'20 CT QB Drew Pyne (ND->ASU->MO->BGSU Transfer)

[Some Irish Bloke]

I'm still 60/40 on this. I want to go with what you said above but I also haven't seen enough of Buchner to know if he the extreme upside everyone speaks of. We know he's an athlete but can he develop pocket awareness and the ability to checkdown or move to the 3rd/4th read.

I think Pyne has a ton of self-belief and I love that in a QB. His frame and arm strength are detractions but that doesn't often become a problem until you play a team where you need every option on the table .

Pyne has the lead in terms of QB play.
]
Buchner wins athleticism and arm strength off the bat. If he can pull even with Pyne in terms of QB plays during live/7v, etc, then he likely wins. So that is really the gamble you are playing. I think coaches who swing for the fences like Marcus Freeman likely do that with their players when a race is close.

I'd be inclined to bet Buchner if anyone was giving decent odds.

I'd say watch his Toledo highlights (I know, I know, it was Toledo) and that gives you a glimpse into how disruptive he can be. I'm really excited to see Tommy run this offense without CBK keeping tabs on the offense. Buchner's athleticism and arm strength are everything you need to unleash a true RPO. That pass down the sidelines to Tyree on the wheel route was a thing of beauty.

To your other point, I agree that TB12 needs to get better as a pocket passer to really trust him, especially in Cbus. I'll be curious to see what they decide. I think Buchner gives us the best chance to be a dynamic offense but that's a tough ask for his first start.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I’m curious. What makes you say that, about Pyne’s ceiling being higher than Book’s. In what little we’ve seen of Pyne they appear verrry similar players. Maybe Pyne has a smidge stronger arm, but not sure he has Book’s legs. Overall it seems pretty even.

I’m also glad we have both but if we want to move forward I really hope Buchner wins the job.

Book struggled reading the D, resistant to target the middle of the field, took the conservative option too often.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Book struggled reading the D, resistant to target the middle of the field, took the conservative option too often.

this was definitely his crutch. He shied away from taking shots deep, and always hesitated to pull the trigger over the middle on the intermediate throws which is usually the soft spot of most secondaries.

He made up for it with his innovation and athleticism, but when teams contained that aspect of his game (See Clemson rematch in ACCCG and Bama CFP), it rendered our offense useless.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Book's innovation was almost always relegated to his legs. He had moments of brilliance by keeping plays alive, but oftentimes, he was too conservative with his arm. Pyne showed more willingness to change things up and take risks. Also think Pyne just has a better arm all-around. It's not a great arm, particularly not elite arm strength, but he has some considerable zip on his throws and he often puts the ball in a good spot for his receivers.

He just doesn't possess a huge arm and great athleticism like Buchner has. Those are things that, when combined with refinement and improved pocket awareness, are things that even playoff caliber defenses have to account for at all times.

 

[Irish#1]

I'd say watch his Toledo highlights (I know, I know, it was Toledo) and that gives you a glimpse into how disruptive he can be. I'm really excited to see Tommy run this offense without CBK keeping tabs on the offense. Buchner's athleticism and arm strength are everything you need to unleash a true RPO. That pass down the sidelines to Tyree on the wheel route was a thing of beauty.

To your other point, I agree that TB12 needs to get better as a pocket passer to really trust him, especially in Cbus. I'll be curious to see what they decide. I think Buchner gives us the best chance to be a dynamic offense but that's a tough ask for his first start.

I expect a big jump from TB. This will be his second year and that's where a lot of the growth happens in players. They've had a year to adjust to the academics and the demands of FB (weight training, studying playbook, etc.). That along with having a year of practice and games under your belt. Now it's more about honing the skills and improving.

 

[IrishRazor82]

Book struggled reading the D, resistant to target the middle of the field, took the conservative option too often.

And also had the pocket presence of a jellyfish.

 

[Irish4life]

I'm still 60/40 on this. I want to go with what you said above but I also haven't seen enough of Buchner to know if he the extreme upside everyone speaks of. We know he's an athlete but can he develop pocket awareness and the ability to checkdown or move to the 3rd/4th read.

I think Pyne has a ton of self-belief and I love that in a QB. His frame and arm strength are detractions but that doesn't often become a problem until you play a team where you need every option on the table .

Pyne has the lead in terms of QB play.
]
Buchner wins athleticism and arm strength off the bat. If he can pull even with Pyne in terms of QB plays during live/7v, etc, then he likely wins. So that is really the gamble you are playing. I think coaches who swing for the fences like Marcus Freeman likely do that with their players when a race is close.

I'd be inclined to bet Buchner if anyone was giving decent odds.

I mean they played Buchner in 10 games for a reason lol, and Pyne for 2.

 

[Irish4life]

Also, IMO whoever loses the QB competition enters the portal immediately.

 

[T-Boone]

Also, IMO whoever loses the QB competition enters the portal immediately.

Buchner might stay and change positions. He is apparently smart AF and if he loses out to Pyne he might be able to work out his best position is elsewhere on the field.

 

[Dale]

I don’t really except it to be a battle and think if Pyne was gonna transfer he would have at the end of the season. It was BKs thing to always insist on a battle. Look what he just did at LSU. I think everyone in the building knows the only way this thing works at full potential is Buchner, and the Buckeyes are Week 1.

 

[TorontoGold]

Buchner might stay and change positions. He is apparently smart AF and if he loses out to Pyne he might be able to work out his best position is elsewhere on the field.

Not sure Buchner would stay and go to RB where Diggs/Estime/Price are going to be ahead of him on the depth chart with similar years remaining. For WR he wouldn't go from the assumed starter where he would get at the very least get a package for him most games to having the possibility of not seeing a touch.

There is no real logical way that Buchner would consider staying at ND at another position. No shot TB would be better than Price.

 

[Irish4life]

Buchner might stay and change positions. He is apparently smart AF and if he loses out to Pyne he might be able to work out his best position is elsewhere on the field.

0 chance Tyler Buchner switches positions. Literally 0. If he loses the job at ND he could start at QB at a number of P5 programs lol.

 

[T-Boone]

0 chance Tyler Buchner switches positions. Literally 0. If he loses the job at ND he could start at QB at a number of P5 programs lol.

Literally 0 chance?
You realise players actually quit football at university from time to time. What about Steve Elmer?
He could realise he isn't good enough for a career in football as a QB and decide to focus on academics and give another position a crack.
There is easily literally at least a 1% chance of that.

Wimbush is an example of a player who should have changed positions instead of schools.

 

[NorthDakota]

I mean they played Buchner in 10 games for a reason lol, and Pyne for 2.

If Buch ain't the starter...I'm gonna lose my fucking mind

 

[NorthDakota]

Not sure Buchner would stay and go to RB where Diggs/Estime/Price are going to be ahead of him on the depth chart with similar years remaining. For WR he wouldn't go from the assumed starter where he would get at the very least get a package for him most games to having the possibility of not seeing a touch.

There is no real logical way that Buchner would consider staying at ND at another position. No shot TB would be better than Price.

Buchner would rightly leave if he ain't starting.

Hes a great athlete but he ain't a great athlete at another position.

Hes starting at QB. Pyne isnt.

 

[IrishBoognish]

The questioning of Buchner is way out of control.

I mean, I get being cautious in your expectations, but its not like he shit the bed last season. Without him, there is no way we had the record we ended up with.

Yeah, he made a few bad decisions and threw some bad balls. He also threw some amazing passes like we haven't seen in a long time and showed hes a lights out tough and fast athlete.


He's #1 and there's no real reason for debate. Pyne looks like a great guy and competitor who will be an excellent #2 until he gets his ND degree.

Pyne isn't going anywhere till he graduates.

 

[TorontoGold]

Literally 0 chance?
You realise players actually quit football at university from time to time. What about Steve Elmer?
He could realise he isn't good enough for a career in football as a QB and decide to focus on academics and give another position a crack.
There is easily literally at least a 1% chance of that.

Wimbush is an example of a player who should have changed positions instead of schools.

Elmer was absolutely good enough to have a career in football.

Wimbush wouldn't have beat out any of the below. He wouldn't have gone from starting QB to 3rd string RB. He started 12 games for ND, he could have started at a ton of P5 programs in 2018.

2018 - Dexter, and TJ Jr
2017 - Dexter, Josh Adams, TJ Jr
2016 - Dexter, Josh Adams, TJ Jr, Folston
2015 - Dexter, Josh Adams, CJ Prosise, Folston

Buchner would rightly leave if he ain't starting.

Hes a great athlete but he ain't a great athlete at another position.

Hes starting at QB. Pyne isnt.

There's a better chance of Tommy having another run in with the SBPD than TB switching his position.

 

[Irish4life]

Literally 0 chance?
You realise players actually quit football at university from time to time. What about Steve Elmer?
He could realise he isn't good enough for a career in football as a QB and decide to focus on academics and give another position a crack.
There is easily literally at least a 1% chance of that.

Wimbush is an example of a player who should have changed positions instead of schools.

Tyler Buchner is literally already a better passer than Brandon Wimbush ever was dude. Its an extremely dumb take to say that he should switch to another position and stay at ND, when he could go start at QB for another high academic school (Duke, Cal, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, etc.).

 

[T-Boone]

Tyler Buchner is literally already a better passer than Brandon Wimbush ever was dude. Its an extremely dumb take to say that he should switch to another position and stay at ND, when he could go start at QB for another high academic school (Duke, Cal, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, etc.).

Do you know how dumb it sounds to say "literally" out of context? (actually you did that twice) You sounded like a teenaged girl chewing gum. Idiot.

 

[Irish4life]

Do you know how dumb it sounds to say "literally" out of context? You sounded like a teenaged girl chewing gum. Idiot.

Literally don't care.

 

[T-Boone]

Elmer was absolutely good enough to have a career in football.

I know, so even players who have a potential career sometime pick ND academics over football.

Wimbush wouldn't have beat out any of the below. He wouldn't have gone from starting QB to 3rd string RB. He started 12 games for ND, he could have started at a ton of P5 programs in 2018.

Yeah but he DID go to another P5 school. AND we know how it turned out.
It turned out such that with hindsight he would have been better off staying at ND for the academics and also probably trying out another position.

 

[NorthDakota]

Elmer was absolutely good enough to have a career in football.

Wimbush wouldn't have beat out any of the below. He wouldn't have gone from starting QB to 3rd string RB. He started 12 games for ND, he could have started at a ton of P5 programs in 2018.

2018 - Dexter, and TJ Jr
2017 - Dexter, Josh Adams, TJ Jr
2016 - Dexter, Josh Adams, TJ Jr, Folston
2015 - Dexter, Josh Adams, CJ Prosise, Folston



There's a better chance of Tommy having another run in with the SBPD than TB switching his position.

As a man who had a couple run-ins with a small city police department akin to Tommy....would love if he did that again.

 

[TorontoGold]

I know, so even players who have a potential career sometime pick ND academics over football.


Yeah but he DID go to another P5 school. AND we know how it turned out.
It turned out such that with hindsight he would have been better off staying at ND for the academics and also probably trying out another position.

Steve Elmer leaving after getting an ND degree vs considering using one last year to prep for the NFL is not something that can be used a comparable to Buchner nor Pyne as they don't have an ND degree yet. Buchner could go leave after this year and go to a comparable academic school and likely be the starting QB.

Wimbush absolutely would not have been better off staying at ND. He left as a graduate transfer. He had quite literally nothing left at ND. There was no spot for him as a RB in 2019. This is not a sensible argument.

 

[T-Boone]

Steve Elmer leaving after getting an ND degree vs considering using one last year to prep for the NFL is not something that can be used a comparable to Buchner nor Pyne as they don't have an ND degree yet. Buchner could go leave after this year and go to a comparable academic school and likely be the starting QB.

yes it can

Wimbush absolutely would not have been better off staying at ND. He left as a graduate transfer. He had quite literally nothing left at ND. There was no spot for him as a RB in 2019. This is not a sensible argument.

Are ND post graduate degrees worthless?

 

[stlnd01]

yes it can

Are ND post graduate degrees worthless?

5Y football players rarely get a graduate degree. They take a few classes for one semester and then prepare full-time for the draft in the fall.

Regardless, this is a silly conversation. Buchner has the higher ceiling, by far. He has shown more as well. He really should be the QB if the point of it all is to take Notre Dame to the next level. If the staff goes with Pyne b/c Pyne is better this spring/summer, OK, but then you’re looking at a QB room of Pyne and Angeli b/c Buchner would be quickly welcomed by half the P5 and - as a sophomore with three years of eligibility - he’d be crazy not to go.
Pyne is a year ahead of Buchner, with less potential. He might be a starting QB somewhere someday but if it’s Notre Dame in September that’s because they whiffed on Buchner and settled for plan B.

 

[TorontoGold]

yes it can

Are ND post graduate degrees worthless?

Neither Buchner nor Pyne are comparable to Steve Elmer.

No they are not worthless and I don’t know why you would ask. I think a starting QB for ND wouldn't have issues getting into grad school at ND.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Just want to point out that TB threw 3 picks in only 36 attempts last year. Even for a first year starter that is awfully high and speaks somewhat to his decision making, accuracy or both. He made some plays with his legs, but unless he makes huge strides, we are not going to be a team that can afford to have a QB complete less than 60% of his passes and throw 15+ picks this year. I think the potential is there for him to develop into a pretty nasty dual threat QB, but I think some are getting a little ahead of themselves anointing him already. He’s going to have to prove it.

 

[Irish4life]

Just want to point out that TB threw 3 picks in only 36 attempts last year. Even for a first year starter that is awfully high and speaks somewhat to his decision making, accuracy or both. He made some plays with his legs, but unless he makes huge strides, we are not going to be a team that can afford to have a QB complete less than 60% of his passes and throw 15+ picks this year. I think the potential is there for him to develop into a pretty nasty dual threat QB, but I think some are getting a little ahead of themselves anointing him already. He’s going to have to prove it.

He also threw 3 TDs, ran for 3 TDs, led the team in YPA (small sample size but comparable to Pyne) and completed 60% of his passes.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

He also threw 3 TDs, and completed 60% of his passes.

He actually completed just under 60% of his passes, but even if we say OK he completes 60% of his passes this year, do you think the team will have a successful season if he throws 18 TDs and 18 Ints? How about even 27 TDs and 18 INTs.

Of the INT's one he was about to be hit as he threw, but even without the hit, the pass is likely intercepted as he was throwing into coverage with a man underneath the route and it was a bad decision.
He threw a completely unpressured pick 6 in the VT game where it was just a horrible decision. The CB was obviously sitting on the route but he had predetermined where he was going with the ball regardless. The last was a forced, late throw over the middle that was overthrown and another really bad decision.

He made some really nice plays throughout the season, but he also had a few REALLY poorly placed balls on wide open screen plays (one in particular I remember he fired one over Kyrens head on a perfectly set up middle screen.

My point stands, he needs to make HUGE growth in accuracy and decision making to be a QB that can successfully lead a top 10 team. I am just saying it is crazy to read people saying something wrong and they are going to lose it if he doesn't start this year. He has the highest level of athleticism at the position for ND in some time, but a complete QB that can beat you with his arm he is not. It is simply too early at this point to make the statement he has earned anything other than the chance to compete for the starting QB spot to open the season.

I hope he wins the Heisman, but let's be realistic about where he is, and what he has proven up to this point in time.

 

[Irish4life]

He actually completed just under 60% of his passes, but even if we say OK he completes 60% of his passes this year, do you think the team will have a successful season if he throws 18 TDs and 18 Ints? How about even 27 TDs and 18 INTs.

Of the INT's one he was about to be hit as he threw, but even without the hit, the pass is likely intercepted as he was throwing into coverage with a man underneath the route and it was a bad decision.
He threw a completely unpressured pick 6 in the VT game where it was just a horrible decision. The CB was obviously sitting on the route but he had predetermined where he was going with the ball regardless. The last was a forced, late throw over the middle that was overthrown and another really bad decision.

He made some really nice plays throughout the season, but he also had a few REALLY poorly placed balls on wide open screen plays (one in particular I remember he fired one over Kyrens head on a perfectly set up middle screen.

My point stands, he needs to make HUGE growth in accuracy and decision making to be a QB that can successfully lead a top 10 team. I am just saying it is crazy to read people saying something wrong and they are going to lose it if he doesn't start this year. He has the highest level of athleticism at the position for ND in some time, but a complete QB that can beat you with his arm he is not. It is simply too early at this point to make the statement he has earned anything other than the chance to compete for the starting QB spot to open the season.

I hope he wins the Heisman, but let's be realistic about where he is, and what he has proven up to this point in time.

Tyler Buchner Stats | ESPN
21/35 (60%), 298 yards, 8.5 YPA, 3 TDs/3 INTs

I think some of yall don't know what you want tbh. I remember how much people complained and whined on various ND forums about how "Kelly never played true freshman (or underclassmen) because he was scared that they'd make mistakes", then a true freshman forces his way onto the playing field and it's suddenly "we have to be concerned about him going forward because he wasn't perfect and made mistakes". Tyler Buchner wasn't ready to start at ND in 2021, but to this point there's no reason to believe that he won't be ready to be the starter at ND in 2022.