'16 IN WR Austin Mack (Ohio State Verbal)

[Sherm Sticky]

What you fail to understand is that there are kids with ND offers that have very little chance at succeeding at ND. They simply don't have the education, in the classroom and in the classroom of life, to handle a place like ND. ND would either swallow them whole, or they'd rebel and reject what ND was selling. For those kids, OSU might very well be a better fit and yes, a better choice.

I've worked in the ghetto/barrio pretty much my entire adult life until about 6 months ago, with children of all ages. Believe me when I tell you that most of them, even kids good hearts and good intentions, couldn't handle ND, even with all the academic support. They are kids of color in a white world, in classes with students that are privileged and come from the best high schools across the country, who don't have to work nor out in 20+ hours of football every week. I work on campus and it is a different world than the disadvantaged places a lot of these recruits are coming from.

There is a LONG list of players who came here who had no business coming here, who flunked out or got kicked out or just plain quit. Aaron Lynch, Davonte Neal, Justin Ferguson, Johnny Williams, Davaris Daniels and the Frozen 5...I could go on and on talking about guys who should never have been here in the first place and got kicked out and/or left. And yes, there are kids from tough neighborhoods that have made it at ND, but those kids are special and not everyone is wired that way.

So I completely disagree with your thought that a kid should always choose ND over OSU and he's an idiot if he doesn't. That's not even remotely close to correct because everyone is different and comes from different backgrounds. I LOVE Notre Dame, but not every kid can handle ND, because once they get here, no matter how many academic/social risks the admin lets in for the football team (and there are plenty), ND is unrelenting in their beliefs once they get on campus, and these kids are going to earn their degree. And some kids simply can't do that...they SHOULD choose another school and that's OK IMHO.

Well said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OhioIrish]

The bottom line is that any student-athlete can get there money's worth if they put the time in and achieve, regardless of the school they attend. Top of the class at OSU, ND, Harvard are all going to set you up for life. The difference between OSU and ND is the quality of students at the bottom of rankings.

Also, while ND is a great, GREAT school, it is not an "elite" institution. It is not Harvard, Princeton or Stanford. Let's stop pretending otherwise. In truth, ND is 3 hours drive from 3 different schools that are more prestigious. That said, it not OSU or Michigan St. either and should be recognized as more rigorous
.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

The bottom line is that any student-athlete can get there money's worth if they put the time in and achieve, regardless of the school they attend. Top of the class at OSU, ND, Harvard are all going to set you up for life. The difference between OSU and ND is the quality of students at the bottom of rankings.

Also, while ND is a great, GREAT school, it is not an "elite" institution. It is not Harvard, Princeton or Stanford. Let's stop pretending otherwise. In truth, ND is 3 hours drive from 3 different schools that are more prestigious. That said, it not OSU or Michigan St. either and should be recognized as more rigorous
.

Serious question, what are the 3 prestigious schools. North Western is one, but what are the other two?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OhioIrish]

Serious question, what are the 3 prestigious schools. North Western is one, but what are the other two?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

U of C, and (arguably) U of M.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

'16 IN WR Austin Mack (Ohio State Verbal)

U of C, and (arguably) U of M.

U of C?

Chicago? Honestly don't know much about that school, but it's that highly regarded?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pkt77242]

U of C?

Chicago? Honestly don't know much about that school, but it's that highly regarded?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

University of Chicago is a crazy good school. Definitely top 10 in the nation, and probably top 5.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

U of C?

Chicago? Honestly don't know much about that school, but it's that highly regarded?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just checked out rankings. University of Chicago is consistently in the top 10 while ND is in the top 20 to 30.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NDPhilly]

U of C?

Chicago? Honestly don't know much about that school, but it's that highly regarded?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yeah one of my classmates got accepted to Notre Dame but denied from Chicago. Great school.

 

[pkt77242]

U of C, and (arguably) U of M.

U of M is stretching it (though they are a very good school).

 

[Sherm Sticky]

U of M is stretching it (though they are a very good school).

Yeah. Rankings wise they are in the same area as ND. The only thing is we know the difference is courses that ND athletes take compared to UM athletes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[irishfan]

If you have the opportunity to attend Notre Dame and Ohio State, and you choose to go to Ohio State, you are indeed a clown.

You know OSU is going to break this record this year for most players drafted ever?

 

[dad4aa]

You know OSU is going to break this record this year for most players drafted ever?

Possibly. And when some of them burnout, blowout their knee or become a bust, they can go back to Ohio and make their $45k working for a Notre Dame graduate.

 

[NDPhilly]

Possibly. And when some of them burnout, blowout their knee or become a bust, they can go back to Ohio and make their $45k working for a Notre Dame graduate.

 

[Classic Irish]

You know OSU is going to break this record this year for most players drafted ever?

And? What happens if Mack gets injured/doesn't pan out and ends up with a useless degree from Ohio State? All of these kids think they're going to make it to the NFL, but what percentage actually does? For every kid that makes it to the NFL, how many wind up laying bricks, selling shoes, etc... God forbid that a kid actually takes advantage of a free education and actually gets an education.

 

[NDinL.A.]

And? What happens if Mack gets injured/doesn't pan out and ends up with a useless degree from Ohio State? All of these kids think they're going to make it to the NFL, but what percentage actually does? For every kid that makes it to the NFL, how many wind up laying bricks, selling shoes, etc... God forbid that a kid actually takes advantage of a free education and actually gets an education.

I'll say it again:

What you fail to understand is that there are kids with ND offers that have very little chance at succeeding at ND. They simply don't have the education, in the classroom and in the classroom of life, to handle a place like ND. ND would either swallow them whole, or they'd rebel and reject what ND was selling. For those kids, OSU might very well be a better fit and yes, a better choice.

I've worked in the ghetto/barrio pretty much my entire adult life until about 6 months ago, with children of all ages. Believe me when I tell you that most of them, even kids good hearts and good intentions, couldn't handle ND, even with all the academic support. They are kids of color in a white world, in classes with students that are privileged and come from the best high schools across the country, who don't have to work nor out in 20+ hours of football every week. I work on campus and it is a different world than the disadvantaged places a lot of these recruits are coming from.

There is a LONG list of players who came here who had no business coming here, who flunked out or got kicked out or just plain quit. Aaron Lynch, Davonte Neal, Justin Ferguson, Johnny Williams, Davaris Daniels and the Frozen 5...I could go on and on talking about guys who should never have been here in the first place and got kicked out and/or left. And yes, there are kids from tough neighborhoods that have made it at ND, but those kids are special and not everyone is wired that way.

So I completely disagree with your thought that a kid should always choose ND over OSU and he's an idiot if he doesn't. That's not even remotely close to correct because everyone is different and comes from different backgrounds. I LOVE Notre Dame, but not every kid can handle ND, because once they get here, no matter how many academic/social risks the admin lets in for the football team (and there are plenty), ND is unrelenting in their beliefs once they get on campus, and these kids are going to earn their degree. And some kids simply can't do that...they SHOULD choose another school and that's OK IMHO.

 

[Classic Irish]

I'll say it again:

You can say it 100 times, but my experience tells me otherwise. Nothing personal but we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[rtrn2glory]

I wouldn't call a degree from osu as useless

I'm not saying they are able to sell the same thing as notre Dame does in the degree category but it's not like your printing of an online degree

 

[Classic Irish]

I wouldn't call a degree from osu as useless

I'm not saying they are able to sell the same thing as notre Dame does in the degree category but it's not like your printing of an online degree

It depends on the degree. The majors that they typically funnel athletes into (e.g leisure studies, etc...) are pretty much useless if they don't make it into the NFL.

 

[NDinL.A.]

You can say it 100 times, but my experience tells me otherwise. Nothing personal but we will have to agree to disagree.

So you're saying that kids that have very little to no chance of succeeding at ND, for a myriad of reasons, should still choose ND? And your experience tells you that?

Aaron Lunch, Davonte Neal, Johnnie Willams, Justin Furgeson, Rishad Kinlaw, and a HOST of others disagree. I'm curious to heart your rebuttal and your experience that tells you otherwise. Like I said, I worked with barrio/ghetto children for 20 years and my experience tells me otherwise. ND just isn't a fit for everyone.

 

[NDgradstudent]

U of M is stretching it (though they are a very good school).

As far as I can tell, the issue is not how "good" the school is in terms of rankings. First, most universities have some elite or at least reputable program, even if the overall ranking is much lower than ND's (e.g., Alabama's law school). Second, the issue is whether or not the athletes are held the any sort of standard when it comes to admission and eligibility. Does anybody think that Michigan, Cal, USC, Texas, or UNC hold their players to academic standards comparable to ND's standards, even though those schools are ranked in the top 30 in US News? When was the last time you heard about an OSU player suspended for an academic (as opposed to behavioral/legal) transgression?

 

[IrishLion]

So you're saying that kids that have very little to no chance of succeeding at ND, for a myriad of reasons, should still choose ND? And your experience tells you that?

Aaron Lunch, Davonte Neal, Johnnie Willams, Justin Furgeson, Rishad Kinlaw, and a HOST of others disagree. I'm curious to heart your rebuttal and your experience that tells you otherwise. Like I said, I worked with barrio/ghetto children for 20 years and my experience tells me otherwise. ND just isn't a fit for everyone.

#AaronLunch

 

[Classic Irish]

So you're saying that kids that have very little to no chance of succeeding at ND, for a myriad of reasons, should still choose ND? And your experience tells you that?

Aaron Lunch, Davonte Neal, Johnnie Willams, Justin Furgeson, Rishad Kinlaw, and a HOST of others disagree. I'm curious to heart your rebuttal and your experience that tells you otherwise. Like I said, I worked with barrio/ghetto children for 20 years and my experience tells me otherwise. ND just isn't a fit for everyone.

If a kid has the grades and taken the prerequisites to earn admission to Stanford and ND (e.g. foreign language, math/pre-calc, etc...), then it's rather unlikely that they have little chance to succeed academically at those institutions. And many of the names you mention left ND for reasons other than academic.

I also think that a number of high school athletes turn down Stanford and ND because they want to coast through classes and focus on football. It has nothing to do with being able to do the work---they just don't want to do it because they want to focus on football. IMHO, that is so profoundly misguided.

Again, I think you are one of the best posters on this board and I have a great deal of respect for your opinion, but I'm afraid that we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.

 

[stlnd01]

If a kid has the grades and taken the prerequisites to earn admission to Stanford and ND (e.g. foreign language, math/pre-calc, etc...), then it's rather unlikely that they have little chance to succeed academically at those institutions. And many of the names you mention left ND for reasons other than academic. .

I dunno. I knew kids who came to Notre Dame with great grades and all the pre-reqs who struggled mightily - in some cases dropped out - and they did not have the time commitments, distractions and, frankly, temptations that come with being a football player. Most came from small towns or poorer neighborhoods and didn't have the sort of educational background of their classmates from good suburban or Catholic high schools. In some cases there were cultural hurdles, too, as Notre Dame is predominantly (some times overwhelmingly) upper-middle-class and white.
I think these are the sort of people LA is talking about. Some people from that sort of background will thrive at Notre Dame But not everyone's cut out that way, and I understand why some of them might be more comfortable - and ultimately successful - someplace else. Notre Dame is not for everybody. That's OK.

 

[NDinL.A.]

If a kid has the grades and taken the prerequisites to earn admission to Stanford and ND (e.g. foreign language, math/pre-calc, etc...), then it's rather unlikely that they have little chance to succeed academically at those institutions. And many of the names you mention left ND for reasons other than academic.

I also think that a number of high school athletes turn down Stanford and ND because they want to coast through classes and focus on football. It has nothing to do with being able to do the work---they just don't want to do it because they want to focus on football. IMHO, that is so profoundly misguided.

Again, I think you are one of the best posters on this board and I have a great deal of respect for your opinion, but I'm afraid that we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.

I think we're talking about 2 different things. In your case about ND and Stanford, I agree with you completely. I'm talking about some kids that ND offered and even accepted, clear risks from not only an academic standpoint and social standpoint, that just weren't good fits. That is what I was talking about in my OP. There are kids who SHOULD choose OSU over ND, bc they are simply I'll-equipped to handle it. All good man...I think we agree a little more than we realize.

 

[NDinL.A.]

#AaronLunch

Ha! Posted that from my phone while I pretended to watch my 4 yr old in her gymnastics class. I knew there would be errors but THAT was funny.

 

[BobbyMac]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I received AWESOME news today that <a href="https://twitter.com/Austin_Mack10">@Austin_Mack10</a> will be starting in next Thursday game vs IU so proud of you <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/11AM?src=hash">#11AM</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/zone6?src=hash">#zone6</a> <a href="https://t.co/hqVHTBwf40">pic.twitter.com/hqVHTBwf40</a></p>— Shannon Mack (@ShannonMack4) <a href="https://twitter.com/ShannonMack4/status/901153940577951744">August 25, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[koonja]

Along with D Robertson, would be really nice to have Mack on the other side of ESB. I think he's going to be extremely productive in college.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Along with D Robertson, would be really nice to have Mack on the other side of ESB. I think he's going to be extremely productive in college.

Why? Because he's starting for tOSU as a rs freshman? You're kind of going out on a limb there, maybe give us a more sensible prediction. Like you expect the sun to also rise tomorrow?

 

[NDinL.A.]

Allow me to be a prick (again lol):

I'd appreciate it that when this thread gets bumped, it's only for bad news for OSU. Otherwise, who cares.

#friday'smini-rant