'12 IN WR Gehrig Dieter (Alabama Transfer)

[IrishLax]

Funny that the same posters have no problem touting Perkins as a stud when he plays against the same alleged "soft" competition. Perkins should be running for 300 yds/gm as the opposition's tackling is reported on this site to be so bad. One could also reasonably note that the reason Perkings is getting 7 or 8 yds a carry is because Dieter's success vertically prevents the defense from dealing with the running threat.

One could say that HS uses the pass to open up the run. It cuts both ways.

Nice straw man you have there.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Funny that the same posters have no problem touting Perkins as a stud when he plays against the same alleged "soft" competition. Perkins should be running for 300 yds/gm as the opposition's tackling is reported on this site to be so bad. One could also reasonably note that the reason Perkings is getting 7 or 8 yds a carry is because Dieter's success vertically prevents the defense from dealing with the running threat.

One could say that HS uses the pass to open up the run. It cuts both ways.

See below.

The difference is that Perkins went to "The Opening" and preformed at a very high level against top competition. Dieter didn't get that opportunity so we don't know how he would perfrom in that situation.

I'm high on Perkins because his SPARQ combine results confirmed that he's an athletic freak, and because he reminds me of Shembo. The arguments against drawing conclusions from his high school production apply equally to both Dieter and Perkins.

 

[jmurphy75]

Defiantly associate Perkins to Shembo/Niklas as far as their FREAK status

 

[OCIrish]

Wow, so we're now saying that cause Boom got invited to "The Opening", his numbers against inferior oppisition don't mean $hit? C'mon fellas, you guys can do a hell of a lot better than that....we had a member on the team not so long ago who looked like a DT, had the strength, size, and physique of a great athlete and played his HS ball in the state of Florida. His name was Emeka Nwankwo, and if my memory serves me correctly, didn't do much his Irish career. Dieters put up some big numbers, while Booms have been good, but not quite as impressive as Dieter has.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Wow, so we're now saying that cause Boom got invited to "The Opening", his numbers against inferior oppisition don't mean $hit?

High school production, especially against weak competition, is an unreliable indicator of success at the next level. It's as true for Boom as it is for Big Rig.

C'mon fellas, you guys can do a hell of a lot better than that....we had a member on the team not so long ago who looked like a DT, had the strength, size, and physique of a great athlete and played his HS ball in the state of Florida. His name was Emeka Nwankwo, and if my memory serves me correctly, didn't do much his Irish career.

Nwankwo wasn't a highly rated prospect, so I'm not sure why you think his lack of success is meaningful to this discussion.

Dieters put up some big numbers, while Booms have been good, but not quite as impressive as Dieter has.

Compare their offer lists.

 

[D-BOE34]

I just have to ask why you guys think it is fair to compare the numbers? Honest question. Not being a smart a.s.s. GD had 7 rec for 373? yards and BOOM had 8 touches for 126 yds in the first game. One gets a touch at the LOS and the other is 10-15 yds down field. Obviously the opposing team has to act on both stars. They create space alone for each other. I will say GD wasn't at the same camp as BOOM so it is unfair to say GD wouldn't be a success at the same camp. BOOM isn't recruited as a RB either. I have yet to really know or see how his play on defense is. That kind of scares me. BOOM does however, have the talent to draw in big school offers. GD has not. I will leave it in the coaches eyes and not mine. I don't think anyone is saying GD isn't a great receiver. We just see why Bk and Co. have not offered. It's not a knock on the kid. By all means, PROVE THEM WRONG! Please! I personally love nothing more than a kid with something to prove.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Are we still talking about this???

 

[D-BOE34]

Are we still talking about this???

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uKkYxR9GORM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

We still have ...

 

[Old Man Mike]

The Staff has originally recruited Perkins for defense. It is his play on defense that people should be looking at [and that was what turned everyone on at the All-star camp.--- right on the money as far as Kelly/Diaco's scouting evaluation saw]. Whether David gets 300 yards per game rushing makes no difference to me. And, although Coach always likes the flexibility, i doubt that it makes much difference to him either. Plus, I also notice that David doesn't get a large number of carries per game. Why one would expect massive yards out of him that way puzzles me as well.

Dieter is an entirely different recruiting situation from David. He plays an entirely different position and attempts at comparing the two are misplaced. We need a freak athlete of David's qualities on defense at some aggression+closing speed position. David fits that beautifully. We need receivers. But what is Kelly looking for, and in what numbers [given the tight scholarship situation]?? We have two highly thought of receivers already. How many does Coach want?? [I'll bet one more]. Does he evaluate his board favorably as regards that spot?? [I'll bet that he thinks he's in good shape elsewhere]. Who are those other candidates [that's who people should be comparing Dieter to] ?? Do we want Dieter rather than Darboh for instance?? DGB?? We know [probably] the other possibilities. Kelly is juggling a much more complex set of balls-in-the-air than this discussion would suggest.

 

[NDinL.A.]

With Perkins, I could care less what a guy like in shorts and a tank top. Yeah, it looks great for us as ND fans when our players move up the rankings for doing well in the 7-on7 circuit (Perkins, Greenberry), but on the other hand we get pissed when our recruits move down the rankings when they don't go to camps ("Can't those idiots at Scout see this guy's film??? This guy is a football player!). I know you don't agree with me on this Whiskey, but I put a whole lot less stock in those 7 on 7's than most fans do. I love it when our players do well, but I'm more about how they play when they get hit in the mouth.

As for Dieter, he's simply in a numbers crunch for ND. They like him at outside WR. But they don't need another one of those players, as they have Greenberry and Ferguson there, and they them better. They need a slot guy, not an outside guy. They'd take only an elite player on the outside at this point, someone like DGB (fat chance, but still), or at the very least someone very high on their board, so Dieter at this point is on the outside (no pun intended) looking in.

 

[IrishLax]

With Perkins, I could care less what a guy like in shorts and a tank top. Yeah, it looks great for us as ND fans when our players move up the rankings for doing well in the 7-on7 circuit (Perkins, Greenberry), but on the other hand we get pissed when our recruits move down the rankings when they don't go to camps ("Can't those idiots at Scout see this guy's film??? This guy is a football player!). I know you don't agree with me on this Whiskey, but I put a whole lot less stock in those 7 on 7's than most fans do. I love it when our players do well, but I'm more about how they play when they get hit in the mouth.

There are a lot of people who think this way. Especially when it comes to defensive players. But frankly, it's clear that BK (and a lot other coaches) are willing to take chances on guys based on camp performances or perceived "upside." Great examples of this are John Turner who earned an offer at camp, Tyler Eifert who earned an offer at camp, and David Perkins who earned many offers from around the nation at camp.

As for Dieter, he's simply in a numbers crunch for ND. They like him at outside WR. But they don't need another one of those players, as they have Greenberry and Ferguson there, and they them better. They need a slot guy, not an outside guy. They'd take only an elite player on the outside at this point, someone like DGB (fat chance, but still), or at the very least someone very high on their board, so Dieter at this point is on the outside (no pun intended) looking in.

Let the Ian Thomas commitment watch commence... and then after that we're looking at one more superior athlete.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm not gonna join this argument, but I wanted to comment on "The Opening". I find it bizarre that people put so much stock in an invite-only camp thats highest level of performance is during 7 on 7's with no pads on.

A lot of people on here would rather judge a kids talent on a week of practice (essentially) over their entire high school career.

I find it strange...

 

[IrishLax]

I'm not gonna join this argument, but I wanted to comment on "The Opening". I find it bizarre that people put so much stock in an invite-only camp thats highest level of performance is during 7 on 7's with no pads on.

A lot of people on here would rather judge a kids talent on a week of practice (essentially) over their entire high school career.

I find it strange...

Why? Linemen were padded up and did tons of drills against each other. This is probably much better for evaluation than seeing how a gargantuan linemen (i.e. Zach Banner) destroys much less physically able HS linemen. Everyone went through a combine where results can actually be verified whereas most measureables are total BS. And then you got to see QBs, WRs and DBs all compete against elite competition versus players they have a clear athletic edge over. In essence, The Opening was the "NFL Combine" of high school. And everyone knows GMs put an awful lot of weight in how those guys perform in shorts.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uKkYxR9GORM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

We still have ...

hahaha... Well done.

 

[pkt77242]

Why? Linemen were padded up and did tons of drills against each other. This is probably much better for evaluation than seeing how a gargantuan linemen (i.e. Zach Banner) destroys much less physically able HS linemen. Everyone went through a combine where results can actually be verified whereas most measureables are total BS. And then you got to see QBs, WRs and DBs all compete against elite competition versus players they have a clear athletic edge over. In essence, The Opening was the "NFL Combine" of high school. And everyone knows GMs put an awful lot of weight in how those guys perform in shorts.

IrishLax beat me to it. Reps.

 

[woolybug25]

Why? Linemen were padded up and did tons of drills against each other. This is probably much better for evaluation than seeing how a gargantuan linemen (i.e. Zach Banner) destroys much less physically able HS linemen. Everyone went through a combine where results can actually be verified whereas most measureables are total BS. And then you got to see QBs, WRs and DBs all compete against elite competition versus players they have a clear athletic edge over. In essence, The Opening was the "NFL Combine" of high school. And everyone knows GMs put an awful lot of weight in how those guys perform in shorts.

None of the skill players are in pads, its one week of "practice", and most of all... it's invite only. So you aren't seeing the top 500 prospects or even the best prospects in a certian region of the country. You are only seeing the kids that got invited, so it's not a realistic view of how player A is compared to B,C,D and E player because only A and C players were invited or could come.

You are right that it's a "mini-combine" in a sense. Although its a much smaller representative of qualified players. There are over a million kids that play high school football and only 150 are invited to this ONE camp. Would you consider the NFL combine a good representative of college talent if it only invited .015% of it's players based solely on "who they liked"?

I would also add that if an NFL coach bases his opinion of a players talent solely on his performance at the combine rather than their actual performance during games, then he wont be a coach for very long. That's the kind of thinking that brought Jarmacus Russell to the NFL. In fact, if you look at the all-time nfl combine measurable records, you only see one actual star (Chris Johnson 4.24 - 40), the rest reads like this:

225 Bench - Justin Ernest
Vert Jump - Gerald Sensabaugh
10 Yard Dash - Aundrae Allison
20 Yard Shuffle - Kevin Kasper
3 Cone Drill - Sedrick Curry

So you guys can take "combine stars" like above, and i'll take the guys that have lots of success in actual live games. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that it's the only thing that matters (ala the talent level that Dieter plays), i'm just saying it matters a whole lot more than some invite-only non contact camp that lasts one week.

 

[IrishLax]

None of the skill players are in pads, its one week of "practice", and most of all... it's invite only. So you aren't seeing the top 500 prospects or even the best prospects in a certian region of the country. You are only seeing the kids that got invited, so it's not a realistic view of how player A is compared to B,C,D and E player because only A and C players were invited or could come.

You are right that it's a "mini-combine" in a sense. Although its a much smaller representative of qualified players. There are over a million kids that play high school football and only 150 are invited to this ONE camp. Would you consider the NFL combine a good representative of college talent if it only invited .015% of it's players based solely on "who they liked"?

I would also add that if an NFL coach bases his opinion of a players talent on his performance at the combine rather than their actual performance during games, then he wont be a coach for very long. That's the kind of thinking that brought Jarmacus Russell to the NFL. In fact, if you look at the all-time nfl combine measurable records, you only see one actual star (Chris Johnson 4.24 - 40), the rest reads like this:

225 Bench - Justin Ernest
Vert Jump - Gerald Sensabaugh
10 Yard Dash - Aundrae Allison
20 Yard Shuffle - Kevin Kasper
3 Cone Drill - Sedrick Curry

So you guys can take "combine stars" like above, and i'll take the guys that have lots of success in actual live games. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that it's the only thing that matters (ala the talent level that Dieter plays), i'm just saying it matters a whole lot more than some invite-only non contact camp that lasts one week.

You make good points....

For the record, I'm not saying choose one or the other. I'm saying to use a combination for evaluation. There are certain things you can't see on film that you can see at camp. And there are certain times where a prospect's tape doesn't tell the full story of their capability or upside.

A great example of camp over tape is a guy like Baratti who doesn't play his project position in HS. If you didn't get to see him run blazing fast laser timed 40s or maybe show off his safety skills at camp... it's really hard to project what he can do.

A great example of tape over camp are guys like Perkins. He shows up like a 5 in combines but shows up like a 3/4 right now on the field... which is why some really good schools will take a chance on him (Notre Dame, LSU, etc.) but overall informed guys like Coach D at ISD rank him pretty far down on our big board until he shows something with pads on.

All in all, I love All Star games where kids do practices beforehand. You get to see a combination of how they do in different drills against other elite guys AND a glimpse on how they perform on the field against "the best."

 

[woolybug25]

You make good points....

For the record, I'm not saying choose one or the other. I'm saying to use a combination for evaluation. There are certain things you can't see on film that you can see at camp. And there are certain times where a prospect's tape doesn't tell the full story of their capability or upside.

A great example of camp over tape is a guy like Baratti who doesn't play his project position in HS. If you didn't get to see him run blazing fast laser timed 40s or maybe show off his safety skills at camp... it's really hard to project what he can do.

A great example of tape over camp are guys like Perkins. He shows up like a 5 in combines but shows up like a 3/4 right now on the field... which is why some really good schools will take a chance on him (Notre Dame, LSU, etc.) but overall informed guys like Coach D at ISD rank him pretty far down on our big board until he shows something with pads on.

All in all, I love All Star games where kids do practices beforehand. You get to see a combination of how they do in different drills against other elite guys AND a glimpse on how they perform on the field against "the best."

I totally agree with you on all of those points. My original comment was meant to address people that use a player's performance or invitation to The Opening as proof or basis for their reasoning on why they are a good prospect. I agree with you that performances at camps are definetely part of the puzzle and can help evaluate recruits, but it is only part of that evaluation, not the "end all be all".

In relation to Dieter, I value his continued excellence on the field more than his non-invitation to The Opening. But that doesn't mean that I disregard the low level of competition, poor offer list and average speed. If he continues to play at the level he has the last two weeks though, I wouldn't be shocked if he ended up getting an offer before NSD.

 

[IrishLax]

Gehrig Dieter - Highlight Videos & Athlete Profile - Hudl

The first catch is a ****ing awesome play. Wow.

 

[BeauBenken]

He's physical. I'm not sure you could press cover him.

 

[IrishJimmy]

Gehrig did not go to try out at the Ohio State camp for the invite to go to THE OPENING, he no doubt would have made it, but stayed some to help the rest of his team at a local combine that was being held in South Bend. David and Gehrig are good friends on and off the field. The chemistry between these two gets better every day. Each one makes the other better, and feed off of each others success.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Gehrig Dieter - Highlight Videos & Athlete Profile - Hudl

The first catch is a ****ing awesome play. Wow.

OMG... Thats not even fair..

 

[woolybug25]

Gehrig Dieter - Highlight Videos & Athlete Profile - Hudl

The first catch is a ****ing awesome play. Wow.

Dizamn.... In all of the highlights that I have seen of Dieter, I always notice the same thing. His qb just hucks the ball into the air and hopes Dieter comes up with it.... which he usually does... and then he usually takes it to the house.

and he usually is in double coverage too.

 

[Irish2015]

I don't know if this has been discussed previously but is it possible Gehrig would come as a preferred walk-on with a possible scholarship available down the line?

 

[IrishLax]

I don't know if this has been discussed previously but is it possible Gehrig would come as a preferred walk-on with a possible scholarship available down the line?

I'd imagine that would only be a realistic possibility if he didn't receive any major DI offers. Although Schmidt chose to come to Notre Dame as a walk-on over a scholarship to Arizona or Miami so anything is possible. Still shocks me that he doesn't have an offer from IU.

 

[pkt77242]

I'd imagine that would only be a realistic possibility if he didn't receive any major DI offers. Although Schmidt chose to come to Notre Dame as a walk-on over a scholarship to Arizona or Miami so anything is possible. Still shocks me that he doesn't have an offer from IU.

Or Purdue.

 

[military_irish]

I'd imagine that would only be a realistic possibility if he didn't receive any major DI offers. Although Schmidt chose to come to Notre Dame as a walk-on over a scholarship to Arizona or Miami so anything is possible. Still shocks me that he doesn't have an offer from IU.

Maybe there is a reason? Who knows though.

 

[GBdomer]

The staff is after bigger fish. No disrespect to Gehrig but the staff is going after the big boys. I dont think there is any reason to keep talking about getting him an offer. Its a high light film they all look good. Call me sippin on the hateraid or whatever but lets go get the Greenberrys of the world. Good luck Gehrig.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

The staff is after bigger fish. No disrespect to Gehrig but the staff is going after the big boys. I dont think there is any reason to keep talking about getting him an offer. Its a high light film they all look good. Call me sippin on the hateraid or whatever but lets go get the Greenberrys of the world. Good luck Gehrig.

Yup.... couldn't agree more.

 

[woolybug25]

The staff is after bigger fish. No disrespect to Gehrig but the staff is going after the big boys. I dont think there is any reason to keep talking about getting him an offer. Its a high light film they all look good. Call me sippin on the hateraid or whatever but lets go get the Greenberrys of the world. Good luck Gehrig.

I think most people here want to wait on the big names too, but we may or may not actually land any of those guys. If we don't, Dieter is definitely a kid to keep an eye out for. Kelly will fill all of the wr slots and I wouldn't be shocked if Dieter got a late offer before NSD. Our coach offered Heggie for christ sakes, why would it be bizarre if he gave a late offer to a local star?

Btw, the chatter about Dieter isn't happening because of his highlight tapes. They have been happening because over the last two weeks he has been setting the world on fire in his games. He has been the best player on the field, even with one of our own recruits (Perkins) on the same team. Boom has been ballin' too, but Dieter has been dominating.