'20 CA CB Ramon Henderson (Notre Dame Signee)

[dad4aa]

BK recently told us that they are looking for speed regardless of previous position. Ramon has that in spades. At some point he'll be a 6'2+ 200 lb. WR or S with sub 4.5 speed. CJ Prosise was recruited at S, then moved to WR, then moved to RB, and in that same year became a 3rd round draft pick. Who cares where he plays currently and who cares where he plays when at ND. I'm sure the staff will figure it out for the betterment of the program. And, if at the end of the day he doesn't end up being a productive position player, who cares. That's why we have 85 scholarship players. The reality is some guys have to be scholarships 50-85. I could think of a lot worse prospects to have at those positions than a guy who has ran a real timed 10.59 100.

And for those worried about his explosiveness or quickness, a significant part of a 100 M race is the start. I highly doubt this kid is running a faster 100M than Braden Lenzy with a terrible start because he can't close his stride when needed. Lenzy's best 100 in HS was 10.62.

There you go again Lucky bringing facts into a debate that shouldn't even be happening

 

[Luckylucci]

I think it has to do with people being down on Bartleson and Lewis as DB's, which I completely disagree with I and think both those guys will be good for us, and not seeing Henderson as someone better than them.

And I get it. It's not a terribly exciting group from a rankings perspective. But I think it's a very interesting group from a tangible traits perspective. I think some tend to focus on it as if we're playing tommorrow, "well this guy isn't going to help us beat teams like UGA, Clemson, etc". Or "Clemson WR's are going to smoke this guy next year." And in some cases that may be true, but it's not an individual depth chart.

It's a depth chart made up of multiple players and varying skillsets. In reality, the staff doesn't have to field a DB unit with Henderson. They don't have to field one with Bartelson. They have to field one with a combination of guys from Bartelson, Offord, Lewis, Henderson, Pryor, Griffith, Hamilton, Wallace, Rutherford, Dj Brown, Cam Hart, Bracy, etc. All of those guys have 2+ years of eligibility and there will be more coming in behind them. There is size/length in that group. There are some guys that project to specific positions (like Nickel). There are varying degrees of DB skillsets. And there are some truly elite athletes. Can the staff put together a winning DB group from those guys. I'd bet yes.

 

[BeauBenken]

Nobody show Koon what Isaiah Simmons ran like in high school.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

And I get it. It's not a terribly exciting group from a rankings perspective. But I think it's a very interesting group from a tangible traits perspective. I think some tend to focus on it as if we're playing tommorrow, "well this guy isn't going to help us beat teams like UGA, Clemson, etc". Or "Clemson WR's are going to smoke this guy next year." And in some cases that may be true, but it's not an individual depth chart.

It's a depth chart made up of multiple players and varying skillsets. In reality, the staff doesn't have to field a DB unit with Henderson. They don't have to field one with Bartelson. They have to field one with a combination of guys from Bartelson, Offord, Lewis, Henderson, Pryor, Griffith, Hamilton, Wallace, Rutherford, Dj Brown, Cam Hart, Bracy, etc. All of those guys have 2+ years of eligibility and there will be more coming in behind them. There is size/length in that group. There are some guys that project to specific positions (like Nickel). There are varying degrees of DB skillsets. And there are some truly elite athletes. Can the staff put together a winning DB group from those guys. I'd bet yes.

I understand the argument for Bartleson and Henderson from a traits perspective. Recruit fast guys and find out where to play them later. I’m also willing to give the staff the benefit of the doubt on Caleb Offord (although his senior tape is very underwhelming). But Clarence Lewis is still incomprehensible to me. Nothing about his tape suggests that he can be a starting CB on a team with CFP aspirations. It still feels like we panicked on that one.

 

[koonja]

Nobody show Koon what Isaiah Simmons ran like in high school.

Touche, but he was 6'3, 215 in HS and always destined to play LB (which he did).

I can handle some LBs running like Gump. Just not any DBs.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

I think this is a fair, but slightly optimistic, assessment of him.

https://www.si.com/college/notredame/recruiting/notre-dame-recruiting-fit-for-db-ramon-henderson/

Boy, I thought it was a Driskell thing, but the writing at the Maven is just atrocious. Good analysis, but written at a fourth grade level.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I understand the argument for Bartleson and Henderson from a traits perspective. Recruit fast guys and find out where to play them later. I’m also willing to give the staff the benefit of the doubt on Caleb Offord (although his senior tape is very underwhelming). But Clarence Lewis is still incomprehensible to me. Nothing about his tape suggests that he can be a starting CB on a team with CFP aspirations. It still feels like we panicked on that one.

From what I have read Lewis has had a very good season and is expected to be bumped up in the rankings. If I remember correctly from Lewis H.S. coach he is playing a position that is best for his team, which is different than the CB spot he will be playing at Notre Dame. And again like Lucky stated you need guys to fill roster spots 50-85. Lewis may never be a starter, but he can add depth and play special teams with his sub 4.5 40.

 

[BeauBenken]

Touche, but he was 6'3, 215 in HS and always destined to play LB (which he did).

I can handle some LBs running like Gump. Just not any DBs.

Started at safety though and then moved to LB. If Henderson is really 6'2" and 190+ I see no reason he can't share a similar trajectory.


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[Henges24]

So has has speed and according to some he is not a good DB.

Sounds like Troy Pride to me.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

So has has speed and according to some he is not a good DB.

Sounds like Troy Pride to me.

Which is not a bad thing. Pride didn’t live up to the expectation us fans, coaching staff and probably himself had going into the season; but he is a quality power 5 level starting CB.


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[Irish YJ]

So has has speed and according to some he is not a good DB.

Sounds like Troy Pride to me.

Can he catch.

 

[DogDaysIrish]

So has has speed and according to some he is not a good DB.

Sounds like Troy Pride to me.

Yikes...I've about had enough of that circus.

 

[ThePiombino]

From what I have read Lewis has had a very good season and is expected to be bumped up in the rankings. If I remember correctly from Lewis H.S. coach he is playing a position that is best for his team, which is different than the CB spot he will be playing at Notre Dame. And again like Lucky stated you need guys to fill roster spots 50-85. Lewis may never be a starter, but he can add depth and play special teams with his sub 4.5 40.

The problem is when guys destined for slots 50-85 wind up in the 2-deep at CB which is what 75% of next year's roster will look like barring a Crawford change of mind.

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[Crazy Balki]

Grab all the long athletes you can.

Between Watts, Henderson, Offord, Lewis and Bartleson (also Rutherford, Wallace and Hart), you should have a ton of quality athleticism and length to put in the secondary.

 

[Irish#1]

IIRC there was this raw talent we plucked from the Canucks. I think he might be a starter on this years team.

Lou recruited for speed and figured out where to play them.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

IIRC there was this raw talent we plucked from the Canucks. I think he might be a starter on this years team.



Lou recruited for speed and figured out where to play them.

I hear what you are saying. But that Canadian what a consensus 4 star top 300 recruit on all services. He had a overall composite ranking of #172 overall. The kids in this class are all 3 star guys.


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[benneboy]

The problem is when guys destined for slots 50-85 wind up in the 2-deep at CB which is what 75% of next year's roster will look like barring a Crawford change of mind.

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The expectation is that Crawford comes back and I think Bracy is our best cover corner on the roster this year. Having said that I agree with your point. Depth at corner is far and away my biggest concern going into next year.

 

[ThePiombino]

The expectation is that Crawford comes back and I think Bracy is our best cover corner on the roster this year. Having said that I agree with your point. Depth at corner is far and away my biggest concern going into next year.

Right. Without Crawford, 3/4 of the 2-deep (all but Bracy) are guys that should be depth pieces, but alas here we are.

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[koonja]

Right. Without Crawford, 3/4 of the 2-deep (all but Bracy) are guys that should be depth pieces, but alas here we are.

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THIS GUY GETS IT.

Whenever we get a recruit the only acceptable response is be happy, he's a key piece, can never have enough depth, yada yada yada.

Then 3-4 years down the road we're getting our teeth kicked in and everyone is like "we have to up recruiting" but they won't mention the specifics that get us to that point of crippling misery.

I will. It's right here.

 

[ThePiombino]

THIS GUY GETS IT.

Whenever we get a recruit the only acceptable response is be happy, he's a key piece, can never have enough depth, yada yada yada.

Then 3-4 years down the road we're getting our teeth kicked in and everyone is like "we have to up recruiting" but they won't mention the specifics that get us to that point of crippling misery.

I will. It's right here.

We've had A LOT of misses at the position recently - really pathetic recruiting results tbh. It's almost unfathomable considering most recent years have put at least one DB in the league on some level. I just don't get how a super-talented kid doesn't look at that and the depth chart and say to himself, "Damn, I can make a difference. And sooner than later."

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[BabyIrish]

We've had A LOT of misses at the position recently - really pathetic recruiting results tbh. It's almost unfathomable considering most recent years have put at least one DB in the league on some level. I just don't get how a super-talented kid doesn't look at that and the depth chart and say to himself, "Damn, I can make a difference. And sooner than later."

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Julian Love was a 3* but turned into an All America. Why can't Bartleson, Lewis, Offord, and Henderson from this class do the same? Or Wallace and Rutherford from last class? Let's give some actual substantial opinions on the matter outside of their recruiting rankings.

 

[Luckylucci]

Julian Love was a 3* but turned into an All America. Why can't Bartleson, Lewis, Offord, and Henderson from this class do the same? Or Wallace and Rutherford from last class? Let's give some actual substantial opinions on the matter outside of their recruiting rankings.

To be fair to both sides, the idea isn't that all 6 will be AA's. It's the idea that it's entirely possible this staff will put together a very competitive unit with these guys because they've already done it.

 

[arrowryan]

Notre Dame is expecting good news on Wednesday in this one, per Loy.

People bitched all the time when Holland would tweet a Starbucks drink when Notre Dame was getting a commitment. Talking about it stole the kid's spotlight and broke and unwritten rule. What Loy does and what EJ did are no different.

 

[koonja]

Notre Dame is expecting good news on Wednesday in this one, per Loy.

People bitched all the time when Holland would tweet a Starbucks drink when Notre Dame was getting a commitment. Talking about it stole the kid's spotlight and broke and unwritten rule. What Loy does and what EJ did are no different.

I think the analysts are in a tough spot. Short of confirming they privately committed, they all indicate where they think someone is leaning.

 

[NDdomer2]

Notre Dame is expecting good news on Wednesday in this one, per Loy.

People bitched all the time when Holland would tweet a Starbucks drink when Notre Dame was getting a commitment. Talking about it stole the kid's spotlight and broke and unwritten rule. What Loy does and what EJ did are no different.

yeah i guess if a kid truly wants it to be a surprise he shouldnt be telling middle aged guys on the internet

 

[ThePiombino]

yeah i guess if a kid truly wants it to be a surprise he shouldnt be telling middle aged guys on the internet

This.

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[arrowryan]

yeah i guess if a kid truly wants it to be a surprise he shouldnt be telling middle aged guys on the internet

I agree. But Loy also could've gotten his information from a coach.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

Notre Dame is expecting good news on Wednesday in this one, per Loy.

People bitched all the time when Holland would tweet a Starbucks drink when Notre Dame was getting a commitment. Talking about it stole the kid's spotlight and broke and unwritten rule. What Loy does and what EJ did are no different.

The ninja emoji thing Loy does is a better comparison.

And this is just speculation, but I think other writers' beefs were because Holland used the Starbucks thing to get around otr agreements. He's not implying that there's a silent commitment, no sir! But here's a picture of a coffee cup.

 

[stpeteirish]

247 Utah analyst Steve Bartle just CB'd him to Utah

 

[KizerWilhelm]

Bartle literally said in a post yesterday that "I'M GOING TO ADD A UTAH CRYSTAL BALL TOMORROW MORNING BECAUSE I WANT MADNESS" https://247sports.com/college/utah/Board/105314/Contents/Final-predictions-140714914/