2016 Presidential Horse Race

[phgreek]

‘You’ve got to be kidding': Hillary answers Ed Henry with ‘a giant F you’ [video] | Twitchy

I laughed...she isn't going to talk at all until she absolutely has to...She literally can only hurt herself. But if her calculus is right, and Clinton Calculus almost always is, She'll waltz into the white house saying almost nothing, without a distinguished record at ANYTHING (Seems a theme). Her debates will largely be orchestrated, and when she gets in trouble, there is always Candy Crowley. So why talk now? She has demonstrated with near certainty, when she tries to have a serious impromptu conversation with people who are informed, her Jimmy Choo fits nicely in her pie hole. There is literally no benefit and all risk for her doing anything beyond talking to orchestrated groups, and riding around doing the parade wave...her startegy depends on the fact that uninformed votes count...yes cynical...but likely true, and a winner.

 

[wizards8507]

I laughed...she isn't going to talk at all until she absolutely has to...She literally can only hurt herself. But if her calculus is right, and Clinton Calculus almost always is, She'll waltz into the white house saying almost nothing, without a distinguished record at ANYTHING (Seems a theme). Her debates will largely be orchestrated, and when she gets in trouble, there is always Candy Crowley. So why talk now? She has demonstrated with near certainty, when she tries to have a serious impromptu conversation with people who are informed, her Jimmy Choo fits nicely in her pie hole. There is literally no benefit and all risk for her doing anything beyond talking to orchestrated groups, and riding around doing the parade wave...her startegy depends on the fact that uninformed votes count...yes cynical...but likely true, and a winner.

All true, but uninformed votes only count if they actually vote. Obama was able to get his base excited. Hillary doesn't have that kind of pull among young people or minorities, two blocs that need to show up if she's going to win. There's a reason Republicans generally do so well in midterm elections. The democrats needs charisma at the top of the ticket to bring out their base.

 

[connor_in]

All true, but uninformed votes only count if they actually vote. Obama was able to get his base excited. Hillary doesn't have that kind of pull among young people or minorities, two blocs that need to show up if she's going to win. There's a reason Republicans generally do so well in midterm elections. The democrats needs charisma at the top of the ticket to bring out their base.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/C0SnIgOwZ3A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[connor_in]

The Worst Day of Hillary Clinton's Campaign | The Weekly Standard

 

[connor_in]

 

[wizards8507]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/C0SnIgOwZ3A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The one woman in the camo top and white cover-up looks like Cee Lo Green.

 

[ACamp1900]

That WAS Cee Lo Green... wasn't it??........

 

[pkt77242]

Bernie Sanders issues bill to make 4-year colleges tuition-free | USA TODAY College

 

[ACamp1900]

Working in higher ed. I def feel SOMETHING needs to be done. What about all the current debt already taken on??

 

[pkt77242]

Working in higher ed. I def feel SOMETHING needs to be done. What about all the current debt already taken on??

Part of the plan would allow people who have student debt to refinance it at a significantly lower rate (2.32% I think).

 

[pkt77242]

Can you imagine a Bernie Sanders vs. Ted Cruz general election?
Do the moderates just not vote?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Bernie Sanders issues bill to make 4-year colleges tuition-free | USA TODAY College

This is the funniest thing I've seen in a while. We are $18 trillion in debt and we're going to add another $47 billion tab annually?! Between this and obamacare we will look like Greece before I hit the age of 40.

 

[woolybug25]

Working in higher ed. I def feel SOMETHING needs to be done. What about all the current debt already taken on??

My problem with the rising costs of higher education is that people just want to keep throwing money at it. Instead of addressing the real issue of us pushing every kid into higher education simply because "it's the right thing to do" instead of offering assistance in getting them employment skills. Kids are leaving college at alarming rates without actually going into a chosen field.

As a banker, I can attest that the most difficult issue facing small to medium business in my area is finding qualified employees. Meanwhile, we have a 7.1% unemployment rate with significantly rising costs in higher education. Am I taking crazy pills or are people simply acquiring massive debt in order to obtain the wrong kind of education?

That's why I hated the legislation offering two free years of community college. Depending on who you ask (feds vs AACC) the rate of graduation of community college students is somewhere between 18-40%. But most end up leaving with student loan debt.

Schools are ran like businesses, so we should treat them as such. If we are concerned with kids not getting good educations, creating too much debt and competing with international workforces. Then we should address the demand curve for their services, not just making it easier for more students (customers) to dilute the product and create higher demand (costs).

 

[Irish YJ]

My problem with the rising costs of higher education is that people just want to keep throwing money at it. Instead of addressing the real issue of us pushing every kid into higher education simply because "it's the right thing to do" instead of offering assistance in getting them employment skills. Kids are leaving college at alarming rates without actually going into a chosen field.

As a banker, I can attest that the most difficult issue facing small to medium business in my area is finding qualified employees. Meanwhile, we have a 7.1% unemployment rate with significantly rising costs in higher education. Am I taking crazy pills or are people simply acquiring massive debt in order to obtain the wrong kind of education?

That's why I hated the legislation offering two free years of community college. Depending on who you ask (feds vs AACC) the rate of graduation of community college students is somewhere between 18-40%. But most end up leaving with student loan debt.

Schools are ran like businesses, so we should treat them as such. If we are concerned with kids not getting good educations, creating too much debt and competing with international workforces. Then we should address the demand curve for their services, not just making it easier for more students (customers) to dilute the product and create higher demand (costs).

I think that some type of hire education should be free to all. Bratislava has it, and kids are rolling in and out. Good stuff, and smart kids. Opened up a product team over there in the mid 2000s. HP, AT&T, and many other big guys are over there taking advantage of the cost points. Labor is not as cheap there as it used to be, but definitely a place where state funded education is working.

I like GA's Hope Scholarship. I was surprised to hear about the competition getting into UGA... Probably doesn't go far enough though. I'm void of facts in this space but I believe the lottery funds it.

 

[pkt77242]

This is the funniest thing I've seen in a while. We are $18 trillion in debt and we're going to add another $47 billion tab annually?! Between this and obamacare we will look like Greece before I hit the age of 40.

Did you read the whole article? He wants to pay for it by raising taxes not by increasing the debt.

The bill plans to cover these costs by initiating a Robin Hood Tax on Wall Street. A .5% speculation fee will be charged on investment houses, hedge funds, and other stock trades. Additionally, a .1% fee will be charged on bonds, and a .005% fee will be charged on derivatives.

 

[Irish YJ]

Did you read the whole article? He wants to pay for it by raising taxes not by increasing the debt.

Of course he did.

 

[Wild Bill]

Did you read the whole article? He wants to pay for it by raising taxes not by increasing the debt.

Even if the so called Robin Hood taxes pay a portion of the bill, it's reasonable to assume we'll go into debt funding and the plan (the feds have proven over and over they can't be trusted to manage a budget) and the article is silent with respect to the state's 33% portion of the tab.

I think it's safe to assume the middle and upper class tax payers in each state will be picking up the tab on their state's portion and that's a tough sale for even the most skilled politician. Should our working class, i.e., tradesman, truck drivers, mill workers etc. be taxed to provide someone else an education? I don't see how they escape the taxes that the state would have to impose on it's citizens to pay their portion. I'm not a blue collar worker and I find it offensive that a plumber, for instance, has to battle through shit, literally shit, so I can go to class, chase some tail and drink for four years. I think we'd get some serious kick back on this from unions and labor groups.

I think Wooly brings up a good point too:

My problem with the rising costs of higher education is that people just want to keep throwing money at it. Instead of addressing the real issue of us pushing every kid into higher education simply because "it's the right thing to do" instead of offering assistance in getting them employment skills. Kids are leaving college at alarming rates without actually going into a chosen field......

As a policy, do we really want to continue pushing kids into colleges where they may not belong, and doing so at the expense of the middle class uneducated tax payers (assuming they'd have to pay the state's portion)?

I do agree with interest rate caps. The risk is minimal - you can't discharge the debts in a bankruptcy. You can die or simply not work. Given that most of the people carrying student loan debt are young, I doubt they die or choose a life of not working simply to avoid paying loans back. These rates should be next to nothing.

I was offered financing for a truck about a year ago - $0 down and 0% interest over 72 months. I pay a 5.25% fixed rate on a federal student loan. So the debt tied to the rapidly depreciating asset that can be discharged in a bankruptcy is 0% and the debt that's harder to get rid of than a case of herpes I'm paying 5.25%. Makes sense.

 

[wizards8507]

My problem with the rising costs of higher education is that people just want to keep throwing money at it. Instead of addressing the real issue of us pushing every kid into higher education simply because "it's the right thing to do" instead of offering assistance in getting them employment skills. Kids are leaving college at alarming rates without actually going into a chosen field.

As a banker, I can attest that the most difficult issue facing small to medium business in my area is finding qualified employees. Meanwhile, we have a 7.1% unemployment rate with significantly rising costs in higher education. Am I taking crazy pills or are people simply acquiring massive debt in order to obtain the wrong kind of education?

That's why I hated the legislation offering two free years of community college. Depending on who you ask (feds vs AACC) the rate of graduation of community college students is somewhere between 18-40%. But most end up leaving with student loan debt.

Schools are ran like businesses, so we should treat them as such. If we are concerned with kids not getting good educations, creating too much debt and competing with international workforces. Then we should address the demand curve for their services, not just making it easier for more students (customers) to dilute the product and create higher demand (costs).

This x1000.

Student loans actually make the problem worse because they artificially inflate the demand for higher education. Schools don't have to compete on price because idiot kids and their idiot parents view the loans as "free money."

Full disclosure: I graduated with $25,000 in federal loans and immediately leased a 2012 vehicle and financed another before I saw the light and became an anti-debt crusader.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

This x1000.

Student loans actually make the problem worse because they artificially inflate the demand for higher education. Schools don't have to compete on price because idiot kids and their idiot parents view the loans as "free money."

Full disclosure: I graduated with $25,000 in federal loans and immediately leased a 2012 vehicle and financed another before I saw the light and became an anti-debt crusader.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

Just to clarify, you are admitting to being an idiot, correct?

 

[pkt77242]

Even if the so called Robin Hood taxes pay a portion of the bill, it's reasonable to assume we'll go into debt funding and the plan (the feds have proven over and over they can't be trusted to manage a budget) and the article is silent with respect to the state's 33% portion of the tab.

I think it's safe to assume the middle and upper class tax payers in each state will be picking up the tab on their state's portion and that's a tough sale for even the most skilled politician. Should our working class, i.e., tradesman, truck drivers, mill workers etc. be taxed to provide someone else an education? I don't see how they escape the taxes that the state would have to impose on it's citizens to pay their portion. I'm not a blue collar worker and I find it offensive that a plumber, for instance, has to battle through shit, literally shit, so I can go to class, chase some tail and drink for four years. I think we'd get some serious kick back on this from unions and labor groups.

I think Wooly brings up a good point too:



As a policy, do we really want to continue pushing kids into colleges where they may not belong, and doing so at the expense of the middle class uneducated tax payers (assuming they'd have to pay the state's portion)?

I do agree with interest rate caps. The risk is minimal - you can't discharge the debts in a bankruptcy. You can die or simply not work. Given that most of the people carrying student loan debt are young, I doubt they die or choose a life of not working simply to avoid paying loans back. These rates should be next to nothing.

I was offered financing for a truck about a year ago - $0 down and 0% interest over 72 months. I pay a 5.25% fixed rate on a federal student loan. So the debt tied to the rapidly depreciating asset that can be discharged in a bankruptcy is 0% and the debt that's harder to get rid of than a case of herpes I'm paying 5.25%. Makes sense.

If the numbers in the article are correct ($70 million needed for Universities, with the Federal Government's tab being $47ish million) then the tax would easily cover it from what I have read online. Now if the tax is a good idea (or if there would be a better way of paying for it) is a completely different story.

As to the state's portion you bring up a good point, but for too long states have been cutting funding to their universities which has led to ever increasing tuition. Now one thing to do is to cut down the interest rates on student loans (Part of Sanders' plan calls for lowing current student loans' interest rates). As to whether workers should be offended to cover the cost of college for students when they don't have that degree, well tough shit. Is it fair that they pay taxes for roads that they may never drive on, or for government programs that they may never use? Also you are ignoring the fact that these same workers children will benefit when they go to college. In fact that whole argument reminds me of areas that have a high proportion of retired people and how every time the schools try to raise money to get funding for their schools through things such as school bonds, the old people vote it down (Sun City retirees key in bond issue - tribunedigital-chicagotribune This article is about the problem in Chicago but same thing applies). Here is a telling quote

With 2,600 new students expected to flood Huntley School District 158 in the next three years, Supt. Steve Swanson has easily underscored the need for an $80 million bond issue on the November ballot.

But some worry that an influential voting bloc of seniors, the Sun City retirement community of nearly 3,000 residents, carries enough political weight to doom it.

"We don't put any impact on their schools. We don't put one child in there. We don't use their gymnasiums," said Sun City resident Charles Anchor. "Sun City will vote this down."

Having said that I think we do have to be careful about sending everyone to universities as well. I think some combo of raising the requirements to get into the universities (while trying to take into account socioeconomic status) and finding a way to fund trade schools as well. I believe that doing nothing will lead to a decline of the U.S. economy as students are graduating with more and more debt which leads to less purchasing of goods such as cars, homes, etc.

Edit: They aren't paying for them to party, as they are only paying for their tuition, not for their beer money.

 

[wizards8507]

Just to clarify, you are admitting to being an idiot, correct?

Reformed idiot, yep. Debt free and loving it.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

 

[Redbar]

The inflated costs of higher education has been absolutely created by the ease at which kids could access almost free money with very very easy repayment schedules. IMO there was certainly a time when the federal government needed to "prime the pump" so to speak, but that time needed to end once the tuition at these schools began to skyrocket upward. My freshman year at ND was just over 14k total, meal plans, housing, travel estimates, and laundry included, I am scared to ask what it is today. Full disclosure, I finished with about 7500 in federal loans, deferred it for a few years, before starting to pay it off.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I'd support free tuition for STEM majors and tying tuition to the actual cost of the education. That'd be a fraction of the cost for tax payers and address a real issues of global competitiveness. I don't see why tax payers should be paying for someone to get a history degree.

I think the issue he could throw money at is early childhood care. So many of our urban youth are basically toast by the time they get to 1st grade. Build a bridge.

Speaking of bridges, I'm worried Sanders' "spend a trillion on infrastructure" idea would just put us further down the path of financially unsustainable sprawl.

Presidents normally only get an issue or two per term to really make a difference. Sanders' obvious #1 is getting money out of political elections. He has my vote simply on that basis. His Democratic Socialist domestic ideas would never make it through Congress anyway.

 

[irishff1014]

I'd support free tuition for STEM majors and tying tuition to the actual cost of the education. That'd be a fraction of the cost for tax payers and address a real issues of global competitiveness. I don't see why tax payers should be paying for someone to get a history degree.

I think the issue he could throw money at is early childhood care. So many of our urban youth are basically toast by the time they get to 1st grade. Build a bridge.

Speaking of bridges, I'm worried Sanders' "spend a trillion on infrastructure" idea would just put us further down the path of financially unsustainable sprawl.

Presidents normally only get an issue or two per term to really make a difference. Sanders' obvious #1 is getting money out of political elections. He has my vote simply on that basis. His Democratic Socialist domestic ideas would never make it through Congress anyway.

I know this is no surprise but it shouldnt be on any tax payer to pay for any degree. If you want to go to college do good in the classroom and on athletics to try to get scholarships. And then student loans and work your ass off to pay them back.

 

[wizards8507]

I'd support free tuition for STEM majors and tying tuition to the actual cost of the education. That'd be a fraction of the cost for tax payers and address a real issues of global competitiveness. I don't see why tax payers should be paying for someone to get a history degree.

I think the issue he could throw money at is early childhood care. So many of our urban youth are basically toast by the time they get to 1st grade. Build a bridge.

Speaking of bridges, I'm worried Sanders' "spend a trillion on infrastructure" idea would just put us further down the path of financially unsustainable sprawl.

Presidents normally only get an issue or two per term to really make a difference. Sanders' obvious #1 is getting money out of political elections. He has my vote simply on that basis. His Democratic Socialist domestic ideas would never make it through Congress anyway.

Sanders is the GOP's best friend right now. Hillary has to either move all the way left or try and argue against him with the same arguments the Republican nominee will use.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I know this is no surprise but it shouldnt be on any tax payer to pay for any degree. If you want to go to college do good in the classroom and on athletics to try to get scholarships. And then student loans and work your ass off to pay them back.

I get that you have a worldview that government programs can't possibly be of use to us all.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Sanders is the GOP's best friend right now. Hillary has to either move all the way left or try and argue against him with the same arguments the Republican nominee will use.

I think the GOP is Sanders' best friend.

 

[ACamp1900]

Just to clarify, you are admitting to being an idiot, correct?

He has bpen about working at ESPN for years now....

 

[phgreek]

My problem with the rising costs of higher education is that people just want to keep throwing money at it. Instead of addressing the real issue of us pushing every kid into higher education simply because "it's the right thing to do" instead of offering assistance in getting them employment skills. Kids are leaving college at alarming rates without actually going into a chosen field.

As a banker, I can attest that the most difficult issue facing small to medium business in my area is finding qualified employees. Meanwhile, we have a 7.1% unemployment rate with significantly rising costs in higher education. Am I taking crazy pills or are people simply acquiring massive debt in order to obtain the wrong kind of education?

That's why I hated the legislation offering two free years of community college. Depending on who you ask (feds vs AACC) the rate of graduation of community college students is somewhere between 18-40%. But most end up leaving with student loan debt.

Schools are ran like businesses, so we should treat them as such. If we are concerned with kids not getting good educations, creating too much debt and competing with international workforces. Then we should address the demand curve for their services, not just making it easier for more students (customers) to dilute the product and create higher demand (costs).

Yup.

 

[GoIrish41]

Sanders is the GOP's best friend right now. Hillary has to either move all the way left or try and argue against him with the same arguments the Republican nominee will use.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

Why would Hillary have to do any of that if ...

I don't think Sanders is a legitimate candidate.

I like Sanders a lot, but do not think he is going to move the needle very much in the primaries. Hillary will set the tone for the Dems and right now, she appears to be running against the GOP field and seems content to watch the slew of candidates try to position themselves right of the competition. I'm no expert, but I believe the further right the GOP pack travels, the more Hillary is in a position of comfort heading into the general -- no matter the Republican nominee.