2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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kmoose

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So you're saying if Trump doesn't pay the General Contractors it's not his fault that the sub-contractors didn't get paid. Just more proof to support my belief that Trump has no moral compass.

That's not what he said at all. He said it was ONE of the possible reasons for subcontractors not getting paid. He said it was LIKELY the General Contractor's fault, and went on to provide 4 possible scenarios, 3 of which would have been the GC doing the screwing, and one of which would have been Trump doing the screwing.
 

phgreek

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That's not what he said at all. He said it was ONE of the possible reasons for subcontractors not getting paid. He said it was LIKELY the General Contractor's fault, and went on to provide 4 possible scenarios, 3 of which would have been the GC doing the screwing, and one of which would have been Trump doing the screwing.

Thanks Moose...exactly. Ya know, I find myself saying this more often lately...

COME ON EDDY!
 

phgreek

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So you're saying if Trump doesn't pay the General Contractors it's not his fault that the sub-contractors didn't get paid. Just more proof to support my belief that Trump has no moral compass.

In my eyes it's pretty straight forward. If Trump doesn't pay for services for which he contracts, then he is directly responsible for anyone further down the chain that isn't getting paid as a result. A man is only as good as his word, and it appears pretty obvious that Trump's word is no good. And if the claims that he has paid some workers sub-minimum wage are true, he is a hypocrite for even suggesting he wants to protect the working guy from those mean old politicians.

4) would be trump's fault...which I said was plausible in the first line of my post.

Are you arguing that I'm wrong about the odds on culprit, or are you looking for a step to use to get to your soapbox?

COME ON EDDY!
 

drayer54

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Just thought I'd check in and see if this nightmare where I had to choose between Hillary and Trump had ended. Apparently not.
 

EddytoNow

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4) would be trump's fault...which I said was plausible in the first line of my post.

Are you arguing that I'm wrong about the odds on culprit, or are you looking for a step to use to get to your soapbox?

COME ON EDDY!

I'm suggesting that your 4th option is more likely, Trump is the culprit. The number of accusations and lawsuits in itself suggests a pattern demonstrating Trump's unwillingness to pay for services rendered. It's not just one or two people making these accusations against him. The numbers run into the hundreds or even thousands. And that's not even counting those who just dropped their claims and moved on because they couldn't afford the legal costs of challenging The Donald.

After awhile you've got to believe there may just be a lot of truth in the accusations, since there seems to be an unlimited number of accusers. Where there's smoke there's fire.
 

phgreek

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I'm suggesting that your 4th option is more likely, Trump is the culprit.

You mean Now....because it seemed before you were suggesting I was excusing Trump vs posting alternative explanations...and questioning the story a bit...as no one named the General, so who could run it to ground...yea, it smells like a hit piece...SO.

The number of accusations and lawsuits in itself suggests a pattern demonstrating Trump's unwillingness to pay for services rendered.

Where? This is what I've read Special Report: Trump's art of the deal - Dispute your bills | Reuters How many contracts over thirty years? How many disputed? And you bet your ass I've re-negotiated jobs myself when what I got was not what I asked for, so having a hard time crying for those folks. As for trying to drive people to take less who did the job, yea thats not my thing, but it sounds like over 30 years he fealt like he was getting gouged some times and called people on it. Thats what you got?

It's not just one or two people making these accusations against him. The numbers run into the hundreds or even thousands. And that's not even counting those who just dropped their claims and moved on because they couldn't afford the legal costs of challenging The Donald.

See above reference...reuters appears to think the number is less...maybe more will come out, but I'd like to see the level of investigation reuters did (which was minimal) before I see "fire" here.

After awhile you've got to believe there may just be a lot of truth in the accusations, since there seems to be an unlimited number of accusers. Where there's smoke there's fire.

...except of course where it is a Democrat / Hillary Clinton, then all of that inferno is just smoke.

..I suppose because I don't like Trump I should just jump on board with every accusation...but it feels too third grade. I need to see something beyond the echo chamber repeating the same claims, and inflating shit.
 

BGIF

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I'm suggesting that your 4th option is more likely, Trump is the culprit. The number of accusations and lawsuits in itself suggests a pattern demonstrating Trump's unwillingness to pay for services rendered. It's not just one or two people making these accusations against him. The numbers run into the hundreds or even thousands. And that's not even counting those who just dropped their claims and moved on because they couldn't afford the legal costs of challenging The Donald.

After awhile you've got to believe there may just be a lot of truth in the accusations, since there seems to be an unlimited number of accusers. Where there's smoke there's fire.

By god, I think you're on to something.

Email, unsecured devices, mishandling confidential material, arrogance that rules do not apply to HRH. Benghazi, body count, Wag the dog. Lies, lies, lies, ... "What difference does it make?"
 

phgreek

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Yeah. I'm not sure anyone is more ANTI-HRC than I am, but there's really nothing of substance here. So they were keeping track of where "hostile" journalists were? Big Deal.

We'd at least be tied for that distinction here...

Yea today was a bunch of nothing...a lot of stuff I think we all knew...its just now HRC can't tell the same lies on Benghazi, or about her time as first lady...she needs some new lies the lemmings can parrot. Given the progression of Whoppers on the email scandal, and the non-factor that is...nothing found about HRC is surprising nor damning enough to get people off her...short of her dropping dead of a heart attack, she is going to the white house. Dirt won't change anything. Shrug.
 

drayer54

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Yeah. I'm not sure anyone is more ANTI-HRC than I am, but there's really nothing of substance here. So they were keeping track of where "hostile" journalists were? Big Deal.

I would like to be considered in the running. I agree on the Benghazi thing. I wish the GOP wouldn't have pushed this so hard, because it takes away from other Hillary areas of concern. I wish they would shine the light on the Clinton Foundation and all of the times that foreign nationals have purchased favors and access to our government.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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I would like to be considered in the running. I agree on the Benghazi thing. I wish the GOP wouldn't have pushed this so hard, because it takes away from other Hillary areas of concern. I wish they would shine the light on the Clinton Foundation and all of the times that foreign nationals have purchased favors and access to our government.

Good point, but IMO the Hillary supporters simply do not care. She's under FBI investigation and polls say it doesn't matter. That could change with the independents come November, but as far as I can tell nothing she's done (including Benghazi) is as bad as Trump.
 

Irish YJ

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Good point, but IMO the Hillary supporters simply do not care. She's under FBI investigation and polls say it doesn't matter. That could change with the independents come November, but as far as I can tell nothing she's done (including Benghazi) is as bad as Trump.

I think she's done as bad, or worse things than Trump. She's just more skilled at sidestepping it, covering it up, spinning it, and has the establishment behind her. Someone with Trumps views, and history, could probably win if they would simply STFU and convey their ideas in a more PC way. In other words, not an idiot with a motor mouth.

There is a rising tide that would latch on to a more moderately spoken GOP candidate with populist/nationalist views. I think this year is only the start (publicly) of that sentiment and the naive Utopian progressive crap will only push people farther to the extremes on both sides.

It's like throwing a frog in a pot and slowing boiling the water..... except this frog is strapped with explosives and will likely explode and take some folks with him when the water reaches a certain point. The Ds are thinking they have successfully tricked the frog, are ready to have frog soup, and them boom...
 

BleedBlueGold

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Good point, but IMO the Hillary supporters simply do not care. She's under FBI investigation and polls say it doesn't matter. That could change with the independents come November, but as far as I can tell nothing she's done (including Benghazi) is as bad as Trump.

Safe to say that most HRC supporters are ignorant to these other areas of concern. Look it up. There are numerous videos of street interviews during exit polls where HRC voters literally had no idea she voted for the Iraq war, among other things. There are also a lot of her supporters who do so simply based on the fact that she's a woman. Independent polling (that I've seen) is showing that HRC does not have their majority support. I've seen polls where 80% of 20,000+ people said they were NeverHillary. So while I somewhat agree that her supporters "don't care," I think it goes further than that.


I think she's done as bad, or worse things than Trump. She's just more skilled at sidestepping it, covering it up, spinning it, and has the establishment behind her. Someone with Trumps views, and history, could probably win if they would simply STFU and convey their ideas in a more PC way. In other words, not an idiot with a motor mouth.

There is a rising tide that would latch on to a more moderately spoken GOP candidate with populist/nationalist views. I think this year is only the start (publicly) of that sentiment and the naive Utopian progressive crap will only push people farther to the extremes on both sides.

It's like throwing a frog in a pot and slowing boiling the water..... except this frog is strapped with explosives and will likely explode and take some folks with him when the water reaches a certain point. The Ds are thinking they have successfully tricked the frog, are ready to have frog soup, and them boom...


Trump's rise is because he was anti-PC, not despite it. Trump has a massive following because "He says what everyone's thinking but are just too afraid to say themselves."

I find it ironic that you point a finger at the Left when blaming extremism within parties, yet your party nominated the most extreme nationalist/populist candidate in history. And if it wasn't for the fact that he was running against Hillary-fucking-Clinton, he would get absolutely destroyed in the general election. Hell, people hate HRC and Trump still might get destroyed.
 

IrishJayhawk

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Safe to say that most HRC supporters are ignorant to these other areas of concern. Look it up. There are numerous videos of street interviews during exit polls where HRC voters literally had no idea she voted for the Iraq war, among other things.

Street interviews are not exactly the gold standard. I could conduct street interviews to forward any narrative I want. That's why Jay-Walking was such a funny/sad segment.
That's not to say that voters aren't often ignorant. It's just not specific to Clinton voters.

Heck, 20% of the country still believes that Obama was born in another country.
Poll: 20% believe Barack Obama was born outside U.S.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Street interviews are not exactly the gold standard. I could conduct street interviews to forward any narrative I want. That's why Jay-Walking was such a funny/sad segment.
That's not to say that voters aren't often ignorant. It's just not specific to Clinton voters.

Heck, 20% of the country still believes that Obama was born in another country.
Poll: 20% believe Barack Obama was born outside U.S.

I just used it as an example of the ignorance among HRC voters. It applies across the board, but I wanted to direct my statement towards the "Hillary supporters don't care" and show an example that Hillary supporters can also just be ignorant.
 

IrishJayhawk

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I just used it as an example of the ignorance among HRC voters. It applies across the board, but I wanted to direct my statement towards the "Hillary supporters don't care" and show an example that Hillary supporters can also just be ignorant.

I guess I take issue with the use of "most." Some are ignorant to the issues. Others know the issues and believe they have been blown out of proportion for political gain.

But, yes, Hillary supporters can be ignorant.
 

EddytoNow

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Safe to say that most HRC supporters are ignorant to these other areas of concern. Look it up. There are numerous videos of street interviews during exit polls where HRC voters literally had no idea she voted for the Iraq war, among other things. There are also a lot of her supporters who do so simply based on the fact that she's a woman. Independent polling (that I've seen) is showing that HRC does not have their majority support. I've seen polls where 80% of 20,000+ people said they were NeverHillary. So while I somewhat agree that her supporters "don't care," I think it goes further than that.





Trump's rise is because he was anti-PC, not despite it. Trump has a massive following because "He says what everyone's thinking but are just too afraid to say themselves."

I find it ironic that you point a finger at the Left when blaming extremism within parties, yet your party nominated the most extreme nationalist/populist candidate in history. And if it wasn't for the fact that he was running against Hillary-fucking-Clinton, he would get absolutely destroyed in the general election. Hell, people hate HRC and Trump still might get destroyed.

Hillary has her issues and she's far from a perfect candidate, but I don't get using her vote for the Iraq War against her. That war was Bush's war, not Hillary's. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush and the others intentionally misled both the public and Congress to gain national support for Bush's private feud with Saddam Hussein. The real reason for Jeb Bush's failure to gain any traction was his last name and the fact that his advisers were the same men who advised his brother. Bush used 9-11 as the pretext for attacking a country and a leader who had nothing to do with 9-11. Even Colin Powell was intentionally given misinformation which he unknowingly fed to the public. What was Hillary Clinton's part in all of this? After being lied to by Bush and his cronies, she voted to support a war to stop Hussein from developing a nuclear weapon, a nuclear weapon that existed only in the minds of Bush's neo-cons.

Had Hillary been told the truth, I doubt she would have voted to support Bush's War and her supporters know this and do not hold it against her. Hard as they might try to distance themselves from the mess in Iraq, the Republicans own that war and the disintegration that followed the collapse of Hussein's iron-fisted reign. Hussein was a ruthless dictator, but he was exactly what that country needed at that time in its history. History is repeating itself now in Syria. Assad is just as ruthless as Hussein had been, but forcefully removing him would create another vacuum for the likes of Isis.
 
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GoIrish41

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Safe to say that most HRC supporters are ignorant to these other areas of concern. Look it up. There are numerous videos of street interviews during exit polls where HRC voters literally had no idea she voted for the Iraq war, among other things. There are also a lot of her supporters who do so simply based on the fact that she's a woman. Independent polling (that I've seen) is showing that HRC does not have their majority support. I've seen polls where 80% of 20,000+ people said they were NeverHillary. So while I somewhat agree that her supporters "don't care," I think it goes further than that.





Trump's rise is because he was anti-PC, not despite it. Trump has a massive following because "He says what everyone's thinking but are just too afraid to say themselves."

I find it ironic that you point a finger at the Left when blaming extremism within parties, yet your party nominated the most extreme nationalist/populist candidate in history. And if it wasn't for the fact that he was running against Hillary-fucking-Clinton, he would get absolutely destroyed in the general election. Hell, people hate HRC and Trump still might get destroyed.

Here's the thing ... the GOP has nobody to blame but themselves. They force their candidates to unelectable positions in the primaries that Democrats use to beat them over the head with during the general election cycle.

The prosperous years of Bill Clinton were followed by the chaotic years of W., who not only invaded a Iraq for no legitimate reason following 911, but then he inserted Paul Bremer as the Presidential Envoy there -- a man who had never been to the Middle East, Didn't speak Arabic, and was utterly ill qualified to lead the effort. He quickly dismantled the government and left all the human services -- water, trash collection, electricity, etc. -- unattended. He sent the Iraqi army packing, instead of using them as a security force to keep the peace. The result was a total clusterfuck, and a population full of unemployed, militarily trained men to fend for themselves among the other disrupted population in a country with no plan after the war. These Iraqi soldiers became the core of what is ISIS today, armed with the weapons they took with them and all the proof they needed about how the United States jacked up their country. Any mistake Hillary may or may not have made during her political career pales in comparrison to W.'s collosal fuckups. This is the foreign policy track record the republicans had the last time they were entrusted with the presidency. On top of that, the economy tanked on W.'s watch in incredible fashion. Republicans don't have a track record of success at home anymore than they do overseas.

After W. they ran warmonger McCain who wanted to double down on these problems created under Bush. To make matters worse, he chose as his running mate the world's stupidest woman. Next, they put up moderate Romney who alienated half of the country with one idiotic statement (47%) trying to appeal to Republican doners, who were coincidently profiting off of the chaos that Bush created at the expense of American citizens. He said half of the country wanted noting more than to suck off the government teet. Moronic!

The Republican reasoning behind their failure to secure the White House? McCain and Romney were pussies -- too weak and not "conservative enough" to take the country by the scruff of the neck and bend them to the will of their party. And even though their own "autopsy" following the Romney defeat concluded that they needed to widen their tent, appeal to minorities and women instead of their ham fisted approach that cost them the previous two elections, they inexplicably chose the worst, most bigoted, moronic candidate in my lifetime to run in 2016 (a candidate that most of them even hate) against the most plugged in political figure in modern history. He single handedly exposed the GOP as full of shit on their "conservative principles" that were the fulcrum on which their political power had always pivoted, or so the story goes.

HRC might be hated, but when they chose someone who is hated even more ... a guy who obviously is just making shit up as he goes along and appealing to the worst qualities of our population, WTF does anyone expect? He's going to lose in a landslide in this election. The question is, what will the republican excuse be this time? "Too conservative" is out the window. For christsakes, he just gave a speech yesterday that was to the left of Hillary on trade -- the one issue in which she has been traditionally in line with the republicans on.

Instead of accepting the reality that the country has been shifting to the left for nearly 3 decades, republicans ignore the obvious and double down on policies that continue to alienate and villify victims of the policies that were put into place during the "Reagan revolution" in the early 1980s -- reduced taxes for the rich, stagnant wages for the working class, military build-up, gutting regulation, etc., etc., etc.

I share your dislike of Hillary ... a whole lot of Dems and Independents do, too ... but the Republicans have given America no choice but to vote for her because they are too dumb to get out of their own way and choose a candidate who might have appeal to people in a country that has been turning away from their ideas for the better part of three decades. People might be "ignorant" of the ins and outs of policy discussions or the workings of government, but they have a profound understanding of how their lives are going. They listen to candidates to find out which direction they want to go to improve their chances of a better life. At the end of the day, the person who talks the loudest isn't the one who people listen to ... its the one who offers a coherent direction that they can get behind. Like her or hate her, HRC has a coherent plan, and that will lead her to victory in November.
 
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BleedBlueGold

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Hillary has her issues and she's far from a perfect candidate, but I don't get using her vote for the Iraq War against her. That war was Bush's war, not Hillary's. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush and the others intentionally misled both the public and Congress to gain national support for Bush's private feud with Saddam Hussein. The real reason for Jeb Bush's failure to gain any traction was his last name and the fact that his advisers were the same men who advised his brother. Bush used 9-11 as the pretext for attacking a country and a leader who had nothing to do with 9-11. Even Colin Powell was intentionally given misinformation which he unknowingly fed to the public. What was Hillary Clinton's part in all of this? After being lied to by Bush and his cronies, she voted to support a war to stop Hussein from developing a nuclear weapon, a nuclear weapon that existed only in the minds of Bush's neo-cons.

Had Hillary been told the truth, I doubt she would have voted to support Bush's War and her supporters know this and do not hold it against her. Hard as they might try to distance themselves from the mess in Iraq, the Republicans own that war and the disintegration that followed the collapse of Hussein's iron-fisted reign. Hussein was a ruthless dictator, but he was exactly what that country needed at that time in its history. History is repeating itself now in Syria. Assad is just as ruthless as Hussein had been, but forcefully removing him would create another vacuum for the likes of Isis.

It was literally just an example of her voting base not knowing the truth about the candidate they just voted for.

Conversation went something like this:

Interviewer: Who did you just vote for?
Voter: Hillary.
Interviewer: So you're pro war?
Voter: Absolutely not.
Interviewer: ????
Interviewer: Hillary has voted pro-invasion in all recent war voting.
Voter: {shocked, and suddenly second guesses the candidate she just voted for, admits she voted for her just because she's a woman, and doesn't know where she stands on most policy issues.}
 
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IrishJayhawk

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It was literally just an example of her voting base not knowing the truth about the candidate they just voted for.

Conversation went something like this:

Interviewer: Who did you just vote for?
Voter: Hillary.
Interviewer: So you're pro war?
Voter: Absolutely not.
Interviewer: ????
Interviewer: Hillary has voted pro-invasion in all recent war voting.
Voter: {shocked, and suddenly second guesses the candidate she just voted for, admits she voted for her just because she's a woman, and doesn't know where she stands on most policy issues.}

And I can appreciate your point of view. But a few (or even several) anecdotes don't mean that most Clinton voters are ignorant about her.
 

TomHaverford

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feel like damned if you do, damned if you don't. Two shitty choices. Trump or Hilary. It's just too bad someone that is honest, decent, and moral like Bernie couldn't win the Dem nomination.

Man I really loathe both of them. Gun to my head, probably pick Hilary. Just for the simple reason she'd attempt to do something about climate change. Trump doesn't even believe climate change exists. He's perfectly fine with destroying the environment.

But at the same time Hilary is a fucking lying hack and a war hawk to boot. She's a Wall Street establishment candidate that's already been bought and paid for. Her and her husband are a pair of filthy, disgusting , crooks.

Honestly, they both suck.
 

TomHaverford

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Here's the thing ... the GOP has nobody to blame but themselves. They force their candidates to unelectable positions in the primaries that Democrats use to beat them over the head with during the general election cycle.

The prosperous years of Bill Clinton were followed by the chaotic years of W., who not only invaded a Iraq for no legitimate reason following 911, but then he inserted Paul Bremer as the Presidential Envoy there -- a man who had never been to the Middle East, Didn't speak Arabic, and was utterly ill qualified to lead the effort. He quickly dismantled the government and left all the human services -- water, trash collection, electricity, etc. -- unattended. He sent the Iraqi army packing, instead of using them as a security force to keep the peace. The result was a total clusterfuck, and a population full of unemployed, militarily trained men to fend for themselves among the other disrupted population in a country with no plan after the war. These Iraqi soldiers became the core of what is ISIS today, armed with the weapons they took with them and all the proof they needed about how the United States jacked up their country. Any mistake Hillary may or may not have made during her political career pales in comparrison to W.'s collosal fuckups. This is the foreign policy track record the republicans had the last time they were entrusted with the presidency. On top of that, the economy tanked on W.'s watch in incredible fashion. Republicans don't have a track record of success at home anymore than they do overseas.

After W. they ran warmonger McCain who wanted to double down on these problems created under Bush. To make matters worse, he chose as his running mate the world's stupidest woman. Next, they put up moderate Romney who alienated half of the country with one idiotic statement (47%) trying to appeal to Republican doners, who were coincidently profiting off of the chaos that Bush created at the expense of American citizens. He said half of the country wanted noting more than to suck off the government teet. Moronic!

The Republican reasoning behind their failure to secure the White House? McCain and Romney were pussies -- too weak and not "conservative enough" to take the country by the scruff of the neck and bend them to the will of their party. And even though their own "autopsy" following the Romney defeat concluded that they needed to widen their tent, appeal to minorities and women instead of their ham fisted approach that cost them the previous two elections, they inexplicably chose the worst, most bigoted, moronic candidate in my lifetime to run in 2016 (a candidate that most of them even hate) against the most plugged in political figure in modern history. He single handedly exposed the GOP as full of shit on their "conservative principles" that were the folcrum on which their political power had always pivoted, or so the story goes.

HRC might be hated, but when they chose someone who is hated even more ... a guy who obviously is just making shit up as he goes along and appealing to the worst qualities of our population, WTF does anyone expect? He's going to lose in a landslide in this election. The question is, what will the republican excuse be this time? "Too conservative" is out the window. For christsakes, he just gave a speech yesterday that was to the left of Hillary on trade -- the one issue in which she has been traditionally in line with the republicans on.

Instead of accepting the reality that the country has been shifting to the left for nearly 3 decades, republicans ignore the obvious and double down on policies that continue to alienate and villify victims of the policies that were put into place during the "Reagan revolution" in the early 1980s -- reduced taxes for the rich, stagnant wages for the working class, military build-up, gutting regulation, etc., etc., etc.

I share your dislike of Hillary ... a whole lot of Dems and Independents do, too ... but the Republicans have given America no choice but to vote for her because they are too dumb to get out of their own way and choose a candidate who might have appeal to people in a country that has been turning away from their ideas for the better part of three decades. People might be "ignorant" of the ins and outs of policy discussions or the workings of government, but they have a profound understanding of how their lives are going. They listen to candidates to find out which direction they want to go to improve their chances of a better life. At the end of the day, the person who talks the loudest isn't the one who people listen to ... its the one who offers a coherent direction that they can get behind. Like her or hate her, HRC has a coherent plan, and that will lead her to victory in November.

damn. you totally nailed it.

I voted for Obama over McCain the first time around simply because McCain's crazy ass kept saying things like we need to send 100,000 more to Iraq and be there for another 50 years! Then he picked that bimbo to be his running mate and the idea of his old ass dying and leaving her in charge of the free world just sealed the deal to vote for BO in '08.

I used to like McCain. Dude just completely sold out and went off his rocker.
 

wizards8507

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It's just too bad someone that is honest, decent, and moral like Bernie couldn't win the Dem nomination.
Decent and moral? Communism is the single most evil political structure ever devised by man. Mao killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. And make no mistake, Bernie is a communist. He says "Democratic socialist" because it sounds more palatable to the American voter, but he's not a "decent and moral" man.
 

yankeehater

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And I can appreciate your point of view. But a few (or even several) anecdotes don't mean that most Clinton voters are ignorant about her.

That scares me even more. They are not ignorant about her yet plan to vote for her still. A friend of mine who was a staunch Sanders supporter and said more negative things about Clinton than anyone with an "R" by their name told me she plans to vote for Hillary. I asked why and she sent me an article someone wrote justifying Hillary and her lying citing other candidates/politicians lie more. Forgot who they used as comparisons maybe Bill.

I asked is this where we are as a Country. If so, we are more f'd than I even imagined. I am older than most on this board so I have seen a lot. Am I the brightest, not by a long shot. I, however, cannot recall a time when we have been so divided and heading in such a downward trend. We live in groups, "R" or "D", racial divides - white, black, brown, orange, or purple. People are suffering more than ever as costs go up and the median household income remains stagnant. But until we hold our politicians to a higher standard, heck, just do what we elect you to do, we will continue to suffer the consequences.
 
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