Quarterback Competition Update (4-11-11)

[Rhode Irish]

I mean we can nit pick stats and statistics all we want, I just thought the offense gelled more fluently with Rees.

zsteele, is your favorite MLB player David Eckstein? It has to be.

Citing statistical data as part of your argument is not nit-picking. The data means far more than ethereal ideas like the offense "gelling," or anecdotes about a baseball player's uniform being dirty or running out grounders to second base. At the end of the day, all the "heart" and "moxy" in the world and $2.25 will get you a subway ride.

No faith in improvement, mentoring, practice, film room?

No, more like no faith in miraculous improvements in physical tools. As much as Tommy could learn to correct some of his problems, like staring down his receivers from the snap to when he releases the pass, ultimately it is his physical limitations that make him overmatched at the BCS level.

Yes it's ok to have an average QB that wins games and takes care of the ball, or we can have Crist who is injury prone and takes shots down field that end up as incompletes or INT'S.

Rees threw interceptions more frequently than Crist did last season (Crist: 1 INT every 42 PA; Rees: 1 INT every 20.5 PA). Notre Dame won the final four games of the season because its defense flipped a switch. Do you think if Rees had started the Navy game the result would have been different? I'm not sure how anyone that watched the Michigan game could argue against the value of Crist.

I'll take Rees who has room to improve and can only get better with work and experience.

Rees and Crist, depsite their differences in age, have the exact same amount of experience in Kelly's system, and Crist does not have significantly more CFB experience. Crist has two more years of eligibility remaining; Rees has three. I don't see that as a reason to play Rees, even if they were basically equal (and they aren't). If it were a reason, you might as well play Golson or Hendrix over Rees, since they have four years left to Rees's three.

 

[zsteele15]

I do think looking up statistical info is like the pencial pushers of the sports world, although they are on paper, they can not hold a correct stat on potential, its just probability. Im not sure why you compare both QB's in Kellys system to the college experience that Crist holds over Rees. Im just pleading a case that Rees made plays with what he had, remember. No Rudolph and a WR converted to running back. So it is way too far fetched to just say they each are experienced in Kellys system and not taking into consideration that Dayne has significantly more CFB experience than Rees. And for the Navy game, we'll never know. Im glad the D flipped a switch keep it up I say, just makes Rees's candidacy to be the starter, that much stronger I would presume

 

[zsteele15]

zsteele, is your favorite MLB player David Eckstein? It has to be.

Citing statistical data as part of your argument is not nit-picking. The data means far more than ethereal ideas like the offense "gelling," or anecdotes about a baseball player's uniform being dirty or running out grounders to second base. At the end of the day, all the "heart" and "moxy" in the world and $2.25 will get you a subway ride.



No, more like no faith in miraculous improvements in physical tools. As much as Tommy could learn to correct some of his problems, like staring down his receivers from the snap to when he releases the pass, ultimately it is his physical limitations that make him overmatched at the BCS level.



Rees threw interceptions more frequently than Crist did last season (Crist: 1 INT every 42 PA; Rees: 1 INT every 20.5 PA). Notre Dame won the final four games of the season because its defense flipped a switch. Do you think if Rees had started the Navy game the result would have been different? I'm not sure how anyone that watched the Michigan game could argue against the value of Crist.



Rees and Crist, depsite their differences in age, have the exact same amount of experience in Kelly's system, and Crist does not have significantly more CFB experience. Crist has two more years of eligibility remaining; Rees has three. I don't see that as a reason to play Rees, even if they were basically equal (and they aren't). If it were a reason, you might as well play Golson or Hendrix over Rees, since they have four years left to Rees's three.

I do think looking up statistical info is like the pencial pushers of the sports world, although they are on paper, they can not hold a correct stat on potential, its just probability. Im not sure why you compare both QB's in Kellys system to the college experience that Crist holds over Rees. Im just pleading a case that Rees made plays with what he had, remember. No Rudolph and a WR converted to running back. So it is way too far fetched to just say they each are experienced in Kellys system and not taking into consideration that Dayne has significantly more CFB experience than Rees. And for the Navy game, we'll never know. Im glad the D flipped a switch keep it up I say, just makes Rees's candidacy to be the starter, that much stronger I would presume

As for the comment of my favorite MLB player being put on the spotlight, if it were David than are you saying I am a fan of a dedicated athlete maximizing his God given potential and making it to the pros, am I a fan of the under dog who has more to fight for and improve on? Of course, who wouldn't root for the one who has something to prove? I hope the friendly debate isn't turning argumentative? Because Im just unclear about the baseball reference if I didn't hit it on the nose prior to this statement?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I do think looking up statistical info is like the pencial pushers of the sports world, although they are on paper, they can not hold a correct stat on potential, its just probability.

Stats are the only objective evidence we have, and they definitively prove that Crist was a better QB last year. Everything else is just hand waving.

Im not sure why you compare both QB's in Kellys system to the college experience that Crist holds over Rees. Im just pleading a case that Rees made plays with what he had, remember. No Rudolph and a WR converted to running back.

There wasn't a lot of difference between their receivers, except that Crist was throwing to a hamstrung Rudolph, and a Floyd that kept getting lost in double coverage.

So it is way too far fetched to just say they each are experienced in Kellys system and not taking into consideration that Dayne has significantly more CFB experience than Rees.

He didn't, and still doesn't. Dayne was a first year starter in 2010, and had no spread experience. If anything his time spent learning Weis' pro-style offense was probably a disadvantage compared to Rees who played in the spread in high school and came in as a blank slate.

And for the Navy game, we'll never know. Im glad the D flipped a switch keep it up I say, just makes Rees's candidacy to be the starter, that much stronger I would presume

Was Rees out there making tackles too? He gets absolutely no credit for our late season defensive renaissance.

 

[TDHeysus]

I just watched the Spring game on DVR, and I am convinced ND's defense is going to be the biggest surprise to the rest of the country. (at least with regards to ND)

I think most of the country thinks ND's defense is not anything to pay attention to; I really believe the defense versus the run is going to be dominating. Against the pass might the weak point of the defense, but I'm not saying its going to be weak. The emergence of a player like Collinsworth cannot be overlooked, I think he is one of the players that is going to make a huge difference on the defense. (you know the other names, and dont forget about Stephon Tuitt)

Another thing, I reallly believe the defense is going to get better and better with each game. I think its going to start out dominating, and only get better.

South Florida will be lucky to face ND's defense in game 1, rather than Game 12

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Stats are the only objective evidence we have.

Rees is undefeated as a starter. Good stat. I am hoping for Crist to start and have a great season.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Rees is undefeated as a starter. Good stat. I am hoping for Crist to start and have a great season.

I'm undefeated in bed with your mama.

Beat the Bulls!

 

[greyhammer90]

Rees is undefeated as a starter. Good stat. I am hoping for Crist to start and have a great season.

While this is technically true I get really tired of reading it. Rees played 3 and 1/4's quarters and threw the game ending interception. That was his game. He's 3-1.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I'm undefeated in bed with your mama.

Beat the Bulls!

Ooh...you...

Your momma just poured me some wine. We are playing hide and go seek.

 

[zsteele15]

Well, there goes the neighborhood! We threw a momma joke in there! High school is a little different than college, personally I don't care if Rees has that edge. That was high school, this is Notre Dame. And for Weis, I do remeber seeing alot more spread towards the end of his reign than thebpro style offense you are referencing to?? My point is Rees took advantage with what he had, he made the most of it. His 4-0 record so far says some of that. Not to say he is the next Montana or Theisman, he's producing wins and that's what matters. I personally do not care about Crists better average in YPG or his completion to interception ratio. Rees still has much to prove and I hope he gets the opportunity.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Well, there goes the neighborhood! We threw a momma joke in there! High school is a little different than college, personally I don't care if Rees has that edge. That was high school, this is Notre Dame. And for Weis, I do remeber seeing alot more spread towards the end of his reign than thebpro style offense you are referencing to??

My only point is that Crist was not, and still is not, more experienced than Rees. Rees apologists tend to mistakenly think of Crist as this grizzled veteran who's had his opportunity and wasted it, while Rees is a scrappy true freshman with unlimited potential. Crist only saw about 3 minutes of game time prior to this season.

Both Crist and Rees had the exact same amount of time to learn Kelly's system. If you factor in the near half that Crist missed of the Michigan game, and the 3 quarters that Rees played against Tulsa, they both played about 6.5 games this season.

My point is Rees took advantage with what he had, he made the most of it. His 4-0 record so far says some of that.

I agree with greyhammer that Tulsa was Rees' game, so if we're being honest, he's 4-1.

Rees still has much to prove and I hope he gets the opportunity.

There's nothing wrong with that statement. But if you want to argue that Rees was better than Crist in 2010, or that he deserves to start in 2011, you'll need to offer some credible evidence (which will be difficult to produce.)

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

While this is technically true I get really tired of reading it. Rees played 3 and 1/4's quarters and threw the game ending interception. That was his game. He's 3-1.

Yeah, he was thrown out there his first game.

JohnnyK, that looks like the steeplechase. Gosh I cringe at that event. Sadistic and masochistic event. Pole vault anyone?

 

[Rhode Irish]

Just some quick replies from me. I don't want to further belabor the point, but I'd like to take one more shot at this even though I assume it will be futile.

Im not sure why you compare both QB's in Kellys system to the college experience that Crist holds over Rees . . .

Easy. Because you said this in an earlier post:

I just think he's an ok QB almost outta here, and Rees is just starting his career . . . it is way too far fetched to just say they each are experienced in Kellys system and not taking into consideration that Dayne has significantly more CFB experience than Rees.

Crist is not almost out of here. He is entering his 3rd year of eligibility - one year ahead of Rees. In terms of development and experience, they are almost in exactly the same place. They each have played about a half a season of CFB and they each have been in the system since the spring of 2010. Your argument seems based on the idea that Crist has peaked and Tommy hasn't hit his prime yet, and that simply isn't true. They are at nearly identical places in their development (age aside) and both have multiple years of eligibility left. In that situation, I don't see how you don't take the guy with more upside (upside = skill + potential).

I get that you don't like stats (not sure how that works; it is like hating the truth), but the stats clearly show Crist was more effective at QB than Rees. I get that its ultimately about wins-losses, but W/L is a team stat, not an individual one. The biggest difference in the team over the last four games compared to the first nine was not the QB, it was the defense. Although stats would clearly show you this, you don't need them. A knowledgeable football fan would conclude the same thing from watching those games. I hope you would agree at least on this point.

As for the comment of my favorite MLB player being put on the spotlight, if it were David than are you saying I am a fan of a dedicated athlete maximizing his God given potential and making it to the pros, am I a fan of the under dog who has more to fight for and improve on? Of course, who wouldn't root for the one who has something to prove?

Sure, I like scrappy guys. But they are still what their numbers say they are, for better or worse. On a personal level, I root for the underdog, too. Personnel decisions cannot factor that in, though. No matter how much you like Eckstein and hate stats, it doesn't change the fact he hit 35 HRs in 5700 career plate appearances; and no matter how much you like Rees and hate stats, doesn't change the fact that he throws an interception twice as frequently as Crist.

I hope the friendly debate isn't turning argumentative? Because Im just unclear about the baseball reference if I didn't hit it on the nose prior to this statement?

No at all, my man. And I apologize for not welcoming you aboard earlier. So, welcome! We can disagree and try to support our arguments here without it being personal. By no means should you ever feel like you're not welcome to express your thoughts and opinions, just be prepared to explain/defend/support them (sometime with stats!) if other posters disagree.

I made the baseball point trying to make an analogy. Eckstein is famous as being the heartthrob of anti-stats knuckledraggers who love guys who "play the right way," whether they are actually productive or not. I see pro-Rees people in the same light.

Personally, I choose embrace information because it helps us quantify what we see, give it context and take biases out of the equation. Stats are objective, and knowledge is power!

 

[Domina Nostra]

I think that if we had eased Dayne into the offense more slowly, starting him off with the conservative offense that we ran with Tommy, he would have been much more effective and the offense would have progressed a lot more consistently.

This was not an option, however, because the defense was not running on all cylinders until after Navy.

 

[johnnykillz]

Yeah, he was thrown out there his first game.

JohnnyK, that looks like the steeplechase. Gosh I cringe at that event. Sadistic and masochistic event. Pole vault anyone?

I'm not much of a track guy, but that sounds daunting to say the least.

 

[zsteele15]

My only point is that Crist was not, and still is not, more experienced than Rees. Rees apologists tend to mistakenly think of Crist as this grizzled veteran who's had his opportunity and wasted it, while Rees is a scrappy true freshman with unlimited potential. Crist only saw about 3 minutes of game time prior to this season.

Both Crist and Rees had the exact same amount of time to learn Kelly's system. If you factor in the near half that Crist missed of the Michigan game, and the 3 quarters that Rees played against Tulsa, they both played about 6.5 games this season.



I agree with greyhammer that Tulsa was Rees' game, so if we're being honest, he's 4-1.



There's nothing wrong with that statement. But if you want to argue that Rees was better than Crist in 2010, or that he deserves to start in 2011, you'll need to offer some credible evidence (which will be difficult to produce.)

Well we can't say anything really about the Tulsa game, the tone was already set with an injury to Crist, so if we have to be technical about it, that only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. I never said that Rees had a better season than Crist, I am not stating statistical facts, merely an opinion based debate over who I think stands a better chance to win with Rees as the starter. I most def. see your point when we put stats into the mix which are facts, I am just an avid Rees fan, simply rooting for the underdog. GO IRISH

 

[zsteele15]

I think that if we had eased Dayne into the offense more slowly, starting him off with the conservative offense that we ran with Tommy, he would have been much more effective and the offense would have progressed a lot more consistently.

This was not an option, however, because the defense was not running on all cylinders until after Navy.

The only time we have seen a conservative offense last season is when Crist finally went down and Rees was not yet familiar with the playbook so they had to use fractions of it and broke it down. I thought he did simply fine with that scenario.

I'm not sure how we can be conservative with Dayne Crist in a Spread Offense with a primarily dominant passing scheme. I'm not sure how you can ease him back into the system when he already knows the system and has some success throwing the ball and being mobile, but that has let us down before.

Simplicity and being conservative lies with Rees in my opinion.

 

[zsteele15]

Just some quick replies from me. I don't want to further belabor the point, but I'd like to take one more shot at this even though I assume it will be futile.



Easy. Because you said this in an earlier post:



Crist is not almost out of here. He is entering his 3rd year of eligibility - one year ahead of Rees. In terms of development and experience, they are almost in exactly the same place. They each have played about a half a season of CFB and they each have been in the system since the spring of 2010. Your argument seems based on the idea that Crist has peaked and Tommy hasn't hit his prime yet, and that simply isn't true. They are at nearly identical places in their development (age aside) and both have multiple years of eligibility left. In that situation, I don't see how you don't take the guy with more upside (upside = skill + potential).

I get that you don't like stats (not sure how that works; it is like hating the truth), but the stats clearly show Crist was more effective at QB than Rees. I get that its ultimately about wins-losses, but W/L is a team stat, not an individual one. The biggest difference in the team over the last four games compared to the first nine was not the QB, it was the defense. Although stats would clearly show you this, you don't need them. A knowledgeable football fan would conclude the same thing from watching those games. I hope you would agree at least on this point.



Sure, I like scrappy guys. But they are still what their numbers say they are, for better or worse. On a personal level, I root for the underdog, too. Personnel decisions cannot factor that in, though. No matter how much you like Eckstein and hate stats, it doesn't change the fact he hit 35 HRs in 5700 career plate appearances; and no matter how much you like Rees and hate stats, doesn't change the fact that he throws an interception twice as frequently as Crist.



No at all, my man. And I apologize for not welcoming you aboard earlier. So, welcome! We can disagree and try to support our arguments here without it being personal. By no means should you ever feel like you're not welcome to express your thoughts and opinions, just be prepared to explain/defend/support them (sometime with stats!) if other posters disagree.

I made the baseball point trying to make an analogy. Eckstein is famous as being the heartthrob of anti-stats knuckledraggers who love guys who "play the right way," whether they are actually productive or not. I see pro-Rees people in the same light.

Personally, I choose embrace information because it helps us quantify what we see, give it context and take biases out of the equation. Stats are objective, and knowledge is power!

No no, I actually liked the welcome that you expressed earlier, def. not being confrontational. I actually like Dustin Pedroia if we're being honest. (Wheres the irony in that) haha
I realize that facts are backed up with stats I am just being optimistic with hopefully Rees making great leaps and bounds to become the starter for this season. Just a little over a month until kickoff! I sure hope I can find a descent seat and a nice enough hotel that wont cost alot!haha

 

[Rocket89]

The only time we have seen a conservative offense last season is when Crist finally went down and Rees was not yet familiar with the playbook so they had to use fractions of it and broke it down. I thought he did simply fine with that scenario.

I'm not sure how we can be conservative with Dayne Crist in a Spread Offense with a primarily dominant passing scheme. I'm not sure how you can ease him back into the system when he already knows the system and has some success throwing the ball and being mobile, but that has let us down before.

Simplicity and being conservative lies with Rees in my opinion.

I think the Purdue game was a good example of the offense being fairly conservative and still being pretty effective. I myself remember getting a little restless because we weren't throwing the ball deep at all and we were kind of expecting to hit some of those passes.

That game is a sign to me that Crist can be a very dangerous QB for us. People seem to think he stumbled out of the gate, but he really played great against Purdue for it being his first start. I think we're going to see an even better Crist come September 3rd.

 

[Rocket89]

Yes it's ok to have an average QB that wins games and takes care of the ball, or we can have Crist who is injury prone and takes shots down field that end up as incompletes or INT'S. I'll take Rees who has room to improve and can only get better with work and experience.

Rees turned the ball over far more often. Every quarterback on the roster has room to improve and get better, and Rees has the least amount of potential.

Also, Clausen faced deadly USC defenses. Rees faced the worst Trojan defense in a decade or longer.

USC's defense is still talented, but plenty of other teams ripped them apart last year. The game at the Coliseum is a picture perfect example of what can go wrong with Rees under center.

We threw the ball 34 times....and gained 149 yards.

Every single team USC played threw for more yards against them.

11 of USC's 13 opponents threw for over 6.0 yards per attempt, with 6 throwing for over 7.0 yards per attempt.

We threw for 4.4 yards per attempt....lowest by far that USC gave up.

Our 4 turnovers were the most for USC in a game all last year. All Rees picks and a fumble.

This is what will happen when ND faces a fast and aggressive defense with an immobile QB who can't drive the ball down the field. Even the screen passes and slants to counteract the pressure from these good defenses are not going to do a lot of damage, as this game clearly proved.

 

[zsteele15]

Rees turned the ball over far more often. Every quarterback on the roster has room to improve and get better, and Rees has the least amount of potential.

Also, Clausen faced deadly USC defenses. Rees faced the worst Trojan defense in a decade or longer.

USC's defense is still talented, but plenty of other teams ripped them apart last year. The game at the Coliseum is a picture perfect example of what can go wrong with Rees under center.

We threw the ball 34 times....and gained 149 yards.

Every single team USC played threw for more yards against them.

11 of USC's 13 opponents threw for over 6.0 yards per attempt, with 6 throwing for over 7.0 yards per attempt.

We threw for 4.4 yards per attempt....lowest by far that USC gave up.

Our 4 turnovers were the most for USC in a game all last year. All Rees picks and a fumble.

This is what will happen when ND faces a fast and aggressive defense with an immobile QB who can't drive the ball down the field. Even the screen passes and slants to counteract the pressure from these good defenses are not going to do a lot of damage, as this game clearly proved.[/QUOte

Although Rees did have a sub par game, he still got the W at the Coliseum and as a true freshman I think that lies a challenge in its self, Yes we threw the ball for only 149 yds, but remember he did not have his deadly tight end Rudolph and luckily Hughes decided to show up that game, but I think if Alderidge was not hurt that game, maybe the screen to the halfback could have been more affective.

Yes USC was on the downfall, but any win away from home, especially at USC is a bonus, not to mention up until that point, we had not beatin them in what 6 or 7 years! I wont mention the Reggie Bush Push a few years ago! That in and of its self was a major heart breaker.

Rees did drive the ball down field though, how do you think they score TD's? yes maybe it took him a little longer with the short throws and draw plays but if they're winning and beating USC as well as other rivals, I will take that any way. You can't keep telling me that Rees has little room for improvement, that is merely an opinion based argument and has to be thrown out. What I think i have the room to say is that he is very young and only has room to improve, that goes for any young QB anywhere, age comes improvement, comes experience....

 

[Rocket89]

Although Rees did have a sub par game, he still got the W at the Coliseum and as a true freshman I think that lies a challenge in its self, Yes we threw the ball for only 149 yds, but remember he did not have his deadly tight end Rudolph and luckily Hughes decided to show up that game, but I think if Alderidge was not hurt that game, maybe the screen to the halfback could have been more affective.

Just....stop.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Although Rees did have a sub par game, he still got the W at the Coliseum and as a true freshman I think that lies a challenge in its self, Yes we threw the ball for only 149 yds, but remember he did not have his deadly tight end Rudolph and luckily Hughes decided to show up that game, but I think if Alderidge was not hurt that game, maybe the screen to the halfback could have been more affective.

Hamstrung Rudy was anything but deadly in his last three games of 2010: 1-1/0 against Stanford, 1-2/1 against BC, and 5-38/0 against Pitt. Eifert stepped in and, being healthy, produced more consistently than Rudy had. He was 3-36/0 against USC, so I'd hardly say Rees' lack of a hamstrung Rudy hurt his numbers.

Rees did drive the ball down field though, how do you think they score TD's? yes maybe it took him a little longer with the short throws and draw plays but if they're winning and beating USC as well as other rivals, I will take that any way.

If the Irish defense hadn't played its best game in 20 years, we don't win that game. We won in spite of Rees that night, not because of him.

You can't keep telling me that Rees has little room for improvement, that is merely an opinion based argument and has to be thrown out.

Rees is the least athletic QB on our roster. He got the nod last year due to his poise, accuracy, and knowledge of Kelly's system. Unfortunately for Rees, all of those traits are things that the other QBs can and will learn with more coaching; Rees can't learn to have a stronger arm or to be more mobile. It's just a matter of time before the other QBs close the knowledge gap and overtake Rees with their athleticism, if it hasn't happened already.

 

[Anchorman]

Not to mention that even with the defensive game of the year, if the SC receiver knew how to catch the ball we lose anyway.

 

[Rhode Irish]

You can't keep telling me that Rees has little room for improvement, that is merely an opinion based argument and has to be thrown out.

EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID IN THIS THREAD IS OPINION-BASED ARGUMENT.

At least we are trying to supply some evidence to support our position. Not sure why we are bothering to do that, since you have ignored every fact-based point that has been made since this conversation started.

This has to stop. We are just going around in circles here, to the point that I'm starting to suspect trolling.

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

Just....stop.

Now that’s funny!! (Alderidge?!?!?)

Zsteele, I have been reading the comments from the past two days, and I think I have understood why you think Rees is the better prospect to start. I thoroughly respect what Rees did for ND last year, and I don't think I'll ever forget, but facts are FACTS. Rocket, Rhode, Whiskey, et al, are all pointing out FACTS. These are not things that they "believe could" happen, but rather DID HAPPEN!!

Any way you slice it, Rees LIMITS the offense. Slants, screens, etc, this isn’t Pop Warner or High School football anymore. While those plays are very effective plays against aggressive defenses, they CANNOT BE UTILIZED THE WHOLE GAME!! You have to show teams that you are capable of stretching the field. I think everybody here acknowledges that it’s possible that Rees could improve his arm strength and mobility, but right now Crist dominates him in those categories.

Ignoring the fact that the defense was the primary reason that Irish won the last 4 games last year, is just asinine. Rees managed the games well for the most part (minus USC IMO), but to say, well Rees went 4-0 and Crist couldn't do that is completely baseless. I would venture to say that if our defense was playing the way they did with Rees in the game, Crist would have gone undefeated, or a single loss to Stanford.

 

[zsteele15]

EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID IN THIS THREAD IS OPINION-BASED ARGUMENT.

At least we are trying to supply some evidence to support our position. Not sure why we are bothering to do that, since you have ignored every fact-based point that has been made since this conversation started.

This has to stop. We are just going around in circles here, to the point that I'm starting to suspect trolling.

Trust me I know that what I have said is only implementing the fact that it is all opinion based on my part, I have profusely expressed that, and yes your debates are statistical. So I'm honestly not sure why you're getting upset over the fact that my mere argument is that I like Rees over Crist. Kinda like some people love the Redsox, some hate the Yankee's, vice versa. So I reckon you're beating a dead horse, oh well, I kinda like the debate going on. I mean you can express more stats if you want, but of course my side of this friendly debate states that I would take Rees over Crist and no matter what stats are being thrown out, and Yes, I know a statistical analysis is fact, I'm just going by opinions in hoping he's taking great strides in becoming the starter.

 

[zsteele15]

Now that’s funny!! (Alderidge?!?!?)

Zsteele, I have been reading the comments from the past two days, and I think I have understood why you think Rees is the better prospect to start. I thoroughly respect what Rees did for ND last year, and I don't think I'll ever forget, but facts are FACTS. Rocket, Rhode, Whiskey, et al, are all pointing out FACTS. These are not things that they "believe could" happen, but rather DID HAPPEN!!

Any way you slice it, Rees LIMITS the offense. Slants, screens, etc, this isn’t Pop Warner or High School football anymore. While those plays are very effective plays against aggressive defenses, they CANNOT BE UTILIZED THE WHOLE GAME!! You have to show teams that you are capable of stretching the field. I think everybody here acknowledges that it’s possible that Rees could improve his arm strength and mobility, but right now Crist dominates him in those categories.

Ignoring the fact that the defense was the primary reason that Irish won the last 4 games last year, is just asinine. Rees managed the games well for the most part (minus USC IMO), but to say, well Rees went 4-0 and Crist couldn't do that is completely baseless. I would venture to say that if our defense was playing the way they did with Rees in the game, Crist would have gone undefeated, or a single loss to Stanford.

The key word is "if" in your argument over the defense stepping up, it's just mere speculation. They def. were not playing to their potential in some of Crist's games, but clearly they had a different approach in the last 4 games. If you think it's pop warner to play small ball that's a suggestion, but we also have to look at other offenses who play certain schemes, Georigia Tech with the Triple option, and need I remind you of Navy and Dobbs in just the option, that is an aspect of a smash mouth ground game.

Why can they not utilize slants and screens a whole game if it works? I know they will change offensive schemes to give them the advantage to different types of defense but until then, I am satisfied with what they are doing or what they did with Rees

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Why can they not utilize slants and screens a whole game if it works?

A Screen is a constraint play; it only works when the defense starts getting over-aggressive. It doesn't work against a sound balanced defense.

Here's a good article that discusses the difference between a base offense and constraint plays.

 

[jonesman]

Steele,
You are asking us to accept a limited offense all year long with Rees. That is simply NOT acceptable. Now that opposing defenses have seen that Rees is ZERO running threat and limited in the verticle passing games, they will be adjusting to this.

I hear everyone telling us how Rees won 4 straight games including a bowl game. HOWEVER, Tommy actually tried to lose one, USC and had the other, Miami, handed to him on a silver platter. The DEFENSE won both those games.

I am not sold that Crist is going to be a super star, but he definitely has more upside than Tommy. He can run better, has a strong arm even though it can be suspect in accuracy.

Now let's get the discussion back to USF!!!!