'20 MO WR Jordan Johnson (Notre Dame Signee)

[Irish YJ]

People throw this out there like there is no downside. What if the defense shows a look that makes the route JJ was supposed to run a poor option and Ian has to check at the line? You just waste a play? Or have a guy like Austin, Lenzy, Tremble, Skowronek out there and have the full playbook?

I really like Johnson out of high school, but he's not a Marquise Brown, Jamarr Chase, or even Tee Higgins type that as 1 or 2 freakish gifts. He is really good at almost everything but will need to rely on good route running, a full arsenal of routes at his disposal and continue to add strength to pair with his solid top end speed to be a contributor early.

To the bolded, I'm not saying that JJ is ready. I will say though that a lot of teams use route-poor athletes in their schemes regularly. IIRC, Ohio State has a long history of limited routes for specific guys or WR positions. It's why draft grading OSU WRs is difficult at times.

 

[irishandy]

I expect JJ to have more of an impact next year.

 

[IrishLion]

To the bolded, I'm not saying that JJ is ready. I will say though that a lot of teams use route-poor athletes in their schemes regularly. IIRC, Ohio State has a long history of limited routes for specific guys or WR positions. It's why draft grading OSU WRs is difficult at times.

ND will do it for a guy that is handling his business the way he's supposed to.

Chris Brown was a skinny-post specialist in '12.

Fuller was a go-route specialist in '13, Robinson was a fade specialist.

Stepherson in '16 was basically the same as Brown/Fuller, with a bit more responsibility.

BK has no problem using young WR's with limited application... so that only leaves a few reasons for JJ to not be contributing right now, really.

 

[Irish YJ]

ND will do it for a guy that is handling his business the way he's supposed to.

Chris Brown was a skinny-post specialist in '12.

Fuller was a go-route specialist in '13, Robinson was a fade specialist.

Stepherson in '16 was basically the same as Brown/Fuller, with a bit more responsibility.

BK has no problem using young WR's with limited application... so that only leaves a few reasons for JJ to not be contributing right now, really.

Great insight and points Lion. I think some of those guys were partly a product of scarcity too.

Brown, Stepherson, and Fuller were all burners too, right? And Rob was a big. Not sure if JJ is either a burner and isn't a big. Any idea what JJ or Watts's speed is?

 

[PANDFAN]

Great insight and points Lion. I think some of those guys were partly a product of scarcity too.

Brown, Stepherson, and Fuller were all burners too, right? And Rob was a big. Not sure if JJ is either a burner and isn't a big. Any idea what JJ or Watts's speed is?

jj-good speed not great
watts-quick twitch kid, good to great speed

 

[Irish#1]

holy shit! so maybe the coaches know more than a bunch of people on ie/facebook/twitter/other message boards

Don't be silly.

 

[dublinirish]

tbf the freshman "doghouse" seemed to put Claypool amongst others on a good path to becoming model pro's. Just got to wait and see with Austin, Johnson etc. Their best days might be beyond CFB

 

[ThePiombino]

No reason not to put a designed play or two in there for him to get the ball and see what he has. It's not going to stunt his growth, so why not?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[T-Boone]

Claypool only got 5 catches as a freshman. If they had of gotten him more he might have been ready earlier and made a bigger contribution against Clemson in 18. I'd just get the high upside WRs involved straight away unless they are out like Austin was last year.
If the WRs are going to be producing like they are now anyway then why not have a young high up side player in there.

 

[IrishLax]

Remember, we didn't have a real fall camp. It's extremely difficult with modified practices and no fall camp for freshmen to come in and truly push veterans for playing time.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Remember, we didn't have a real fall camp. It's extremely difficult with modified practices and no fall camp for freshmen to come in and truly push veterans for playing time.

This x1000.

Johnson was already behind since he had no spring, but then fall got cut short and then they had to suspend football for 2 weeks.

Not ideal circumstances for a freshman to catch up with the more experienced players.

Not to mention, it's hard to justify moving McKinley after the game he had against FSU. Now, there's a reason to, but now Austin is back to full strength and Lenzy should be back too.

 

[ShroudedInMystery]

Trust the coaching staff. The egos of people on the internet never cease to amaze me.

 

[NDPhilly]

Kelly has for the most part made the most of the WRs that he's recruited. "Busts" that come to mind are Davonte Neal, Justin Brent, & probably Javon McKinley although Neal and Brent had other issues. McKinley I think was just rated too highly as I don't see the physical tools there.

None of these guys were top 150 recruits yet all turned into NFL players:

TJ Jones
Eq. St Brown
Will Fuller
Miles Boykin
Chase Claypool

 

[NDdomer2]

I'm lost here.

If JJ/Watts etc were better than the upper classmen, don't you think they would be playing more? Kelly has proven before that he'll play fresh skill position players. Tyree and Mayer have already moved past guys, right now...

Sounds like we have some well-wishers.

People are just upset with the passing offense so the answer had to be players that aren't playing.

 

[Irish YJ]

Remember, we didn't have a real fall camp. It's extremely difficult with modified practices and no fall camp for freshmen to come in and truly push veterans for playing time.

I agree, but Tyree and Lewis?

 

[Irish YJ]

People are just upset with the passing offense so the answer had to be players that aren't playing.

I think it's as much a product of having limited measurable guys like Skowronek and Javon as your 1 and 2 to start the season. And on top of that, a third that is a QB2017/RB2018/CB&NB2019/WR2020.

 

[T-Boone]

People are just upset with the passing offense so the answer had to be players that aren't playing.

Well its not as if thinking that is possible is really unreasonable. BKs dog house has hurt us in the past for example in the Georgia game in 2017 with refusing to give Williams 5 or so carries. Or Williams last season.

 

[BabyIrish]

This has nothing to do with ego’s or thinking we’re better then the coaches. This has everything to do with how other elite programs operate. They get their athletes ready and on the field. Clemson for the last couple of years plays upward to 6-8 receivers a gam and not just during scrub time. Same with Ohio State. It’s not saying that JJ or Watts should start. It’s saying they are athletes and they need to get on the field in some capacity. Lou Holts was also great at this. This has been a reoccurring issue with the current staff although I’m glad we’re seeing Mayer and Tyree being used.

 

[dad4aa]

Someone already said this, but there is no reason you can;t give him or Watts 3 routes each and call it a day. Also may be your playbook is too complex. It is football not rocket science.

Read the post before yours. Have to know the playbook in case an audible has to be called.

 

[NDdomer2]

Well its not as if thinking that is possible is really unreasonable. BKs dog house has hurt us in the past for example in the Georgia game in 2017 with refusing to give Williams 5 or so carries. Or Williams last season.

And if williams came in that game fumbles or blows a block and gets the qb killed for season then what?

They play who they play for a reason and talent isn't the sole reason. Trust is a huge part of that decision process, and trust is built in practice and off the field.

I think it deserves mention here that they finally decided to play Johnson and he immediately gets a 15 yarder for punching a guy.

 

[NDdomer2]

This has nothing to do with ego’s or thinking we’re better then the coaches. This has everything to do with how other elite programs operate. They get their athletes ready and on the field. Clemson for the last couple of years plays upward to 6-8 receivers a gam and not just during scrub time. Same with Ohio State. It’s not saying that JJ or Watts should start. It’s saying they are athletes and they need to get on the field in some capacity. Lou Holts was also great at this. This has been a reoccurring issue with the current staff although I’m glad we’re seeing Mayer and Tyree being used.

Or maybe their athletes are better and that's why they are elite. Or maybe their athletes have less off field demands allowing them to be more prepared.

 

[Bluto]

Or maybe their athletes are better and that's why they are elite. Or maybe their athletes have less off field demands allowing them to be more prepared.

I’ll take B for 1000. I cannot believe that people still have to explain that being a Freshman Student Athlete at ND is radically different than at say Clemson. It’s the deadest of dead horses.

 

[IrishBoognish]

Listen


Throw out Lenzy, MM, JJ, and Austin

.Theres no way they drop more passes than I saw last week.

And theyre studs.
.
off we go. Go Irish.

 

[IrishBoognish]

I’ll take B for 1000. I cannot believe that people still have to explain that being a Freshman Student Athlete at ND is radically different than at say Clemson. It’s the deadest of dead horses.

Blah Blah Blah.


Get them in there. We're living under a COVID year and playing in a conference.

Fuck it.


Give it hell.

(big fan bluto)

 

[BabyIrish]

Or maybe their athletes are better and that's why they are elite. Or maybe their athletes have less off field demands allowing them to be more prepared.

Or maybe they’re better coaches

 

[NDohio]

I’ll take B for 1000. I cannot believe that people still have to explain that being a Freshman Student Athlete at ND is radically different than at say Clemson. It’s the deadest of dead horses.

Add to it that teams like Clemson push hard for their recruits to enroll early. This season's Clemson team had 15 freshman on campus in the spring and that's pretty consistent with other programs.

 

[Irish YJ]

On the same narrative, watching Game Day. They just talked about ND/Pitt.

Pretty much said ND isn't a top 5 team, and the passing game needs to improve.

Herb said something like "Book is fine, they need to develop the young WRs"......

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Add to it that teams like Clemson push hard for their recruits to enroll early. This season's Clemson team had 15 freshman on campus in the spring and that's pretty consistent with other programs.

It's easy when they don't have foreign language requirements...

 

[Irish YJ]

It's easy when they don't have foreign language requirements...

Need MORE German players...

 

[stpeteirish]

Need MORE German players...

Sampson is reporting Johnson is not on the field for warmups