Occupy Wall St.

[BobD]

Can anyone here educate me on the goals of these people participating in this "Occupy" thing? I live in Northern California and we currently have "Occupy" demonstrations in Sacramento, Oakland and San Francisco . They're wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars of our cities budgets....all the police labor hours, the rubber bullets and tear gas cost a lot of money. I haven't heard anyone state any actual goals they hope to achieve, have you? I know they're upset about how much money some people have, do they expect wealthy people to give them something to move their tents? I haven't seen anyone representing them on TV who looks like they might be credible or employed, unless they all work at music stores, health food stores and head shops. The last I heard, you earn a living, not protest for one.

I know my question is laced with some negativity, but I really would really like to know, Do they have an actual goal?

 

[magogian]

Do they have an actual goal?

Redistribution of wealth from the "1%" to the rest. Destruction of our quasi free market system.

 

[DonnieNarco]

They are trying to get their voices heard. I'll support them when they get out of their angry stage and become clearer and more unified. They just want the top 1% and the banks to play by the same rules that the other 99% play by.

 

[anarin]

They are all passing time until the phish concert starts.

 

[mgriff]

It's not really a cohesive movement, but the common thread is the lack of representation for the people, and our elective representatives legislating for corporations and private interests instead of American interests. I completely agree and think this country is corrupt on both sides of the aisle. It's the left/right paradigm, made to give you the illusion of choice because when it comes down to it, foreign policy, debt, and monetary system, both parties are in agreement and have acted as such over the last two administrations. They disagree over incendiary issues which divide the voters along party lines and then keep the same policies going administration after administration.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

They are mad they took out ridiculous student loans and study in fields with no job prospects and get mad that the people who loaned them their money want it back. It's never their fault. It's someone else's.

 

[Dacian_Irish]

Why does the US govt borrow money from the federal reserve and then pay interest on it? Our govt is in debt to the banks when it does not need to be.Their is nothing federal about the federal reserve.

And all of these bail-outs are bs.

In a free a market system they should not bail out any company. Let them fail. Especially the banks. Why do these companies get bail-outs but the rest of us do not?

That is why they are pissed.

We live in a corporate monarchy guys. Laws are passed based on who puts more money in politicians pockets. And who owns the media? The 1%. So of course they are only going to show you hippies on TV.

 

[IrishLax]

This post kind hits the nail on the head of what I don't respect about it. This isn't a Million Man March with discreet goals and a purpose... you basically just have a bunch of people saying the "1%" needs to "pay their fair share"... and when pushed on it these people can't define what the hell would be a "fair share."

I don't want to get into a rant on this, but at my engineering firm we constantly joke about how we're in the "1%" but most of us paid ~$200k for an education and spent ~5 years of our lives going through tough coursework that most people don't want to take or can't take to get there... and then those of us who had to take out student loans or have to support a family are forced to live over an hour away from the office and commute in our crappy used Toyotas and Fords to even afford living in the DC area. I'm comfortable because my parents saved money for my education and I'm single with no one to support but myself... but damn, people need to realize how much income the "1%" actually earns, what it took to get there, and that a 2 bedroom apartment in the DC area runs you $3000+ a month.

 

[kmoose]

We live in a corporate monarchy guys. Laws are passed based on who puts more money in politicians pockets.

And why is that? Is it the politicians' fault? The corporations' fault? No, it's "we the people's" fault!

Politicians need money to get elected. And they need a lot of it, because the average American voter is slightly more politically savvy than a box of rocks. Instead of taking their vote seriously and researching the candidates on the ballot, they simply watch political ads and make up their mind based on what they've heard the most. If you tell someone something enough times, they will begin to believe it to be fact. So politicians need a large war chest, so that they can buy enough time slots to influence the voters. So the biggest issue is a lazy, stupid electorate. Couple that with the fact that "Politician" is now a career, instead of a temporary calling, and you have our dysfunctional government. To counter that, these slack-jawed malcontents showing everyone just how stupid the average American voter is. Brilliant!!

 

[notredomer23]

I am one of the 76%(recent poll) who wishes they would go home. The main source of people there are kids fresh out of college who are
mad at the government because they have to pay for their college debt or are mad that people are successful.

They want a redistribution of wealth. Which in plain English is socialism. No matter how you slice that it is un-American

 

[IrishLax]

If they want to push for the .1% or the .01% to pay more taxes or have their loopholes closed I can totally get behind that. But right now it just comes across as too much pure complaining with no sense of well thought out goals or direction. Most of the people in the lower half of that "1%" made intelligent decisions and worked their butts off to get there. It's so hard to respect someone who took out a bunch of loans to get a psychology degree at the local JC and then drank/partied their way through it to get a 2.0 and then blames everyone else for them not having a job.... and then to top it off, instead of looking for a job they just give up and spend months camping out in cities to "send a message."

 

[Whiskeyjack]

They're supposed to be protesting crony capitalism, but most of them are unaware of this.

 

[Dacian_Irish]

I agree it is "we the people" that are at fault for letting it get to this.

But to say politician and corporations are not at fault is delusional! The govt constantly lies to us constantly and they bail each other out.

This country is run by the ones who control the money! The govt does not control the money supply! The federal reserve does!

 

[Dacian_Irish]

I love how everyone thinks we still live in capitalist society.. All you have to do is look at Obama's health care bill.

Have you ever heard of Social Security? That is as socialistic as it gets!

 

[IrishJayhawk]

As I see it...many of the austerity measures to balance the budget have come at the expense of social safety nets, education, infrastructure, etc.

The opposition to Occupy is arguing "free market" and "wealth redistribution." But, when the 1% made tons of bad investments with our money, we didn't allow the free market to kill Goldman. They received bail-out money in order that the entire economy wasn't toppled.

If I make those same bad investments, I don't get bailed out. The free market eats me alive. And the safety net programs that are cut would be my only recourse.

What happened to those companies who were bailed out? They are as profitable as ever. And their CEOs are continuing to be paid hundreds of percent more money than their average employees. They didn't suffer for their bad choices. And now we're being told that we all need to make shared sacrifices in order to balance the budget. Never mind that we're laying off police officers, cutting education, and are refusing to update our infrastructure.

Many of the 1% also got there through inherited wealth. Many make their money on investments. And we continue to slash capital gains taxes. Even though they would pay a higher rate on income tax than me, they don't have an income. So, they aren't subject to the same income tax or payroll tax than me.

Some of the Occupy people are uninformed and have no idea what they are doing. But, that's not true of all of them.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I love how everyone thinks we still live in capitalist society.. All you have to do is look at Obama's health care bill.

Have you ever heard of Social Security? That is as socialistic as it gets!

Obama's health care bill is a republican idea from the 1990s. Had we passed Nixon's health care bill in the 1970s it would be much more government control than the current plan. The individual mandate requires people to buy health care from a private company, not the government.

We are not a pure capitalistic society. If we were, our emergency rooms would be forced to allow people to die if they can't pay for service. If we were, we would have no police forces, only militias. If we were, we wouldn't have roads and you'd pay a toll every time you drove on someone's highways.

 

[Corry]

This post kind hits the nail on the head of what I don't respect about it. This isn't a Million Man March with discreet goals and a purpose... you basically just have a bunch of people saying the "1%" needs to "pay their fair share"... and when pushed on it these people can't define what the hell would be a "fair share."

I don't want to get into a rant on this, but at my engineering firm we constantly joke about how we're in the "1%" but most of us paid ~$200k for an education and spent ~5 years of our lives going through tough coursework that most people don't want to take or can't take to get there... and then those of us who had to take out student loans or have to support a family are forced to live over an hour away from the office and commute in our crappy used Toyotas and Fords to even afford living in the DC area. I'm comfortable because my parents saved money for my education and I'm single with no one to support but myself... but damn, people need to realize how much income the "1%" actually earns, what it took to get there, and that a 2 bedroom apartment in the DC area runs you $3000+ a month.

You sir are not in the 1%, you just live in wealthiest place in America.

 

[IrishLax]

You sir are not in the 1%, you just live in wealthiest place in America.

Yeah I actually looked it up, and you're 100% right (assuming this site is correct). Reps.

And inn that case... damn the 1%!!! Give me their money!!!!! I'm going to go quit my job and just sit around in a tent until someone takes care of me. That seems to be the rage these days.

 

[enrico514]

It's a disorganized movement without direction for the time being. People are slowly coming to grasp with the fact that their reality isn't quite what they believed it was or were promised it would be. It will surely better organize itself in the future in this form or another and hopefully the people will rise as they have in the past...

 

[Corry]

Yeah I actually looked it up, and you're 100% right (assuming this site is correct). Reps.

And inn that case... damn the 1%!!! Give me their money!!!!! I'm going to go quit my job and just sit around in a tent until someone takes care of me. That seems to be the rage these days.

Thanks for the link. I really had no idea that the top one percent only made $380,000 a year. Based on your pervious posts, your an Engineer who lives in the D.C area so I'm sure your not far off. The thing that stands out to me is that 50% of Americans make less than $32,000 a year.

 

[jason_h537]

OWS is very similar to the Tea Party. Both are fed up with the current government system and have decided to take to the streets. The difference is that the Tea Party seems to have a libertarian view and believes government intervention is the root of the current problem. OWS feels that government helped the wrong people, instead of intervening to help the "1%" who got the country in the mess, they should have helped the working class instead.

So instead of "taking the country back" from whoever stole it, OWS think that the country should work for the people and not corporations.

 

[BeauBenken]

I was the online face for the movement in Muncie for a few hours and I knew practically nothing about the movement. It was just me and friend goofing around over at the protestors.

What's bad is how a lot of these people claim to be poor, but they're the same people who go to Starbucks everyday in their 2009 Toyota (because their 2010 Honda is in the shop) and then proceed to go to work (where they get paid above minimum wage for 40 hours a week) and return home to their own house where they have AC/Heating and a 36" flat screen TV on which they have the 500 channel package. They have a microwave, a fridge, indoor plumbing, a stove, a couple couches and Lazyboys, and their own bed to sleep in at night.

This country is the only one where I could see an obese woman begging for change. No joke. I have.

Less than 1% of the people in the country really know what poor is.

I wouldn't mind a flat tax where there are no cuts though. Tax cuts? Why the hell should the woman who can't keep her legs closed not have to pay as much as me?

Sorry for my rant. I agree that it's ****ed up that a CEO gets a **** ton of money compared to all the guys doing the physical labor, but that's capitalism. Most people came to this country because of our freedoms and the opportunity given to make something of yourself through a capitalist economy.

 

[#1irishfan]

Why does the US govt borrow money from the federal reserve and then pay interest on it? Our govt is in debt to the banks when it does not need to be.Their is nothing federal about the federal reserve.

And all of these bail-outs are bs.

In a free a market system they should not bail out any company. Let them fail. Especially the banks. Why do these companies get bail-outs but the rest of us do not?

That is why they are pissed.

We live in a corporate monarchy guys. Laws are passed based on who puts more money in politicians pockets. And who owns the media? The 1%. So of course they are only going to show you hippies on TV.

Very WELL said!

 

[jason_h537]

Less than 1% of the people in the country really know what poor is.

That is wrong, there is about 20-30% of the population that lives in poverty. I remember watching Fox News and Hannity was talking about how all these people who claim to be poor are not, Then he started throwing out numbers like 97% of people in poverty own a fridge, 80% own a TV, and i kept thinking there are 3 % of people (not homeless) in the US without a fridge? That is sad, and when did a fridge become a sign of prosperity?

 

[BobD]

I don't think the folks who planned this OWS, thought it out very well. You can't put some possibly stoned, homeless looking guy with dreadlocks, on the evening news representing your cause. It doesn't do anything but p*ss off the majority of people.

 

[BeauBenken]

That is wrong, there is about 20-30% of the population that lives in poverty. I remember watching Fox News and Hannity was talking about how all these people who claim to be poor are not, Then he started throwing out numbers like 97% of people in poverty own a fridge, 80% own a TV, and i kept thinking there are 3 % of people (not homeless) in the US without a fridge? That is sad, and when did a fridge become a sign of prosperity?

I'm saying why don't you compare that to just about any 3rd world country. If you're going to be poor, the best place to be poor is in the US. There are so many programs here to help those in need.

 

[pkt77242]

I was the online face for the movement in Muncie for a few hours and I knew practically nothing about the movement. It was just me and friend goofing around over at the protestors.

What's bad is how a lot of these people claim to be poor, but they're the same people who go to Starbucks everyday in their 2009 Toyota (because their 2010 Honda is in the shop) and then proceed to go to work (where they get paid above minimum wage for 40 hours a week) and return home to their own house where they have AC/Heating and a 36" flat screen TV on which they have the 500 channel package. They have a microwave, a fridge, indoor plumbing, a stove, a couple couches and Lazyboys, and their own bed to sleep in at night.

This country is the only one where I could see an obese woman begging for change. No joke. I have.

Less than 1% of the people in the country really know what poor is.

I wouldn't mind a flat tax where there are no cuts though. Tax cuts? Why the hell should the woman who can't keep her legs closed not have to pay as much as me?

Sorry for my rant. I agree that it's ****ed up that a CEO gets a **** ton of money compared to all the guys doing the physical labor, but that's capitalism. Most people came to this country because of our freedoms and the opportunity given to make something of yourself through a capitalist economy.

I would like to know where you are getting that number from as it doesn't make sense with just about every study I have seen. Homelessness maybe less than 1% but the working poor or people who are poor are significantly higher than that especially in the last couple of years.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

That is wrong, there is about 20-30% of the population that lives in poverty. I remember watching Fox News and Hannity was talking about how all these people who claim to be poor are not, Then he started throwing out numbers like 97% of people in poverty own a fridge, 80% own a TV, and i kept thinking there are 3 % of people (not homeless) in the US without a fridge? That is sad, and when did a fridge become a sign of prosperity?

It's a media spin trying to down play American Poverty by comparing it to absolute poverty, which many people in this world live in, earns an income of less then a dollar a day. I am moderately conservative, but to say that we do not have poverty because we don't have populations of people living in tents in sewer systems is ridiculous.

I can understand SOME of what OWS is protesting, but I think the logical voice has been silenced by the 1000's of deadbeats demanding free healthcare, free school, free welfare...etc. Deadbeat bums from both corporations, and from the lower class have raped this country of all our resources. We can't feed every mouth, but can't hoard billions of dollars on the backs of little men from taiwan while Americans suffer.

Theres nothing worse then a lazy loser who wants a free ride, and protests why they are entitled to it. That really drives me nuts. I heard on the radio that someone was complaining that their Masters in Philosophy is useless in finding a job, he was countered by the obvious, what the hell were you thinking getting a degree in Philosophy? His response was, "if "X University" knew that I would not beable to get a job with my Philosophy degree, why did they take 100k from me in tuition. Why are our colleges giving us educations that won't get us jobs. Educational institutions are corporate business! They must pay!"......I don't know where this moron got the idea that College is a career school, but he has been misinformed

 

[pkt77242]

I'm saying why don't you compare that to just about any 3rd world country. If you're going to be poor, the best place to be poor is in the US. There are so many programs here to help those in need.

Not at the rate that people seem to want to get rid of them to balance the budget. Most of what they want to get rid of is the social safety net spending.

 

[jason_h537]

I'm saying why don't you compare that to just about any 3rd world country. If you're going to be poor, the best place to be poor is in the US. There are so many programs here to help those in need.

Ok but this is not a 3rd world country. This is the US , we are supposed to be the envy of the world. The shining light of liberty, freedom, and opportunity to the world. Instead you hear about how we should be more like India because corporations are flocking there.