Keith Arnold on the burden of being a white DE from New Jersey

[dshans]

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x3m5l8" allowfullscreen></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3m5l8_you-can-t-hit-albert-finney_shortfilms" target="_blank">You Can't Hit Albert Finney!</a> <i>by <a> href="http://www.dailymotion.com/cliporama2" target="_blank">cliporama2</a></i>

Is this a Josh Shaw reenactment?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Nope click the link. Shows a gramophone, with Danny boy playing. Albert Finney smoking a cigar. Tommy Gun shoot out a bonus extra. Don't understand the tech problem, sorry.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Italian guys arent considered white up here in the Northeast!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Yeah I was a white DL/TE from Rhode Island and my lack of recruitment probably had something to do with being 5'11" and 180 lbs with zero discernible upper body strength. I was an all-state volleyball player though, so suck on that big time college football!

How many other players does one have to beat out in order to become "all-state" in Rhode Island? 5? 20? Genuinely curious here.

 

[woolybug25]

How many other players does one have to beat out in order to become "all-state" in Rhode Island? 5? 20? Genuinely curious here.

Haha... especially in volleyball.

Do men's volleyball players wear volleyball shorts?

 

[irishfan]

Not the point how many...

Once ONE does it, in this case two... and are the best at it for an extended amount of time why would you question if another could?

Do you question if a another white kid will ever sell 50 million rap albums again? Or if another black guy will win a PGA golf tournament.... or for that matter black man becomes President again? No. They will all happen and to mention if any single person has the ability because of their skin color or where they are from is not needed.... especially when its already been done at the highest level.

.

Sry, just saw this today.

I'm not questioning that it can be done. Hence my examples. Clearly you can be a white DE and be successful in college or NFL. Just saying the statistics say that the best DEs are black, not white. When less than 20% of all starting DEs in the NFL are white, your going to have prove yourself as a white true frosh starting DE more so than a black one IMO.

Hell, if Trumbetti were a black frosh kicker starting for us, the concerns would be the same.

 

[BobbyMac]

Sry, just saw this today.

I'm not questioning that it can be done. Hence my examples. Clearly you can be a white DE and be successful in college or NFL. Just saying the statistics say that the best DEs are black, not white. When less than 20% of all starting DEs in the NFL are white, your going to have prove yourself as a white true frosh starting DE more so than a black one IMO.

Hell, if Trumbetti were a black frosh kicker starting for us, the concerns would be the same.

I know where you're trying to go with this and I understand many people would agree.

But as you have it worded, you're wrong. The best DE in the world is white. The best DE over the past decade is white. I agree without numbers to back it up, that the majority of DE's in the NFL and top 25 college programs are black... that is meaningless in this case though.

It's been proven time and time again that white defensive ends can be DOMINANT. Look at the history of the position.... Just in my lifetime: Doug Atkins, Howie Long, Dan Hampton, Mark Gastineau, Jack Youngblood, Kevin Greene, Bryce Paup, Jared Allen, JJ Watt... These are guys who have led the League in sacks or are in the HOF. It makes no sense to even bring it up anymore. Probably hasn't made sense to do so in 30 years.

Add to that...

Trumbetti's performance in a skills challenge even on national tv. Why would the author bring this up... to satisfy the ignorance of a handful of readers?

Let's place the same burden of proof on Porter Gustin... who by all accounts is an athletic freak. Are we supposed to wonder if he can be a great LB because he's white... even when Luke Kuechly, Paul Pozluszny and Chad Greenway have been in the top 5 in tackles over the last year and Brian Urlacher at 6-4, 260lbs is the best LB in history against both the run and the pass.

???

 

[Wild Bill]

Sry, just saw this today.

I'm not questioning that it can be done. Hence my examples. Clearly you can be a white DE and be successful in college or NFL. Just saying the statistics say that the best DEs are black, not white. When less than 20% of all starting DEs in the NFL are white, your going to have prove yourself as a white true frosh starting DE more so than a black one IMO.

Hell, if Trumbetti were a black frosh kicker starting for us, the concerns would be the same.

Unless he was Reggie Roby's son.

 

[irishfan]

I know where you're trying to go with this and I understand many people would agree.

But as you have it worded, you're wrong. The best DE in the world is white. The best DE over the past decade is white. I agree without numbers to back it up, that the majority of DE's in the NFL and top 25 college programs are black... that is meaningless in this case though.

It's been proven time and time again that white defensive ends can be DOMINANT. Look at the history of the position.... Just in my lifetime: Doug Atkins, Howie Long, Dan Hampton, Mark Gastineau, Jack Youngblood, Kevin Greene, Bryce Paup, Jared Allen, JJ Watt... These are guys who have led the League in sacks or are in the HOF. It makes no sense to even bring it up anymore. Probably hasn't made sense to do so in 30 years.

Add to that...

Trumbetti's performance in a skills challenge even on national tv. Why would the author bring this up... to satisfy the ignorance of a handful of readers?

Let's place the same burden of proof on Porter Gustin... who by all accounts is an athletic freak. Are we supposed to wonder if he can be a great LB because he's white... even when Luke Kuechly, Paul Pozluszny and Chad Greenway have been in the top 5 in tackles over the last year and Brian Urlacher at 6-4, 260lbs is the best LB in history against both the run and the pass.

???

I definitely understand your point. There have been very good DEs throughout football's history. I think along with being a white DE, Keith Arnold was also saying he has something to prove being from NJ. Jersey has some great HS football, but I don't think Arnold would have brought this up if he was a white DE who was dominating at a high level in TX or CA or FL.

Was your issue with Keith saying this in regards to him being a white DE? Would you have had the same issue if Trumbetti was a white RB and Keith Arnold made a reference to him having to prove himself as a white RB?

I'm just curious if your issue was with the DE part, or the "white" part? Because I think a bias towards a white RB or white CB or a black Kicker is perfectly understandable.

 

[BobbyMac]

I definitely understand your point. There have been very good DEs throughout football's history. I think along with being a white DE, Keith Arnold was also saying he has something to prove being from NJ. Jersey has some great HS football, but I don't think Arnold would have brought this up if he was a white DE who was dominating at a high level in TX or CA or FL.

Was your issue with Keith saying this in regards to him being a white DE? Would you have had the same issue if Trumbetti was a white RB and Keith Arnold made a reference to him having to prove himself as a white RB?

I'm just curious if your issue was with the DE part, or the "white" part? Because I think a bias towards a white RB or white CB or a black Kicker is perfectly understandable.

Great questions.

I had responded to the first thing regarding geography earlier and both Watt and Allen are from non traditional football regions... Wisconsin and Idaho. So being a white kid from Jersey should be less news worthy than being a white guy from Idaho... who has been the best at the position for the last ten years.

Is it about him being white? No. It's about him being questioned for being white at his position AND his state. Watt and Allen fit the bill even more so than Trumbetti.

It's like someone from Rolling Stone writing that a white rapper from Detroit might have to overcome some questions about his race and where he's from... to prove himself... even though Kid Rock and Eminem have sold 100+ Million albums.


Lastly, would I have a bias towards white cb's or rb's... or a black kicker?... I will say it would make me look at it twice.

It would get my attention if a white CB was to be a top high school recruit, so much so that I would write about that. If Jabril Peppers was white, I would have written what Mr. Arnold did without the geography needed ... RB, not so much. There are guys who have done it at the pro level in my lifetime... shouldn't surprise me for a high school kid going into college. I never thought twice about Cam McD after I saw his film and his stats.

A black kicker...

Wouldn't surprise me if he was originally from a soccer country and learned to play football like Donald Ikewebuekwe(?) Wouldn't have surprised me if Shane Walton would have been a kicker coming from the soccer team

Would I be surprised if the imaginary Shaq Williams from the Bronx was signed as a kicker.

Absolutely. That would be worthy of mention in a story.

Thoughts?

 

[irishfan]

Great questions.

I had responded to the first thing regarding geography earlier and both Watt and Allen are from non traditional football regions... Wisconsin and Idaho. So being a white kid from Jersey should be less news worthy than being a white guy from Idaho... who has been the best at the position for the last ten years.

Is it about him being white? No. It's about him being questioned for being white at his position AND his state. Watt and Allen fit the bill even more so than Trumbetti.

It's like someone from Rolling Stone writing that a white rapper from Detroit might have to overcome some questions about his race and where he's from... to prove himself... even though Kid Rock and Eminem have sold 100+ Million albums.


Lastly, would I have a bias towards white cb's or rb's... or a black kicker?... I will say it would make me look at it twice.

It would get my attention if a white CB was to be a top high school recruit, so much so that I would write about that. If Jabril Peppers was white, I would have written what Mr. Arnold did without the geography needed ... RB, not so much. There are guys who have done it at the pro level in my lifetime... shouldn't surprise me for a high school kid going into college. I never thought twice about Cam McD after I saw his film and his stats.

A black kicker...

Wouldn't surprise me if he was originally from a soccer country and learned to play football like Donald Ikewebuekwe(?) Wouldn't have surprised me if Shane Walton would have been a kicker coming from the soccer team

Would I be surprised if the imaginary Shaq Williams from the Bronx was signed as a kicker.

Absolutely. That would be worthy of mention in a story.

Thoughts?

I appreciate the responses. Was just trying to gauge whether it was a race or position thing for you. I agree with what Arnold was saying due to Trumbetti being a true freshman and having a lot to prove. I don't think he makes the same comment if Trumbetti is a sophomore. Springmann was one of our best reserves on the DL as a RS Frosh and no one batted an eye.

I think Arnold was just saying he's got a lot to prove out there being a 1) True Frosh 2) not from an elite HS state 3) white. He just didn't put them in that order in his phrasing. Appreciate the responses though.

 

[absoluteirish59]

I live a few miles from his high school. I took my son to a couple of their Friday night games and he is absolutely unblockable!
Black or white should never be talked about up front or behind the curtain. I hope he gets a few snaps this year.