2014 Spring Practice Thread

[TheRealLynch51]

Ian Williams is a NT, even if a smaller one. He was never anything special at getting penetration in the backfield.

He's a 4-3 defensive tackle and a 3-4 nose tackle. Ian Williams also was more effective statistically in two separate seasons than Nix was last year. Also had a pick if I remember correctly.

 

[ulukinatme]

Rochell is listed at 287, which for reference is the exact same listed weight as Julius Peppers. He'd be a very good strongside DE who could bump inside on passing downs. Ishaq and Okwara can both play DE on either side, and Jarron plays full time DT. Really a pretty solid group overall, even with an experience gap (which will happen when your 2 all-american level players graduate in the same year).

A lot of guys are going to have to step up this year in the DL and LB corps, and there's definitely going to be some hiccups, but there is a lot of talent on this defense.

Rochelle can make it as a 3-4 DE for sure, I'm more worried about the guys behind him if we really plan on being in a 3 man front at all. Ishaq and Okwara certainly will work as 4-3 DEs, they will probably flourish there, but what about 3-4? Rochelle and Day are DEs there probably, with Ishaq moving back to CAT (Or what used to be CAT), and Jones in at NT. Based on reports we didn't run a single 3 man front yesterday and you have to figure it's due to DL depth. We just don't have a lot of big body 3-4 DEs now.

 

[irishog77]

This thread sucks

 

[ozzman]

Ted Washington and Keith Traylor dominated the 4-3 DT spots for the Bears at the turn of the century. They made Urlacher look like superman out there.

Cripes! Get back to fundamentals...: Defensive Line (2001 Chicago Bears)

 

[Sherm Sticky]

This thread sucks

^This

 

[chicago51]

The 4-3 vs 3-4 D-Line body types is being way over simplified. There are multiple versions of both the 3-4 and the 4-3. With the 3-4 you play the two gap version where you need giants or the one gap version where you have more options.

Same with 4-3 to an extent. The Seattle Seahawks 4-3 under scheme they won the Super Bowl with is basically half 4-3 and half 3-4. The weakside DE is your typical 4-3 pass rusher. On the strong side they basically have a 3-4 look as there strong side DE plays up on tackle has a 3-4 DE built (Red Bryant is 315 lbs) and they play their Sam LB up on the TE which is typical of the 3-4.

So until we know more we know more about BVGs specific scheme this whole 3-4 body types vs 4-3 types debate is overblown. Is BVG running a two gap 3-4 or a one gap? How often are we playing 4 down linemen? Until we know these things it is kind of hard to speculate where guys will be playing.

 

[Irish#1]

New catch phrase for 2014......."Hand in the ground".

 

[TheRealLynch51]

The 4-3 vs 3-4 D-Line body types is being way over simplified. There are multiple versions of both the 3-4 and the 4-3. With the 3-4 you play the two gap version where you need giants or the one gap version where you have more options.

Same with 4-3 to an extent. The Seattle Seahawks 4-3 under scheme they won the Super Bowl with is basically half 4-3 and half 3-4. The weakside DE is your typical 4-3 pass rusher. On the strong side they basically have a 3-4 look as there strong side DE plays up on tackle has a 3-4 DE built (Red Bryant is 315 lbs) and they play their Sam LB up on the TE which is typical of the 3-4.

So until we know more we know more about BVGs specific scheme this whole 3-4 body types vs 4-3 types debate is overblown. Is BVG running a two gap 3-4 or a one gap? How often are we playing 4 down linemen? Until we know these things it is kind of hard to speculate where guys will be playing.

I'm under the assumption that we'll be playing 4-3 Base, both one gappers, switching to a 4-3 Over/Under since its a glorified 3-4 anyways. I'm basing this off of what all the recruits are saying BVG told them via ISD interviews.

EDIT: Just read some more more stuff about practice. They were in a 4-3 over for most of the day per ISD

 

[woolybug25]

I'm under the assumption that we'll be playing 4-3 Base, both one gappers, switching to a 4-3 Over/Under since its a glorified 3-4 anyways. I'm basing this off of what all the recruits are saying BVG told them via ISD interviews.

Same here.

 

[T Town Tommy]

The 4-3 vs 3-4 D-Line body types is being way over simplified. There are multiple versions of both the 3-4 and the 4-3. With the 3-4 you play the two gap version where you need giants or the one gap version where you have more options.

Same with 4-3 to an extent. The Seattle Seahawks 4-3 under scheme they won the Super Bowl with is basically half 4-3 and half 3-4. The weakside DE is your typical 4-3 pass rusher. On the strong side they basically have a 3-4 look as there strong side DE plays up on tackle has a 3-4 DE built (Red Bryant is 315 lbs) and they play their Sam LB up on the TE which is typical of the 3-4.

So until we know more we know more about BVGs specific scheme this whole 3-4 body types vs 4-3 types debate is overblown. Is BVG running a two gap 3-4 or a one gap? How often are we playing 4 down linemen? Until we know these things it is kind of hard to speculate where guys will be playing.

I will go on record here and speculate that this will be BVG's DL strategy. Since we are only speculating...

Alabama's 3-4 Defense: D-Line Basics | The Key Play

 

[TheRealLynch51]

I will go on record here and speculate that this will be BVG's DL strategy. Since we are only speculating...

Alabama's 3-4 Defense: D-Line Basics | The Key Play

From what I just read, that is exactly what Diaco taught philosophically.

 

[T Town Tommy]

From what I just read, that is exactly what Diaco taught philosophically.

I agree to a point. But Diaco blitzed way more than Bama did. His problem was he told the whole world he was going to do it.

 

[chicago51]

I'm under the assumption that we'll be playing 4-3 Base, both one gappers, switching to a 4-3 Over/Under since its a glorified 3-4 anyways. I'm basing this off of what all the recruits are saying BVG told them via ISD interviews.

EDIT: Just read some more more stuff about practice. They were in a 4-3 over for most of the day per ISD

Okay cool. I can go with that so I hope you are right.

This some in depth football Xs and Os stuff here but I prefer the under scheme which is a weakside 3 tech and a strong side 1 tech/NT as opposed to the over which is a strong side 3 tech and a weakside 1 tech. I think the under setup protects your weakside pass rusher on running plays a little bit better.

That said I can live with over front as well. I think that the 4-3 over/under really fits are personnel real well as it really is a hybrid defense as you mentioned.

 

[TheRealLynch51]

I agree to a point. But Diaco blitzed way more than Bama did. His problem was he told the whole world he was going to do it.

Exactly. Good Point.

 

[woolybug25]

I agree to a point. But Diaco blitzed way more than Bama did. His problem was he told the whole world he was going to do it.

Reading "Diaco blitzed more" sent a shock through me. lol

 

[ryno 24]

I love Sabans defense and I think we could play it. Diaco wasnt as aggressive, because he did not trust his secondary. I see against pro sets we run more of the 3-4 against spread teams we run a nickel 4-2-5 to a 4-3 and this will be 3/4 of our style.

 

[peoriairish]

Fuck Michigan.

 

[IRISHMAN]

Fuck Michigan.

I agree with everything you just said.

 

[PANDFAN]

I agree to a point. But Diaco blitzed way more than Bama did. His problem was he told the whole world he was going to do it.

meanwhile Bennett jackson is somewhere still waving his hand that he is coming off the edge.....

 

[chicago51]

I love Sabans defense and I think we could play it. Diaco wasnt as aggressive, because he did not trust his secondary. I see against pro sets we run more of the 3-4 against spread teams we run a nickel 4-2-5 to a 4-3 and this will be 3/4 of our style.

Yea if you look at Saban he typically runs 4-2-5 (or 2-4-5 depending on how you look at it as the DE guys in Saban's nickel typically standup outside LB types) a lot vs spread teams as well.

Problem he had with Auburn this year is he didn't know what to run as they run standard spread looks with this power heavy backfield stuff (even though it is still out of the shotgun) mixed in and the 4-2 isn't great against power sets.

 

[PANDFAN]

<script src="http://player.espn.com/player.js?playerBrandingId=4ef8000cbaf34c1687a7d9a26fe0e89e&adSetCode=91cDU6NuXTGKz3OdjOxFdAgJVtQcKJnI&pcode=1kNG061cgaoolOncv54OAO1ceO-I&width=576&height=324&externalId=espn:10546800&thruParam_espn-ui[autoPlay]=false&thruParam_espn-ui[playRelatedExternally]=true"></script>

 

[tko]

Hey media, it's Everett GOLSON, not GOLSTON!

 

[returnofthemack]

I agree to a point. But Diaco blitzed way more than Bama did. His problem was he told the whole world he was going to do it.

Yup. CB would move off the receiver, OLB would come up to the line. QB makes the easy audible, defense changes nothing and still blitzes, QB completes easy wide-open pass, Farley whiffs on tackle, etc.

 

[IrishLion]

So in this whole 3-4/4-3 debate/discussion...

3-4:
Okwara - Schmidt - Moore - Smith
Day - Jones - Williams

4-3:
Schmidt - Moore - Smith
Okwara - Day - Jones - Williams


...what is the debate about this? The only difference (if Ishaq sticks at DE regardless of alignment) is that Okwara is putting his hand on the ground rather than standing up and potentially playing in space.

Am I missing something?

 

[ulukinatme]

So in this whole 3-4/4-3 debate/discussion...

3-4:
Okwara - Schmidt - Moore - Smith
Day - Jones - Williams

4-3:
Schmidt - Moore - Smith
Okwara - Day - Jones - Williams


...what is the debate about this? The only difference (if Ishaq sticks at DE regardless of alignment) is that Okwara is putting his hand on the ground rather than standing up and potentially playing in space.

Am I missing something?

I would leave Ishaq as Cat in 3-4 and maybe put Rochelle in at DE. Rochelle is a little bigger and is better against the run imo. The bigger question is...who is 2nd string in a 3-4 look? We really don't have the big bodies at DE to pull off a 3-4 look if someone gets injured on the DL. Perhaps it makes sense that we almost entirely ran a 4-3 yesterday.

 

[Emcee77]

So in this whole 3-4/4-3 debate/discussion...

3-4:
Okwara - Schmidt - Moore - Smith
Day - Jones - Williams

4-3:
Schmidt - Moore - Smith
Okwara - Day - Jones - Williams


...what is the debate about this? The only difference (if Ishaq sticks at DE regardless of alignment) is that Okwara is putting his hand on the ground rather than standing up and potentially playing in space.

Am I missing something?

I don't know; I've been wondering the same thing. I think our defense is going to look basically the same next season. Maybe a bit more 4-3 than last year, but not a drastic change.

 

[PANDFAN]

I would leave Ishaq as Cat in 3-4 and maybe put Rochelle in at DE. Rochelle is a little bigger and is better against the run imo. The bigger question is...who is 2nd string in a 3-4 look? We really don't have the big bodies at DE to pull off a 3-4 look if someone gets injured on the DL. Perhaps it makes sense that we almost entirely ran a 4-3 yesterday.

CAT AND DOG are no longer allowed to be used...at least according to BK

 

[ulukinatme]

CAT AND DOG are no longer allowed to be used...at least according to BK

Yeah, but until we have another name for them, I've got nothing else to call them

 

[IrishLion]

I don't know; I've been wondering the same thing. I think our defense is going to look basically the same next season. Maybe a bit more 4-3 than last year, but not a drastic change.

The thing that concerns me most is our linebackers when we go from 3-4 to the 4-3 look.

I love Okwara putting his hand down at DE and Day sliding inside... but I have zero confidence in any of our linebackers being able to play the "outside" spot opposite Jaylon in the 4-3.

Maybe Randolph? Or maybe another DE could step up (Rochelle?) and it would allow Okwara to stand up even in the 4-3?

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I'm not confident in ANY backer aside from Jaylon. Until Grace is healthy, Deeb has put some reps on film, and Morgan arrives, I'm not confident about ILB either.

 

[koonja]

Springman seems to be an after thought, and I'm fine with that considering his injury and he hasn't been mentioned in any videos, but really hoping he actually is the 'man child' some thought he was last year. We need him.