Dayne Crist has got to Carry the ball?

BeatSC

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In order for this offense to really work the defense has got to show respect for all facets and threats of Kelly's spread offense. In order to do that the QB has got to keep the ball on the read option alot more. The QB has also got to take off and pick up yards. Dayne has a gretaer chance of getting hurt by becoming a sitting duck when the DL pin their ears back for the rush. If we ned to do this or pull out additional variations of the wildcat then we need to do it. Being able to create this threat will keep the D honest. right now our opponents D does not feel ND is willing to run Crist more than once a game. Even JC took off and ran more often. Go ahead and let Floyd give it a try. Our dinking and dunking the ball last week was weak and unimaginitive. Our first drive against Michigan was gold because we mixed things up. I know Dayne took a hit but we have to play our game.
 

GDomer09

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In order for this offense to really work the defense has got to show respect for all facets and threats of Kelly's spread offense. In order to do that the QB has got to keep the ball on the read option alot more. The QB has also got to take off and pick up yards. Dayne has a gretaer chance of getting hurt by becoming a sitting duck when the DL pin their ears back for the rush. If we ned to do this or pull out additional variations of the wildcat then we need to do it. Being able to create this threat will keep the D honest. right now our opponents D does not feel ND is willing to run Crist more than once a game. Even JC took off and ran more often. Go ahead and let Floyd give it a try. Our dinking and dunking the ball last week was weak and unimaginitive. Our first drive against Michigan was gold because we mixed things up. I know Dayne took a hit but we have to play our game.


I agree...we're not getting much done with our running game, so DC being a running threat should open up other opperunities. The fact that the statment, "JC took off and ran more often", is currently true, baffles me. I thought that is what DC was good at as well as throwing.
 

GEORGIA DOMER

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maybe they are trying to protect dc after the um situation. maybe that hit and the back up play has change the game plan
 

BeatSC

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maybe they are trying to protect dc after the um situation. maybe that hit and the back up play has change the game plan

Our offense looks like they are playing scared especially DC. Only when the game was out of reach and DC had nothing to lose did he start to sling it. He seems to lack some confidence and that is why we are getting these 5 yard pass completions. Probably another reason why Floyd isn't too happy. Last year JC always gave him a chance to make a play on the ball. DC needs to feel the prssure (like Luck did) and buy some time with his feet and make some plays. JC was great at sensing the pocket collapsing and taking a step or two in the right direction to buy some time. Even Montana knew how to get an extra second or two.
 

GEORGIA DOMER

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maybe hughes in will give him that extra second to make things happen. the o line needs to take some heat also
 

Jerry

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Crist's runs have looked bad. He's going to have to run like a running QB or I don't think they are going to be over .500.
 

Irish Man3

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BK is not going to free up Dayne Crist to run. We have no reliable back-up at that position. BK and the staff will spend more time fixing our protection problems and our lack of running game before thinking about releasing Dayne. If Dayne goes down the we will not win another game this year. You think that risk is worth running him all over the field on zone read plays?
I agree that I would like to see that become part of the offense and it would certainly help the running game but until we have an established back-up, it wont happen.
 

Kak7304

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Dayne used to be able to run decently well and showed flashes of it last year year at Purdue. Most players who tear an ACL require 12-16 months to regain their full mobility. This year might be a little rough, but I would expect him to be more of a threat next year.
 

TDHeysus

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In order for this offense to really work the defense has got to show respect for all facets and threats of Kelly's spread offense. In order to do that the QB has got to keep the ball on the read option alot more.

Kelly's offense needs for the QB to be a 'run threat'. The QB doesnt need to be a run weapon, but he needs to be able to run the ball when opportunity develops. it makes other parts of the offense work smoothly, its keeps the defense 'honest'. I eluded to this in another thread, but I dont believe that Crist is that type of player. He is a passer, not really looking to run at all(very similar to Clausen). Even with Crist still developing, I dont think its a good match. Jimmy Clausen would not have been a good fit either. Not that Crist isnt going to be good, because I think he will. But even if Crist were to be fully developed into filling his full potential, I dont think he is the type of QB that Kelly needs in his offense.

that being said, I dont believe all hope is lost, but I dont think Kelly's offense won't reach its full potential until there is a 'run threat' taking snaps. At last check, none of those types of QB's are on the roster.
 

IrishinSyria

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The QB doesnt need to be a run weapon, but he needs to be able to run the ball when opportunity develops.

This is a good distinction. Kelly doesn't need a Mike Vick. Brady Quinn is a pretty good example...he was clearly a pass-first QB and wasn't going to go for 80 yards, but he could take 5 or 10 yards when the D gave it to him.
 

Irish Man3

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It was a 5 yard run that Dayne got hurt on last year. Just saying......
The risk is just far to high and BK knows that.
 

PANDFAN

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when will people chill out and remember that DC has only started 4 games in his career....of course he is going to be scared, timid, hesitant etc....hell remember the demise of the season when we opened against GT...and then the rest of the season..and then the next year...JC was running for his life!!! and we gave up the most sacks ever in ND history...DC is doing fine! in terms of where he should be at this point in his career....this issue has been beaten to death!!!!! we can win games w/out him running around....i personally don't want to see another 1st half of michigan...i know he can get hurt at any point, but why run the risk
 

IrishLax

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Doesn't everyone remember Jimmy's first year with a bad OL? Compare that to last year with an average OL.

This year, Dayne has an OL that can't run block and hardly pass blocks... and he is a first time starter. Is he there? No. Will get better? Probably. I wouldn't be shocked if we won 5 in a row heading into Utah.
 

NDOM

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This is so true. I have'nt seen the spread option since the first drive of the Michigan game. After the first drive of the Michigan game it has looked like Charlie Weis's old offense with the horrible play and playcalling.
 

IrishinSyria

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Doesn't everyone remember Jimmy's first year with a bad OL? Compare that to last year with an average OL.

This year, Dayne has an OL that can't run block and hardly pass blocks... and he is a first time starter. Is he there? No. Will get better? Probably. I wouldn't be shocked if we won 5 in a row heading into Utah.

Yea, but this is systematic. The Kelly Spread has one bread and butter run: the option read. Dayne doesn't need to be superman, but if he's not a credible running threat we're never going to have a run game, which in turn will make passing the ball much harder.

That being said, I also think it's very possible for ND to win the next 5.
 

Old Man Mike

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This has to be the hardest question that Kelly asks himself prior to each game. There is no question that spreading out the defense is asking for quarterback scrambling runs almost as design. Here is my foggy opinion. Crist's injury was an ACL. When I was assisting with basketball teams, we had plenty of girls who went down with ACLs. They all beat the 12-month "book" wisdom as to when they'd be ready again. I'll bet that Crist worked just as hard as they did, and his knee is ready---he's probably more likely to injure the other knee than the re-hab one. His injury against Michigan seems freakish to me--a blow to the side of the head [perhaps by definition illegal] which discombobulated his eyesight for a while. That sounds serious, but what are the chances of that happening again? If I'm Kelly, I tell Crist that when I have fourth and one, I'm going [sometimes] to call QB sneak and I want him to get low and behind Braxton Cave and bang in there. When the receivers are covered [because it's drop-8] and Cave and the Brethren are spreading the three-man rush out, I want him to take off with authority and run like we know he can in an athletic situation. OK, no designed runs laterally---that's the compromise. I say this not because I want to risk getting Crist hurt, but because these plays should be low risk, and I think that we need them in the system [especially the determined scrambles] for the offense to get the D off its back. I'm willing to admit that this "brilliant" intuition can be completely wrong, and in all things I ultimately go "all-things-Kelly".
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Kelly's offense needs for the QB to be a 'run threat'. The QB doesnt need to be a run weapon, but he needs to be able to run the ball when opportunity develops. it makes other parts of the offense work smoothly, its keeps the defense 'honest'. I eluded to this in another thread, but I dont believe that Crist is that type of player. He is a passer, not really looking to run at all(very similar to Clausen). Even with Crist still developing, I dont think its a good match. Jimmy Clausen would not have been a good fit either. Not that Crist isnt going to be good, because I think he will. But even if Crist were to be fully developed into filling his full potential, I dont think he is the type of QB that Kelly needs in his offense.

that being said, I dont believe all hope is lost, but I dont think Kelly's offense won't reach its full potential until there is a 'run threat' taking snaps. At last check, none of those types of QB's are on the roster.

Watch Hendrix's game films!
 

eNDzone

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Hendrix looks good on the move both running and throwing. He also has a quick release and a bullit delivery.
I'm assuming he's going to be our next man in next year and that Kelly is giving him a year to mature.
 

jason_h537

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Crist can run but Kelly doesn't want him to, its that simple. I have read that Crist may be allowed to run some more this weekend so keep an eye out for that
 

irishtrain

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This guy cant carry the ball, he's the only QB they have. Somehow they have got to run the ball in a more standard spread offense way. Its an o line issue not a scheme issue. If they run better he will throw for 350/400 yrds per game. The kid is a good passer but he is not a runner. Kelly knows this thats why Hughes is getting a chance. Harbaugh doesnt ask Luck to run the ball-Crist and Luck are the same type of QB.
 

TDHeysus

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Its an o line issue not a scheme issue......Harbaugh doesnt ask Luck to run the ball-Crist and Luck are the same type of QB.

Harbaugh runs a pro style offense, Crist, Luck, Clausen are/were all pro style QB's. Harbaugh doesnt ask Luck to run because its not part of his offense. BK needs a QB (crist) to run when its there because that is what BK's offense needs to fire on all cyclinders. from that point of view, it is a scheme-issue .......or a personel issue, depending how you look at it.

IF the QB cant run the ball in Kelly's offense, all the defense needs to do is rush 3 defenders and drop 8 in coverage all day. A QB should see that they are only rushing 3, at that point the QB knows that a run will have a high chance of success. In essence, Kelly's offense has an 'on-the-fly' Wildcat, where the QB can audible into a spread option and exploit the defense formation 'on-the-fly'. If the QB is not at least a small threat to run, the passing lanes will be clogged full of defenders.

Hate to give it up to this guy, but look at the way Tebow ran the spread option, he ran it to perfection and if you remember Tebags isnt known for his passing skills.

Kelly's offense is designed for a Tebow, Tommie Frazier, Eric Crouch, Demetrius Jones, Tony Rice type QB, rather than a Clausen, Crist, Luck, Montana (joe), Tom Brady type QB. I think Tommie Frazier in BK's system would have been even more lethal than those Nebraska offenses were back in the 90's, and they absolutely dominated.

Where is Jarious Jackson when you need him??
 
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HereComeTheIrish

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Harbaugh runs a pro style offense, Crist, Luck, Clausen are/were all pro style QB's. Harbaugh doesnt ask Luck to run because its not part of his offense. BK needs a QB (crist) to run when its there because that is what BK's offense needs to fire on all cyclinders. from that point of view, it is a scheme-issue .......or a personel issue, depending how you look at it.

IF the QB cant run the ball in Kelly's offense, all the defense needs to do is rush 3 defenders and drop 8 in coverage all day. A QB should see that they are only rushing 3, at that point the QB knows that a run will have a high chance of success. In essence, Kelly's offense has an 'on-the-fly' Wildcat, where the QB can audible into a spread option and exploit the defense formation 'on-the-fly'. If the QB is not at least a small threat to run, the passing lanes will be clogged full of defenders.

Hate to give it up to this guy, but look at the way Tebow ran the spread option, he ran it to perfection and if you remember Tebags isnt known for his passing skills.

Kelly's offense is designed for a Tebow, Tommie Frazier, Eric Crouch, Demetrius Jones, Tony Rice type QB, rather than a Clausen, Crist, Luck, Montana (joe), Tom Brady type QB. I think Tommie Frazier in BK's system would have been even more lethal than those Nebraska offenses were back in the 90's, and they absolutely dominated.

Where is Jarious Jackson when you need him??

I wish you'd stop making so much sense......It's making the rest of us look bad. j/k

Well said and I couldn't agree more. This offense needs the thread of the qb taking off... Either take the restrictions off or get someone else ready to play.
 

no.1IrishFan

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The way I see it is that BK would have never recruited DC had he been here, just not the perfect fit for his system. Although DC has done a hell of a job and is giving it his best. The only part of his game that is lacking is his ability to take off for 20 yards when given the opportunity. Remember, he wasn't recruited to be that type of QB in the first place. He's putting up great numbers and is managing the offense much better than I expected him to.
 

G_Rob_B

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Doesn't everyone remember Jimmy's first year with a bad OL? Compare that to last year with an average OL.

This year, Dayne has an OL that can't run block and hardly pass blocks... and he is a first time starter. Is he there? No. Will get better? Probably. I wouldn't be shocked if we won 5 in a row heading into Utah.

I completely agree. It all starts with the OL and the ability to run the ball. I do not believe Kelly's offense needs a running QB. Look at Tony Pike's stats: 2008, 56 attempts, 47 yards; 2009, 31 attempts, 6 yards.
 

irishtrain

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I completely agree. It all starts with the OL and the ability to run the ball. I do not believe Kelly's offense needs a running QB. Look at Tony Pike's stats: 2008, 56 attempts, 47 yards; 2009, 31 attempts, 6 yards.
This is my point. Well said. I'm not asking or saying Crist needs to be Tony Rice. Kelly's guys at Cinn werent that type of QB. What I am saying is that the o line must find a way to free up the backs so the guy can do what he does best-throw the ball. Of course Kelly may not have recruited the guy but he can run well enough when its open to be effective. This offense does not need a running Qb it needs an o line that blocks enough to give the offense the option of run pass. When someone drops 8 there is no way you shouldnt be able to run the football. Dane Crist should not be held liable for not doing well against 8 man coverage. Johnny Unitas couldnt pull that off. If you cant run you cant win. (Allen fights like %$#@ for 8 yard gains). I disagree that this offense needs a pure option QB, I dont think thats what Kelly does. Its pass first protected by a adequate run game when needed. If they drop 8 and you cant run you dont have an adequate run game.
 

IrishinSyria

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I disagree that this offense needs a pure option QB, I dont think thats what Kelly does.
I don't think anybody said Kelly needs a "pure option" QB. Just that it has to be within the realm of possibility that the QB runs the ball (as Crist did against Michigan and Purdue)

If they drop 8 and you cant run you dont have an adequate run game.

True. But when your go-to running play (the option read) is super-predictable because your QB isn't allowed to run, they could drop 11 and still blow up the run...the back's momentum goes side to side instead of downhill, which is a big disadvantage minus the option.


Now, everybody understands why Kelly doesn't want Crist to run. But we're kind of in a Catch 22: the offense is broken if he can't run, it's broken worse if we lose Crist again. My opinion is that even though he wasn't allowed to run, Crist still took a beating against Stanford just sitting in the pocket. This was partially because Stanford was good, especially their D-line and backers, and partially because our O-line and RBs weren't all that great at blocking. But the lack of a running game, due in part to a lack of Crist running, made Stanford's life real easy: focus on the pass. This meant D-linemen don't have to worry about gaps and linebackers can drop back into coverage quicker...the end result of all of this is that Crist still ended up getting smacked around. Therefore, Kelly has to let Crist run. Maybe just 3 or 4 yards and slide. But he's got to do it.

Prediction: Crist has 3-6 carries against BC.
 

BeatSC

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I still like DC in this offense but when he can take off for 10 yards he needs to. This will affect the DL on pass rushing and throw off the DB's. When Luck sensed the pressure he took off for positive yardage without taking a hit. DC needs to shoft in the pocket. One move on the oncoming rushers would have bought some time. Getting sacked on the play with the 3 man rush late in the game was unacceptable. Most of his throws thast he made were good but not spectacular. He also missed TJ when he had 3 steps for a TD. I like that Kelly was bringing back the wildcat. We were close to breaking a few. UCLA worked Texas over with 8 pass attempts. Let Floyd get back there and take off.
 

nd1

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nice little read


Crist's stats good, but Irish QB needs work
September, 28, 2010 Sep 287:24PM CTEmail Print Comments By Wes Morgan

SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- If you tuned in late to Saturday's game between Notre Dame and Stanford, Irish quarterback Dayne Crist's posture summed up the afternoon.

Even with 304 passing yards, it was an off day for a first-year starter still getting his bearings in coach Brian Kelly's shotgun spread offense. Crist finished 25-of-44 with a touchdown and an interception returned for a score. The film, Kelly said Tuesday, magnified shortcomings not always related to his production.

[+] EnlargeRobin Alam/Icon SMI
Irish quarterback Dayne Crist threw for 304 yards with a touchdown and an interception on Saturday, but he still has a lot to learn. "It certainly was a game that provided so many opportunities for him to grow," Kelly said. "And not just from completions to incompletions, but in leadership, in body language and all the things that quarterbacks need to develop. He saw a lot of things; I think he learned quite a bit. Now, as I told him yesterday in our meetings, it's about retention. It's about making sure that we don't have to go down this road again."

Notre Dame goes to Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts, this weekend for another classic Catholic clash with Boston College, which will air in primetime on ABC. Kickoff is scheduled for 7:12 p.m.

The Eagles defense is holding opponents to just 71.33 rushing yards per game but is vulnerable against the pass, surrendering an average of 238 yards through three games. Crist will try and regain his swagger against a Boston College unit that's produced just four sacks all year but boasts five interceptions.

"He's throwing for over 300 yards a game, his interceptions obviously are not crazy -- they're higher than I want," Kelly said. "It's the combination of making four or five really good plays and maybe one or two not-so-good plays. So I think where we are in the development is obviously playing more consistently. How do you get consistent? You gain confidence. And when he's confident, now, he's really, really good. When he loses a little bit of confidence at times, that's where we're working on the development of Dayne Crist. ... If there's a bad play, forget about it and let's move on to the next."

Other topics Kelly addressed Tuesday:

On Boston College’s running game: "[Montel] Harris, the running back, is a workhorse for them. He carries it, catches it, I think he was the leading receiver -- and rusher, obviously -- for them. Big, physical offensive line as you have always expected with Boston College -- that hasn't changed.”

On Boston College linebackers: "I think on defense is where they've kind of shown themselves to be consistently one of the top units in the country. [Mark] Herzlich obviously at the ‘Sam’ [outside] linebacker is a great story [beating cancer] but he's also a very good football player. Luke Kuechly I think was one of the best, if not the No. 1 tackler in the country last year, he returns at the 'Mike' linebacker position -- outstanding player. Their true freshman is playing really well for them, [Kevin] Pierre-Louis. So it's obviously a defense that prides itself against the rush. They've limited most opponents to well below their average."

On Irish special teams: "I think we had higher expectations. We have not punted the ball very well and we have not been, in using a word that I use, we have not been dynamic other than our punt return earlier in the year. Yeah, we haven't gotten the kind of production that we're looking for. We're still working on it. We expect to be there, we're just not there yet."

On production of D-line reserves: [Hafis Williams] and Sean [Cwynar] have increasingly played more and really have helped us out considerably in terms of lowering some of the reps [for the starters]. We're getting now into a 48- to 50-play max for our D-line, which is outstanding. That's where we'd like to be."

On Robert Hughes listed No. 2 at RB: "You know, we're still really high on Cierre Wood. This is not, ‘let's push Cierre to the side’. He's a young kid now. This guy's got four games, you know, and everybody wants to throw the poor kid under the bus. I think he's going to be a really, really good player. He just needs time. One of the things that Robert can do and utilize against BC is he's a big, strong, physical kid and he may be able to help us a little bit in pass protection.

"I want Cierre to know, 'Hey, there's no pressure on you, son. Go play.' Sometimes he plays like there's all this pressure on him to be the next Heisman Trophy candidate. He just needs to go play and relax and hopefully he'll do that."

On injuries: "[RB] Jonas [Gray] right now is the only guy right now that's questionable [with pulled groin] for Saturday.Share
 

tankjeep

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BK is not going to free up Dayne Crist to run. We have no reliable back-up at that position. BK and the staff will spend more time fixing our protection problems and our lack of running game before thinking about releasing Dayne. If Dayne goes down the we will not win another game this year. You think that risk is worth running him all over the field on zone read plays?
I agree that I would like to see that become part of the offense and it would certainly help the running game but until we have an established back-up, it wont happen.

if you read bk's presser, he clearly says that crist will have to look to run more.
 

Irish.Ca

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Dayne only has to run the ball well once or twice to make the opponent have to respect it. Then the door is open for play action rollout passes for BIG yards and better results.
 
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