inside the golden dome on CFL

[IrishSteelhead]

Listen, I don't agree with lying to recruits....

But grow up. This is big boy stuff and little girls don't win 2 National Titles.

Lou called a kid that decided to go to FSU(Scott Bentley) that Notre Dame really, really wanted and told the kid, "you will never amount to anything."

Coaches do shady things or they become ex-coaches.

Ara, Frank Leahy, Lou Holtz.... John Wooded, Dean Smith, John Calipari.... All of them do shady things. Get over yourself.

I've never been a fan of the "well everybody else is doing it" argument to justify inappropriate behavior. IMO, this is why we are morphing into a society filled with pampered brats with a sense of entitlement.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Listen, I don't agree with lying to recruits....

But grow up. This is big boy stuff and little girls don't win 2 National Titles.

Lou called a kid that decided to go to FSU(Scott Bentley) that Notre Dame really, really wanted and told the kid, "you will never amount to anything."

Coaches do shady things or they become ex-coaches.

Ara, Frank Leahy, Lou Holtz.... John Wooded, Dean Smith, John Calipari.... All of them do shady things. Get over yourself.

See, now you're getting personal. And the sad thing is, if you could comprehend what I said, then you'd realize that your post makes no sense.

Is anything I wrote untrue? Please show me where I lied or said anything remotely untrue, then point out what the lie was.

Next, please point out where I said that other coaches don't do shady things.

Next point out exactly WHY I need to get over myself. A poster said that Meyer wasn't unethical. I pointed that he is unethical. If you have a problem with that, then don't read message boards. There was nothing personal about my post, nor his...we just competely disagreed, which is fine. But you took it personal. And Lax already talked about the different shades of shadiness, so no need to rehash that, but I completely agree.

I find it funny that you're no fan of lying to recruits, but you qualify that by saying that it's my problem and I need to grow up LOL. Again, do some growing up of your own, read my post again, and try to come back with something better than "everybody is else is doing it, so you need to grow up."

Be better than that.

 

[Old Man Mike]

ND-in-LA is handling this discussion admirably, as we know he would. Others who are resorting to name-calling need to get better objectivity into their remarks if we're to ever 1). take them seriously; and 2). have a chance to learn anything from their perspective. [I really don't get the name-calling stuff ... what-the-hell's that all about??].

 

[Rhode Irish]

I honestly don't love riding fences, but I do see some merit to both sides here. As Notre Dame fans, we continuously deride the current culture surrounding college football. As NDinLA illustrated, it is a bit absurd to argue that Urban Meyer was not a part of that culture. So I don't think we should be on our high horse about the perils of the modern CFB culture, only to abandon that position when someone from that culture says something nice about us. Even if that someone used to be part of our football family.

On the other hand, I do empathize with Beau a little bit. He met Urban. Urban is no doubt a charming guy. I'm sure he comes off as very nice, honest and genuine. And I'm not going to say that it is all an act, either. I think that is is partly why he has been successful. I don't think the guy is evil, and is just acting like a normal human in public. I think there may be some validity to what OMM said (is there ever not?). I don't think it is a stretch to consider that Urban really is a good guy who let the pressure of winning and the culture surrounding a program like Florida influence the way he conducted himself. Maybe he had a crisis of conscience and decided he had lost touch with his own values and didn't want to do it anymore, and that is why he left.

Far be it for any of us to know for sure. We can have our own opinions, but just because someone disagrees doesn't make them an idiot or a bad person. What we do know is that those things highlighted in NDinLA's earlier post did happen. That does call into question Urban's strength of character, if not its content. However, he also can come across as a pretty genuine guy, and a nice guy. Maybe it is easier if things were black and white: he's either a nice guy or a shady scumbag. But I don't think its that simple. In fact, I can envision a scenario in which he is both.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I think calling Urban Meyer a unethical man is a little much because not one of us know him personally.

Does he have a histroy of being a unethical football coach? Yes. But may be that is what pushed him over the edge, and caused him to walk away.

People make mistakes, even good people, he was pressured into making tough decisions in a cut throat enviorment. Maybe he felt the guilt of his actions, and choose the high road out of it?

Not one of us know his motivations, or expierences that caused him to act the way he did, and act the way he is. We see things on the surface, and draw conclusions. Good people make mistakes.

St Paul aka Saul massacred many people before he saw the "light".

Personally, I don't know or care what Urban is or isn't. But judging him when we know very little about the situation, motivations..etc is not right.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I've never been a fan of the "well everybody else is doing it" argument to justify inappropriate behavior. IMO, this is why we are morphing into a society filled with pampered brats with a sense of entitlement.

I think the reason society is filled with pampered brats with a sense of entitlement is because people can't take the fact that life isn't fair, and people don't like you for many different reasons. Anti-bullying laws? Please. If you aren't tough enough to handle someone trying to take your lunch, you aren't going to beable to handle life. Medicating lifes problems? I'm stressed, here's a xanax. I can't concentrate..here's adderol. I'm depressed..here's a anti-depressant. We have this golden vision of a Utopian Society where everyone is equal, and treated fairly. Life's not fair, understand that, and you'll be fine.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I think the reason society is filled with pampered brats with a sense of entitlement is because people can't take the fact that life isn't fair, and people don't like you for many different reasons. Anti-bullying laws? Please. If you aren't tough enough to handle someone trying to take your lunch, you aren't going to beable to handle life. Medicating lifes problems? I'm stressed, here's a xanax. I can't concentrate..here's adderol. I'm depressed..here's a anti-depressant. We have this golden vision of a Utopian Society where everyone is equal, and treated fairly. Life's not fair, understand that, and you'll be fine.

Not to get totally off-topic, but I mostly agree with your premise. Especially with regard to how medicated (drugged) we are. But I don't agree on the bullying thing. Yes, if you are especially meek and cowardly, life will be difficult for you. But you don't need to be that way in order to be bullied as a child. Kids should be allowed to exist without being tormented because they aren't cool, or athletic, or whatever.

I moved when I was in fourth grade and kids were pricks to me when I started. By high school I was a 3 sport athlete, had lots of friends, and all of that stuff. Some kids I hung around with in high school would pick on other students, and I got into fights with my friends defending kids I really didn't know, because I knew what it was like to be singled out. Its sucks, and it is almost always the result of an insecure person with low self esteem picking on a socially weak person to make themselves feel better. Its cowardly.

And by the way, a lot of kids that got bullied in high school turned out to be really successful and - surprise! - were not socially inept weaklings. They just were not in the correct circle for whatever reason when they were 15, 16, 17. Not enough kids sacrificing their own values in order to fit and not get picked on is not the problem with our society. I reject that idea out of hand.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I think the reason society is filled with pampered brats with a sense of entitlement is because people can't take the fact that life isn't fair, and people don't like you for many different reasons. Anti-bullying laws? Please. If you aren't tough enough to handle someone trying to take your lunch, you aren't going to beable to handle life. Medicating lifes problems? I'm stressed, here's a xanax. I can't concentrate..here's adderol. I'm depressed..here's a anti-depressant. We have this golden vision of a Utopian Society where everyone is equal, and treated fairly. Life's not fair, understand that, and you'll be fine.

I like the way you think. Reps for telling it like it is.

 

[NDIrishlover3]

BeauBenken = OWNED

Great post, NDinL.A.

Wow what a great post IrishMoore1, because BeauBenken was so "OWNED" that you just had to gang up on him. NDinL.A. made a very good post to back up his point but is it really necessary to tell BeauBenken that he was owned? Because they were having a good discussion and you just had to make it competitive and immature. I have nothing against you and I am sorry if you are insulted by this post but it just really frustrates me when people make posts like yours. They are unnecessary and really unpleasant to read.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Wow what a great post IrishMoore1, because BeauBenken was so "OWNED" that you just had to gang up on him. NDinL.A. made a very good post to back up his point but is it really necessary to tell BeauBenken that he was owned? Because they were having a good discussion and you just had to make it competitive and immature. I have nothing against you and I am sorry if you are insulted by this post but it just really frustrates me when people make posts like yours. They are unnecessary and really unpleasant to read.

Ironic this post is directly below the one debating the pros/cons of bullying LOL.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Not to get totally off-topic, but I mostly agree with your premise. Especially with regard to how medicated (drugged) we are. But I don't agree on the bullying thing. Yes, if you are especially meek and cowardly, life will be difficult for you. But you don't need to be that way in order to be bullied as a child. Kids should be allowed to exist without being tormented because they aren't cool, or athletic, or whatever.

I moved when I was in fourth grade and kids were pricks to me when I started. By high school I was a 3 sport athlete, had lots of friends, and all of that stuff. Some kids I hung around with in high school would pick on other students, and I got into fights with my friends defending kids I really didn't know, because I knew what it was like to be singled out. Its sucks, and it is almost always the result of an insecure person with low self esteem picking on a socially weak person to make themselves feel better. Its cowardly.

And by the way, a lot of kids that got bullied in high school turned out to be really successful and - surprise! - were not socially inept weaklings. They just were not in the correct circle for whatever reason when they were 15, 16, 17. Not enough kids sacrificing their own values in order to fit and not get picked on is not the problem with our society. I reject that idea out of hand.

I was bullied too when I was young. Took it for a few years, and then told my dad about it. He said stand up, and defend yourself. Punched one kid, and he went home crying. Punched another kid, he gave me a bloody nose and black eye. I was never picked on again. Ever. Because I carried myself with confidence. Never picked on anyone.

You can settle most things without throwin hands, but like everything else in life, there is a time to fight.

Bullying will never stop. It'd be better to teach kids how/when to defend themselves rather then create a generation of soft weak people who cower at every instance of adversity.

God, I wish we were Sparta.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Look, I wasn't exactly "bullied" - when I was the new kid it was like I was speaking a different language. It was fourth grade. Fourth graders are ****heads. It probably took a month to make some friends (about the same amount of time it took for them to realize they should be picking me first for pick-up basketball at recess). The point isn't that I was bullied. Its that I know what kids can be like.

Kids are still developing their social skill as adolescents. Because a kid doesn't know how to deal with a bully when he is 15 doesn't mean he's going to be a failure in life. That is just wrong and uninformed. Should we be teaching kids to be tougher and more resourceful? Yes, definitely. Does that mean we should condone bullying, which has caused young boys and, particularly, girls to take their own lives, and which tends to be completely arbitrary and a product of mob-mentality thinking?

And I'm sorry, but you dealt with bullying for a few years and only figured out a way to handle it after you told your dad about it, so I'm not sure you qualify as an expert on the subject. Obviously, kids should be taught to stick up for themselves. But blaming them for being ostracized and picked on is like blaming a girl with a low-cut dress for being sexually assaulted. Whether or not you agree with the victim's behavior, it doesn't make what happened to them acceptable.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I was bullied too when I was young. Took it for a few years, and then told my dad about it. He said stand up, and defend yourself. Punched one kid, and he went home crying. Punched another kid, he gave me a bloody nose and black eye. I was never picked on again. Ever. Because I carried myself with confidence. Never picked on anyone.

You can settle most things without throwin hands, but like everything else in life, there is a time to fight.

Bullying will never stop. It'd be better to teach kids how/when to defend themselves rather then create a generation of soft weak people who cower at every instance of adversity.

God, I wish we were Sparta.

Agree. Not to sound rude, but if you don't want to grow some guts and stand-up, then your only option is to pinpoint the source of the bully's aggression (Dungeons and Dragons, etc.) and perhaps think about assimilating to a more "normal" image.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

One thing to keep in mind when discussing ethics is that the opinion of what is ethical is exactly that - an opinion. My ethics might be slightly different than someone else.

I don't know Urban Meyer personally. I have never met the man. He might be a great father, usher at his church every Sunday, donate tons of money to charity, help old ladies cross the street, and just be an all around great guy in his personal life. However, his actions for the advancement of his career and the pursuit of excellence on the football field give me reason for my views and opinions regarding his ethical makeup. I don't think he has conducted himself in a very ethical way during his coaching tenure.

Urban was in an influential position where his actions during recruiting directly affected the lives of very impressionable young men who, at 17 or 18 years old, might not be very well equipped or emotionally developed to make a wise decision. I do not believe he was always looking out for the best interests of the players he was involved with during recruiting or during their time playing under him.

Some would argue that his job was to win football games and everything else be damned to achieve that goal. I disagree. I think he had a higher obligation to provide guidance to these athletes that lacked social and/or emotional tools to make good decisions at that point in their lives. He should have been looking at whether or not his team was the right fit for the player, not just the other way around.

Additionally, Urban's level celebrity brought him even more opportunity to do what was right and hold himself to a higher standard and promote student athletes. I played basketball for one of the truly "good guys" in college sports - Homer Drew. He does things the right way, but not many people know his name. Urban could have used his notoriety to really create change in college sports.

However, low graduation rates, numerous run-ins with the law by players, and a reputation for skirting the rules in recruiting all contribute to my belief that he is not an ethical person. I don't need to know him to make that determination.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

One thing to keep in mind when discussing ethics is that the opinion of what is ethical is exactly that - an opinion. My ethics might be slightly different than someone else.

I don't know Urban Meyer personally. I have never met the man. He might be a great father, usher at his church every Sunday, donate tons of money to charity, help old ladies cross the street, and just be an all around great guy in his personal life. However, his actions for the advancement of his career and the pursuit of excellence on the football field give me reason for my views and opinions regarding his ethical makeup. I don't think he has conducted himself in a very ethical way during his coaching tenure.

Urban was in an influential position where his actions during recruiting directly affected the lives of very impressionable young men who, at 17 or 18 years old, might not be very well equipped or emotionally developed to make a wise decision. I do not believe he was always looking out for the best interests of the players he was involved with during recruiting or during their time playing under him.

Some would argue that his job was to win football games and everything else be damned to achieve that goal. I disagree. I think he had a higher obligation to provide guidance to these athletes that lacked social and/or emotional tools to make good decisions at that point in their lives. He should have been looking at whether or not his team was the right fit for the player, not just the other way around.

Additionally, Urban's level celebrity brought him even more opportunity to do what was right and hold himself to a higher standard and promote student athletes. I played basketball for one of the truly "good guys" in college sports - Homer Drew. He does things the right way, but not many people know his name. Urban could have used his notoriety to really create change in college sports.

However, low graduation rates, numerous run-ins with the law by players, and a reputation for skirting the rules in recruiting all contribute to my belief that he is not an ethical person. I don't need to know him to make that determination.

Sounds like his son is choosing a different path as a HC, but once again that's all speculatory.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Look, I wasn't exactly "bullied" - when I was the new kid it was like I was speaking a different language. It was fourth grade. Fourth graders are ****heads. It probably took a month to make some friends (about the same amount of time it took for them to realize they should be picking me first for pick-up basketball at recess). The point isn't that I was bullied. Its that I know what kids can be like.

Kids are still developing their social skill as adolescents. Because a kid doesn't know how to deal with a bully when he is 15 doesn't mean he's going to be a failure in life. That is just wrong and uninformed. Should we be teaching kids to be tougher and more resourceful? Yes, definitely. Does that mean we should condone bullying, which has caused young boys and, particularly, girls to take their own lives, and which tends to be completely arbitrary and a product of mob-mentality thinking?

And I'm sorry, but you dealt with bullying for a few years and only figured out a way to handle it after you told your dad about it, so I'm not sure you qualify as an expert on the subject. Obviously, kids should be taught to stick up for themselves. But blaming them for being ostracized and picked on is like blaming a girl with a low-cut dress for being sexually assaulted. Whether or not you agree with the victim's behavior, it doesn't make what happened to them acceptable.

lol I was like 7 or 8. Not like 17. Who else am I going to ask? No bullying should be not condoned, but pretending like its going to go away is ignorant, and dangerous. And, I am not blaming anyone for being ostracized, noone deserves to be picked on. It just happens, and is the way it is. Things happen in life, and they have to be dealt with by the individual. No state law/class/policy is going to change the expierences life throws at you.

I never claimed to be a "expert", I have my opinion. What makes you an expert? And my opinion wrong?

 

[Rhode Irish]

I'm not an expert, and I'm not even saying you're wrong. Based on your last response, I'd say our opinions aren't even all that different. I'm just saying, when you're 7 or 8, or even 15, you don't always have all the answers. And if you feel isolated at that age, life can be difficult. My thought when I was in high school was that those with social cache should use it to discourage bullying, not participate in it. And conspicuous harassment among kids should be dealt with by schools the same way it would be in the workplace with adults. We probably don't need federal laws about bullying, just common sense and decency. And also, there's a difference between busting chops and an eggshell of a kid not being able to take it and serious harassment.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I'm not an expert, and I'm not even saying you're wrong. Based on your last response, I'd say our opinions aren't even all that different. I'm just saying, when you're 7 or 8, or even 15, you don't always have all the answers. And if you feel isolated at that age, life can be difficult. My thought when I was in high school was that those with social cache should use it to discourage bullying, not participate in it. And conspicuous harassment among kids should be dealt with by schools the same way it would be in the workplace with adults. We probably don't need federal laws about bullying, just common sense and decency. And also, there's a difference between busting chops and an eggshell of a kid not being able to take it and serious harassment.

I 110% agree. Breaking balls is one thing, but harrassing a peer to the point he/she hates himself is wrong. Also, you're right, kids with social clout should defend those whom can't defend themselves. I will raise my children to be that way, as I was raised.

I torture my friends, and they do to me. But, thats different then viciously attacking someone who can't handle it.

Don't get me wrong, I was not sticking up for "bullies", my point is that teaching your child from a young age that it's okay to defend yourself when the situation arises. I have seen kids, and know parents who would rather have their child picked on, then deal with him getting suspended for punching the bully.

 

[NDinFL]

I agree with NDinLA, and I think OMM put it the best... to paraphrase:

"when a man is at work he has to change his mindset, whether it be for good or bad"

Urban Meyer may be a saint when he isn't dealing with head coaching responsibilites, but that isn't the point.

While he is/was/will be again, a head coach, his tactics have been proven, and they are unethical and deceitful.

Personally, one of the main reasons I've been such a strong and passionate ND fan is because I can read damaging stories about other colleges, (FSU, Bama, tOSU, the U, etc..) and KNOW that "my school" wouldn't do that.

Would I sacrifice the professional integrity, standards, and moral compass of Notre Dame to win multiple titles? NO SIR

I don't care if that puts me in the minority....

 

[BeauBenken]

Alright. Hardest blow of that was the cheap shot of me playing the name game. I didn't expect that. As for lying to recruits and all that, I don't think that means he lacks integrity but I guess that could be just me. And quite honestly, all I was asking for was some backed facts, quotes etc. to justify your claims of him not having integrity which you did. I wasn't trying to attack you personally or anything of the sort so I don't know why this turned into something that aligned me with Urban.

I shouldn't have responded the first time, but I don't like seeing someone take shots unless they have some sort of defense. Anyways, sorry I caused this big disruption.

And if it makes any of you feel better, then yes, I got owned lol

 

[NDinFL]

I wouldn't even use that phrase, "owned" how stupid.

I respect your opinion Beau, I just thoroughly disagree with it...

I think lying to 17-18 year old high school kids compromises one's integrity.

 

[NDinL.A.]

On bullying...

I've been an educator for 10 years, and have worked with inner-city youth for 18 years. I currently work in South Central L.A., right near USC. I have to say, all due respect, I disagree with those who say anti-bullying laws should be outlawed and kids should just 'stick up for themselves.' You ever try to stand up to a little future gangster (knowing his brothers all bang as well) with all his buddies backing him up? All this b.s. about standing up to bullies sounds great on paper, until they jump you and you go home with a concussion and three broken ribs.

Now, I agree that when possible, you need to stand up on your own and say enough is enough. But there are different degrees to bullying, and believe me, seeing it first hand as a student and now as a teacher, hell yeah, there needs to be anti-bullying rules/laws to put these pricks in their place. A 90 pound kid, no matter how many lessons he gets on how to fight bullying, has no defense against a kid twice his size who has absolutely no fear of repercussions from parents/teachers. That punk-*** bully picks on the little guy until the kid no longer wants to even live. And I'm not being dramatic here - this crap happens all the time.

(Now think about the kid who doesn't have a father or any other role models to turn to when being bullied. What recourse does he have?)

At my school, a Catholic school, we try to educated the bullies, before they are bullies, to just be good people, to be 'imago dei' - images of God. We also try and teach the kids how to stand up to bullies (when possible), and when they do see bullying - be the person that sticks up for the little guy. And we take bullying very seriously. Multiple offenses mean expulsion.

In the Bible, Matthew wrote, "The meek shall inherit the earth." He didn't mean the weak...he meant those that are humble, considerate, and gentle non-violent. We try to teach that and to live that. That is our way of making the school, for EVERYONE, a safe haven from pricks that try to bully kids.

Anyway, jumping off the soapbox here. We're all Irish fans, and it's OK to disagree; let's just keep it civil.

Oh, and Urban Meyer has no morals!!!!!!!!!!!! (just kidding!) (kind of)

 

[NDinL.A.]

Alright. Hardest blow of that was the cheap shot of me playing the name game. I didn't expect that. As for lying to recruits and all that, I don't think that means he lacks integrity but I guess that could be just me. And quite honestly, all I was asking for was some backed facts, quotes etc. to justify your claims of him not having integrity which you did. I wasn't trying to attack you personally or anything of the sort so I don't know why this turned into something that aligned me with Urban.

I shouldn't have responded the first time, but I don't like seeing someone take shots unless they have some sort of defense. Anyways, sorry I caused this big disruption.

And if it makes any of you feel better, then yes, I got owned lol

It's all good bro. I just disagreed, but I had no problem with your post at all. Cheers!

 

[tommyIRISH23]

On bullying...

I've been an educator for 10 years, and have worked with inner-city youth for 18 years. I currently is South Central L.A., right near USC. I have to say, all due respect, I disagree with those who say anti-bullying laws should be outlawed and kids should just 'stick up for themselves.' You ever try to stand up to a little future gangster (knowing his brothers all bang as well) with all his buddies backing him up? All this b.s. about standing up to bullies sounds great on paper, until they jump you and you go home with a concussion and three broken ribs.

Now, I agree that when possible, you need to stand up on your own and say enough is enough. But there are different degrees to bullying, and believe me, seeing it first hand as a student and now as a teacher, hell yeah, there needs to be anti-bullying rules/laws to put these pricks in their place. A 90 pound kid, no matter how many lessons he gets on how to fight bullying, has no defense against a kid twice his size who has absolutely no fear of reprecussions from parents/teachers. That punk-*** bully pick on the little guy until the kid no longer wants to even live. And I'm not being dramatic here - this crap happens all the time.

(Now think about the kid who doesn't have a father or any other role models to turn to when being bullied. What recourse does he have?)

At my school, a Catholic school, we try to educated the bullies, before they are bullies, to just be good people, to be 'imago dei' - images of God. We also try and teach the kids how to stand up to bullies (when possible), and when they see bullying - be the person that sticks up for the little guy. And we take bullying very seriously. Multiple offenses mean expulsion.

In the Bible, Matthew wrote, "The meek shall inherit the earth." He didn't mean the weak...he meant those that are humble, considerate, and gentle non-violent. We try to teach that and to live that. That is our way of making the school, for EVERYONE, a safe haven from pricks that try to bully kids.

Anyway, jumping off the soapbox here. We're all Irish fans, and it's OK to disagree; let's just keep it civil.

Oh, and Urban Meyer has no morals!!!!!!!!!!!! (just kidding!) (kind of)

There's varying degree's of bullying. Joe taking Johns lunch money, and giving him a wedgie is different then Mark holding a knife to karls throat, and karl getting his blooded brother to shoot Mark. That's a WHOLE different issue all together. Bullying, there's a line between picking on, and criminal activity..agg assault..even homicide.

And, most of the schools with "anti-bullying law" that prohibit aggresive behavior like dodge ball/tag are not inner-city school where bullying turns into homicide, they are middle-upper class.

There the scenario of tattle tal-ing"you stole my pencil, and hid my lunch" and there's the scenario of "dude has a gun/gang, and is hunting me after school" so i go to the police. That's not bullying, thats criminal activity that should be dealt with by arrests/cops and jail.

I don't think we can generalize these issues because the motivations for both aren't one in the same.

 

[BeauBenken]

And I guess my first post was misleadingly too. I think Meyer is a man of integrity...most of the time. I'm sure he's done plenty of iffy things, but so have I and I like to think I still have integrity.

NDinLA, I've always respected your posts btw seeing as you always seemed to know your stuff...clearly you do.

As for bullying, I don't know a whole lot other than what I've seen. There's picking on people and then there's being complete jerks. I've gone off on people at school before because they were being complete jerks to other kids. I don't think they usually see how big of an impact they're attitude towards another affects that other person.

First step to making everyone else better people though? Start with yourself.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PivWY9wn5ps" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[IrishBlood81]

This whole thread got way off topic...it should atl east be in the thread of Kelly ESPN Interview.

 

[NDinFL]

This whole thread got way off topic...it should atl east be in the thread of Kelly ESPN Interview.

agreed.

 

[BestBIrish47]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7IU1bzZheWk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[RyCo1983]

awww
I <3 you guys

In hindsight I must apologize for starting you guys's war by my cross words about Urban.
I did chuckle while he spoke of what he did though. I should have worded it better.

My bad

GO IRISH!

 

[BeauBenken]

Boy was this thread fun bahahaha I love the vid BestBIrish47