Disturbing trend for Notre Dame?

[irishtrain]

Lets clear the air and talk sense now. These kids dont want to or cant handle the college life experience and bail. They go to other places that allow them to be semi-pro college football players who dont have to adjust and educate themselves. I stand by what Notre Dame is and does. College football needs the Notre Dames of the world to underatand how it should be done. I'm not surprised by any of this and would expect this guy to end up at ohio state or alabama etc-maybe LSU. There he would be allowed to play semi pro football and would be kept eligible for 4 football seasons. After all are'nt they all going to make millions in the real pro league. Watch NBC sports on this subject in a few days and take note that Costas may be on to something. I'd like to see the lid blown off the sham/scam that is college football today. The issue is the schools themselves, how they are run, and what $$$$ the schools are raking in because of the football program-they dont want to change it-its all about the $$$$. So what, a few guys every year are put out on the street with no education that arent good for anything but football-who cares. Notre Dame has chosen a different path and the Tom Lemming/Paul Finebaum/Tony Barnhardt/ and any other blood sucker that makes a living off the college game does not give a damn. As far as I'm concerned Lemming should keep his mouth shut and go back to his silly *** job. At one time I was one who said Notre Dame needs players-guess what I changed my mind Notre Dame needs players who for the most part want to be educated men. If you do it any other way your just minor league pro football like all the other WINNERS of today. Do it right your time will come. Like I said I'd like to see the lid blown off this sham called college football.

 

[GBdomer]

truth hurts. dude is right.

 

[IrishMoore1]

WHAT!? Shepard left?! OMG WTF. This is a dream right? Just a horrible nightmare of a dream that I'm going to wake up from.

 

[NDinFL]

Lets clear the air and talk sense now. These kids dont want to or cant handle the college life experience and bail. They go to other places that allow them to be semi-pro college football players who dont have to adjust and educate themselves. I stand by what Notre Dame is and does. College football needs the Notre Dames of the world to underatand how it should be done. I'm not surprised by any of this and would expect this guy to end up at ohio state or alabama etc-maybe LSU. There he would be allowed to play semi pro football and would be kept eligible for 4 football seasons. After all are'nt they all going to make millions in the real pro league. Watch NBC sports on this subject in a few days and take note that Costas may be on to something. I'd like to see the lid blown off the sham/scam that is college football today. The issue is the schools themselves, how they are run, and what $$$$ the schools are raking in because of the football program-they dont want to change it-its all about the $$$$. So what, a few guys every year are put out on the street with no education that arent good for anything but football-who cares. Notre Dame has chosen a different path and the Tom Lemming/Paul Finebaum/Tony Barnhardt/ and any other blood sucker that makes a living off the college game does not give a damn. As far as I'm concerned Lemming should keep his mouth shut and go back to his silly *** job. At one time I was one who said Notre Dame needs players-guess what I changed my mind Notre Dame needs players who for the most part want to be educated men. If you do it any other way your just minor league pro football like all the other WINNERS of today. Do it right your time will come. Like I said I'd like to see the lid blown off this sham called college football.

Excellent post. (seriously)

The

Tab

Key

Is (or could be)

Your friend

 

[Old Man Mike]

I agree with what Irishtrain said generally, so good on that.

As far as the thread:

1). the Notre Dame offensive roster is loaded with four quarterbacks including the #1a or 1b recruit in the nation. This is a disturbing trend;
2). the ND roster is so packed with talent at RB that people are dreaming up ways to shift some of them to other roles. This is a disturbing trend;
3). the ND roster, with the apparent shift of Niklas to TE has potentially FOUR NFL quality players at that position. This is a disturbing trend;
4). the ND roster, though slightly under-numbered at O-Line, has a situation where three of the following players can't even start: Hegarty, NMartin, Prestwood, Nichols. This is a disturbing trend;
5). the ND roster has so much talent at slot that people are trying to imagine getting more than one slot on the field at the same time. This is a disturbing trend;
...that leaves the two WR positions of which we have "only" one returning starter. The other guy must come from Davaris Daniels, Chris Brown, Justin Ferguson, or possibly Daniel Smith or GAIII. Woe is us! This is a disturbing trend!!

6). the Notre Dame defense roster has a D-Line array that has "legend" written all over it, and added two more this cycle. This is a disturbing trend;
7). the ND roster has so many uber-talented athletes at linebacker that one is being moved to TE so as to give others a chance at a spot --- and, depending on how one sees Okwara [CAT potential along with DE], Baratti [DOG potential along with S], and Slaughter [specialty package], we are still jam-packed and can't get these folks playing time. This is a disturbing trend;
8). the ND roster has two "starting" safeties returning plus two vets, plus several praised redshirts and rookies. Thank the Lord for special teams or they'd never see the field. This is a disturbing trend;
9). So, that leaves cornerback: a never-played-a-down freshman-to-be left the university and went home. THE HOUSE IS COMING DOWN!! We only have Jackson, Wood, Brown, Atkinson, probably Hardy, probably Farley, maybe Prosise to choose from. Naturally we will want to write them all off before ever seeing them on the field. At least one would have been starting anyway.

The Notre Dame roster is so chock full of talent that only an insane moron would see it as somehow mediocre. The entire offense is loaded almost every position. The majority of the defense is loaded at every position except proven cornerback --- something which would be true with or without freshmen.

This talent loading of the Notre Dame roster is a disturbing trend ... BUT FOR WHO???

Great God in Heaven, I'm SO appreciative of the beginning of Spring practice so we can silence moronic topics like this.

 

[NDOM]

I agree with what Irishtrain said generally, so good on that.

As far as the thread:

1). the Notre Dame offensive roster is loaded with four quarterbacks including the #1a or 1b recruit in the nation. This is a disturbing trend;
2). the ND roster is so packed with talent at RB that people are dreaming up ways to shift some of them to other roles. This is a disturbing trend;
3). the ND roster, with the apparent shift of Niklas to TE has potentially FOUR NFL quality players at that position. This is a disturbing trend;
4). the ND roster, though slightly under-numbered at O-Line, has a situation where three of the following players can't even start: Hegarty, NMartin, Prestwood, Nichols. This is a disturbing trend;
5). the ND roster has so much talent at slot that people are trying to imagine getting more than one slot on the field at the same time. This is a disturbing trend;
...that leaves the two WR positions of which we have "only" one returning starter. The other guy must come from Davaris Daniels, Chris Brown, Justin Ferguson, or possibly Daniel Smith or GAIII. Woe is us! This is a disturbing trend!!

6). the Notre Dame defense roster has a D-Line array that has "legend" written all over it, and added two more this cycle. This is a disturbing trend;
7). the ND roster has so many uber-talented athletes at linebacker that one is being moved to TE so as to give others a chance at a spot --- and, depending on how one sees Okwara [CAT potential along with DE], Baratti [DOG potential along with S], and Slaughter [specialty package], we are still jam-packed and can't get these folks playing time. This is a disturbing trend;
8). the ND roster has two "starting" safeties returning plus two vets, plus several praised redshirts and rookies. Thank the Lord for special teams or they'd never see the field. This is a disturbing trend;
9). So, that leaves cornerback: a never-played-a-down freshman-to-be left the university and went home. THE HOUSE IS COMING DOWN!! We only have Jackson, Wood, Brown, Atkinson, probably Hardy, probably Farley, maybe Prosise to choose from. Naturally we will want to write them all off before ever seeing them on the field. At least one would have been starting anyway.

The Notre Dame roster is so chock full of talent that only an insane moron would see it as somehow mediocre. The entire offense is loaded almost every position. The majority of the defense is loaded at every position except proven cornerback --- something which would be true with or without freshmen.

This talent loading of the Notre Dame roster is a disturbing trend ... BUT FOR WHO???

Great God in Heaven, I'm SO appreciative of the beginning of Spring practice so we can silence moronic topics like this.

This is good and all but yet we are still an 8-5 program.........THAT'S a disturbing trend.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Persons who place two inkblots on a blank sheet of paper, draw a line between them, and call that line a "trend" are __________. Fill in the blank as you wish.

 

[Green Mountains]

First ever post. I'm not an alum nor have I ever been to South Bend. I'm simply a life long fan.

I think we have to look at the big picture with Kelly:

2010 - Held the class together. It was not a great class, but in a year of transition, not horrible. Then Matt James tragically dies (that's not on coachs' recruiting)

2011 - Historical class at positions of need. Kelly was focused on DL and got perhaps the best DL class in ND history and the best in the country in 2011.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

First ever post. I'm not an alum nor have I ever been to South Bend. I'm simply a life long fan.

I think we have to look at the big picture with Kelly:

2010 - Held the class together. It was not a great class, but in a year of transition, not horrible. Then Matt James tragically dies (that's not on coachs' recruiting)

2011 - Historical class at positions of need. Kelly was focused on DL and got perhaps the best DL class in ND history and the best in the country in 2011.

Welcome and terrific first post kudos.

 

[Green Mountains]

Sorry...new to this

2011 - Tuitt, huge recruiting win. Lynch, huge recruiting win. Those are saves which are rarely seen. Williams, big win (magic eggs). It looked like the recruiting cycle was going down the tube until the coaches saved it late. We missed out on Prestwood and Carisle. Net, net.......very positive recruiting effort which raised our expectations.

2012 - It was looking a like a historically good class at positions of need again (Cornerback and WR). We had Tee, Darby, Poole might flip, Yuri Wright as fall back. We were in on the Armsteads. It looked unbelievable. The increased expectations from 2011 seemed justified. Then stuff happened. Perkins couldn't muster the academics (not a knock on ND recruiting). Decker was lured by Urban and his former recruiter to the team of his dreams (that's a knock on ND recruiting, small). Darby pulled out (BIG Negative.....did ND not give him enough love?) Poole didn't flip (he always said he won't - not a negative). Yuri lost his mind on Twitter (not a negative for recruiting). DGB visited Houston and decided not to follow his cousin (that's a negative for recruiting - coaches should have know if he was all in ND or not). And the Tee leaves. Was it academics, was it medical? Who knows. Could be a negative, could be neutral, but the facts are not out yet. And then there was the Armsteads saga (just wierd).

But we also flipped Gunner, got Neal in a bizarre recruitment (both net wins). And lets not forget, Prestwood and Carlisle transfer. That's four wins in recruiting (I put Prestwood and Carlisle in 2012 as there were not offically part of 2011).

So where does that leave Kelly and Co on the recruiting front. My view is that is net positive. But the fan base has such high expectation after 2011 and 2012 looked SO good for a while. We expected 2012 needs recruitment at DB to match 2011 needs recruitment at DL. And for most of the cycle it did. Then it fell apart. I'm not placing this all on the coaches, just on the oddities of recruiting 17/18 year old kids.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Sorry...new to this

2011 - Tuitt, huge recruiting win. Lynch, huge recruiting win. Those are saves which are rarely seen. Williams, big win (magic eggs). It looked like the recruiting cycle was going down the tube until the coaches saved it late. We missed out on Prestwood and Carisle. Net, net.......very positive recruiting effort which raised our expectations.

2012 - It was looking a like a historically good class at positions of need again (Cornerback and WR). We had Tee, Darby, Poole might flip, Yuri Wright as fall back. We were in on the Armsteads. It looked unbelievable. The increased expectations from 2011 seemed justified. Then stuff happened. Perkins couldn't muster the academics (not a knock on ND recruiting). Decker was lured by Urban and his former recruiter to the team of his dreams (that's a knock on ND recruiting, small). Darby pulled out (BIG Negative.....did ND not give him enough love?) Poole didn't flip (he always said he won't - not a negative). Yuri lost his mind on Twitter (not a negative for recruiting). DGB visited Houston and decided not to follow his cousin (that's a negative for recruiting - coaches should have know if he was all in ND or not). And the Tee leaves. Was it academics, was it medical? Who knows. Could be a negative, could be neutral, but the facts are not out yet. And then there was the Armsteads saga (just wierd).

But we also flipped Gunner, got Neal in a bizarre recruitment (both net wins). And lets not forget, Prestwood and Carlisle transfer. That's four wins in recruiting (I put Prestwood and Carlisle in 2012 as there were not offically part of 2011).

So where does that leave Kelly and Co on the recruiting front. My view is that is net positive. But the fan base has such high expectation after 2011 and 2012 looked SO good for a while. We expected 2012 needs recruitment at DB to match 2011 needs recruitment at DL. And for most of the cycle it did. Then it fell apart. I'm not placing this all on the coaches, just on the oddities of recruiting 17/18 year old kids.

I don't think DGB was a negative. He straight up lied to the coaching staff the hole time and lied to Kelly the night before signing day.

I'd also add Jones to the list of players that we flipped. Remember he flipped long before all the chaos began at PSU.

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

I agree with what Irishtrain said generally, so good on that.

As far as the thread:

1). the Notre Dame offensive roster is loaded with four quarterbacks including the #1a or 1b recruit in the nation. This is a disturbing trend;
2). the ND roster is so packed with talent at RB that people are dreaming up ways to shift some of them to other roles. This is a disturbing trend;
3). the ND roster, with the apparent shift of Niklas to TE has potentially FOUR NFL quality players at that position. This is a disturbing trend;
4). the ND roster, though slightly under-numbered at O-Line, has a situation where three of the following players can't even start: Hegarty, NMartin, Prestwood, Nichols. This is a disturbing trend;
5). the ND roster has so much talent at slot that people are trying to imagine getting more than one slot on the field at the same time. This is a disturbing trend;
...that leaves the two WR positions of which we have "only" one returning starter. The other guy must come from Davaris Daniels, Chris Brown, Justin Ferguson, or possibly Daniel Smith or GAIII. Woe is us! This is a disturbing trend!!

6). the Notre Dame defense roster has a D-Line array that has "legend" written all over it, and added two more this cycle. This is a disturbing trend;
7). the ND roster has so many uber-talented athletes at linebacker that one is being moved to TE so as to give others a chance at a spot --- and, depending on how one sees Okwara [CAT potential along with DE], Baratti [DOG potential along with S], and Slaughter [specialty package], we are still jam-packed and can't get these folks playing time. This is a disturbing trend;
8). the ND roster has two "starting" safeties returning plus two vets, plus several praised redshirts and rookies. Thank the Lord for special teams or they'd never see the field. This is a disturbing trend;
9). So, that leaves cornerback: a never-played-a-down freshman-to-be left the university and went home. THE HOUSE IS COMING DOWN!! We only have Jackson, Wood, Brown, Atkinson, probably Hardy, probably Farley, maybe Prosise to choose from. Naturally we will want to write them all off before ever seeing them on the field. At least one would have been starting anyway.

The Notre Dame roster is so chock full of talent that only an insane moron would see it as somehow mediocre. The entire offense is loaded almost every position. The majority of the defense is loaded at every position except proven cornerback --- something which would be true with or without freshmen.

This talent loading of the Notre Dame roster is a disturbing trend ... BUT FOR WHO???

Great God in Heaven, I'm SO appreciative of the beginning of Spring practice so we can silence moronic topics like this.

Excellent post. We really have some terrific talent on the roster. I think some are still upset with some of our blue chippers that got away this past recruiting cycle. My only real concern is at Cornerback. This year presents a great opportunity for a couple of guys to step in and rise to the occasion.

 

[IrishLax]

Sorry...new to this

2011 - Tuitt, huge recruiting win. Lynch, huge recruiting win. Those are saves which are rarely seen. Williams, big win (magic eggs). It looked like the recruiting cycle was going down the tube until the coaches saved it late. We missed out on Prestwood and Carisle. Net, net.......very positive recruiting effort which raised our expectations.

2012 - It was looking a like a historically good class at positions of need again (Cornerback and WR). We had Tee, Darby, Poole might flip, Yuri Wright as fall back. We were in on the Armsteads. It looked unbelievable. The increased expectations from 2011 seemed justified. Then stuff happened. Perkins couldn't muster the academics (not a knock on ND recruiting). Decker was lured by Urban and his former recruiter to the team of his dreams (that's a knock on ND recruiting, small). Darby pulled out (BIG Negative.....did ND not give him enough love?) Poole didn't flip (he always said he won't - not a negative). Yuri lost his mind on Twitter (not a negative for recruiting). DGB visited Houston and decided not to follow his cousin (that's a negative for recruiting - coaches should have know if he was all in ND or not). And the Tee leaves. Was it academics, was it medical? Who knows. Could be a negative, could be neutral, but the facts are not out yet. And then there was the Armsteads saga (just wierd).

But we also flipped Gunner, got Neal in a bizarre recruitment (both net wins). And lets not forget, Prestwood and Carlisle transfer. That's four wins in recruiting (I put Prestwood and Carlisle in 2012 as there were not offically part of 2011).

So where does that leave Kelly and Co on the recruiting front. My view is that is net positive. But the fan base has such high expectation after 2011 and 2012 looked SO good for a while. We expected 2012 needs recruitment at DB to match 2011 needs recruitment at DL. And for most of the cycle it did. Then it fell apart. I'm not placing this all on the coaches, just on the oddities of recruiting 17/18 year old kids.

Yup. Good post.

And to expand on your post.... the larger problem, that no one wants to talk about, is that those few misses you mention were also because we were trying to play a cute game with scholarship numbers in the months preceding NSD. Can we fit this guy? What about that guy? What 5th years do we really need?

I think the only error, per se, that our coaches made was being to trusting in the lip service some kids were giving them. I'm not talking about Decker and Perkins... those are debatable decommits at best... I'm talking about Darby, Shephard, and Greenberry. You can still "wish those kids well" while at the same time acknowledging that they f*cked us. If Darby never signs up to begin with, we take Yuri Wright before "twittergate" ever happens. The end. If Greenberry doesn't last second flip on us... I mean seriously.... there were tons of other WR prospects we could've gotten on... namely Amara Darboh who we slowed played straight to Michigan because we didn't think we had any room. And at CB we had no room at the inn for Marcus Rios.... how stupid do we look now with Tee leaving in the first semester?

The bottom line is that this is what happens when you don't oversign (or at least over-recruit). You get burned. If we had Darboh + Rios + Wright signed up people would be saying "darn, we missed out on the #1 class but still got 19 recruits brimming with talent and two 4 CBs."

So I blame the system more than anything and there certainly is no "trend" in play.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Yup. Good post.

And to expand on your post.... the larger problem, that no one wants to talk about, is that those few misses you mention were also because we were trying to play a cute game with scholarship numbers in the months preceding NSD. Can we fit this guy? What about that guy? What 5th years do we really need?

I think the only error, per se, that our coaches made was being to trusting in the lip service some kids were giving them. I'm not talking about Decker and Perkins... those are debatable decommits at best... I'm talking about Darby, Shephard, and Greenberry. You can still "wish those kids well" while at the same time acknowledging that they f*cked us. If Darby never signs up to begin with, we take Yuri Wright before "twittergate" ever happens. The end. If Greenberry doesn't last second flip on us... I mean seriously.... there were tons of other WR prospects we could've gotten on... namely Amara Darboh who we slowed played straight to Michigan because we didn't think we had any room. And at CB we had no room at the inn for Marcus Rios.... how stupid do we look now with Tee leaving in the first semester?

The bottom line is that this is what happens when you don't oversign (or at least over-recruit). You get burned. If we had Darboh + Rios + Wright signed up people would be saying "darn, we missed out on the #1 class but still got 19 recruits brimming with talent and two 4 CBs."

So I blame the system more than anything and there certainly is no "trend" in play.

Lax I really like your thought process and the way you present it. Kudos on another logical and great post.

The staff probably made a mistake on Rios, Darboh and even McNamara, but at the time there was no room...

Edit: Wanted to rep you, but have to spread the wealth around.

 

[Patulski]

The Notre Dame roster is so chock full of talent that only an insane moron would see it as somehow mediocre.

Well, we were 8-5 last year. Due to the fact that most of the players you mentioned in your post (see below) have never played in a college game, your assertion that our roster is "chock full of talent" remains to be seen. Thankfully, the season is only 6 months away.

Hegarty
NMartin
Prestwood
Nichols
Davaris Daniels
Chris Brown
Justin Ferguson
Daniel Smith
Okwara
Baratti
Gholson
Jackson
Brown
Atkinson
Hardy
Farley
Prosise

 

[phork]

8-5

 

[NDinL.A.]

This is good and all but yet we are still an 8-5 program.........THAT'S a disturbing trend.

It's more than that. It's 3-9, 6-6, 7-6, 8-5, 8-5. While you can certainly say it's trending upward (let's pray that it continues), the disturbing trend is mediocrity. That's the bottom line, and it has to change...

 

[Grahambo]

It's more than that. It's 3-9, 6-6, 7-6, 8-5, 8-5. While you can certainly say it's trending upward (let's pray that it continues), the disturbing trend is mediocrity. That's the bottom line, and it has to change...

This is a vital year for BK with next year being a make or break year. He needs a big year with some upset wins. Win games when you aren't supposed to, win big against teams that are inferior, and win the games where it's a toss up. Win, win, and win some more.

He is one of the best at turning 2 and 3 star players into major players. This is a really interesting season.

 

[irishog77]

It's more than that. It's 3-9, 6-6, 7-6, 8-5, 8-5. While you can certainly say it's trending upward (let's pray that it continues), the disturbing trend is mediocrity. That's the bottom line, and it has to change...

I think the artist soon to be formerly known as NDinL.A. nailed it. OMM, the new guy, and Lax all bring up good points (sidenote- we should definitely add Tommy Schutt to that list of "almost" guys as well), but the NDOM's and phork's of the world have a point too. One can be excited with the talent Kelly did ultimately get on campus for this coming year, but also be perfectly justified in claiming the holes/fewer scholarships he ultimately gave is a problem. And 8-5 is certainly better than 6-6 or 3-9, but 8-5 still isn't good enough. As I've said for a while now, I think it's still too early to bestow undue praises on Kelly-- bottom line is that he is 16-10 where it matters most. But two 8-5 seasons also does not mean that he's reached his ceiling in that department.

It's still too early to claim a trend for Kelly and ND football when it comes to recruiting ('10- not a great class, but decent, and that late in the process of when he was hired makes it too difficult to claim a great class or a bad class. Bottom line, he did okay given the circumstances. '11- flipped a few blue chips, got a great class. Anybody that says otherwise is delusional. '12- lost/couldn't hold onto a few guys, didn't hit on at least one area of crucial need, small overall number can be damaging, but definitely got A-List talent with the recruits he did land.) and it's still too early to say he won't improve the won-loss record. This season and the results (both W-L and recruiting) will be absolutely crucial in dictating whether ND is "trending" upward, downward, or treading the waters of mediocrity.

 

[Monk]

I guess I’m a little confused here. What are we discussing? First off the article did not say anything that wasn’t true. Every player we lost was a game changing player with the exception of maybe Perkins (still a very good player). The class only brought in 16 players. Many of these guys are very good players, but 16 total commitments is way too low for Notre Dame. He also states we need to recruit the top players in ND’s back yard, which is an obvious statement, but still true.

One more thing, we are talking about the University of Notre Dame not Cal. It WAS one of the most feared and respected football programs in the nation. 16 recruits and losing recruits to the likes of Houston should not be acceptable. I think Brian Kelly is the right coach for the job, but we have to work harder reeling in the top recruits AND keeping them. Winning will obviously help, but you need the players to win.

 

[gkIrish]

Notre dame has a tremendous d-line

The entire offense is capable of being great with a qb not named Tommy

The secondary is relatively weak and/or an unknown

It is important to win games next year. Many of them

Close thread?

 

[NDhoosier]

Well, we were 8-5 last year. Due to the fact that most of the players you mentioned in your post (see below) have never played in a college game, your assertion that our roster is "chock full of talent" remains to be seen. Thankfully, the season is only 6 months away.

Hegarty
NMartin
Prestwood
Nichols
Davaris Daniels
Chris Brown
Justin Ferguson
Daniel Smith
Okwara
Baratti
Gholson
Jackson
Brown
Atkinson
Hardy
Farley
Prosise

We were 8-5 because of bad play at one position... QB, if we had a good QB last year, we were EASILY (I cannot emphasize this enough) 11-1 in the regular season... ND's roster is stacked in every position but CB and QB... I think we have a couple talented kids at the QB position, so CB is the only real issue and how they develop.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I guess I’m a little confused here. What are we discussing? First off the article did not say anything that wasn’t true. Every player we lost was a game changing player with the exception of maybe Perkins (still a very good player). The class only brought in 16 players. Many of these guys are very good players, but 16 total commitments is way too low for Notre Dame. He also states we need to recruit the top players in ND’s back yard, which is an obvious statement, but still true.

One more thing, we are talking about the University of Notre Dame not Cal. It WAS one of the most feared and respected football programs in the nation. 16 recruits and losing recruits to the likes of Houston should not be acceptable. I think Brian Kelly is the right coach for the job, but we have to work harder reeling in the top recruits AND keeping them. Winning will obviously help, but you need the players to win.

I believe we are discussing whether this is a trend. So going back to Kellys first to classes this isn't a "disturbing trend"

 

[bigedefense]

While it would have been great to have gotten ALL of the blue chips that we hoped would sign with ND, it is not realistic IMO. There are some blue chips in this class, could have been more I know, that will be great players. Whether it is the kid that left or someone else, the defensive backfield was going to be unproven. I will keep the faith in the coaching staff and in ND because thats just what I choose to do. I can see others point of view, and come mid September, I may feel the same. For now, however, I choose to look at what ND has rather than what ND could have had.

 

[phork]

We were 8-5 because of bad play at one position... QB, if we had a good QB last year, we were EASILY (I cannot emphasize this enough) 11-1 in the regular season... ND's roster is stacked in every position but CB and QB... I think we have a couple talented kids at the QB position, so CB is the only real issue and how they develop.

Wow. 11-1. 11-1 and curb stomped in a BCS game, which would have been worse for us imo.

 

[goldandblue]

Wow. 11-1. 11-1 and curb stomped in a BCS game, which would have been worse for us imo.

Really??? you don't think we would have had a better recruiting class with an 11-1 season and a major BCS bowl? There would have been alot of media coverage on the Irish with an 11-1 season that these kids would have seen.

I'll take an 11-1 season and an *** kicking in a BCS bowl over an 8-5 season with an *** kicking in the Champs Sports bowl any day....

 

[irishpat183]

We're an average program that couldn't afford to bring in such a louzy class.

It's absolutley pathetic that we lost Tee...I actually didn't find that out until now.

8-5 will be a huge victory, if you ask me.

Kelly and his staff absolutely blew it. No excuses.

 

[woolybug25]

We're an average program that couldn't afford to bring in such a louzy class.

It's absolutley pathetic that we lost Tee...I actually didn't find that out until now.

8-5 will be a huge victory, if you ask me.

Kelly and his staff absolutely blew it. No excuses.

So the staff caused Tee's medical issue that led to him leaving?

 

[irishog77]

So the staff caused Tee's medical issue that led to him leaving?

You bet your @ss they did! They're also the reason gas prices are so high, Iran is a nuclear threat, and why espn keeps promoting the women's basketball tournament.

THEY TOOK OUR JAAAABBBBSSS, damnit!

 

[ChiRish]

Really??? you don't think we would have had a better recruiting class with an 11-1 season and a major BCS bowl? There would have been alot of media coverage on the Irish with an 11-1 season that these kids would have seen.

I'll take an 11-1 season and an *** kicking in a BCS bowl over an 8-5 season with an *** kicking in the Champs Sports bowl any day....

This. BCS. BCS. BCS. Just getting there is infinitely better than losing in the Champs Bowl.