'14 OH QB DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame Signee)

[Irish YJ]

Typical Football fan. The Back up QB is the shinning star. Come on GK you are smarter than this. Yes over time he might be better but he has played all of 10 plays.

He's got to start somewhere/sometime, and he will be in his 3rd year. I'm not saying BW is or will be better, but DK is more than likely gone after this season. IMO, it's OK for folks to be "ready" for the BW years, especially if we have a new HC next year.

 

[gkIrish]

Typical Football fan. The Back up QB is the shinning star. Come on GK you are smarter than this. Yes over time he might be better but he has played all of 10 plays.

I literally never wanted Malik to play over Golson and have never called for Malik to start over Kizer. My opinion of Wimbush has nothing to do with Kizer, who I like very much. Not saying Wimbush should be starting over Kizer, this year. I'm saying I think he will be a better college player in the long run.

 

[stlnd01]

Kizer should stay.
He's got all the tools. But he still needs work. Too many mistakes. He gets visibly rattled under pressure. Hangs on to the ball too long. Misses reads. All of this is very fixable, and I'm sure some NFL teams would be happy to fix it. But they're not going to make him a top-ten pick to do it, because those guys need to play right away, and he's not there yet.
TBH I'd be surprised at this point if he's a first-rounder. And if he's not, he's far better off staying. Especially if Sanford sticks around.

 

[gkIrish]

Kizer should stay.
He's got all the tools. But he still needs work. Too many mistakes. He gets visibly rattled under pressure. Hangs on to the ball too long. Misses reads. All of this is very fixable, and I'm sure some NFL teams would be happy to fix it. But they're not going to make him a top-ten pick to do it, because those guys need to play right away, and he's not there yet.
TBH I'd be surprised at this point if he's a first-rounder. And if he's not, he's far better off staying. Especially if Sanford sticks around.

I think you are way off and the "experts" agree with me. He is a top 10 pick on most mocks right now.

 

[IrishBroker]

I think you are way off and the "experts" agree with me. He is a top 10 pick on most mocks right now.

Yeah, he's outta here.

I'd jump outta this dumpster fire as well. Especially if BK ends up getting the boot (I know it's a long shot with the contract and all...but you never know if we finish up with only 3 wins)

Kizer is gone if he gets 1st round grades (which he will)

 

[kmoose]

I think you are way off and the "experts" agree with me. He is a top 10 pick on most mocks right now.

Do those mocks include the last two ND games?

 

[Irish Insanity]

Do those mocks include the last two ND games?

IIRC Kiper didn't have Kizer I'm the first round until he released his updated mock after the NCST game

 

[stlnd01]

I think you are way off and the "experts" agree with me. He is a top 10 pick on most mocks right now.

How were Jimmy Clausen and Brady Quinn's mock drafts looking about this time in their last season?
They'd done a lot more than he had and both fell hard by April.
October mock drafts are about clicks, that's all.

 

[irishff1014]

I think you are way off and the "experts" agree with me. He is a top 10 pick on most mocks right now.

He isn't ready for the NFL they will eat him alive unless he doesn't star for a season or 2.

 

[IrishLax]

I think you are way off and the "experts" agree with me. He is a top 10 pick on most mocks right now.

I will bet any amount of real money that he isn't drafted in the top 10.*

*Unless he has a miracle turnaround over these last five games.

 

[gkIrish]

Do those mocks include the last two ND games?

I checked two different ones updated today and they did.

 

[gkIrish]

I will bet any amount of real money that he isn't drafted in the top 10.*

*Unless he has a miracle turnaround over these last five games.

I mean your caveat basically makes my prediction/assumption moot. I am betting that he does turn it around and confirms what the scouts have seen in the last 1.5 years and that the last couple of games were outliers.

 

[kmoose]

I checked two different ones updated today and they did.

That surprises me. He clearly didn't play well on Saturday. The other game was a hurricane, so I don't think you take much from that. But he clearly showed some weaknesses against Stanford. But like I said, earlier........... that appeared to all be psychological, and NFL teams have armies of really good shrinks.

ETA: Despite the fact that it surprises me, I am happy for DeShone that he is being rated so high.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I will bet any amount of real money that he isn't drafted in the top 10.*

*Unless he has a miracle turnaround over these last five games.

Why do you dislike Deshone so much?

This team, literally, has 99 problems. But he isn't one.

 

[IrishLax]

Why do you dislike Deshone so much?

This team, literally, has 99 problems. But he isn't one.

Oh, he's definitely one. The only QB that Stanford has faced that has graded out worse was a dude that got hurt for Kansas State. Like I said a week ago in the whole debate in the McGlinchey thread he has a lot of talent... but going back and looking at game logs and how he's actually performed, I don't know if there's ever been a more overhyped player than Kizer. He's really not playing at anything close to a high level right now.

 

[Armyirish47]

Oh, he's definitely one. The only QB that Stanford has faced that has graded out worse was a dude that got hurt for Kansas State. Like I said a week ago in the whole debate in the McGlinchey thread he has a lot of talent... but going back and looking at game logs and how he's actually performed, I don't know if there's ever been a more overhyped player than Kizer. He's really not playing at anything close to a high level right now.

True, but the NFL is going to draft based on potential, and he checks all the boxes for superstar. If he is hot garbage down the stretch it might knock him down, but with the current CBA hitting a lottery ticket with Kizer in the Top 10 is way more valuable than waiting for better tape.

 

[stlnd01]

True, but the NFL is going to draft based on potential, and he checks all the boxes for superstar. If he is hot garbage down the stretch it might knock him down, but with the current CBA hitting a lottery ticket with Kizer in the Top 10 is way more valuable than waiting for better tape.

If Kizer could enter the draft knowing he'd get picked by a good franchise where he could sit behind a Brady or Rogers for a couple of years and learn before inheriting the starting job, then going pro would make all the sense in the world. But it doesn't work that way. Most top ten picks are expected to produce right away. And he just doesn't look NFL ready yet.

 

[Armyirish47]

If Kizer could enter the draft knowing he'd get picked by a good franchise where he could sit behind a Brady or Rogers for a couple of years and learn before inheriting the starting job, then going pro would make all the sense in the world. But it doesn't work that way. Most top ten picks are expected to produce right away. And he just doesn't look NFL ready yet.

Under the old CBA I would agree, but the most valuable asset in football right now is a quarterback on a rookie scale contract. Say what you want about the Rams, but they burned a #1 pick on a lottery ticket with Goff, and are just fine letting him grow behind Case Keenum because it is cost effective (and Goff may not good at the football). Just looking at the potential Top 10 and how many need QBs of the future (Browns, 49ers, Jets?, Bears?), 3 of them have significant cap space next year and could easily follow this equation:

Draft Kizer early for cheap + go on a living spree + have veteran for a year - fan happiness = hope

You still have your QB of the future for a minimum of 3 years at super cheap price comparatively. And if he stinks, you can cut bait without crippling your cap. Lather rinse and repeat (also known as "Being the Browns" *sorry Acamp*)

 

[pkt77242]

Oh, he's definitely one. The only QB that Stanford has faced that has graded out worse was a dude that got hurt for Kansas State. Like I said a week ago in the whole debate in the McGlinchey thread he has a lot of talent... but going back and looking at game logs and how he's actually performed, I don't know if there's ever been a more overhyped player than Kizer. He's really not playing at anything close to a high level right now.

A caveat to that is that Stanford got their best CB back for the game against ND, who had missed the past few weeks.

 

[IrishLax]

2nd down sack that basically ended the game, inside receiver is open and he should let the ball go at the end of his drop. I don't understand what he could've been looking at not to throw it. Compare to the throw he made to Hunter against Texas where he got targeted... fit that in to an incredibly tight window, threw it on time. I don't understand why he is regressing.

 

[GBdomer]

2nd down sack that basically ended the game, inside receiver is open and he should let the ball go at the end of his drop. I don't understand what he could've been looking at not to throw it. Compare to the throw he made to Hunter against Texas where he got targeted... fit that in to an incredibly tight window, threw it on time. I don't understand why he is regressing.

IMO, he has zero confidence right now. He knows he doesn't have a running game so he's gotta be Superman on every play. For the life of me I don't understand how we don't have a fcking run game. But besides last year when have we under BK? Not for the lack of talent

 

[IrishLax]

IMO, he has zero confidence right now. He knows he doesn't have a running game so he's gotta be Superman on every play. For the life of me I don't understand how we don't have a fcking run game. But besides last year when have we under BK? Not for the lack of talent

2012 had a top 10 run game. 2013 and 2014 were not great.

 

[tko]

He's not even seeing that receiver. All he is thinking about is where to scramble. What's up with his left shoulder btw?

 

[GBdomer]

2012 had a top 10 run game. 2013 and 2014 were not great.

We did? Had no idea, ok two good years then.

 

[IrishLax]

He's not even seeing that receiver. All he is thinking about is where to scramble. What's up with his left shoulder btw?

He literally starts panicking at the back of his drop despite the receiver being open and him having a clean pocket... instead of just planting his foot and delivering the ball. No concept of timing. He did a great job last year standing tall in the pocket. I don't get it.

 

[BobbyMac]

2nd down sack that basically ended the game, inside receiver is open and he should let the ball go at the end of his drop. I don't understand what he could've been looking at not to throw it. Compare to the throw he made to Hunter against Texas where he got targeted... fit that in to an incredibly tight window, threw it on time. I don't understand why he is regressing.

Problem here is he should have only dropped 2, planted and fired to ESB on his break when he was open. The third step takes ESB out of the equation and it also puts him back towards where Bars pushed the DE. He then slides up into a crappy poket that gets collapsed. A good dual threat QB would have instantly recognized it and ran into the gap on the left side between McG and Q and gotten at worst, close to a first down.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

2nd down sack that basically ended the game, inside receiver is open and he should let the ball go at the end of his drop. I don't understand what he could've been looking at not to throw it. Compare to the throw he made to Hunter against Texas where he got targeted... fit that in to an incredibly tight window, threw it on time. I don't understand why he is regressing.

Only thing is we don't know who the primary and secondary reads are on that play.

Then the picket collapses.

The oline has been able to pass block this year, except for the Stanford game, he might have been hearing foot steps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

2nd down sack that basically ended the game, inside receiver is open and he should let the ball go at the end of his drop. I don't understand what he could've been looking at not to throw it. Compare to the throw he made to Hunter against Texas where he got targeted... fit that in to an incredibly tight window, threw it on time. I don't understand why he is regressing.

Zero idea why he's regressing?

1) He is throwing to highly inexperienced receiving corps.

2) He has an awful defense, forcing him into shootout situations, or come from behind situations

3) He has a running game that has regressed much more substantially than "he has" (according to you)

4) He is only getting 60% of snaps in practice.... Going on a limb in guessing Brandon was getting 40% last year.

5) He has a coach openly telling the press that his job as qb isn't safe.

6) He has a coach breathing down his neck that is willing to pull him out for throwing just two ints in one game... The second of which came off a horrible play call by the head coach himself.

There's a nice start for you, since you apparently have "zero idea" why he's not perfect.

 

[pkt77242]

Kizer has struggled all year with finding his TE and his RB underneath when there is pressure. He is really good with keeping his eyes downfield but he doesn't change where he is looking when he gets pressure.

 

[IrishLax]

Zero idea why he's regressing?

1) He is throwing to highly inexperienced receiving corps.

2) He has an awful defense, forcing him into shootout situations, or come from behind situations

3) He has a running game that has regressed much more substantially than "he has" (according to you)

4) He is only getting 60% of snaps in practice.... Going on a limb in guessing Brandon was getting 40% last year.

5) He has a coach openly telling the press that his job as qb isn't safe.

6) He has a coach breathing down his neck that is willing to pull him out for throwing just two ints in one game... The second of which came off a horrible play call by the head coach himself.

There's a nice start for you, since you apparently have "zero idea" why he's not perfect.

Sooooo insightful.

1) Completely irrelevant, unless your premise is that the WRs are bad. In the clip posted above, sure looks like ESB wins on his route just fine... and the group of WRs hasn't changed since week 1 where he was great, has it?

2) Defense was the problem this week? Interesting. Also, sure didn't seem to affect him against Texas. Not sure how his defense affects his ability to throw on time... sure is a puzzling one...

3) Hey, this one actually makes sense! His regression also isn't "according to me" it's according to every objective grading scale out there. You want to provide evidence he's playing better now than he did at the start of the year?

4) Wimbush did not get 40% of snaps in practice last year, I'm guessing you meant to say "wasn't"... considering he split reps 50/50 in fall camp doesn't explain why he is getting progressively worse this year.

5) So he's mentally soft? I guess that does make sense. Also, not exactly true... only said something even remotely close to that immediately after Duke and then a day later said he was the starter.

6) Yeah, totally Kelly's fault on those two picks. And all the other terrible throws (and non-throws) he made in the game. Totally.

I raised a reasonable point about the fact that he is playing progressively worse as the year goes on, and the only one that even passes the sniff test is teams keying more on the pass as they don't fear the running game. Good effort, tho.