'11 NY OLB Ishaq Williams (Signed ND LOI-EE)

Irish YJ

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According to his parent even if there was no scholarship available he would pay his own way.

I was wondering this. Tells me a lot about his, and his family's frame of mind.

I would say that using the word "solid" is a stretch. He's basically been a body on the line, and one sack in three seasons tells the story. He has no motor and plays with very little passion. Combine that with one year away from the field, and it doesnt look pretty.

Believe me, Ive wanted him to succeed since he signed, and I've held onto hope that he'd live up to his 5 star status. I just think the ship has sailed and anyone that thinks he'll be solid or great is still holding on to that dream too.

With that being said, if he does come back. I'll cheer him on and hope that he turns the corner. I just have no faith.

See below. He was never utilized to his strengths. Not saying he would be the breakout of the year, but I believe he'd be more than solid at his natural position with the right coaching.

The problem with Ishaq is he was a square peg in a round hole at LB. He also had an NFL caliber player in Shembo in front of him. He was poised to start 2014 as a starting DE, a more natural fit for him with his hand in the dirt every play rather than having to worry about coverages and other things he didn't excel at. I think he could have had a break out year in 2014 had he played, now we may never know.
 

NDinL.A.

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Care to go into more detail?

I can't really go too deep without burning the guys who told me, but I will say that 3 different people (who don't know each other) told me from the jump that Ishaq's academic troubles were the worst of the Frozen 5. This is like in August/Sept of last year. And a couple of months ago I was told the same thing, and that he (my friend) didn't think he would be eligible to play anywhere this year, much less ND.

And BK's statements and other reports have me thinking 100% that my friend had it right.
 

stlnd01

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I would say that using the word "solid" is a stretch. He's basically been a body on the line, and one sack in three seasons tells the story. He has no motor and plays with very little passion. Combine that with one year away from the field, and it doesnt look pretty.

Ishaq may not be the most demonstrative guy on the field but I don't know how you or I determine the level of "passion" a kid plays with. And he was a bit more than "a body on the line," especially in 2013. He was pretty good at collapsing the pocket on pass plays, and helped cause a lot of sacks that were finished by Tuitt and Shembo.

But, yeah, he's clearly not lived up to early hopes, for all the reasons laid out by others. Still, if last year taught us anything it's that D line depth is a big deal. Ishaq's been around the block a few times and has something to prove. I'd love to see him back.
 

Voltaire

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Ishaq is the Ted Williams of running stiffly and awkwardly 5 yards past the quarterback in that he seems to do it about 40% of the time he's on the field.
 

Booslum31

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I keep opening this thread hoping to see some specifics of what he is doing to work his way back. Seeing a Pic of him watching Pro Day isn't close to what we need to be hearing/seeing at this point...hell, we don't even know what he has done to improve his situation since he got the boot. This leads me to believe that he has done nothing of consequence. Communicating with the University through a third person (which is wierd to me) is also an indication he isn't coming back. Good luck to him, I wish him well.
 

ThePiombino

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I can't really go too deep without burning the guys who told me, but I will say that 3 different people (who don't know each other) told me from the jump that Ishaq's academic troubles were the worst of the Frozen 5. This is like in August/Sept of last year. And a couple of months ago I was told the same thing, and that he (my friend) didn't think he would be eligible to play anywhere this year, much less ND.

And BK's statements and other reports have me thinking 100% that my friend had it right.
Any idea how the NCAA ticker is affected? Could he be eligible to attempt a return in 2016 if he gets his academics in order before then?
 

stlnd01

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Any idea how the NCAA ticker is affected? Could he be eligible to attempt a return in 2016 if he gets his academics in order before then?

He'd be past the "five years to play four" timetable by then - though I don't know how that applies in this sort of situation - and it's hard to imagine a guy actually making it back after two years out of the program. Feels like this season or nothing for him.

But I guess what I don't quite understand is that it seems like once you're in school, and especially by the time you're a junior or senior or whatever Ishaq was academically by the spring/summer of 2014 when this went down, your academic situation is between you and your school. There aren't NCAA requirements for a minimum GPA, right? So if he wants to transfer somewhere else, academically/NCAA-wise, why couldn't he?
And if he needs to re-establish his eligibility for admissions to Notre Dame, what is he supposed to do back home at Kings County Community College that would be relevant? I can't imagine there are many classes that would transfer for a upperclassman philosophy major.
Obviously we don't know the details of Ishaq's academic situation, and since every individual case is largely at the discretion of the school, maybe he's not impressing the right people with his effort. But the guy's served his time. And if the door is in fact still open (as it appears to be for KVR) it's a bit unclear from outside what it is that he's supposed to be doing to get back in.
 

NDinL.A.

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He'd be past the "five years to play four" timetable by then - though I don't know how that applies in this sort of situation - and it's hard to imagine a guy actually making it back after two years out of the program. Feels like this season or nothing for him.

But I guess what I don't quite understand is that it seems like once you're in school, and especially by the time you're a junior or senior or whatever Ishaq was academically by the spring/summer of 2014 when this went down, your academic situation is between you and your school. There aren't NCAA requirements for a minimum GPA, right? So if he wants to transfer somewhere else, academically/NCAA-wise, why couldn't he?
And if he needs to re-establish his eligibility for admissions to Notre Dame, what is he supposed to do back home at Kings County Community College that would be relevant? I can't imagine there are many classes that would transfer for a upperclassman philosophy major.
Obviously we don't know the details of Ishaq's academic situation, and since every individual case is largely at the discretion of the school, maybe he's not impressing the right people with his effort. But the guy's served his time. And if the door is in fact still open (as it appears to be for KVR) it's a bit unclear from outside what it is that he's supposed to be doing to get back in.

The NCAA requires that a player has a minimum amounts of units/credits per year of his eligibility. This is to prevent a senior at a school to have only like 28 credits to his name (of course, schools get around this with powder-puff classes designed for athletes, or have tutors write papers for players, etc etc).

It is my understanding that Ishaq lost quite a few units due to the cheating scandal. And unlike Kavarai, who is enrolled in another school and doing everything he can to get back to ND, Ishaq has not been in school. Now, IF my info is right (it could very well be wrong), then I could see how Ishaq would be ineligible per NCAA standards because he does not have enough units per his season of eligibility.

Does that make sense?
 

Irish YJ

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The NCAA requires that a player has a minimum amounts of units/credits per year of his eligibility. This is to prevent a senior at a school to have only like 28 credits to his name (of course, schools get around this with powder-puff classes designed for athletes, or have tutors write papers for players, etc etc).

It is my understanding that Ishaq lost quite a few units due to the cheating scandal. And unlike Kavarai, who is enrolled in another school and doing everything he can to get back to ND, Ishaq has not been in school. Now, IF my info is right (it could very well be wrong), then I could see how Ishaq would be ineligible per NCAA standards because he does not have enough units per his season of eligibility.

Does that make sense?

Hey LA or anyone, how does his willingness to pay his own way impact all of this?
 

BGIF

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Hey LA or anyone, how does his willingness to pay his own way impact all of this?

Yes, from an NCAA viewpoint. IF he's paying his own way, he's not on scholarship and thus not subject to the rules regarding maintaining NCAA scholarship eligibility.

The NCAA initially certifies HS prospects eligible for an NCAA scholarship. Once admitted the student athlete, SA, must stay academically eligible AND make progress towards earning a degree.

A minimum of 6 credits a semester is required and must meet minimum grade-point average requirements that are related to an institution’s own GPA standards for graduation. Div 1 SAs must complete 40% of their credit requirements by the end of their second year. 60% by the end of the third. 80% by the fourth year thus being on track to graduate in the NCAA five year scholarship window.

I not aware of what details NDinL.A. knows. IF Ishaq lost enough credits to drop below the required Rate of Progress he would have an NCAA eligibility issue.

SAs who flunked out or who were suspended/ejected for an NCAA violation have to be re-certified by the NCAA for scholarship eligibility. The NCAA reviews each case individually AND there are waivers available. The SA has to go through a Student Athlete Re-Admission, SAR, that an NCAA process in addition to a school's re-admission process. This might be what Kelly was talking about when he said there were other things that Ishaq had to do to get back.

IF he came back as a walk-on the progress requirement becomes moot as that applies to NCAA scholarship SAs.


Another poster asked about the revelance of taking community colege courses as they likely would not transfer for an ND upperclassman philosophy major. That's reasonable but taking courses while out of school would show his commitment to education. And, IF he lost credits due to a second party proof reader/editor, taking composition type courses could demonstrate an ability to do his own work. Further, reading between the lines of Manny's response Ishaq MAY have lost underclassman credits that he might be able to re-earn.


Remaining Eligible: Academics | NCAA Home Page - NCAA.org

Student-Athlete Reinstatement | NCAA Home Page - NCAA.org
 
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ThePiombino

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The NCAA requires that a player has a minimum amounts of units/credits per year of his eligibility. This is to prevent a senior at a school to have only like 28 credits to his name (of course, schools get around this with powder-puff classes designed for athletes, or have tutors write papers for players, etc etc).

It is my understanding that Ishaq lost quite a few units due to the cheating scandal. And unlike Kavarai, who is enrolled in another school and doing everything he can to get back to ND, Ishaq has not been in school. Now, IF my info is right (it could very well be wrong), then I could see how Ishaq would be ineligible per NCAA standards because he does not have enough units per his season of eligibility.

Does that make sense?
Yes, thanks.
 

Big23Head

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Eric Hansen SBT: Ishaq Williams' situation appears to be moving toward resolution

SOUTH BEND — A visit last week to Notre Dame’s Pro Day by exiled defensive end Ishaq Williams didn’t yield any clarity for Irish head football coach Brian Kelly about Williams’ intentions for the future.

But at least now there is the commitment to meet later this month to sort that out.

“All we had a chance to say was, ‘Hello and how you doing?’ But we did not have a chance to talk further.

“He’s going to be back up here after the spring game (April 18), and I’ll get more of a chance to spend some time. He was short on time. He had to get back to Chicago for a prior commitment.”

Williams, cornerback KeiVarae Russell, linebacker Kendall Moore and wide receiver DaVaris Daniels were pulled from the Irish roster on Aug. 15 as part of the school's academic dishonesty investigation. Backup safety Eilar Hardy joined them in limbo when he was added to the probe on Aug. 29.

Only Hardy, of those five, returned to play in the 2014 season. He participated in ND's final five games of the season, making nine tackles. Russell and Williams are the only two in play to suit up for the Irish in 2015, though Williams’ path to return remains muddled.

“I think what we’ll try to really get some clarity on is what his intentions are academically more than anything else,” Kelly said of the impending meeting with the 6-foot-6, 271-pound senior from Brooklyn. N.Y.

“(There are) things that he’ll have to take care of in the summertime just to get the ball moving for his ability to be reinstated.”

That’s reinstatement for football by meeting NCAA standards. Williams, like Russell, is expected to be eligible for reinstatement as a student at Notre Dame in June. Russell, attending classes this semester at the University of Washington in his home state, appears to be clear of any NCAA hurdles.


Hardy, meanwhile, said he will transfer to Bowling Green in May, after getting his ND degree, for his fifth and final season of eligibility. Moore’s eligibility lapsed at the end of the 2014 season. And with degree already in hand, he’ll make a run at getting into an NFL camp.

Daniels said March 31 at Pro Day that there was an avenue for him to return to Notre Dame but that it was complicated and in January decided to enter the 2015 NFL Draft. He said he never considered transferring to another school to play out his remaining college eligibility.

Williams, a former five-star prospect and a projected starter in 2014 until his suspension, watched Daniels and Moore and nine other former teammates audition for NFL scouts and personnel types at ND’s Pro Day on March 31.

Until that point, Williams and Kelly had no direct contact this semester, per the coach. And Kelly wondered aloud last month if Williams really wanted to return.

A text message to the South Bend Tribune from Williams’ father, Shaun, in early March stated Ishaq Williams definitely wanted to return to Notre Dame.

A grad school-style transfer, with immediately eligibility at another FBS school, isn’t open to Williams at the end of the spring semester, since he won’t have yet secured his degree. He could transfer down a level, to an FCS school, for example, but the NCAA’s ruling on his game-day eligibility would presumably follow him there.

The NCAA’s jurisdiction in Williams’ possible return only affects his game-day status. It’s possible he could return, finish his degree work at ND, and practice, condition and lift with the team without a guarantee of being able to play in the fall.


Despite Williams having made just one career start and with a modest one career sack in his ND career, the converted outside linebacker is still very much on the radar of NFL teams and, more immediately, would be in position to help an Irish defensive line in 2015 that is limited on edge pass-rushers with experience.
 

Irishnuke

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I doubt he ever gets any serious minutes in the NFL. Maybe a training camp invite.
 

brewdog_14527

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So, is he definitely not coming back? I knew it was a long shot, but wasn't sure if it had been finalized.
 

Irish YJ

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I don't think anything is final. By everything I read, he wants to come back, so much he'll even pay his own tuition. Challenge is he's got work to do to get re-accepted. Guessing it will drag into the summer before we get a final word.
 

pkt77242

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Drafttek 2015 NFL Draft Mock Draft | Round 7 Picks 218-256 |

The last pick in the 7th round of this mock draft is Ishaq. I know that this is speculative, but has anything been finalized with him with regard to ND? I know that he would be finishing up his senior year, and I think that he is eligible to be drafted without doing anything (workout, interview or declare anything).

I am pretty sure that he can't be picked in the NFL draft as he didn't declare and hasn't graduated. Now he could possibly try to enter the supplemental draft.
 

longliveautrydenson

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Assuming he gets re-admitted, is it possible for him to play for us next year as a non-scholarship athlete? What about Joe Schmidt?

If we had Ishaq next year I would be ecstatic. He was moved around too much early in his career and should have been playing with his hand on the ground from day one. He also hasn't had the benefit of learning from a true D-line coach like Keith Gilmore. I'm sure I'll be let down in the future, but I still believe in Ishaq and would love to see this turn into a redemption story for both he and Keivarae.
 

BGIF

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Assuming he gets re-admitted, is it possible for him to play for us next year as a non-scholarship athlete? What about Joe Schmidt?

If we had Ishaq next year I would be ecstatic. He was moved around too much early in his career and should have been playing with his hand on the ground from day one. He also hasn't had the benefit of learning from a true D-line coach like Keith Gilmore. I'm sure I'll be let down in the future, but I still believe in Ishaq and would love to see this turn into a redemption story for both he and Keivarae.


If you pay your own way and are NCAA eligible you can play. For more on Ishaq see:

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/201...aq-williams-signed-nd-loi-ee.html#post1518386
 

NDdomer2

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still needs the following:

1. Re-admission into ND
2. Significant summer course work to meet NCAA elgibility requirements
 

UmphreakDomer

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A bust is a bust
Of bust of bust
And no one can talk to a bust,
Of bust
That is, of bust
Unless the bust
Is the famous Mister bust!
 

Irish#1

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I hate to say this, but I think this shipped has sailed.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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I hate to say this, but I think this shipped has sailed.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZV4vR2_Znuw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That poor old dog . . .
 

TheOneWhoKnocks

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Sbnation has him listed as 268th best player still available. Daniels,Koyack 249,250. I'll just assume Williams listing is an error.
 

Big23Head

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Sampson spoke with Ishaq's dad. The plan is still to return to ND, they have not heard about re-admittance yet and notifications are supposed to leave ND on the 25th of this month at the latest. When comparing KVR and Ishaq's situations, Sampson commented the contact with the coaching staff may be due to one player being much more of a need and motivated player than the other.
 

Irish YJ

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Praying for Ishaq. I'd love to see the kid get one last chance in a system more suited for his talents. More than that, I'd like to see him finish his ND degree.
 

GBdomer

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I've never been more jacked when we landed a recruit so I hope he comes back and puts it all together.
 
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