2018-2019 Notre Dame Men's Basketball

RDU Irish

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On Harvey - I get the impression his most comfortable taking his man off the dribble and pulling up for 12-15ft jumpers. That style is hard to mesh with at the moment, when you have a a bunch of kids trying to figure out how to play together. He isn't a spot up shooter nor is he a finish at the rim or drop a dime off a pick and roll.

Honestly, he reminds me of a less athletic (at least at the moment coming off injury) Russell Carter, especially Carter's junior year. Carter would try to get to the rim more, but both can/could shoot the 3 and was essentially a one-man show....Carter averaged about 1 assist per game and the same goes for Harvey.

Where I see the big difference is that Carter was surrounded by some outstanding 3 point shooters and Quinn ran point. This year, there isn't a Colin Falls type (yet) which bogs down the flow and the effectiveness of a player like Harvey. Simply less lanes and opportunity to flourish.

Well said. To his demeanor - missing two FTs with two minutes left was really devastating. He doesn't show it in his emotions but I feel like his play/shot tightens up under pressure. I expect his shooting percentages to make a big jump once he gets comfortable but just seems out of rhythm more often than not.

Another point on that blocked Las dunk, there was about 95% hand between the swat and the ball. Replayed it a hundred times in the stadium which only reinforced what was an obvious foul in real time. Classic cluster fvck ACC officiating. Have to say TV Ted was not as bad as usual though. He had a few calls for us early but found his way back home late.
 

ab2cmiller

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Hand is part of the ball. He could've got 100% of the hand, if the hand is holding the ball, it's not a foul.
 

Ndaccountant

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Well said. To his demeanor - missing two FTs with two minutes left was really devastating. He doesn't show it in his emotions but I feel like his play/shot tightens up under pressure. I expect his shooting percentages to make a big jump once he gets comfortable but just seems out of rhythm more often than not.

Another point on that blocked Las dunk, there was about 95% hand between the swat and the ball. Replayed it a hundred times in the stadium which only reinforced what was an obvious foul in real time. Classic cluster fvck ACC officiating. Have to say TV Ted was not as bad as usual though. He had a few calls for us early but found his way back home late.

On more thing on Harvey FT's, and the general play of the team down the stretch.....I feel we are seeing heavy legs. Harvey and Hubb are still coming back from injury but put up over 30 minutes each last night. Everyone that is playing major minutes sans Gibbs have never done so at this level. I have been trying to find scoring/offensive splits within halves and have not been successful. But I am willing to bet that ND's FT% and FG% drops off quite a bit once they get under 8 minutes and it gets more pronounced under 4 minutes.
 

RDU Irish

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Hand is part of the ball. He could've got 100% of the hand, if the hand is holding the ball, it's not a foul.

Never heard that before and my first inclination was to squawk at you but you are correct. Having watched tons of basketball - I can't remember ever hearing that and almost all the time any bodily contact called a foul. This is apparently true and someone should notify 99% of basketball players, coaches and officials, IMO.
 

ab2cmiller

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Never heard that before and my first inclination was to squawk at you but you are correct. Having watched tons of basketball - I can't remember ever hearing that and almost all the time any bodily contact called a foul. This is apparently true and someone should notify 99% of basketball players, coaches and officials, IMO.

I take no credit for it. Laphonso Ellis pointed it out immediately as the color analyst last night.
 

RDU Irish

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On more thing on Harvey FT's, and the general play of the team down the stretch.....I feel we are seeing heavy legs. Harvey and Hubb are still coming back from injury but put up over 30 minutes each last night. Everyone that is playing major minutes sans Gibbs have never done so at this level. I have been trying to find scoring/offensive splits within halves and have not been successful. But I am willing to bet that ND's FT% and FG% drops off quite a bit once they get under 8 minutes and it gets more pronounced under 4 minutes.

Endurance as the ice factor? I buy that more for shooting from the field than the FT line but you make a good point. I just don't want to wait until next year for them to grow up - would prefer to see some nice strides through the end of the season!
 

RDU Irish

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I take no credit for it. Laphonso Ellis pointed it out immediately as the color analyst last night.

Wish I had recorded the game, would like to rewatch and see the TV view and commentary.

Really isn't a very good venue to watch a game. Parking sucks, my first half seats were trash and even from mid court lower level visibility isn't great. Whole seating set up needs more slope for better viewing angles. Tons of video boards are obvious add ons that obstruct views in all the upper corners, could be a college freshman running the boards too. Design sucks, took quite a few minutes to find the score on their board and data was haphazardly placed.

Low energy fans too - zero interaction, they kind of ignored my existence. No "good luck" or "Go Heels" just quietly go about their day. Quite a few looked like they just came off the farm and forgot to bring all their teeth. Took some effort to figure out where the non-band student section was. Intros at beginning were unbelievably weak. Lots of empty seats for an ACC game - I mean NCST has a better home crowd than that. Screw Roy Williams and the fake class university of North Carolina on multiple levels.
 

Woneone

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Two things.

1) To say missing almost all of the offseason rehabbing a torn ACL has little to no effect on his capabilities is purely asinine. You can say it doesn't matter all you want. It does. Period.

2) He's not a good distributor right now and is struggling offensively. Yeah. HE'S A FRESHMAN! He's essentially being asked to play the toughest position from a technical perspective on the court with zero experience doing so in Brey's system. Again, not having much time during the offseason to learn and practice his role plays a huge role in his struggles as well.

I get you're frustrated, but if you were expecting Hubb to be an All-ACC PG the second he stepped on campus after rehabbing from a major knee injury, then you're being completely unrealistic. They are valid concerns in regards to this season, but being completely realistic, most ND fans knew there was going to be growing pains and they've only become greater with all the injuries.

You can go back and look at last season's thread to see I was about the most optimistic person on this board as it related to it's chances to make the NCAA's. Over and over I thought we had a chance, while others jumped ship. Yes, I'm frustrated about this year, just like everyone else I would assume, but that doesn't mean you can't point out a players weakness.

I'll give you one thing that last year would have helped, him understanding the PG position. If I'm reading things correctly, he's always played off the ball. Chris Lykes was the PG on his HS team when he was a junior. He didn't play the point.

No, playing last year would not have changed his shot (which was pointed out by recruiting profiles as a weakness, edit: The low release point). No, it wouldn't have made him better around the rim (that takes time getting used to DI athleticism), nor would a year playing the point at Gonzaga freaking High School for one year make him a great distributor.

Good lord, you can watch him shoot foul shots and go, "Yea, that needs adjusted if he wants to be consistent".

So no, I don't think another year at Gonzaga high school would have changed his offensive trajectory for this year. To suggest that his torn ACL is the reason he doesn't know how to take on length on a drive, or the arc on his shot could take out rafters is asinine.

I didn't expect him to come in here and be All-ACC. But that doesn't me criticism of him should be off limits. He's GOING to be a good player. A REALLY good player if he gets some of this stuff corrected. Pointing out fairly obvious flaws isn't suggesting that he won't be really good.

Point is, right now, is he a good offensive player? Seems like the only answer to that people want to give to that starts with, "But..."
 
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FightingIrishLover7

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You can go back and look at last season's thread to see I was about the most optimistic person on this board as it related to it's chances to make the NCAA's. Over and over I thought we had a chance, while others jumped ship. Yes, I'm frustrated about this year, just like everyone else I would assume, but that doesn't mean you can't point out a players weakness.

I'll give you one thing that last year would have helped, him understanding the PG position. If I'm reading things correctly, he's always played off the ball. Chris Lykes was the PG on his HS team when he was a junior. He didn't play the point.

No, playing last year would not have changed his shot (which was pointed out by recruiting profiles as a weakness, edit: The low release point). No, it wouldn't have made him better around the rim (that takes time getting used to DI athleticism), nor would a year playing the point at Gonzaga freaking High School for one year make him a great distributor.

Good lord, you can watch him shoot foul shots and go, "Yea, that needs adjusted if he wants to be consistent".

So no, I don't think another year at Gonzaga high school would have changed his offensive trajectory for this year. To suggest that his torn ACL is the reason he doesn't know how to take on length on a drive, or the arc on his shot could take out rafters is asinine.

I didn't expect him to come in here and be All-ACC. But that doesn't me criticism of him should be off limits. He's GOING to be a good player. A REALLY good player if he gets some of this stuff corrected. Pointing out fairly obvious flaws isn't suggesting that he won't be really good.

Point is, right now, is he a good offensive player? Seems like the only answer to that people want to give to that starts with, "But..."
Dude, scale back your expectations.

We (I am) thankful that Prentiss is even able to play this season.

You're going to look really silly 3 years from now, sweating how he looks 4 games into his career acc play, coming off an acl...

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Woneone

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Dude, scale back your expectations.

We (I am) thankful that Prentiss is even able to play this season.

You're going to look really silly 3 years from now, sweating how he looks 4 games into his career acc play, coming off an acl...

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How?

When I said that as of right now he isn't a good offensive player? When I said he could be a good player? When I said he could be a really good player?

It's going to be a long year for some out of touch fans that post in the wrong season's thread....

lol

Does that only apply for past seasons, or continuously harping on how wrong someone will be seasons from now apply to?
 

BabyIrish

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You can go back and look at last season's thread to see I was about the most optimistic person on this board as it related to it's chances to make the NCAA's. Over and over I thought we had a chance, while others jumped ship. Yes, I'm frustrated about this year, just like everyone else I would assume, but that doesn't mean you can't point out a players weakness.

I'll give you one thing that last year would have helped, him understanding the PG position. If I'm reading things correctly, he's always played off the ball. Chris Lykes was the PG on his HS team when he was a junior. He didn't play the point.

No, playing last year would not have changed his shot (which was pointed out by recruiting profiles as a weakness, edit: The low release point). No, it wouldn't have made him better around the rim (that takes time getting used to DI athleticism), nor would a year playing the point at Gonzaga freaking High School for one year make him a great distributor.

Good lord, you can watch him shoot foul shots and go, "Yea, that needs adjusted if he wants to be consistent".

So no, I don't think another year at Gonzaga high school would have changed his offensive trajectory for this year. To suggest that his torn ACL is the reason he doesn't know how to take on length on a drive, or the arc on his shot could take out rafters is asinine.

I didn't expect him to come in here and be All-ACC. But that doesn't me criticism of him should be off limits. He's GOING to be a good player. A REALLY good player if he gets some of this stuff corrected. Pointing out fairly obvious flaws isn't suggesting that he won't be really good.

Point is, right now, is he a good offensive player? Seems like the only answer to that people want to give to that starts with, "But..."

Yes it absolutely would have helped him go senior year and think of the missed time he had when he got on campus this summer. It was a lot including the tour they did. Injuries set you back, it’s not even debatable.
 

Irishize

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ND is good enough to compete but they lack the horses to win. Hopefully the youngsters gel & they catch fire as a team by ACC tourney.

Way too many missed 3s today vs NCST
 

fightingirish26

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Godwin was great in the second half, Nate L needs to spend some serious time in the weight room, this year will be tough but if injuries are kind next year we could be really good.
 

dad4aa

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ND is good enough to compete but they lack the horses to win. Hopefully the youngsters gel & they catch fire as a team by ACC tourney.

Way too many missed 3s today vs NCST

They might not be winning but they are at least being competitive which can really help in a rebuilding year.
 

Section23

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Nice to see that we are in the games, just don't have enough horsepower to maintain the effort for 40 minutes that's needed to win games against good ACC teams this year. Like others have mentioned, will be valuable experience moving forward. Really like the freshman and excited to see what we can do once everyone is back to full strength (if that ever happens!)
 

arrowryan

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I’m in the minority, but seasons like this almost 20 years into a coach’s system isn’t acceptable. This is what happens when Brey can’t consistently recruit. This recent class was awesome, but have they seemed to take a 3 year break before that. I know that this season will help the team in the long run, but that doesn’t make this any less unacceptable. Since Brey got here, Notre Dame basketball has been driven by seniors and multi year starters. This year was a complete 180 and there’s only one way that happens.
 

Henges24

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I’m in the minority, but seasons like this almost 20 years into a coach’s system isn’t acceptable. This is what happens when Brey can’t consistently recruit. This recent class was awesome, but have they seemed to take a 3 year break before that. I know that this season will help the team in the long run, but that doesn’t make this any less unacceptable. Since Brey got here, Notre Dame basketball has been driven by seniors and multi year starters. This year was a complete 180 and there’s only one way that happens.

Agree but this isn’t ND football. Expectations aren’t exactly as high and Brey has shown he can coach when the pieces of the puzzle are in place. Recruiting has to be about the worst in the ACC, excluding last year’s class. Unacceptable. If Brey can’t recruit then he needs to put the right assistants in place to do it for him - and nothing has changed since Ayers and Humphrey took over. Again, excluding last year’s class.
 

PerthDomer

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Well we're down 2 players to season ending injury one guy to transfer and one guy is out for the next several games... this is a bubble team if not for bad injury luck
 

Woneone

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Agree but this isn’t ND football. Expectations aren’t exactly as high and Brey has shown he can coach when the pieces of the puzzle are in place. Recruiting has to be about the worst in the ACC, excluding last year’s class. Unacceptable. If Brey can’t recruit then he needs to put the right assistants in place to do it for him - and nothing has changed since Ayers and Humphrey took over. Again, excluding last year’s class.

This is both Ayers and Humphrey's third year, and the previous two they've landed DJ Harvey, got Juwan Durham here (I'm sure in no small part because Humphrey was also a big man transfer to ND) and a Top 10 class.

To say the talent level (star ratings) hasn't improved since they arrived isn't real fair.
 

BabyIrish

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I’m in the minority, but seasons like this almost 20 years into a coach’s system isn’t acceptable. This is what happens when Brey can’t consistently recruit. This recent class was awesome, but have they seemed to take a 3 year break before that. I know that this season will help the team in the long run, but that doesn’t make this any less unacceptable. Since Brey got here, Notre Dame basketball has been driven by seniors and multi year starters. This year was a complete 180 and there’s only one way that happens.

Did you say the same thing about Coach K in 2016 when he had no depth?
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Wait, people are upset with Brey? Lol

Dude has almost snuck out some huge wins already this year with a injury/transfer ridden team.

Pound for pound, this is one of his most impressive coaching jobs yet, given the hand he has to play with.

But, real ND basketball fans new this season was coming (and that was even before Burns moved home and Rex and Robby went out for the season).

Real fans knew the fake fans would overreact, complain, grow bitter etc.

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FightingIrishLover7

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Should I bump this thread in preperation of comments about how...

"ND is vastly less athletic than Virginia"
"Tony Bennett makes Brey look like a high school girl's coach"
"ND needs to be relegated to the MAC"

Now, for those of you that what to watch and see how the young guns look/grow during today's game...

1pm EST CBS!
 

Irishize

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Truthfully, I don’t follow the bb team as much as fb but I do watch every game I can...just not enough to truly evaluate the guys who have been in the program a few years like TJ Gibbs.

Listening to the II Podcast, all 3 dudes were pretty down on him as far as his career progression. They all agreed Mooney as been the one guy who has stepped up his game when they fully expected Gibbs would be that guy.

I’m w/ most of you though...just try to enjoy watching them mature & gel as a unit knowing all will be back next for a more competitive run.
 

arrowryan

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This is a game that will benefit the team, especially the young guys, longterm. If Brey was just a slightly above average recruiter year in and year out, the next two games would have a lot of meaning.
 

fightingirish26

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Truthfully, I don’t follow the bb team as much as fb but I do watch every game I can...just not enough to truly evaluate the guys who have been in the program a few years like TJ Gibbs.

Listening to the II Podcast, all 3 dudes were pretty down on him as far as his career progression. They all agreed Mooney as been the one guy who has stepped up his game when they fully expected Gibbs would be that guy.

I’m w/ most of you though...just try to enjoy watching them mature & gel as a unit knowing all will be back next for a more competitive run.

Yeah, Gibbs just seems to disappear way too often in what seems like every game at this point. Has hit some big 3s both this season and in his career but doesn't appear comfortable being the main man.

Mooney was pretty much just a big guy who could hit 3s last year but has now developed into a very good rebounder and has added the ability to play closer to the basket. Has played very well at times this year.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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This is a game that will benefit the team, especially the young guys, longterm. If Brey was just a slightly above average recruiter year in and year out, the next two games would have a lot of meaning.

LOL Wtf kind of backhanded statement is this?

https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Season/2018-Basketball/Commits/

He's coming off the #15 overall class, with an average rating of .9486....

God forbid that freshmen need time to adjust to ACC caliber competition.

......
People need to realize how much Brey has over excelled at developing talent, Mooney being the latest.
Bonzie, Farrell, Abromaitis, Harnagody, Hansbrough, McAlarney, Auguste, etc, etc....
Even project players like the Geben's/Ty Nash's finished really, really solid.

All HUGE overachievers.

God forbid two players (like posters like to exaggerate) Rex and TJ "plateau", it's back to the shitcan for Brey... Total BUST of a talent developer.

If peiople think his "development failure rate" is high, they should look at Kelly...
 
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