'16 CA QB Ian Book (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

Irish YJ

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Ya just gotta watch the film. Book is the sole reason production is being left on the field in enough situations (not all) for it to be an issue. Enough for there to be a lot of questions asked and criticism brought up. His comp pct. is irrelevant when he’s taking 5 yd sacks by running out of bounds (for no reason) or getting 4 yards on a scramble when he has Kmet down the seam for a TD. There are too many dead plays.

I agree he has some bad plays. Are you giving the OL, who has terrible stats, a pass. How about what is at best a mediocre WR group? Claypool is the only decent starter, and he's no Boykin. Do you think PJ erases those issues?
 

Luckylucci

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I agree he has some bad plays. Are you giving the OL, who has terrible stats, a pass. How about what is at best a mediocre WR group? Claypool is the only decent starter, and he's no Boykin. Do you think PJ erases those issues?

Don’t know if PJ is the answer. Haven’t said that. But glossing over Books faults by blaming others is extremely short sighted.

The narrative that it’s our crappy OL and bad RB’s or he’d be playing better seems like a narrative we want to be true. Yet, last week we dominated UVA on the ground. Virginia had only given up 2.17 yards per carry (9th) before this game. ND avg. 5.1 YPC. Did that help Book? We crushed the blitz with the run (scheme and exceptional blocking by both OL and TE’s) and when we asked Book to beat it with the pass, well, he did what? UVA blitzed on 65% of plays and only had nine pressures and two sacks on the day. That’s a lot of plays without pressure where we should have numbers or opportunities. Which there was. This was a very good opportunity for Book to expose an over aggressive defense that wasn’t getting home, with a ground game to support him. Those stats are pulled from Jamie at ISD’s articles. He puts together great stuff. Also, he put up 6.6 yds/att. Yikes.
 

Irish#1

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Books problem is his clock is going off a tad too early. He has to trust the O-line and stay in the pocket just a little bit longer.
 

ThePiombino

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Books problem is his clock is going off a tad too early. He has to trust the O-line and stay in the pocket just a little bit longer.
Maybe if he could see over the line his clock wouldn't be going off prematurely. Can't fix short.

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AllTimeIrish

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A lazy answer but the truth: I'll let the coaching staff that has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know, that sees every single rep thrown by these guys, and that has previously shown that they are willing to pull an under-performing QB make that decision.

Obviously I want PJ to take the starting job. That means he's better than Book, which has exciting implications given his arm and athleticism. But calling for PJ to start or for Book to move on based on the information at hand is basically just wishing that PJ would be better than Book. It's putting the cart before the horse in a way that only fans are capable of doing. We're not comparing Book with PJ, we're comparing Book with our idealized version of PJ that probably does not exist.

The most recent II podcast gave the best comparison by saying that PJ is like Andrew Hendrix when Tommy Rees was our starter. People were clamoring for Hendrix because he had a big arm, was athletic, and had previously shown some flashes of both in scrimmage-like situations. Then he comes in for a whole second half against USC and everyone realized that Rees was the reason we had an offense at all.

Bottom line: There's a reason the starter is the starter and despite what most people on here bemoan it's usually not that the coach feels bad about benching the older kid.

The only problem I have with this post is the straw man argument you used with previous situations, which have nothing to do with the players we have now. As you said, none of us see all of their practice snaps so how would you be able to make this comparison to a past situation without that knowledge?

The one scenario you did not account for in your post is that while PJ may not quite be ready, he is a better overall QB than Book and playing time might be what he needs. The staff may just be waiting for him to cross whatever threshold of consistent performance he needs in practice before they are ready to give him that chance. It may be this year or next year.

I also think it is telling that BOTH backup QBs got time in the same game this year. It appears the coaching staff wants healthy competition there for when the position is open next year. That does not necessarily mean that PJ is no good, but that they want to see what they have in both arms post Book.
 

BabyIrish

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Don’t know if PJ is the answer. Haven’t said that. But glossing over Books faults by blaming others is extremely short sighted.

The narrative that it’s our crappy OL and bad RB’s or he’d be playing better seems like a narrative we want to be true. Yet, last week we dominated UVA on the ground. Virginia had only given up 2.17 yards per carry (9th) before this game. ND avg. 5.1 YPC. Did that help Book? We crushed the blitz with the run (scheme and exceptional blocking by both OL and TE’s) and when we asked Book to beat it with the pass, well, he did what? UVA blitzed on 65% of plays and only had nine pressures and two sacks on the day. That’s a lot of plays without pressure where we should have numbers or opportunities. Which there was. This was a very good opportunity for Book to expose an over aggressive defense that wasn’t getting home, with a ground game to support him. Those stats are pulled from Jamie at ISD’s articles. He puts together great stuff. Also, he put up 6.6 yds/att. Yikes.

Bingo, the OL and WR's are not subpar, not even close. Certainly, the OL has struggled at times but not to the degree it did last year. The lack of production of the Offense rests mostly on the shoulders of Book. He is missing easy plays and easy reads, period.
 

PANDFAN

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The only problem I have with this post is the straw man argument you used with previous situations, which have nothing to do with the players we have now. As you said, none of us see all of their practice snaps so how would you be able to make this comparison to a past situation without that knowledge?

The one scenario you did not account for in your post is that while PJ may not quite be ready, he is a better overall QB than Book and playing time might be what he needs. The staff may just be waiting for him to cross whatever threshold of consistent performance he needs in practice before they are ready to give him that chance. It may be this year or next year.

I also think it is telling that BOTH backup QBs got time in the same game this year. It appears the coaching staff wants healthy competition there for when the position is open next year. That does not necessarily mean that PJ is no good, but that they want to see what they have in both arms post Book.

if PJ doesn't get hurt and was already nursing an injury prior to game, he would likely have played the remaining series and Clark wouldn't have gotten in
 

greyhammer90

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The only problem I have with this post is the straw man argument you used with previous situations, which have nothing to do with the players we have now. As you said, none of us see all of their practice snaps so how would you be able to make this comparison to a past situation without that knowledge?

The one scenario you did not account for in your post is that while PJ may not quite be ready, he is a better overall QB than Book and playing time might be what he needs. The staff may just be waiting for him to cross whatever threshold of consistent performance he needs in practice before they are ready to give him that chance. It may be this year or next year.

I also think it is telling that BOTH backup QBs got time in the same game this year. It appears the coaching staff wants healthy competition there for when the position is open next year. That does not necessarily mean that PJ is no good, but that they want to see what they have in both arms post Book.

The point isn't that PJ = Hendrix, so there's no strawman. The point is that fans often deal in the realm of imagination. That people were calling for Hendrix to get reps is just a good example of how fans often don't know diddly. There are lots of examples of fans calling for the backup without having a clue, Hendrix is just particularly apropos given the main reason people seem to want PJ is because of his deep threat and running game.
 

Luckylucci

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The point isn't that PJ = Hendrix, so there's no strawman. The point is that fans often deal in the realm of imagination. That people were calling for Hendrix to get reps is just a good example of how fans often don't know diddly. There are lots of examples of fans calling for the backup without having a clue, Hendrix is just particularly apropos given the main reason people seem to want PJ is because of his deep threat and running game.

While I agree with everything you've said. How funny is it that his first action of the season we see him dropping a 40+ yd dime to Lenzy? Another guy everyone wants to see the field. Fire meet gasoline, lol.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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The point isn't that PJ = Hendrix, so there's no strawman. The point is that fans often deal in the realm of imagination. That people were calling for Hendrix to get reps is just a good example of how fans often don't know diddly. There are lots of examples of fans calling for the backup without having a clue, Hendrix is just particularly apropos given the main reason people seem to want PJ is because of his deep threat and running game.

Not to argue the particulars, but Hendrix's extremely obvious case of stage fright in the USC game cuts both ways. He probably would have played better if he had gotten some real live reps before that.
 

BobbyMac

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The point isn't that PJ = Hendrix, so there's no strawman. The point is that fans often deal in the realm of imagination. That people were calling for Hendrix to get reps is just a good example of how fans often don't know diddly. There are lots of examples of fans calling for the backup without having a clue, Hendrix is just particularly apropos given the main reason people seem to want PJ is because of his deep threat and running game.

In my case, I don't want Phil because he has a big arm and can run. I want Phil because I've seen countless examples of him dropping 50 yard dimes. He has a big, accurate, experienced arm and a brain that's trained to let that type of play develop.
 

Irish#1

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The point isn't that PJ = Hendrix, so there's no strawman. The point is that fans often deal in the realm of imagination. That people were calling for Hendrix to get reps is just a good example of how fans often don't know diddly. There are lots of examples of fans calling for the backup without having a clue, Hendrix is just particularly apropos given the main reason people seem to want PJ is because of his deep threat and running game.

Of course none of those fans are on IE! lol
 

NDisme

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Ya just gotta watch the film. Book is the sole reason production is being left on the field in enough situations (not all) for it to be an issue. Enough for there to be a lot of questions asked and criticism brought up. His comp pct. is irrelevant when he’s taking 5 yd sacks by running out of bounds (for no reason) or getting 4 yards on a scramble when he has Kmet down the seam for a TD. There are too many dead plays.

This. since game 1 this year he has missed an amazing amount of wide open guys either by locking onto one guy are taking off too early and not letting anything develop.
 

ThePiombino

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Ya just gotta watch the film. Book is the sole reason production is being left on the field in enough situations (not all) for it to be an issue. Enough for there to be a lot of questions asked and criticism brought up. His comp pct. is irrelevant when he’s taking 5 yd sacks by running out of bounds (for no reason) or getting 4 yards on a scramble when he has Kmet down the seam for a TD. There are too many dead plays.

Glad you mentioned this seemingly lost fact. If anyone isn't convinced that Book ain't right, please explain the bolded. I'll wait.

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BobbyMac

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Glad you mentioned this seemingly lost fact. If anyone isn't convinced that Book ain't right, please explain the bolded. I'll wait.

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I had a stroke on that play.

There is nothing better than making a handful of their defenders give pursuit so they can get a hit on the QB and then tossing the ball out of bounds at the last moment. Book just didn't get the memo. How do QB's not know to do this? As soon they are outside the tackle box, start doing the geometry. If you aren't getting back to the LOS, toss it out of bounds and on to the next down.

It's just unacceptable.
 

jspags10pg

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Glad you mentioned this seemingly lost fact. If anyone isn't convinced that Book ain't right, please explain the bolded. I'll wait.

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He did it quite a bit last year too. He scrambles and loses a couple yards by running out of bounds instead of just flipping the ball out of bounds.

I really like Ian and I think he can overcome the issues he's having but the whole running out of bounds behind the LOS thing has always irked me since last season.

I haven't given up on him but he really needs to settle down and just play ball and trust his eyes like he did last year pre-Northwestern.
 

AllTimeIrish

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The point isn't that PJ = Hendrix, so there's no strawman. The point is that fans often deal in the realm of imagination. That people were calling for Hendrix to get reps is just a good example of how fans often don't know diddly. There are lots of examples of fans calling for the backup without having a clue, Hendrix is just particularly apropos given the main reason people seem to want PJ is because of his deep threat and running game.

That was the basis for your entire argument, and you lacked the information about the current player to make it.

Nobody out here knows what PJ is going to be. Picking random players from previous teams doesn't have an bearing on how he will perform.

Let's see what he has on the field when the coaching staff deems him ready.
 

T-Boone

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The way I would handle Phil is give him a full half against BG and then try to get him in for even more time against some old rope like Michigan.
 

Luckylucci

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I had a stroke on that play.

There is nothing better than making a handful of their defenders give pursuit so they can get a hit on the QB and then tossing the ball out of bounds at the last moment. Book just didn't get the memo. How do QB's not know to do this? As soon they are outside the tackle box, start doing the geometry. If you aren't getting back to the LOS, toss it out of bounds and on to the next down.

It's just unacceptable.

And if that wasn’t bad enough. The pressure came from the right and all he had to do was look left for an easy 5 yd completion to Tremble.
 

Jimmy3Putt

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Book takes 1 yard sacks along the side line more than any other quarterback I've ever seen.
Why doesn't he flip those out of bounds?
 

Luckylucci

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Book was a gamer tonight. Can’t talk to much trash towards him. When you miss plays but then make up for it, it’s even. He was not great. But he was clutch.

On a re-watch I’m sure I’ll see something bu that dude came to play tonight and it meant a lot to him. Good on him for a W. The spread doesn’t matter to these kids. A victory does
 

Riddickulous

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Book was a gamer tonight. Can’t talk to much trash towards him. When you miss plays but then make up for it, it’s even. He was not great. But he was clutch.

On a re-watch I’m sure I’ll see something bu that dude came to play tonight and it meant a lot to him. Good on him for a W. The spread doesn’t matter to these kids. A victory does

Not a very good performance overall but he really came through in the clutch. Gotta give him props for that.
 
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