITERALLY A POST I MADE EARLY IN THIS SEASON



There are two types of posts:

1.) Being optimistic about the future
2.) Being realistic about the present

These ideas are not mutually exclusive, but you've decided to ignore the second to try to be the smartest guy in the room, while leveling back-handed comments to those that don't automatically share your 3-year plan of optimism and rainbows.

I've talked about the future, but I've been pretty constantly critical about the play as of today, the 2018-2019 season. That isn't an over reaction, that a statement of current observations. If you want to dispute an observation made about this years play, feel free, would love the discussion.

There are hard truths to this season. Yes, we're rebuilding. Why? Because we have holes. What holes? Brey's roster management IS one. Injuries are another. Freshman have weaknesses. The ACC is loaded.

Yea, it was going to be a down year due to growing pains. That's why it's called growing PAINS, not "Growing happy fun times", because there are acknowledged discomfort that occurs. Pointing those outs isn't wrong, ignoring them is.

Agreed!

 

[Irish#1]

See my follow up post.

But also, you literally said, "Painter has done a very good job of recruiting and being consistent over the years."

He has certainly not been a great recruiter or even a "good one" - very ND average. He, like Brey, has been great at getting most out of his talent (pre-March madness).

Great developer =/= great recruiter.
Resourceful.

Yes I did say that, but evidently you consider "very good" = to "great". I don't think of them the same. Arrow was speaking about consistency in recruiting to avoid a big drop off. That's why I disagree on Purdue. No doubt Brey has done better at advancing in the NCAA than Painter. Looking at the last four years, it appears that Painter has Purdue trending the right way where Brey is struggling. Brey is 32-6, 24-12, 26-10 & 21-15 the last four years. Painter is 21-13, 26-8, 27-8 & 30-7.

 

[arrowryan]

Besides Isaiah Stewart and Cole Anthony in the 2019 class, what 5 stars have we spent significant resources trying to get a commit?

Jeremiah Robinson-Earl. I saw him on his OV when he was tailgating. I'm not saying they should stop recruiting them, but just choose wisely.

I would've rather the staff locate and offer someone like Joe Girard much earlier.

Coach Brey, per 247, offered 6 five stars, 5 four stars, and 1 three star. Just looking at that, I would've thought Notre Dame was a frequent visitor of the final four and always competed for the top spot in the ACC. We all know that isn't the case.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Jeremiah Robinson-Earl. I saw him on his OV when he was tailgating. I'm not saying they should stop recruiting them, but just choose wisely.

I would've rather the staff locate and offer someone like Joe Girard much earlier.

Coach Brey, per 247, offered 6 five stars, 5 four stars, and 1 three star. Just looking at that, I would've thought Notre Dame was a frequent visitor of the final four and always competed for the top spot in the ACC. We all know that isn't the case.

I guess what I'm asking is, prior to this year, has Brey really spent much time at all going after 5 stars.

If there ever was a year to go after a 5 star, this was the year, given the very good (and very large) class last year. I was OK with him rolling the dice.

From your comments, I thought you were implying that Brey has a long history of going after 5 stars and failing.

 

[BabyIrish]

Here is LITERALLY A POST I MADE EARLY IN THIS SEASON



There are two types of posts:

1.) Being optimistic about the future
2.) Being realistic about the present

These ideas are not mutually exclusive, but you've decided to ignore the second to try to be the smartest guy in the room, while leveling back-handed comments to those that don't automatically share your 3-year plan of optimism and rainbows.

I've talked about the future, but I've been pretty constantly critical about the play as of today, the 2018-2019 season. That isn't an over reaction, that a statement of current observations. If you want to dispute an observation made about this years play, feel free, would love the discussion.

There are hard truths to this season. Yes, we're rebuilding. Why? Because we have holes. What holes? Brey's roster management IS one. Injuries are another. Freshman have weaknesses. The ACC is loaded.

Yea, it was going to be a down year due to growing pains. That's why it's called growing PAINS, not "Growing happy fun times", because there are acknowledged discomfort that occurs. Pointing those outs isn't wrong, ignoring them is.

This is spot on. Never at any point did I think we’d make the tourney especially after Rex went down which is why I was adamant that his loss hurt this team a ton this year. With that being said watching them play in person vs Virginia was hard. Certainly I can understand why we looked bad on offense, Virginia has always been an elite defensive team. However the way we looked on defense was disheartening because we couldn’t guard the pick and roll. Virginia got so many easy looks in the lane. Pick and roll isn’t a new revelation it’s the foundation of all offense in basketball at pretty much every competitive level. We looked lost throughout the majority of the game.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I guess what I'm asking is, prior to this year, has Brey really spent much time at all going after 5 stars.

If there ever was a year to go after a 5 star, this was the year, given the very good (and very large) class last year. I was OK with him rolling the dice.

From your comments, I thought you were implying that Brey has a long history of going after 5 stars and failing.

https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Season/2018-Basketball/Offers/

You can use the drop downs to filter through past offers/commits/interests/etc.

You can argue, the past 3ish years, that Brey may be putting in too much time going after 5 stars. He wants that athleticism to take it to the next level.

 

[ab2cmiller]

https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Season/2018-Basketball/Offers/

You can use the drop downs to filter through past offers/commits/interests/etc.

You can argue, the past 3ish years, that Brey may be putting in too much time going after 5 stars. He wants that athleticism to take it to the next level.

While I appreciate the link, all that tells me is what 5 stars were offered in prior years. What it doesn't tell me is if we spent much time and effort "actively recruiting" any of those 5 stars. This years class is about the only time I can recall where we dumped a huge amount of time pursuing any 5 stars with the only other prior one I can think of being Thon Maker.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

While I appreciate the link, all that tells me is what 5 stars were offered in prior years. What it doesn't tell me is if we spent much time and effort "actively recruiting" any of those 5 stars. This years class is about the only time I can recall where we dumped a huge amount of time pursuing any 5 stars with the only other prior one I can think of being Thon Maker.

Generally, if the got an offer, then by definition quite a bit of time went into them. The exact amount, can obviously vary. Unfortunately, other than subjective reporting that may hint at the "dedication" to a given player, we'll never know how much time/resources go into the individual player. It falls into the mysterious world of college recruiting.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Generally, if the got an offer, then by definition quite a bit of time went into them. The exact amount, can obviously vary. Unfortunately, other than subjective reporting that may hint at the "dedication" to a given player, we'll never know how much time/resources go into the individual player. It falls into the mysterious world of college recruiting.

I guess I disagree with the assumption that just because a 5 star kid gets an offer, it means that we've spent a lot of time and effort that could've been better used recruiting other kids.

I think that Brey should continue to pursue 5 star kids. I wouldn't recommend spending as much time on them as he did this year. But again, I have no problem with him rolling the dice on 5 stars this year. If there was ever a year to do it, it was this year.

With that said, Brey does deserve blame (as others have said) for the recruiting strategy to be content with a class of one (Harvey) in 2017. This resulted in 10 scholarship players on the roster last year and 12 including the walk on's. Players get hurt and we didn't even have enough guys to go 5 on 5 for part of the year last year. That's on Coach Brey. Period.

Of course this recruiting shortfall in 2017 resulted in a great "sales ptich" to the 2018 class and we got some great kids. But that recruiting gap year will cost us this year and next.

 

[Rocket 94]

- UVA has established itself as a top tier, #1 program. ND has certainly not.
- This is NOT NCAA football recruiting, gap classes happen, a lot. It's part of the game (unless you're a powerhouse / recruit one and done players)
- ND actually has student athletes, most of their competitors do not.
- ND has very little basketball history (relative to most blue bloods) and is labeled a football school.

Look at the Purdue's and IU's... Painter clearly can't establish consistent classes...IU has actually done a really solid job of recruiting, and even then they're still garbage.

It sounds like you want Mike Krzyzewski, that's not what you're going to get. I'm sorry to break that to you.

Notre Dame basketball is #8 all in wins and #11 in winning percentage. In fact they have more wins and a better winning percentage than Indiana does which is a basketball school.

No reason that ND should not be in the same tier as Virginia or even Purdue. Neither schools recruits one and dones and has not recruited all that great anyway.

 

[Irish YJ]

- UVA has established itself as a top tier, #1 program. ND has certainly not.
- This is NOT NCAA football recruiting, gap classes happen, a lot. It's part of the game (unless you're a powerhouse / recruit one and done players)
- ND actually has student athletes, most of their competitors do not.
- ND has very little basketball history (relative to most blue bloods) and is labeled a football school.

Look at the Purdue's and IU's... Painter clearly can't establish consistent classes...IU has actually done a really solid job of recruiting, and even then they're still garbage.

It sounds like you want Mike Krzyzewski, that's not what you're going to get. I'm sorry to break that to you.

IU has only been inside the top 20 recruiting twice in the last 5 years. Not sure I'd call that solid. I'm an IU fan, but IU is not a basketball school anymore. Well they are, but only in tradition.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

IU has only been inside the top 20 recruiting twice in the last 5 years. Not sure I'd call that solid. I'm an IU fan, but IU is not a basketball school anymore. Well they are, but only in tradition.

Past 5 years have still been slightly better than ND (on average) as a whole.

Go back 5 years before that, IU landed some stud players. Over the past 10 years, IU has certainly had more talent (on paper) than either Purdue or ND. (which is why that program got a new coach, who's also probably overrated).

 

[Irish YJ]

Past 5 years have still been slightly better than ND (on average) as a whole.

Go back 5 years before that, IU landed some stud players. Over the past 10 years, IU has certainly had more talent (on paper) than either Purdue or ND. (which is why that program got a new coach, who's also probably overrated).

The previous 5 years had two good classes as well. And just like last year's good class, it relies on one-and-done kids (and inflated because of the one and done). Again, not consistent. IU this year has Morgan and Langford. Both are talented, but they have zero shooting around them. They will both be gone at year end, and IU will struggle more next year as no true shooters are incoming.

Not bagging on Archie just yet. Aside from the two I mentioned, there's not much to the team. When one of your team leaders/starters is a walk on, and averages 1 pt per game, you're not going to go to far.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

The previous 5 years had two good classes as well. And just like last year's good class, it relies on one-and-done kids (and inflated because of the one and done). Again, not consistent. IU this year has Morgan and Langford. Both are talented, but they have zero shooting around them. They will both be gone at year end, and IU will struggle more next year as no true shooters are incoming.

Not bagging on Archie just yet. Aside from the two I mentioned, there's not much to the team. When one of your team leaders/starters is a walk on, and averages 1 pt per game, you're not going to go to far.

Again, only "good" relative to ND and Purdue, I understand they're not a consistent powerhouse (ala Duke/UK).

As for Archie, I'm just not sold on him. I'd like for IU to do well, I think it's good for the state (although, I'd love for more people to migrate to ND).

I will admit, a lot of suspicions regarding Archie stem from my bias via his brother's facade program.

 

[Irish YJ]

Again, only "good" relative to ND and Purdue, I understand they're not a consistent powerhouse (ala Duke/UK).

As for Archie, I'm just not sold on him. I'd like for IU to do well, I think it's good for the state (although, I'd love for more people to migrate to ND).

I will admit, a lot of suspicions regarding Archie stem from my bias via his brother's facade program.

I love and cheer for both ND and IU.
While I will always be an IU fan, they aren't doing what they need to do. Facilities are run down, and Archie had to beg for locker rooms. The admin is pretty hostile to all sports. Their only means of a return to prominence is by a stud coach. I'm giving Archie two more years.

As far as ND goes, I love them, and always will, but recruiting sucks biggly. Call it academic challenges, lack of tradition, etc.. but it sucks. I'm just happy they have a top 20 team every once in a while. They have certainly out performed IU lately. I'm torn on Brey. Could someone else recruit better at ND? IDK. If so, we need to part ways. If not, we need to hold on to him for as long as we can.

 

[Irish#1]

I love and cheer for both ND and IU.
While I will always be an IU fan, they aren't doing what they need to do. Facilities are run down, and Archie had to beg for locker rooms. The admin is pretty hostile to all sports. Their only means of a return to prominence is by a stud coach. I'm giving Archie two more years.

As far as ND goes, I love them, and always will, but recruiting sucks biggly. Call it academic challenges, lack of tradition, etc.. but it sucks. I'm just happy they have a top 20 team every once in a while. They have certainly out performed IU lately. I'm torn on Brey. Could someone else recruit better at ND? IDK. If so, we need to part ways. If not, we need to hold on to him for as long as we can.

Agree on IU. IU needs to find themselves and get back to its core. They spent a ton of money on the football stadium and facilities when some of that should have went towards Assembly Hall. No amount of money or magic is going to make IU football more than it ever has been. Investing in b-ball would be more prudent. I went to an IU b-ball game about 15 years ago and was not impressed with Assembly Hall at that time. It had an old run down appearance and feeling to me. I'm not sure about Miller, but agree he needs a little more time. He's still trying to get his system installed. Langford has been decent, but he lacks an outside shot, tends to stand around on offense and needs to learn how to play defense. Can't remember the players name, but there appears to be one of the players dad's causing problems which is probably hurting chemistry.

ND is not going to get those top kids until they upgrade the facilities for b-ball. Digger knew how to recruit. He landed Tripucka, Shumate, Woolridge, Dantley, Paxson, Ellis and Rivers, but the facilities weren't old back then.

 

[RDU Irish]

We are seriously bitching about recruiting coming off of Harvey/Durham/Las/Carmody/Goodwin/Hubb/Daugherty the last two years?

On court success and badly overdue new practice facilities have been capitalized on. Where we go from here is up to Coach Brey and all signs are he is trying to shop down an even nicer aisle. Don't know if you don't try.

We wouldn't be having this convo if TJ was playing even mediocre right now.

 

[Irish YJ]

Agree on IU. IU needs to find themselves and get back to its core. They spent a ton of money on the football stadium and facilities when some of that should have went towards Assembly Hall. No amount of money or magic is going to make IU football more than it ever has been. Investing in b-ball would be more prudent. I went to an IU b-ball game about 15 years ago and was not impressed with Assembly Hall at that time. It had an old run down appearance and feeling to me. I'm not sure about Miller, but agree he needs a little more time. He's still trying to get his system installed. Langford has been decent, but he lacks an outside shot, tends to stand around on offense and needs to learn how to play defense. Can't remember the players name, but there appears to be one of the players dad's causing problems which is probably hurting chemistry.

ND is not going to get those top kids until they upgrade the facilities for b-ball. Digger knew how to recruit. He landed Tripucka, Shumate, Woolridge, Dantley, Paxson, Ellis and Rivers, but the facilities weren't old back then.

IU felt old to me in the early 90s, Now it's just laughable. Love the tradition, and the noise factor, but good Lord, bull doze the thing. Langford has zero support this year, and has started to wear down. Would love it if he stayed another year, but honestly I can't blaming for wanting to get the hell out either.

ND BB has the same challenges the FB team has, but doesn't have the tradition to fall back on. Not sure facilities make that big of difference (at ND), but it sure doesn't hurt. I just enjoy ND BB for what it is, and set the proper expectations lol. I've done the same with IU, although I did get sucked in to early excitement this year.

We are seriously bitching about recruiting coming off of Harvey/Durham/Las/Carmody/Goodwin/Hubb/Daugherty the last two years?

On court success and badly overdue new practice facilities have been capitalized on. Where we go from here is up to Coach Brey and all signs are he is trying to shop down an even nicer aisle. Don't know if you don't try.

We wouldn't be having this convo if TJ was playing even mediocre right now.

Even if TJ was doing well, ....... If having an average class rating of 65th over those two years (17 and 18) is OK, then by all means be happy. It's not going to be the typical recipe for a top 10 or even top 25 team though.

I'm just happy to see Brey do more with less, and occasionally make a run in the tournament.