Salute to Mike Brey

[NDinFL]

A conference coach of the year award would be more aptly titled if it were called the 'coach of the surprise team of the year' award. Of the years that Brey has won the award in the Big East, how many times has he actually won the conference?

Paint it how you want to.

Brey is damn good.

 

[JD Irish]

A conference coach of the year award would be more aptly titled if it were called the 'coach of the surprise team of the year' award. Of the years that Brey has won the award in the Big East, how many times has he actually won the conference?

It essentially means what coach had the most to do with his team's success. Replace Brey with another coach and this team is an NIT team, or probably even worse.

 

[IrishLax]

A conference coach of the year award would be more aptly titled if it were called the 'coach of the surprise team of the year' award. Of the years that Brey has won the award in the Big East, how many times has he actually won the conference?

Come on... that is how every coaching award is done. Why do you think Harbaugh won coach of the year in the NFL? Because the 49ers went from a middling team to top 5. Why do you think Brey won NATIONAL Coach of the Year? Because ND went from no Top 25 votes/selected to finish 9th in the Big East to a #2 seed and top 5 team.

People like to hate on Brey for his tournament record... well... there is a reason why they call it March MADNESS... and a reason why the NBA does 7 game series... in one singular a game a huge component is just sheer dumb luck.......

 

[DillonHall]

It essentially means what coach had the most to do with his team's success. Replace Brey with another coach and this team is an NIT team, or probably even worse.

You can say that about a professional coach who has less control of the personnel. However, in college, where the coach is responsible for recruiting his own players, this argument has no substance.

 

[DillonHall]

Come on... that is how every coaching award is done. Why do you think Harbaugh won coach of the year in the NFL? Because the 49ers went from a middling team to top 5. Why do you think Brey won NATIONAL Coach of the Year? Because ND went from no Top 25 votes/selected to finish 9th in the Big East to a #2 seed and top 5 team.

People like to hate on Brey for his tournament record... well... there is a reason why they call it March MADNESS... and a reason why the NBA does 7 game series... in one singular a game a huge component is just sheer dumb luck.......

Yeah, you're right. I'm just saying that a coach of the year award doesn't mean that much. Nobody believes that Brey is a better coach than Coach K (who hasn't won the award since the 1990s).

For the record, I hope Brey retires at ND in 10-15 years. He would regularly visit Dillon (and I'm sure other dorms) in the 24 hour lounge just to meet with us, and I attended a couple of them and had a great time chatting with him. He's a perfect fit as ND's basketball coach, but that doesn't make him a great coach.

 

[Irish2015]

Yeah, you're right. I'm just saying that a coach of the year award doesn't mean that much. Nobody believes that Brey is a better coach than Coach K (who hasn't won the award since the 1990s).

For the record, I hope Brey retires at ND in 10-15 years. He would regularly visit Dillon (and I'm sure other dorms) in the 24 hour lounge just to meet with us, and I attended a couple of them and had a great time chatting with him. He's a perfect fit as ND's basketball coach, but that doesn't make him a great coach.

I think it's an unfair to say that Brey isn't as good as Coach K. Its comparing apples and oranges. Coach K has about 10x more talent at every position and is at a school that is a basketball first school.

 

[brick4956]

the person in the photo is a guy who is a really good friend of mine who lives right next door to coach brey, and his daughters name is callie brey, and i see coach k sometimes around the place i currently live since he has a house in Wilmington, NC

 

[IrishLax]

Yeah, you're right. I'm just saying that a coach of the year award doesn't mean that much. Nobody believes that Brey is a better coach than Coach K (who hasn't won the award since the 1990s).

For the record, I hope Brey retires at ND in 10-15 years. He would regularly visit Dillon (and I'm sure other dorms) in the 24 hour lounge just to meet with us, and I attended a couple of them and had a great time chatting with him. He's a perfect fit as ND's basketball coach, but that doesn't make him a great coach.

I can definitely agree with all of this, and especially the last part. When you consider that recruiting is a quintessential part of being a college basketball coach Brey comes way short of many of his counterparts. Mike Brey will always be a "good" coach and he has definitely improved as an in-game tactician throughout his career... but he'll never end up coaching Team USA like Coach K.

At the same time, I always wonder what he would do at a place like Kentucky that is basketball first and is in favor of the one-and-dones... would he recruit more elite talent? Is he just too nice of a guy to battle it out on the recruiting trail? I'm not sure. I think it'd be an interesting experiment to watch.

 

[Irish2015]

To be honest I don't think his recruiting woes are all his fault.

 

[military_irish]

He may have faults and his teams seem to always get knocked out in the 1st or 2nd rounds of the tournament. But I would rather have a coach that makes it to the tourney by "overachieving" and possibly put his team in position to at least play for a championship, if the chips fall right. Than a coach that never makes it to the tourney and settles for the NIT every year.

 

[Irish2015]

Lax hypothetical question, what's Coach's K's record if he's the head coach at ND right now this season?

 

[returnofthemack]

I can definitely agree with all of this, and especially the last part. When you consider that recruiting is a quintessential part of being a college basketball coach Brey comes way short of many of his counterparts. Mike Brey will always be a "good" coach and he has definitely improved as an in-game tactician throughout his career... but he'll never end up coaching Team USA like Coach K.

At the same time, I always wonder what he would do at a place like Kentucky that is basketball first and is in favor of the one-and-dones... would he recruit more elite talent? Is he just too nice of a guy to battle it out on the recruiting trail? I'm not sure. I think it'd be an interesting experiment to watch.

Brey's not cutthroat enough or scummy enough to load up on the one-and-dones like Calipari. However, even if he did, I suspect he'd have quite a few early-round exits. I feel one of his fundamental flaws as a coach is the overload of minutes on the starters. He doesn't manage rotations well and I feel that always kills us in March.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I shouldn't throw in an opinion, but some of this discussion ragging on Coach Brey is pretty irritating. And, the commentary often seems to me to be made without a lot of knowledge about actual playing basketball at different times of he season.

Big time college basketball is composed of several "seasons" within a season, but the standout difference is between NCAA tournament vs everything else. A lot of teams which are loaded with talent underachieve at least slightly during the year because they know they're hot-shots and can do so. A good analogy in football is USC. The coach doesn't make much difference; they're going to blow it here and there.

BUT along comes NCAA tournament time and the animals come out of their cages. All of a sudden it's no taking plays off; defense in your grill 100% of the time; and Sir Jam-a-Lot crazies banging all over the backboards. What's the relevance?? If you have wolves and gorillas and sharks all over your roster, you're probably going to beat those astonishingly disciplined high-functioning teams who aren't composed of entirely 44" verticals most of the time. Pete Carril was acknowledged as one of our all-time great BBall coaches. He could take ten smart guys from Princeton, create a brilliant "clock", and beat most people most of the time. But he never could win a title in the NCAA. No Wolves. No Gorillas. No Sharks.

A LOT of those wolves/gorillas/sharks are accumulating at schools which don't care if they graduate and therefore hardly care if they're in class. Entrance "requirements" for some of these guys seem to trend towards the realm of fantasy. ND is REALLY hamstrung in basketball by this. Just as we CAN survive in football because our tradition attracts some of the elite kids who are also scholars, we lose out in BBall because it is a place like Duke that the same kid goes to due to tradition and image. Their doesn't seem to be a great big pool of inner city rim-smashers who also can get into Notre Dame --- doesn't mean they aren't natively smart, just that polished academic focus ain't happening much. Brey will lose that battle with Coach K almost everytime, and if people want to blame him for that, well, they are off-base.

Even Coach K doesn't graduate every player by the way. We do. Kentucky graduates about 30% [even when you factor in the no penalty clause IF THE ATHLETE WAS IN NORMAL PROGRESS TOWARDS A DEGREE WHEN HE BOLTED FOR THE NBA]. Syracuse?: about half. Connecticut?: such an embarrassment it even put pressure on Calhoun to shape up. Memphis used to be at ZERO. Only 20% of NCAA BBall teams are graduating over 70% of their black players. Some black players joked last year that the reason that their team had a couple of non-blacks on the end of the bench was to improve the graduation statistics.

When Notre Dame takes the court during the regular season, we typically are going out there with a bunch of guys who are very good athletes, but not NBA animals-in-training. Still our great coach and our great kids win many more than the analysts expect. Then along comes the tournament. The shackles are off and the cage doors are open and the game is suddenly being played about a foot higher off the floor. Sure, I'm being dramatic, but if you don't know what I'm talking about, then you really don't know basketball.

It is REALLY hard for Brey to do much about this. Last year's team just about had the mix. Hansborough gave us some very rare streetball-quality toughness and ferocity. BIG will-power. No coach can instill that --- that's in the player or it isn't. Our two bigs were almost big enough to hang on the boards against the animals, and swat away the inner shots. Not quite. But whereas the rock-&-rollers ALSO had shooting guns arrayed all about AND on the bench, we were reduced to hoping that our few heroes would never have a poor shooting game.

The extra burden on this coach in recruiting is beyond solution in my opinion. He is almost going to have to get lucky and get two home-grown presents like Muffet got with Skylar Diggins to build a monster around. Brey also cannot force that to happen. I REALLY wish people would show a bit more understanding.

 

[returnofthemack]

I shouldn't throw in an opinion, but some of this discussion ragging on Coach Brey is pretty irritating. And, the commentary often seems to me to be made without a lot of knowledge about actual playing basketball at different times of he season.

Big time college basketball is composed of several "seasons" within a season, but the standout difference is between NCAA tournament vs everything else. A lot of teams which are loaded with talent underachieve at least slightly during the year because they know they're hot-shots and can do so. A good analogy in football is USC. The coach doesn't make much difference; they're going to blow it here and there.

BUT along comes NCAA tournament time and the animals come out of their cages. All of a sudden it's no taking plays off; defense in your grill 100% of the time; and Sir Jam-a-Lot crazies banging all over the backboards. What's the relevance?? If you have wolves and gorillas and sharks all over your roster, you're probably going to beat those astonishingly disciplined high-functioning teams who aren't composed of entirely 44" verticals most of the time. Pete Carril was acknowledged as one of our all-time great BBall coaches. He could take ten smart guys from Princeton, create a brilliant "clock", and beat most people most of the time. But he never could win a title in the NCAA. No Wolves. No Gorillas. No Sharks.

A LOT of those wolves/gorillas/sharks are accumulating at schools which don't care if they graduate and therefore hardly care if they're in class. Entrance "requirements" for some of these guys seem to trend towards the realm of fantasy. ND is REALLY hamstrung in basketball by this. Just as we CAN survive in football because our tradition attracts some of the elite kids who are also scholars, we lose out in BBall because it is a place like Duke that the same kid goes to due to tradition and image. Their doesn't seem to be a great big pool of inner city rim-smashers who also can get into Notre Dame --- doesn't mean they aren't natively smart, just that polished academic focus ain't happening much. Brey will lose that battle with Coach K almost everytime, and if people want to blame him for that, well, they are off-base.

Even Coach K doesn't graduate every player by the way. We do. Kentucky graduates about 30% [even when you factor in the no penalty clause IF THE ATHLETE WAS IN NORMAL PROGRESS TOWARDS A DEGREE WHEN HE BOLTED FOR THE NBA]. Syracuse?: about half. Connecticut?: such an embarrassment it even put pressure on Calhoun to shape up. Memphis used to be at ZERO. Only 20% of NCAA BBall teams are graduating over 70% of their black players. Some black players joked last year that the reason that their team had a couple of non-blacks on the end of the bench was to improve the graduation statistics.

When Notre Dame takes the court during the regular season, we typically are going out there with a bunch of guys who are very good athletes, but not NBA animals-in-training. Still our great coach and our great kids win many more than the analysts expect. Then along comes the tournament. The shackles are off and the cage doors are open and the game is suddenly being played about a foot higher off the floor. Sure, I'm being dramatic, but if you don't know what I'm talking about, then you really don't know basketball.

It is REALLY hard for Brey to do much about this. Last year's team just about had the mix. Hansborough gave us some very rare streetball-quality toughness and ferocity. BIG will-power. No coach can instill that --- that's in the player or it isn't. Our two bigs were almost big enough to hang on the boards against the animals, and swat away the inner shots. Not quite. But whereas the rock-&-rollers ALSO had shooting guns arrayed all about AND on the bench, we were reduced to hoping that our few heroes would never have a poor shooting game.

The extra burden on this coach in recruiting is beyond solution in my opinion. He is almost going to have to get lucky and get two home-grown presents like Muffet got with Skylar Diggins to build a monster around. Brey also cannot force that to happen. I REALLY wish people would show a bit more understanding.

Those are great points. I think the only reason this comes up so much is because of Butler's recent success, but even then, they had a lot of lucky breaks go their way.

 

[DillonHall]

There are Cinderella teams every single year, and there are no 'gorillas' on those teams. Richmond, VCU, Butler, Wisconsin, San Diego St., FSU, and Marquette all made the Sweet Sixteen last year, and none of those teams are known for relying on one-and-done players. And just by the way, I don't think just because a great player leaves after his first year makes him or his college coach any less respectable. For many of the best college basketball players, the best chance of making a good living is to play in the NBA.

Using the academics angle is a crutch and an excuse. There is plenty of talent around the country that Notre Dame should be able to recruit to campus.

Football doesn't survive in recruiting merely because of the tradition; in fact, the only 'tradition' that high school recruits have experienced in their lifetime regarding ND football has been a program that consistently fails to live up to expectations. The main reason that we can remain in the top 20 each year in football is because the football coaching staff has been able to find enough players who understand the value of a Notre Dame education. These benefits extend also to basketball players at ND, so academics should be a recruiting tool, not a hindrance. It's up to Brey and his coaches to use this advantage properly, and he hasn't done it until this past year.

Duke takes 3-4 players a year. There aren't many more schools that provide the blend of academics and basketball (maybe Stanford, Vandy, and Northwestern) besides Notre Dame. It's ridiculous to think that there aren't enough good/great basketball players with a sincere interest in education to go around between these few schools.

 

[NDinFL]

There are Cinderella teams every single year, and there are no 'gorillas' on those teams. Richmond, VCU, Butler, Wisconsin, San Diego St., FSU, and Marquette all made the Sweet Sixteen last year, and none of those teams are known for relying on one-and-done players. And just by the way, I don't think just because a great player leaves after his first year makes him or his college coach any less respectable. For many of the best college basketball players, the best chance of making a good living is to play in the NBA.

Using the academics angle is a crutch and an excuse. There is plenty of talent around the country that Notre Dame should be able to recruit to campus.

Football doesn't survive in recruiting merely because of the tradition; in fact, the only 'tradition' that high school recruits have experienced in their lifetime regarding ND football has been a program that consistently fails to live up to expectations. The main reason that we can remain in the top 20 each year in football is because the football coaching staff has been able to find enough players who understand the value of a Notre Dame education. These benefits extend also to basketball players at ND, so academics should be a recruiting tool, not a hindrance. It's up to Brey and his coaches to use this advantage properly, and he hasn't done it until this past year.

Duke takes 3-4 players a year. There aren't many more schools that provide the blend of academics and basketball (maybe Stanford, Vandy, and Northwestern) besides Notre Dame. It's ridiculous to think that there aren't enough good/great basketball players with a sincere interest in education to go around between these few schools.

How is it either of those?

It's a reason, a logical reason why we can't recruit with the Kentuckys and Cincinatti's and Ohio States of the world.

Hypothetically, if blue chip recruit A has a sub par GPA, then he isn't getting into ND.

However, surely OSU, or any of the other schools with less stringent requirements to enroll would GLADLY take blue chip recruit A

How is that an excuse?

 

[DillonHall]

How is it either of those?

It's a reason, a logical reason why we can't recruit with the Kentuckys and Cincinatti's and Ohio States of the world.

Hypothetically, if blue chip recruit A has a sub par GPA, then he isn't getting into ND.

However, surely OSU, or any of the other schools with less stringent requirements to enroll would GLADLY take blue chip recruit A

How is that an excuse?

Why don't you read my entire post?

 

[NDinFL]

Why don't you read my entire post?

I did.

Just bolded a part that I specifically disagree with.

Brey works with what he has, and does it very well.

No need to demean his accomplishments/coaching abilities.

 

[DillonHall]

I did.

Just bolded a part that I specifically disagree with.

Brey works with what he has, and does it very well.

No need to demean his accomplishments/coaching abilities.

I mention in my last paragraph that there are still plenty of great basketball players who are eligible to be admitted to ND. I wish Brey would pursue them more aggressively because ND has lots to offer its student-athletes (as in football). My biggest complaints are his recruiting and his resume in March, which go hand in hand. I think he needs to build more depth throughout the season so that his players have more energy at the end of the season. In the end, this all comes back to recruiting.

And you're completely right- Mike Brey has accomplished much more than he's been asked to. His players love him, the students love him, and he's a great fit at ND. I would trade him for only a handful of coaches around the country. I'm not trying to demean what's he's done at ND for the past decade, but I just think that he could do more to build a more well-rounded, consistent program, especially given the resources that are now available.

 

[NDJimmy]

Brey overachieves as a coach.
His players accomplish beyond their percieved limits.
Do you know how long John Wooden was coaching before he won his first championship?

You guys who want to give me crap for putting Brey & Wooden in the same post, save your energy. You missed the point.

 

[NDinFL]

I mention in my last paragraph that there are still plenty of great basketball players who are eligible to be admitted to ND. I wish Brey would pursue them more aggressively because ND has lots to offer its student-athletes (as in football). My biggest complaints are his recruiting and his resume in March, which go hand in hand. I think he needs to build more depth throughout the season so that his players have more energy at the end of the season. In the end, this all comes back to recruiting.

And you're completely right- Mike Brey has accomplished much more than he's been asked to. His players love him, the students love him, and he's a great fit at ND. I would trade him for only a handful of coaches around the country.

Agreed

As we all know though, winning and good recruiting go hand in hand 9 times out of 10.

If Brey can string together a decent run to the Sweet 16 or further in the tourney, it would do wonders for ND basketball recruiting. IMO

 

[DillonHall]

Agreed

As we all know though, winning and good recruiting go hand in hand 9 times out of 10.

If Brey can string together a decent run to the Sweet 16 or further in the tourney, it would do wonders for ND basketball recruiting. IMO

You're right, Brey is following up last year's on-court success with his best recruiting class ever.

 

[NDJimmy]

Can you imagine, if this year's team keeps building on what they've started?

 

[gkautz10]

I mention in my last paragraph that there are still plenty of great basketball players who are eligible to be admitted to ND. I wish Brey would pursue them more aggressively because ND has lots to offer its student-athletes (as in football). My biggest complaints are his recruiting and his resume in March, which go hand in hand. I think he needs to build more depth throughout the season so that his players have more energy at the end of the season. In the end, this all comes back to recruiting.

And you're completely right- Mike Brey has accomplished much more than he's been asked to. His players love him, the students love him, and he's a great fit at ND. I would trade him for only a handful of coaches around the country. I'm not trying to demean what's he's done at ND for the past decade, but I just think that he could do more to build a more well-rounded, consistent program, especially given the resources that are now available.

I agree with your points here that Brey has in the past under achieved in both recruiting and in March. As we have seen the recruiting has picked up significantly over the past few years. As for playing well in the tournament that is still to be seen. The only reason I give Brey a break on recruiting is because there are far less athletes to choose from when it comes to basketball recruiting than there is when it comes to football recruiting. That being said, I think a basketball team can do quite well with far less superior recruits. It is all about how they are coached and how they gel together on the court. This team is growing up together as college basketball players which is why I feel they are achieving the way they are. Brey's resume speaks for itself and he has a damn good coaching pedigree. Honestly all these Brey haters out there, tell me who we would hire that is equal or better to Brey? The only other gripe people have about Brey is that he doesn't use his bench. I agree with this but I think we are about to see all that change with the players that are coming in. Also this team is going to be really fun to watch over the next few years with Abro and Martin coming back next season, meaning the entire team will be back!!