Pot legalization could save US $13.7 Billion...

[BeauBenken]

I wonder how many people are hoping pot is legalized so the can vaporize it or eat it?

Many, but the ones who do that stuff are probably the "potheads". haha

 

[Black Irish]

LOL now this is something I could see Congress wanting to be part of....the dumbing down of pot.

They could form committees, hold hearings and then develop a whole new division within the Government. After several billion dollars in studies, deliberation and hearings we'd have:

The FBDM..Federal Bureau of Dumb Marijuana

Man, if you think our country craps away a bunch of money dealing with weed enforcement now imagine what a money sucking clusterf**k it will be when Congress legalizes it.

 

[Zwidmanio]

...basically exactly like marijuana in terms of chemcial reaction on the brain and psychadelic experience, except perhaps more potent and lasts for a shorter period of time (so I'm told)...

This is essentially what I was trying to say, poorly I suppose. I was not trying to address chemical reactions and compounds and so forth, but the effect on the user. From what I've read, and I'll dig it up if necessary, the experience for users is stronger than a typical marijuana experience with more serious negative effects on users than marijuana. So as I was saying, in essence, nothing like marijuana.

But ask any regular "smoker" and none will tell you it's as "good" as the real thing, not to mention it tends to be more expensive and doesn't last as long.

Any regular smoker would obviously prefer their "go to" instead of K2, particularly given its nasty side effects. Not sure if that's a great data point but ok. As for the price, I did a little research. I would say, if anything, they're the same price with K2 edging out marijuana as the slightly cheaper product.

Which of course, leads me to wonder: if Spice is supposedly inferior in quality, more expensive, and possibly harmful and untested, why would people buy it over real weed? The only answer can only be either (a) these consumers don't have the same access to real weed as they do Spice, or (b) they're willing to settle because they're afraid of the legality, or both.

So, if we can agree that marijuana users would prefer marijuana and that the "legal" alternative is probably more harmful for them, why not make marijuana available to them instead?

Thus, any case that, at least as far as the U.S. is concerned, legalization and increased availability of marijuana will actually decrease consumption has a very, very tough road to hoe. Because the clear consmer demand for legal cannabinoids says otherwise, as does simple microeconomics (i.e., reduced price = greater quantity demanded).

Is there really a far greater demand than the demand that is currently being met though? The way you've portrayed it, particularly prior to this last post, is that the floodgates will open once legalization occurs. You haven't provided me with enough evidence to suggest that there's a huge suppressed market for marijuana out there. I just see a black market.

Even if it was a wash or if demand increased marginally, which I'll accept for the time being arguendo, what are your compelling reasons to prevent adults from making their own decisions as to what they choose to ingest on their own time?

Additionally, part of your formula includes reduction of price. Why would we assume that it would become cheaper? The government could surely regulate and tax it. We've seen how effectively they've increased the price of tobacco. Would marijuana be different?

 

[Buster Bluth]

I wonder how many people are hoping pot is legalized so the can vaporize it or eat it?

Millions upon millions.

 

[Zwidmanio]

I like how that article acts like prescription drugs don't cause ~20,000 deaths annually anyway. Hell you can list off the "side effects" of many pharmaceutical drugs and get the same "damn that sounds rough" reaction.

Report: Prescription Drug Deaths Skyrocket | Fox News

NO ONE is saying it is a healthy exercise. But it is less harmful than cigarettes and alcohol. It is hypocritical to have cigarettes and alcohol legal if marijuana isn't

Also, that article talked about SMOKING marijuana and its effects on the lungs. What if I use a vaporizer? No smoke. What if I eat it via a brownie??! Definitely no smoke.

Isn't that one of the great ironies of our country? Our politicians, for the longest time, were so frightened to say anything but "just say no!" You couldn't even seriously debate the drug issue. In the meantime, I believe we lead the world in prescription drug use as well as illicit drug use. If we're not at the top, we're right up there.

I think it's about time we try a new policy.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Is there really a far greater demand than the demand that is currently being met though? The way you've portrayed it, particularly prior to this last post, is that the floodgates will open once legalization occurs. You haven't provided me with enough evidence to suggest that there's a huge suppressed market for marijuana out there. I just see a black market.

I think there is a considerable demand. But look at alcohol, when it was legalized usage went up, but because it isn't addictive (productive) people--90% of the population--only drink when they can without impacting their lives. That is to say that you drink on a Friday night and not a Tuesday night, for obvious reasons.

So what more than likely would happen is a certain amount of people who smoked in college (just as they drank themselves silly and yet magically were able to stop when they entered the real world) would partake in smoking on the weekend or whatnot. Using marijuana =/= becoming a pothead. So an increase in usage nationally =/= an increase in potheads. People are, believe it or not, pretty damn responsible. The people who would use marijuana and drive or use marijuana and go to work are doing it regardless of its legality.

Additionally, part of your formula includes reduction of price. Why would we assume that it would become cheaper? The government could surely regulate and tax it. We've seen how effectively they've increased the price of tobacco. Would marijuana be different?

As addressed earlier, marijuana is not a manufactured product. Cigarettes and beer are, thus you can control the price.

For example let's say the government wanted to tax tomatoes at such a ridiculous rate that it was on par with alcohol/tobacco, what would be the result? You wouldn't see the usage of tomatoes decrease per se, you'd see people simply grow their own.

If you tried to tax marijuana a comparable amount to alcohol/tobacco, people would simply grow it and avoid the tax. Making cigarettes is hard (and people are addicted and will not wait for the harvest haha), as is beer/wine/liquor, so the average person simply puts up with the tax.

The real tax revenue is off the industry that hemp would bring. Products, and jobs.

 

[Zwidmanio]

I think there is a considerable demand. But look at alcohol, when it was legalized usage went up, but because it isn't addictive (productive) people--90% of the population--only drink when they can without impacting their lives. That is to say that you drink on a Friday night and not a Tuesday night, for obvious reasons.

So what more than likely would happen is a certain amount of people who smoked in college (just as they drank themselves silly and yet magically were able to stop when they entered the real world) would partake in smoking on the weekend or whatnot. Using marijuana =/= becoming a pothead. So an increase in usage nationally =/= an increase in potheads. People are, believe it or not, pretty damn responsible. The people who would use marijuana and drive or use marijuana and go to work are doing it regardless of its legality.

Well, you don't have to convince me that people can use it responsibly, I accept that fact. However, I'm still not convinced of a huge phantom demand for marijuana that is currently going unfilled. Either way, I don't think we fundamentally disagree. My quote was in response to an argument that, essentially, legalization would unleash a wave of newly created potheads upon the nation, an assertion that I disagree with.

As addressed earlier, marijuana is not a manufactured product. Cigarettes and beer are, thus you can control the price.

For example let's say the government wanted to tax tomatoes at such a ridiculous rate that it was on par with alcohol/tobacco, what would be the result? You wouldn't see the usage of tomatoes decrease per se, you'd see people simply grow their own.

If you tried to tax marijuana a comparable amount to alcohol/tobacco, people would simply grow it and avoid the tax. Making cigarettes is hard (and people are addicted and will not wait for the harvest haha), as is beer/wine/liquor, so the average person simply puts up with the tax.

The real tax revenue is off the in the industry that hemp would bring. Products, and jobs.

I would assume that there would be some tax on it wouldn't you? There's no way that it would be legalized and tax-exempt, so some price control/taxation is inevitable even if we disagree to what extent.

I also realize that you can grow it if you wish, however, I think you discount the difficulty in growing high quality marijuana. It's not as if you can buy some seeds, throw them in the backyard and voila! Thus, you have "Cannabis Colleges" such as Oaksterdam (which was recently shut down by the feds) to teach people how to grow it properly.

I also think a lot of people don't have the time or wherewithal to grow it properly by themselves. A good example of this are the dispensaries in California. I'm sure seeds are available to medical marijuana users and I'm sure some do grow their own, but there's still a huge market for processed buds for the users. The tax revenue from products and jobs is great, but I definitely think that the taxation of smokable marijuana is feasible as well.

 

[RDU Irish]

So Stossel last night asks the room full of FSU students what is easier to score in high school, pot or beer. Maybe two raise their hand for beer and the rest of the room raise their hand for pot.

So legal, regulated alcohol is harder for kids to score than illegal, unregulated pot. Makes sense if you think about it. Someone selling pot has no incentive not to sell to young kids, they take any and all customers since ALL sales are illegal.

Another unpopular guy in the room here. I'm really against it and there's a reason why it's been illegal all this time.

One of my best friends started running around with the wrong crowd and starting smoking weed at least 3 times a day. He was the oldest of all of his siblings and it was really sad to see the impact that it had on them because they looked up to him so much like any sibling would do with an older sibling.

From my view, smoking weed can really bring out the immaturity in people. After awhile, people need to grow up at some point and care about things that really matter. Instead of taking time doing this stupid ****, people should be giving back to their communities and think about how their actions affect younger generations.

This seems to be the primary point behind those who think it should be illegal. You could also change pot to alcohol and this becomes the basis of Prohibition. This is a health issue, not a criminal issue. Plus all of the anti-posts talk about someone they knew who screwed up their life and it is all pot's fault. I disagree, it is the loser idiot's fault for screwing up their life and, legal or not, they were going to find a way to do it. I then argue that more lives are destroyed by over punishing people for getting caught and overly punished for breaking a dumb law.

And don't get me going on gambling, especially poker treated like child trafficking.

 

[Buster Bluth]

The cost of a nation of incarceration - CBS News

I don't know how you can watch this and think that we should be wasting prison space on marijuana users/dealers.

"The Price of Prisons," states that the cost of incarcerating one inmate in Fiscal 2010 was $37,307 per year. "In states like Connecticut, Washington state, New York, it's anywhere from $50,000 to $60,000," he said.

Do you know what you could do in this economy with that kind of wherewithal?!

 

[Cackalacky]

And don't get me going on gambling, especially poker treated like child trafficking.

Tell me about it. We have to take a boat from Little River out into open ocean waters to gamble down here. Ridiculous. They have even gotten rid of "video games."

Sometimes people cant get out of their own way.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...Even if it was a wash or if demand increased marginally, which I'll accept for the time being arguendo, what are your compelling reasons to prevent adults from making their own decisions as to what they choose to ingest on their own time?

...

I don't have any case -- I don't really care if it's legal or not. My only point is that consumption will increase upon decriminalization. If people are fine with that, then let the smoking begin. It's just a shame when advocates for a cause get so over-zealous that they are blind to any potential negative aspects of what they've proposed.

 

[CTIDANDREW]

Just my two cents..

Just my two cents..

I want to preface this by saying, I think of myself as average intelligence, I dont tend to get into discussions with people such as: (Buster, Bob D, Whiskey, and Acamp). I rather just sit back and listen, so I learn. I dont enjoy getting into political issues either, mainly because the American political system confuses the hell out of me. But, legalization of Pot is interesting to me. I'm 20, and have been around Pot for the last couple of years. I personally dont smoke anymore, mainly because I rather spend (weekend) money on alcohol in college. However, I have numerous freinds that do. The one main thing that I want to harp on is that the Drug can change you. The idea of the Gateway theory is in my humble opinion a real thing. I had numerous friends in high school, that were "potheads", but once that high got old to them they moved on to stronger hallucinogen drugs such as (LSD, shrooms...etc). It bothers me because these kids, as Im sure many of you have come across. Are not always low life's, lazy people before the drugs. For me to be satisfied with the legalization of pot, is that there has to be strong education at the middle school/high school level. Just like there is for sex, cigarettes, and alcohol, that although the drug may be harmless at first there can be problems if you over do it. TO Much of any drug is a problem.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I want to preface this by saying, I think of myself as average intelligence, I dont tend to get into discussions with people such as: (Buster, Bob D, Whiskey, and Acamp). I rather just sit back and listen, so I learn. I dont enjoy getting into political issues either, mainly because the American political system confuses the hell out of me. But, legalization of Pot is interesting to me. I'm 20, and have been around Pot for the last couple of years. I personally dont smoke anymore, mainly because I rather spend (weekend) money on alcohol in college. However, I have numerous freinds that do. The one main thing that I want to harp on is that the Drug can change you. The idea of the Gateway theory is in my humble opinion a real thing. I had numerous friends in high school, that were "potheads", but once that high got old to them they moved on to stronger hallucinogen drugs such as (LSD, shrooms...etc). It bothers me because these kids, as Im sure many of you have come across. Are not always low life's, lazy people before the drugs. For me to be satisfied with the legalization of pot, is that there has to be strong education at the middle school/high school level. Just like there is for sex, cigarettes, and alcohol, that although the drug may be harmless at first there can be problems if you over do it. TO Much of any drug is a problem.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Statistics show that users of harder drugs make up only a small fraction of the figure of marijuana users. The facts are that the overwhelming majority of marijuana users will not use harder drugs regularly, or for very long, if at all.

Now, that isn't to say that users of harder drugs don't do marijuana beforehand. That is also true.

But couldn't one argue that prohibition increases the contact with the dealers of harder drugs? It most certainly does.

Also, current laws did not stop your friends, thus they horribly ineffective.

 

[Black Irish]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Statistics show that users of harder drugs make up only a small fraction of the figure of marijuana users. The facts are that the overwhelming majority of marijuana users will not use harder drugs regularly, or for very long, if at all.

Now, that isn't to say that users of harder drugs don't do marijuana beforehand. That is also true.

But couldn't one argue that prohibition increases the contact with the dealers of harder drugs? It most certainly does.

Also, current laws did not stop your friends, thus they horribly ineffective.

I believe the gateway drug theory doesn't hold up if you figure that most of those people were going to do all that stuff anyway. They simply started with the easiest substance to get their hands on, which, when you're in high school is usually beer or weed. Then they move unto harder stuff, nit because of the weed or beer, but because they become more savvy about how to get hold of the hard stuff. Those gateway cases are, IMO, people who would've have done: coke, acid, crank, etc anyway, but they just started with weed because it was easiest to get. If you're a drinker, you probably had Mad Dog 40/40 or Natty Light before you had single malt scotch. But that doesn't mean Mad Dog leads to single malt scotch drinking.

 

[CTIDANDREW]

Buster & BlackIrish

Buster & BlackIrish

You both are spot on. I just dont like the stigma that Pot is completely harmless. In my opinion any drug, done in moderation is fine. But, with the availability and cheapness of pot the youth of today abuse Pot badly. I am most certainly for the legalization of Pot. However, like I said before education is the key. When I was growing up I knew very little about Pot, if it were to become legal I would just like the youth to understand the side effects that do exist.

 

[Buster Bluth]

That is extremely fair.

 

[RDU Irish]

Tell me about it. We have to take a boat from Little River out into open ocean waters to gamble down here. Ridiculous. They have even gotten rid of "video games."

Sometimes people cant get out of their own way.

I would have done the Little River boat last week if the wife wouldn't have gotten in the way!

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Way, WAY too much reading in this thread. Threads about pot should always have short sentences, lots of pictures, and no big words.

After about the third post, all I wanted to do was make a sandwich and go watch cartoons.

Great, now I can't find NDOM...

 

[dshans]

Ready, Set, Go (Irish!!!)! I'll try my damnedest to keep sentences short. All I can offer are vMunchies. vBurgers, vShakes, vPizza and the like.

Marijuana should never have been criminalized. There should be no need to "legalize" it. Regulate, control and tax it like alcohol, tobacco and milk.

Uncontrolled opium use is illegal. Uncontrolled cocaine use is illegal. There are medical uses, though, for their derivatives. Botox is a sanctioned use of a deadly substance.

The war on marijuana was initiated when a "threat" was perceived to the white kids who dug jazz. Smokin' rope was fine when it was primarily a "black thing." The real push came when white, suburban, anti-establishment hippies and anti-war "types" took up its use. These neer-do-wells were enamored with the evolutionary, disruptive Rock and Roll.

Think of home grown weed as a generic, OTC version of Aspirin, Motrin and Aleve.

I look forward to a generic Lipitor.

 

[ACamp1900]

Kill whitey....

 

[ShakeDown]

Ready, Set, Go (Irish!!!)!

Think of home grown weed as a generic, OTC version of Aspirin, Motrin and Aleve.

I look forward to a generic Lipitor.

There is a Rx tetrahydrocannabinol currently, dronabinol (Marinol). Not used much because it's not very effective for pain/nausea/vomiting and has some messed up side effects.

Also, Lipitor has been generic for a while now brotha. It's generic name is atorvastatin.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The war on marijuana was initiated when a "threat" was perceived to the white kids who dug jazz. Smokin' rope was fine when it was primarily a "black thing." The real push came when white, suburban, anti-establishment hippies and anti-war "types" took up its use. These neer-do-wells were enamored with the evolutionary, disruptive Rock and Roll.

So we have you to thank for this terrible policy, Dick?

 

[Black Irish]

Ready, Set, Go (Irish!!!)! I'll try my damnedest to keep sentences short. All I can offer are vMunchies. vBurgers, vShakes, vPizza and the like.

Marijuana should never have been criminalized. There should be no need to "legalize" it. Regulate, control and tax it like alcohol, tobacco and milk.

Uncontrolled opium use is illegal. Uncontrolled cocaine use is illegal. There are medical uses, though, for their derivatives. Botox is a sanctioned use of a deadly substance.

The war on marijuana was initiated when a "threat" was perceived to the white kids who dug jazz. Smokin' rope was fine when it was primarily a "black thing." The real push came when white, suburban, anti-establishment hippies and anti-war "types" took up its use. These neer-do-wells were enamored with the evolutionary, disruptive Rock and Roll.

Think of home grown weed as a generic, OTC version of Aspirin, Motrin and Aleve.

I look forward to a generic Lipitor.

The funny thing is that a good amount of those Beat kids & hippies grew up, got respectable jobs, started families, cut their hair...and still smoke it up.

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

Not all people who smoke are lazy, uneducated, stupid people. And anyone who tells me that someone's life was ruined by pot, then there's underlying issues. People who aren't complete morons to start with can smoke pot and not have any issues in their lives at all because of it.

 

[BeauBenken]

When pot smoking becomes a life style:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WeYsTmIzjkw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

lol