For the Weis must go crowd....

PADOMERNUT

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Please dont post Weis must be fired unless you have a viable alternative, and give reasons for it. I know I can speak for some long time posters on this board who go nuts when all people do is complain, yet they offer no solution.

I am not a Weis hater, in fact I have always supported him. I am squarely on the fence now weighing the positives and negatives of letting him go.

I am not trying to tell people what to do or what to think. But I am also tired of seeing people get banned because they cant form a rational argument and thus there posts consist of calling Charlie fat or taking shots at other IE members.

If you want Weis gone, fine, thats your opinion. But tell us why and tell us who would be a better fit and why. I have seen so many people say they want Jon Gruden, but why? Because he is a popular name? What has he done to warrant getting the job?
 

NDMontana

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Please dont post Weis must be fired unless you have a viable alternative, and give reasons for it. I know I can speak for some long time posters on this board who go nuts when all people do is complain, yet they offer no solution.

I am not a Weis hater, in fact I have always supported him. I am squarely on the fence now weighing the positives and negatives of letting him go.

I am not trying to tell people what to do or what to think. But I am also tired of seeing people get banned because they cant form a rational argument and thus there posts consist of calling Charlie fat or taking shots at other IE members.

If you want Weis gone, fine, thats your opinion. But tell us why and tell us who would be a better fit and why. I have seen so many people say they want Jon Gruden, but why? Because he is a popular name? What has he done to warrant getting the job?

This a fine sentiment but it works both ways. All the Weis supporters seem to say is that the program is improving which is a fairly ambiguous and subjective statement. I don't see a whole lot of logic coming from either side of the debate, to be honest.

Seriously, what did that Phils Rule or Phils Rules guy say to be banned? I don't understand it.
 

PADOMERNUT

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Not sure what he said....

But I will give you one reason that I havent seen mentioned supporting Weis. Minus Tenuta, who wont be back next year regardless because his contract is up, I actually like the assistants he has brought in. I think Alford and Verducci were great hires, and I think these guys will continue to get better.
 

Jason Pham

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Seriously, what did that Phils Rule or Phils Rules guy say to be banned? I don't understand it.

PhilsRule started spamming and clogging the boards by starting new threads within minutes of each other, none of which containing much more than a few drive-by statements. He has been given a seven-day ban and is welcome to rejoin the boards afterward.
 

NDMontana

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Not sure what he said....

But I will give you one reason that I havent seen mentioned supporting Weis. Minus Tenuta, who wont be back next year regardless because his contract is up, I actually like the assistants he has brought in. I think Alford and Verducci were great hires, and I think these guys will continue to get better.

The offensive line change was definitely an excellent move.
 

NDMontana

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I think 12 months from now, if he is still around, we will be saying much the same thing about Hart, the new DL coach.

You can definitely see glimmers of hope. The d-line is the one position where the team truly is young. I expect better things from that group in the coming years, too.
 

WabashFalcon

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Here are my reasons for keep Charile Weis.

1. The recruit of Pan-American, highly rated prospects.

2. The development of the aforementioned prospects: Claussen, Floyd, Tate, AA, Ethan Johnson, Kapron Lewis-Moore, Kyle McCarthy, Manti T'eo, Trevor Robinson, Dan Wenger, Eric Olsen, (this next one hurts to say) Duval Kamara, and Ian Williams.

3. His job righting the ship after the terrible Willingham Era. He finally has all of his players and if after next season he doesn't get it done, then I say that it is time for a change.

4. His pro approach. Bringing in kids that are NFL Draft ready by their Senior years has done nothing but improve the stock of ND being an NFL factory again.

5. We have the first legit pair of Heisman candidates for ages. As much as I loved BQ, he was a paper tiger to me. Lot of show... little flash. Tate and Jimmah have the goods and are showing them week in and week out.

6. Charlie has said that he is the guy for the O. Tenuta and Corwin were given co-head positions so they could compartimilize the D so Charlie could focus on the O. Was it a bad hire? Not necessarly. Tenuta needs faster, more agressive linebackers and two gap DTs in order for his blitzing package to work. We have T'eo... and are on our way to developing the rest of the personell.

7. Charlie has done so much for the campus. He is beloved by the student body and by the administrators. He has brought in a ton of money for Our Lady while spreading knowledge of the disease that has effected his daughter to the rest of the country.

8. He is affable in both win and defeat. He said that he sticks to his guns. That's the coach I want. I don't want someone that is going to come in week in and week out and attempt to change O/D philosophy.

9. We're almost back to a national power. But cutting the cord now, it's back to the black abyss of the Davie and Willingham eras. If we take a flyer on Gruden (who refuses to develop talent) or Kelly (big fish in a terrible conference), it will be another five year quagmire until the boo-birds begin calling for their heads.

10. This job isn't easy. With the prospect of "Win 10 games or you're gone" year after year, CW has about got the job done.

11. We won a Bowl Game. Don't give a fuck if it was the Hawaii Bowl. It was done.

12. We beat BC.

13. Next year, we will be loaded. If CW stays, Jimmy and Golden stay. T'eo will stay. (You love this kid? You get rid of Charlie, T'eo's gone.) CMart comes in and starts. We are bigger and faster.

14. The (to borrow something from Bambi) young pups will finally become Big Dogs. We are trotting out a D week in and out full of underclassmen that just aren't ready to go yet. Go look at an SEC D and tell me how many underclassmen are starting on Alabama's D? On Florida's? Age and experience baby, age and experience.

15. He's an ND grad. He understands the tradition. He understands the pressure. Hell, I'd know I'd crack if boosters wanted to rip my balls off weekly, U$C fans send me shit mocking my daughter, and alums are posting signs up asking for my job.

16. He's got this team knowning they can win, week in and out. They give a shit... finally. You can see the pain and emotion on T'eo, Golden, and Jimmy's face after the wins and after the losses. They give a damn. There is passion and emotion.

17. He's got the ND football alum's comming back to the program, getting them involved with his kids.

18. He's got the NFL connections that can better this team. After Crist blew his knee out, Charlie had Tom Brady call the kid to tell him what he needs to do to get back on the field.

19. Who could possibly be better? Gruden... no. Cower? Waiting on an NFL job. Kelly... no. See above. Meyer? Never leaving Florida. Give me a name.
 

devolg

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Thread is drifting off topic.....

Anyways I don't mind people calling for Charlies head. Everyone is entitled to their opinion & it's just something that goes with the territory. Calling him fat, stupid, lazy whatever doesn't bother me either as Irish fans tend be very passionate.

What bothers me is 15 threads on the same subject. Use the search function, it's what it's there for. Whats worse & take last night for example, is when 4 or 5 of these pop up on the same day. I scratch my head in bewilderment not understanding how the poster missed the other 5 threads on the subject when they're all right there together when you click "New Posts" It's not rocket science.
 

Irish4Life09

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Please dont post Weis must be fired unless you have a viable alternative, and give reasons for it. I know I can speak for some long time posters on this board who go nuts when all people do is complain, yet they offer no solution.

I am not a Weis hater, in fact I have always supported him. I am squarely on the fence now weighing the positives and negatives of letting him go.

I am not trying to tell people what to do or what to think. But I am also tired of seeing people get banned because they cant form a rational argument and thus there posts consist of calling Charlie fat or taking shots at other IE members.

If you want Weis gone, fine, thats your opinion. But tell us why and tell us who would be a better fit and why. I have seen so many people say they want Jon Gruden, but why? Because he is a popular name? What has he done to warrant getting the job?


I'm not necessarily saying Gruden should be our coach. But there are two big reasons I could think of hiring him.

1.He won a Super Bowl as a Head Coach.
2.He's a young, energetic guy who could bring excitement to our program, much like what Lane Kiffin has done for UT. I live here in Knoxville,and he's honestly starting to get me to like UT. He has completely changed the complexity and excitement level for this entire city.

Like I said, maybe we could go after him. Maybe Brian Kelly who has built up two programs he's been to.
Don't yell at me, maybe Meyer? Yes, we basically passed over him before, but if you want excitement,experience, and ability, right now there's no other name than his.

I'm just sick of defending Weis. I have done everything I can to support him, but you honestly cannot lose to Navy twice in 3 years.You cant.He has done absolutely nothing over a 5 year period to build up our defense. And you know the old addage, defense wins championships.I want change,and if that means we have to go through another rebuilding period because we can get a quality coach, I'm all for it.
 

bert2834

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Another couple of reasons to keep Weis.

I think Charlie is finally realizing the kind of players it take to win in college. Look at Riddick compared to Hughes and Aldridge. Hughes and Aldridge were highly touted RBs while Riddick was a 3 star but had good moves. Charlie wouldn't have even looked at Riddick his 1st 2 or 3 years.

Charlie is also finally realizing how to become a Head Coach, it has taken him longer than I would have liked. He has said a few things to the defense which helped for the Purdue game(way fewer blitzes since then).

Get rid of Weis, we not only lose Jimmy, Golden, AA, and T'eo, but also a lot of recruits. CMart is on the fence as it is, why would he stay with a program in turmoil. All this Weis needs to be fire stuff is losing us recruits as we speak.

KEEP WEIS!!!
GO IRISH!!!
NC IN 2010!!!
 

SteelerNation

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Gruden made the Raiders competitive. So much that they made the Super Bowl. Bill Callahan just rode Grudens coattails. And he did it with Rich freaking Gannon. Imagine what the man could do with someone like Clausen. When he took Tampa to a super bowl victory, he did it with Brad Johnson. To say Gruden wouldnt be a good coach for Notre Dame is wrong. Have you seen the Bucs and Raiders lately? The man would bring nasty back to Notre Dame and thats what we need.
 

MeanGreen

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Today, I am really on the fence. I agree with most of the positive, but I am starting to fall towards the "he has to go side". We lack emotion. Ara and Lou's team never lacked emotion. Hell Devine's team even had emotion. We have none and big part of college football is letting the kids be kids and try to channel their emotions into energy on the field. Yesterday hurt real bad because we could have, should have won that game, even if it was by 3 points we should have won that game. Everyone on the football staff and team is responsible for that lose.
 

phgreek

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Please dont post Weis must be fired unless you have a viable alternative, and give reasons for it. I know I can speak for some long time posters on this board who go nuts when all people do is complain, yet they offer no solution.

I am not a Weis hater, in fact I have always supported him. I am squarely on the fence now weighing the positives and negatives of letting him go.

I am not trying to tell people what to do or what to think. But I am also tired of seeing people get banned because they cant form a rational argument and thus there posts consist of calling Charlie fat or taking shots at other IE members.

If you want Weis gone, fine, thats your opinion. But tell us why and tell us who would be a better fit and why. I have seen so many people say they want Jon Gruden, but why? Because he is a popular name? What has he done to warrant getting the job?


Agree...mostly. I think some guys spout off a little here...me being one of them...when the frustration of watching glimmers of hope, and then devastating performances. I always hung inconsistancies on coaching....my look at Charlie is simple...he ain't Lou, so it is going to take him much longer to go through the process of embedding the "how to win", and "knowing you will win" , and then "execution"...its just going to take Charlie longer to make it the culture...if he survives.
 

BeatSC

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Today, I am really on the fence. I agree with most of the positive, but I am starting to fall towards the "he has to go side". We lack emotion. Ara and Lou's team never lacked emotion. Hell Devine's team even had emotion. We have none and big part of college football is letting the kids be kids and try to channel their emotions into energy on the field. Yesterday hurt real bad because we could have, should have won that game, even if it was by 3 points we should have won that game. Everyone on the football staff and team is responsible for that lose.

I agree with this whole heartedly and while I think this team has never given up they don't have the killer instinct which has been missing from CW teams. I just don't know how many weeks I can say woulda, coulda shoulda. I like all the kids on this team but not using Riddick alot more and the red zone play calling (all year) and a lack of defensive fundamentals (tackling) will be his downfall. Let's face it I think he can recover from this if he strings together wins to finish the season. Anything short of that and he is probably in trouble. We haven't lost 2 in a row this season yet. If we lose next week that hot seat will turn into a bonfire. I just want to keep on winning and then he can stay.
 

WabashFalcon

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And for the people that say I don't use any logic... I see none of them posting here. Again. *Coff MONTANA Coff*
 

NDMontana

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And for the people that say I don't use any logic... I see none of them posting here. Again. *Coff MONTANA Coff*

I'm right here pal. Congratulations, you showed your logic. But it was poor logic, subjective and lacking quantifiable foundations to back it up.

What I gleened from your post was a whole bunch of shit about the NFL. I'm not interested in ND becoming an NFL factory. I'm interested in ND winning games.
 

WabashFalcon

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I'm right here pal. Congratulations, you showed your logic. But it was poor logic, subjective and lacking quantifiable foundations to back it up.

What I gleened from your post was a whole bunch of shit about the NFL. I'm not interested in ND becoming an NFL factory. I'm interested in ND winning games.

I'll give you quantifible data. When Charlie went 3-7, how many players got drafted?

How many players were drafted off of last year's squad?

How many future NFL players do we have on this year's team?

Now look at Florida. Without NFL caliber talent, you can't win football games. The shit thing is, Montana, you do little to back up your own posts. I hate to see this become a mudslinging match, but until you practice what you preach, I say no cowboys should throw poop in glass barns, or something of that nature.

And for another bit of hard data... 3 of my 19 posts had anything to do with the NFL. Someone must have had a little trouble with math when he was younger, huh?
 

alleycat9

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so you are saying that if a guy sucks you cant get rid of him unless you have someone else who will be great? so you should just sit there sucking for years until something comes up?

now you cant interview or contact anyone under contract unless you have an open position so how exactly are you supposed to even see if those are the guys? dont you need to bring people in and see what their plan is, how they expect to turn things around?

you cant do those things while you still have a coach, sure you can have ideas or plans but to decide who is going to be the coach while you still have a coach is a little tough.
 

enrico514

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Today, I am really on the fence. I agree with most of the positive, but I am starting to fall towards the "he has to go side". We lack emotion. Ara and Lou's team never lacked emotion. Hell Devine's team even had emotion. We have none and big part of college football is letting the kids be kids and try to channel their emotions into energy on the field. Yesterday hurt real bad because we could have, should have won that game, even if it was by 3 points we should have won that game. Everyone on the football staff and team is responsible for that lose.

Many great coaches have lost games they should have won. At least 2 of ND's greatest leaders lost games at the end of a season for which they were the favorite that cost them the NC. Now THAT really hurts. Loosing to Navy always hurts but they played a perfect game and had lady luck on their side more than once.
 

TDHeysus

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Did CW get his bell rung and fumble the ball inside the 1 yard line?
Did CW have the ball bounce off his back inside the 5 yard line?
Did CW miss 2 field goals?
Did CW fumble the ball on the first drive of the game?

I suppose that CW should have been there to soften Rudy's fall too, right?? after all, he did call the play, so I guess he is responsible for him getting hurt.

yea...its all CW's fault
 
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NDMontana

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I'll give you quantifible data. When Charlie went 3-7, how many players got drafted?

How many players were drafted off of last year's squad?

How many future NFL players do we have on this year's team?

Now look at Florida. Without NFL caliber talent, you can't win football games. The shit thing is, Montana, you do little to back up your own posts. I hate to see this become a mudslinging match, but until you practice what you preach, I say no cowboys should throw poop in glass barns, or something of that nature.

And for another bit of hard data... 3 of my 19 posts had anything to do with the NFL. Someone must have had a little trouble with math when he was younger, huh?

I talk about Weis' coaching record, where the defense ranks, I posted Willingham vs. Weis record. All quantifiable, all tangible measures. I don't see the same from you. I'm not talking about 19 posts; I'm talking the about post you used to clarify and--in your mind--soldify your position.

I agree that NFL talent is important but, in the last three years, how many teams have beaten Notre Dame that will place less than 2% of their players in the NFL? College and the NFL are different games, how many Heisman Trophy winners never materialize at the next level?
 
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enrico514

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I talk about Weis' coaching record, were the defense ranks, I posted Willingham vs. Weis record. All quantifiable, all tangible measures. I don't see that from you.

Unfortunately Weis' coaching record is tainted by Willingham's love of the golf course and lack of recruiting effort. Quantifiable tangible measures (as you state) mean nothing taken at face value.
 

WabashFalcon

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Did CW get his bell rung and fumble the ball inside the 1 yard line?
Did CW have the ball bounce off his back inside the 5 yard line?
Did CW miss 2 field goals?
Did CW fumble the ball on the first drive of the game?

I suppose that CW should have been there to soften Rudy's fall too, right?? after all, he did call the play, so I guess he is responsible for him getting hurt.

yea...its all CW's fault

Yup. I'm with you brother.
 

NDMontana

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Did CW get his bell rung and fumble the ball inside the 1 yard line?
Did CW have the ball bounce off his back inside the 5 yard line?
Did CW miss 2 field goals?
Did CW fumble the ball on the first drive of the game?

I suppose that CW should have been there to soften Rudy's fall too, right?? after all, he did call the play, so I guess he is responsible for him getting hurt.

yea...its all CW's fault

And conversely, he had 23 plays in the red zone that didn't result in a score. A turnover on downs, three other plays before a missed field goal. Passing plays when your o-line outweighs their d-line by about 50 lbs. per man. The o-line could've fallen forward and the backs could've gained three yards.

Yeah, it's not all Weis fault but some of it is. What do you chalk it up to, dumb luck? If it's the players' fault than I guess his recruiting hasn't been that great after all? This team is 16-19 in the last three years. It's somebodies fault. Do you still blame Willingham?
 

I Dont Miss Charlie

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True, but the real problem is that we almost NEVER win games we are expected to lose.

Have we ever won a game we were expected to lose in the last 3 years?

Did people expect Michigan to beat us last season? Thats the only highlight victory of the last 3 years for this program.
 

NDMontana

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Unfortunately Weis' coaching record is tainted by Willingham's love of the golf course and lack of recruiting effort. Quantifiable tangible measures (as you state) mean nothing taken at face value.

So true, except, wait a minute, his two best seasons at Notre Dame have been with Willingham's recruits. Hmmm....that's weird.
 

I Dont Miss Charlie

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Did CW get his bell rung and fumble the ball inside the 1 yard line?
Did CW have the ball bounce off his back inside the 5 yard line?
Did CW miss 2 field goals?
Did CW fumble the ball on the first drive of the game?

I suppose that CW should have been there to soften Rudy's fall too, right?? after all, he did call the play, so I guess he is responsible for him getting hurt.

yea...its all CW's fault

How long can you continue to blame the players for our failure?

How about you lend some focus on the guy recruiting them to the program, hiring their position coaches, overseeing their development as players, and calling the plays on offense.
 

enrico514

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So true, except, wait a minute, his two best seasons at Notre Dame have been with Willingham's recruits. Hmmm....that's weird.

Actually that's not weird but rather shows that given decent talent the man can accomplish something.
 
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