2016 Presidential Horse Race

[FightingIrishLover7]

https://youtu.be/t4ZGKI8vpcg

^What this country is doing right now.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

https://youtu.be/t4ZGKI8vpcg

^What this country is doing right now.

And the lead up is just as painful...

 

[BleedBlueGold]

It's an epic embarrassment.

 

[drayer54]

Cruz and Rubio need to take 5 paces, turn, and shoot. 1 must go. Preferably Cruz would go away.

Neither will drop out, but neither can win with the other one in the race.

 

[connor_in]

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

It's an epic embarrassment.

I don't want to come across as being pretentious, but a lot of Americans really are making an ass of themselves.

It's mind blowing that a liar, hypocrite, flip flopper like Hillary is probably going to win the Democratic nomination, while a billionaire, punch you in your face threatening bully, might win the Republican nomination.

Americans are over reacting to every little thing. Idk if it's the media's doing, but too many Americans are acting like if we don't drastically change now, the country is going to incinerate.

 

[Irish#1]

I don't want to come across as being pretentious, but a lot of Americans really are making an ass of themselves.

It's mine blowing that a liar, hypocrite, flip flopper like Hillary is probably going to win the Democratic nomination, while a billionaire, punch you in your face threatening bully, might win the Republican nomination.

Americans are over reacting to everything little thing. Idk if it's the media's doing, but too many Americans are acting like if we don't drastically change now, the country is going to incinerate.

This may be the best post in this thread.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Cruz and Rubio need to take 5 paces, turn, and shoot. 1 must go. Preferably Cruz would go away.

Neither will drop out, but neither can win with the other one in the race.

it's worth noting that Cruz and Rubio combined still lost to Trump by a few tenths of a percent.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I don't want to come across as being pretentious, but a lot of Americans really are making an ass of themselves.

It's mine blowing that a liar, hypocrite, flip flopper like Hillary is probably going to win the Democratic nomination, while a billionaire, punch you in your face threatening bully, might win the Republican nomination.

Americans are over reacting to everything little thing. Idk if it's the media's doing, but too many Americans are acting like if we don't drastically change now, the country is going to incinerate.

Low-information voters are dangerous. Unfortunately, they make up a HYUUUUGE amount of the population. As do single-issue voters. They're on both sides of the aisle too. I don't think you have to be an expert on every issue. But good grief, that ignorance has lead to HRC, Trump, Cruz, and even Carson (at one point)being on top. If the GOP was trotting out Rubio or Kasich, I can say with 100% honesty that I wouldn't be as outraged as I am right now with the current state. C'mon people. The whole world is laughing at us.

*For the record, I'm embarrassed by the support HRC is getting too. This isn't just an anti-GOP rant. Yes, there are low-info supporters in Bernie's camp too. But there are three absolutely hated candidates out there in HRC, Trump, and Cruz and for some reason they're doing the best? What gives?

 

[Cackalacky]

I don't want to come across as being pretentious, but a lot of Americans really are making an ass of themselves.

It's mine blowing that a liar, hypocrite, flip flopper like Hillary is probably going to win the Democratic nomination, while a billionaire, punch you in your face threatening bully, might win the Republican nomination.

Americans are over reacting to everything little thing. Idk if it's the media's doing, but too many Americans are acting like if we don't drastically change now, the country is going to incinerate.

The overreacting is warranted IMO because our politicians have failed us through their own nepotisim, cronyism and the rotating door between political office and corporate boardrooms for the past several decades. I just find that our pool of candidates to address the issues are pathetic and is the real issue here. The public will be forced to pick someone or have someone picked for them if they do not vote.

 

[NDVirginia19]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...marco-rubio-keeps-losing-so-did-bill-clinton/

 

[wizards8507]

it's worth noting that Cruz and Rubio combined still lost to Trump by a few tenths of a percent.

Nevada is an anomaly (I hope). There's a big ass gold building with "TRUMP" stamped on the front of it. Also, I can't imagine Trump would get many of the Kasich or Carson supporters. I still think his magic number needs to be >50% because it will eventually become a two-man race.

 

[Rack Em]

The overreacting is warranted IMO because our politicians have failed us through their own nepotisim, cronyism and the rotating door between political office and corporate boardrooms for the past several decades. I just find that our pool of candidates to address the issues are pathetic and is the real issue here. The public will be forced to pick someone or have someone picked for them if they do not vote.

Bingo. The issue then becomes who offers a change of course? Sanders is the only one that *could* dramatically change the course, but I worry, at the expense of the Constitution.

Trump = tyrant
Sanders = fiscally irresponsible and with severe economic implications
Rest = more of the same

It's disheartening that both establishments stopped working for the people and began working more for status quo. They spawned the Sanders-Trump revolution and now they're just trying to suppress it rather than acknowledge it and rechart their platforms.

 

[tussin]

The overreacting is warranted IMO because our politicians have failed us through their own nepotisim, cronyism and the rotating door between political office and corporate boardrooms for the past several decades. I just find that our pool of candidates to address the issues are pathetic and is the real issue here. The public will be forced to pick someone or have someone picked for them if they do not vote.

1. To the bolded, if all politicians act in self interest, isn't that the best argument for small government? The Democratic vision of a large federal government working tirelessly to serve the people is a pipedream IMO.

2. Regarding this election specifically, the core of the problem is the polarization of the electorate. The reason that we have embarrassing candidates running ahead is because moderate, sensible candidates have no chance of winning the primaries.

3. The entire political system needs to be reformed IMO. Stop lumping all candidates into two buckets, put a reasonable cap on political donations from both lobbies and individual donors, end gerrymandering, etc. This is all common sense shit that probably won't get done in my lifetime.

 

[EddytoNow]

The overreacting is warranted IMO because our politicians have failed us through their own nepotisim, cronyism and the rotating door between political office and corporate boardrooms for the past several decades. I just find that our pool of candidates to address the issues are pathetic and is the real issue here. The public will be forced to pick someone or have someone picked for them if they do not vote.

The above quote is a good summary of the current state of our lack of leadership. One of the best books I've read on leadership was written by Joseph Marshall, III on the qualities of leadership in traditional Lakota society. We could learn a lot from the Lakota. To paraphrase Marshall, if no one is willing to follow then you are not a leader. A leader must be willing to provide for those who are most needy. As an example, he offers the buffalo hunt. When the hunters returned from the hunt, the best cuts of meat were given to the elderly, the handicapped, and those unable to provide for themselves. If there was not enough to go around, it was the strong, healthy hunter who went without. Leaders were expected to be humble and compassionate, caring more about the welfare of others than of themselves.

I don't see any of the current crop of presidential candidates (Republican, Democrat, or otherwise) measuring up to those qualities.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't think the Trump supporters are fooled. I think they actually want a tyrant. It's right out of the Rahm Emanuel & Sheev Palpatine Manual for Aspiring Dictators, Emperors, and Autocrats. "You never let a serious crisis go to waste," Rahm said, "And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." It's the Cloward-Piven strategy of overwhelming the system so the system collapses and the Emperor is empowered to rebuild it in his image. I've posted the meme a few times so I won't do it again, but what we're seeing is exactly what happened in the Star Wars prequel trilogy. A crisis (or crises) are manufactured by the state (illegal immigration, student loans, unemployment, the Separatist Rebellion) and then the people willingly and eagerly clamor for an even more powerful state to fix it.

Did you see the Ben Domenech article I shared on the last page? The Evangelicals supporting Trump have no illusions about his lack of Christian bona fides; they've just given up trying to elect someone like them. Now they just want a secular bully who's willing to protect them. No one wins in the Culture War.

https://youtu.be/t4ZGKI8vpcg

^What this country is doing right now.

And the lead up is just as painful...

It's an epic embarrassment.

Losers. This country used to do great things, like jumping over sharks while water skiing in leather jackets. Once Trump is elected, he's going to build the biggest ramp you've ever seen, and he's going to jump over 100 sharks. It's gonna be 'uge.

I don't want to come across as being pretentious, but a lot of Americans really are making an ass of themselves.

It's mine blowing that a liar, hypocrite, flip flopper like Hillary is probably going to win the Democratic nomination, while a billionaire, punch you in your face threatening bully, might win the Republican nomination.

Americans are over reacting to everything little thing. Idk if it's the media's doing, but too many Americans are acting like if we don't drastically change now, the country is going to incinerate.

I'd be careful repeating that around other people. As Cack mentioned on the previous page, this election is about Populists v. the Establishment. Those supporting the populist candidates feel like the system is not working for people like them, and something drastic does need to change. This widespread disaffection on its own is a serious danger to our republic. Responding to it by telling them that they're "embarrassing" our country, or that things simply aren't that bad (especially if the system has worked well for you) is arrogant, unsympathetic, and will likely elicit at a crude gesture.

 

[connor_in]

Marco Rubio & Ted Cruz Ticket Could Stop Donald Trump

 

[wizards8507]

Marco Rubio & Ted Cruz Ticket Could Stop Donald Trump

Jonah has been spot-on all season.

 

[connor_in]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hillary visited the set of the tv show Scandal today... and that joke just wrote itself.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Scandal?src=hash">#Scandal</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/kerrywashington?src=hash">#kerrywashington</a> <a href="https://t.co/jL5cR65cjr">pic.twitter.com/jL5cR65cjr</a></p>— Tim Young (@TimRunsHisMouth) <a href="https://twitter.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/702240580764622849">February 23, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Cackalacky]

1. To the bolded, if all politicians act in self interest, isn't that the best argument for small government? The Democratic vision of a large federal government working tirelessly to serve the people is a pipedream IMO.

2. Regarding this election specifically, the core of the problem is the polarization of the electorate. The reason that we have embarrassing candidates running ahead is because moderate, sensible candidates have no chance of winning the primaries.

3. The entire political system needs to be reformed IMO. Stop lumping all candidates into two buckets, put a reasonable cap on political donations from both lobbies and individual donors, end gerrymandering, etc. This is all common sense shit that probably won't get done in my lifetime.

1. Politicians are not supposed to work for their own self interests. they are supposed to represent their constituents as best they can. Its not an argument against small or big government (whatever that means) but an argument against our currently extant form of American government which is a social democracy beholden to crony capitalism trending towards less freedom at the expense of multinational corporate interests.

2. What is the polarization due to though? IMO its the decades long track of ignoring the constitutes, lining pockets, failed policies that never benefit the population and failing our democracy at most every turn. The moderate politicians are the ones who are most beholden to special interests in fact. The two populist candidates (Sanders and Trump) have little to no special interest or SUPER PAC money hence their ability to wage a populist campaign and be successful at the grassroots level.

3. Certainly agree. I don't think anything changes until campaign finance reform occurs along with several other regulations governing lobbying. Though that will inevitably be argued that it violates personal freedoms to do so.

 

[wizards8507]

Did you see the Ben Domenech article I shared on the last page? The Evangelicals supporting Trump have no illusions about his lack of Christian bona fides; they've just given up trying to elect someone like them. Now they just want a secular bully who's willing to protect them. No one wins in the Culture War.

What do you expect from a bunch of damn heretics, amirite?

 

[wizards8507]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hillary visited the set of the tv show Scandal today... and that joke just wrote itself.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Scandal?src=hash">#Scandal</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/kerrywashington?src=hash">#kerrywashington</a> <a href="https://t.co/jL5cR65cjr">pic.twitter.com/jL5cR65cjr</a></p>— Tim Young (@TimRunsHisMouth) <a href="https://twitter.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/702240580764622849">February 23, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Why does Hillary Clinton dress like Kim Jong Un?

1. Politicians are not supposed to work for their own self interests. they are supposed to represent their constituents as best they can. Its not an argument against small or big government (whatever that means) but an argument against our currently extant form of American government which is a social democracy beholden to crony capitalism trending towards less freedom at the expense of multinational corporate interests.

Right. No italics.

2. What is the polarization due to though? IMO its the decades long track of ignoring the constitutes, lining pockets, failed policies that never benefit the population and failing our democracy at most every turn. The moderate politicians are the ones who are most beholden to special interests in fact. The two populist candidates (Sanders and Trump) have little to no special interest or SUPER PAC money hence their ability to wage a populist campaign and be successful at the grassroots level.

The problem is, Trump and Bernie are using legitimate grievances to justify policies that will make those grievances worse. Universal healthcare (Bernie) is a prime example. As bad as oligopolies and regional monopolies are, government-run healthcare would be an even more rotten pit of corruption and greed. Centralizing power in the hands of the federal government just exacerbates the conditions wherein the "lining of pockets and ignoring of constituents," which you rightfully condemn, breed. That same reasoning applies to almost all of Bernie's socialist policies. I have no idea what Trump actually stands for (which is worse), so it's hard to say whether it applies to his.

3. Certainly agree. I don't think anything changes until campaign finance reform occurs along with several other regulations governing lobbying.

See above. "System A" sucks. I agree with you there. Government creates new, big, more powerful "System B" to regulate the suckiness of System A. System B then becomes just as sucky, if not more so, than System A, but it has even more power and size.

Though that will inevitably be argued that it violates personal freedoms to do so.

That too.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Why does Hillary Clinton dress like Kim Jong Un?


Right. No italics.


The problem is, Trump and Bernie are using legitimate grievances to justify policies that will make those grievances worse. Universal healthcare (Bernie) is a prime example. As bad as oligopolies and regional monopolies are, government-run healthcare would be an even more rotten pit of corruption and greed. Centralizing power in the hands of the federal government just exacerbates the conditions wherein the "lining of pockets and ignoring of constituents," which you rightfully condemn, breed. That same reasoning applies to almost all of Bernie's socialist policies. I have no idea what Trump actually stands for (which is worse), so it's hard to say whether it applies to his.


See above. "System A" sucks. I agree with you there. Government creates new, big, more powerful "System B" to regulate the suckiness of System A. System B then becomes just as sucky, if not more so, than System A, but it has even more power and size.


That too.

Honestly, I think, if done right, universal Healthcare has a better chance of succeeding than $15 minimum wage. America is already losing its workforce due to high labor costs. I'm not sure how raising the minimum (that much, I'm fine with a decent increase) will alleviate that issue. I only see how it would make the issue worse. Of course it will "help" the individual in the short-term (assuming they don't lose their jobs) but it could cause some violent rippling for the economy.

 

[wizards8507]

Honestly, I think, if done right, universal Healthcare has a better chance of succeeding than $15 minimum wage. America is already losing its workforce due to high labor costs. I'm not sure how raising the minimum (that much, I'm fine with a decent increase) will alleviate that issue. I only see how it would make the issue worse. Of course it will "help" the individual in the short-term (assuming they don't lose their jobs) but it could cause some violent rippling for the economy.

A federal minimum wage makes no economic sense whatsoever. There's no legitimate way to compare the local economies of Manhattan versus Appalachia versus Seattle versus South Bend. Minimum wage is a prime example of how Federal one-size-fits-all policies are illogical. I personally hate the minimum wage on principle, but if there's going to be one, it needs to be managed at the state and local level.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I found this article interesting: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2016/02/unless-the-democrats-nominate-sanders-a-trump-nomination-means-a-trump-presidency

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Did you see the Ben Domenech article I shared on the last page? The Evangelicals supporting Trump have no illusions about his lack of Christian bona fides; they've just given up trying to elect someone like them. Now they just want a secular bully who's willing to protect them. No one wins in the Culture War.







Losers. This country used to do great things, like jumping over sharks while water skiing in leather jackets. Once Trump is elected, he's going to build the biggest ramp you've ever seen, and he's going to jump over 100 sharks. It's gonna be 'uge.



I'd be careful repeating that around other people. As Cack mentioned on the previous page, this election is about Populists v. the Establishment. Those supporting the populist candidates feel like the system is not working for people like them, and something drastic does need to change. This widespread disaffection on its own is a serious danger to our republic. Responding to it by telling them that they're "embarrassing" our country, or that things simply aren't that bad (especially if the system has worked well for you) is arrogant, unsympathetic, and will likely elicit at a crude gesture.

I'm in support of the populist. The system is broken down. Change does need to happen.

But, I just want to do it in a calm, rational matter. This overreacting, "must fix now" mindset is potentially dangerous. That's all I'm advocating for. People need to do their research, remain calm with their frustrations, and not rush into a dramatic/volatile shift. If they really think. America is that bad, just wait until Trump pulls a Hitler or Saunders pulls a French Revolution. (obviously neither is that extreme, just alluding to extremism).

 

[connor_in]

Why does Hillary Clinton dress like Kim Jong Un?


Right. No italics.


The problem is, Trump and Bernie are using legitimate grievances to justify policies that will make those grievances worse. Universal healthcare (Bernie) is a prime example. As bad as oligopolies and regional monopolies are, government-run healthcare would be an even more rotten pit of corruption and greed. Centralizing power in the hands of the federal government just exacerbates the conditions wherein the "lining of pockets and ignoring of constituents," which you rightfully condemn, breed. That same reasoning applies to almost all of Bernie's socialist policies. I have no idea what Trump actually stands for (which is worse), so it's hard to say whether it applies to his.


See above. "System A" sucks. I agree with you there. Government creates new, big, more powerful "System B" to regulate the suckiness of System A. System B then becomes just as sucky, if not more so, than System A, but it has even more power and size.


That too.

Would you quit getting so !@#$% technical!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm in support of the populist. The system is broken down. Change does need to happen.

But, I just want to do it in a calm, rational matter. This overreacting, "must fix now" mindset is potentially dangerous. That's all I'm advocating for. People need to do their research, remain calm with their frustrations, and not rush into a dramatic/volatile shift. If they really think. America is that bad, just wait until Trump pulls a Hitler or Saunders pulls a French Revolution. (obviously neither is that extreme, just alluding to extremism).

We need a party that is capable of actually representing the interests of poor and working-class whites, instead of just pandering to them in primaries before serving the needs of the donor class. "Calm down, bro; you're full on mad" is not a strategy for diffusing Trump's coalition.

In related news, it must be a cold day in hell, because Tom Nichols just argued in The Federalist that conservatives should support Hillary over Trump.

 

[zelezo vlk]

We need a party that is capable of actually representing the interests of poor and working-class whites, instead of just pandering to them in primaries before serving the needs of the donor class. "Calm down, bro; you're full on mad" is not a strategy for diffusing Trump's coalition.

In related news, it must be a cold day in hell, because Tom Nichols just argued in The Federalist that conservatives should support Hillary over Trump.

If you start the party, I'll be the first member.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[connor_in]

The End Times are here!

SMOD 2016