Everything Soccer

[Jiggafini19Deux]

USMNT great Steve Cherundolo hired to coach U.S. men’s Olympic soccer team

The former USMNT right back and LAFC coach will take charge of the host nation's men's Olympic soccer team

www.nytimes.com

 

[Lord Jim]

I was one of them. The Spanish language announcers just seem more excited to be there. Even if you don't understand everything they say, it just seems more compelling.

 

[NorthDakota]

I was one of them. The Spanish language announcers just seem more excited to be there. Even if you don't understand everything they say, it just seems more compelling.

I'd be curious how many of the viewers were multilingual or were accommodating Spanish speakers.

They do sound much more excited and so much can be conveyed via tone anyway.

Our local fox affiliate put picture in picture to have some bozo meteorologist reading texts off his phone and laptop about a tornado warning 3 hours away. I was beyond annoyed. They already had the warning ribbon running on the bottom of the screen. Could've popped in at halftime to deliver a warning....but no, let's put the US world cup game in a corner of the screen while I read a weather report.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I was one of them. The Spanish language announcers just seem more excited to be there. Even if you don't understand everything they say, it just seems more compelling.

I watched a few games on Telemundo myself, but not USMNT games. I wasn't alone. Knew a handful of people who did the same.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

FIFA gives Jarell Quansah two-game ban for red card, would miss England’s World Cup semi-final

England face Norway in a World Cup quarter-final on Saturday.

www.nytimes.com

Quansah is serving his suspension and Balogun's.

The King should make a phone call.

 

[Irish Joe]

Fox seems to lean too heavily on the idea that because of the Premier League success & growth in the US the last 10 or so years, American audiences want British accents calling their soccer. The Brits' style tends to be less exciting and more matter of fact.

In fairness to Fox, once upon a time they tried exciting with Gus Johnson doing the footy and people hated it.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Fox seems to lean too heavily on the idea that because of the Premier League success & growth in the US the last 10 or so years, American audiences want British accents calling their soccer. The Brits' style tends to be less exciting and more matter of fact.

In fairness to Fox, once upon a time they tried exciting with Gus Johnson doing the footy and people hated it.

The guys with British accents know the game. Fair point though in terms of their style.

Ian Darke – Landon Donovan and John Strong – Stu Holden have worked for me. I really like Stu Holden.

 

[Sea Turtle]

This is a great point, and it's also why guys who are similar athletic profile to Messi are going to be the best path to how USA finds a "star." That's why Cavan Sullivan (5'7") is the best player in the USA youth pipeline while guys with a profile similar to Mbappe aren't even playing soccer in the USA. I was shocked to learn that Mbappe is actually slow AF relative to hundreds of guys in CFB ... his top speed translates to like a 11.0 or 10.9 100 meter. He's like a tiny bit faster than Drue Tranquill was in high school, for a Notre Dame linebacker comp, yet he has "world class" athleticism for soccer.

There is some truth that #1 thing killing USA finding "generational" players is that all of the 5'9" to 6' tall "good" athletes are routed to football. College football has many full scholarships + NLI money + potential NFL money *and* it is the cultural #1 *and* it doesn't require near the investment in skill that soccer does. It's a funnel. It's not about the "LeBron" type guys, it's about how you have dudes playing corner for Purdue or Boise State that have better athleticism to Mbappe and we have no idea what they could be at soccer. All of these guys in Europe go into academies at an early age, and then they find the 1% that actually have world class soccer skill to be on their national team. PLUS they add the Messi / Iniesta / Cavan Sullivan types. USA is missing the funnel.

So really, we're talking chicken and egg. You're taking about 500+ or a 1000+ kids a year that have Mbappe level athleticism and 0% of them are focusing on soccer. The odds are 1% of that 1000+ might have a lot of soccer potential and we'll never find out.

And by the way, see this across basically all sports. I had a really good lacrosse player drop the sport for football ... he'd never played football in his life ... and get a D1 full ride after two seasons of doing the sport. Football requires ZERO skill and if you have the right athletic profile there are SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES relative to every sport in America. The reason basketball still continues to be successful is that the "elite" pyramid is smaller and those body types don't actually overlap much at all with football. Baseball, soccer, etc. all lose most of their potential top tier athletes to football starting in HS.

What other type of academies would young kids go into in Europe?

What other sports is soccer competing with in Europe for kids? I'll even add South America.

To me, it's not just about our best athletes not playing soccer. It's the competition from other sports in our country and our passion for them.

All Europe cares about is soccer and F1. And F1 isn't taking soccer prospects. I don't say that as an insult to them. It's just a different continent.

Europe and frankly, the rest of the world are nuts about soccer the way Canada is about hockey. I dont know how that is fixable. The dude playing corner at Purdue wouldn't even have that oppurtunity in Europe.

 

[IrishLax]

What other type of academies would young kids go into in Europe?

What other sports is soccer competing with in Europe for kids? I'll even add South America.

To me, it's not just about our best athletes not playing soccer. It's the competition from other sports in our country and our passion for them.

All Europe cares about is soccer and F1. And F1 isn't taking soccer prospects. I don't say that as an insult to them. It's just a different continent.

Europe and frankly, the rest of the world are nuts about soccer the way Canada is about hockey. I dont know how that is fixable. The dude playing corner at Purdue wouldn't even have that oppurtunity in Europe.

Right, that's exactly my point. There really isn't any fixing this, we can't just handwave at how anyone with the athletic profile to play football is going to be funneled into football.

The only thing I can really think of is investing in identifying high aptitude 8-12 year olds that otherwise won't code towards football. And there is a ton of research that "prodigies" most often do not translate into adult phenoms... with some very notable exceptions like Tiger Woods, the Williams sisters, etc.

 

[DomeFieldAdvantage]

This is a great point, and it's also why guys who are similar athletic profile to Messi are going to be the best path to how USA finds a "star." That's why Cavan Sullivan (5'7") is the best player in the USA youth pipeline while guys with a profile similar to Mbappe aren't even playing soccer in the USA. I was shocked to learn that Mbappe is actually slow AF relative to hundreds of guys in CFB ... his top speed translates to like a 11.0 or 10.9 100 meter. He's like a tiny bit faster than Drue Tranquill was in high school, for a Notre Dame linebacker comp, yet he has "world class" athleticism for soccer.

There is some truth that #1 thing killing USA finding "generational" players is that all of the 5'9" to 6' tall "good" athletes are routed to football. College football has many full scholarships + NLI money + potential NFL money *and* it is the cultural #1 *and* it doesn't require near the investment in skill that soccer does. It's a funnel. It's not about the "LeBron" type guys, it's about how you have dudes playing corner for Purdue or Boise State that have better athleticism to Mbappe and we have no idea what they could be at soccer. All of these guys in Europe go into academies at an early age, and then they find the 1% that actually have world class soccer skill to be on their national team. PLUS they add the Messi / Iniesta / Cavan Sullivan types. USA is missing the funnel.

So really, we're talking chicken and egg. You're taking about 500+ or a 1000+ kids a year that have Mbappe level athleticism and 0% of them are focusing on soccer. The odds are 1% of that 1000+ might have a lot of soccer potential and we'll never find out.

And by the way, see this across basically all sports. I had a really good lacrosse player drop the sport for football ... he'd never played football in his life ... and get a D1 full ride after two seasons of doing the sport. Football requires ZERO skill and if you have the right athletic profile there are SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES relative to every sport in America. The reason basketball still continues to be successful is that the "elite" pyramid is smaller and those body types don't actually overlap much at all with football. Baseball, soccer, etc. all lose most of their potential top tier athletes to football starting in HS.

I'm going to need some citations for Mbappe's speed being slow. From what I have found, his top sprint speed is higher than most weeks' top NFL ball carrier sprint speed. This has his at 38kph/23.6mph in one run. Tyreek Hill's famous kickoff return was 23.24mph. Most weeks top sprint is under 22mph.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

I'm going to need some citations for Mbappe's speed being slow. From what I have found, his top sprint speed is higher than most weeks' top NFL ball carrier sprint speed. This has his at 38kph/23.6mph in one run. Tyreek Hill's famous kickoff return was 23.24mph. Most weeks top sprint is under 22mph.

Mbappé's Speed

• Top recorded speed: ~38 km/h (23.6 mph) in a 2019 Ligue 1 match (dribbling the ball). Other clocks put him in the 36-38 km/h range regularly.
  
  si.com
• This is among the highest ever tracked in top-level soccer. He's explosive over short distances and maintains high speed while controlling the ball.

NFL Players' Speed

• In-game top speeds (Next Gen Stats tracking, ball in hand or returning, in pads/gear):
  • Tyreek Hill has hit 23.24 mph (one of the all-time NFL highs).
  • Raheem Mostert ~23.09 mph.
  • Others like DK Metcalf, Xavier Worthy, Parris Campbell, etc., regularly hit 22+ mph. Many skill players (WRs, RBs, CBs) crack 21-22 mph.
    
    ncaa.com
• 40-yard dash (NFL Combine, no pads, straight-line max effort): Top times like Xavier Worthy's 4.21 seconds convert to an average ~19.4 mph over the distance—but peak instantaneous speed in those sprints is higher (closer to 22-25 mph range for the elites). Many top WR/CB/RB prospects run sub-4.4 (plenty in the 4.2-4.3 range).
  
  foxsports.com

Direct comparisons show Mbappé's peak is very competitive with (or slightly above) the fastest NFL in-game speeds for skill-position players. Some older analyses even noted Mbappé's 38 km/h outpacing NFL ball-carrier highs at the time (with NFL players wearing 11-19 lbs of pads).

statsports.com
Key Caveats (Why It's Not Apples-to-Apples)

• Sport differences: Soccer involves sustained running + ball control over 90+ minutes. NFL is short, violent bursts (average play ~5-7 seconds), with tons of acceleration/deceleration, cutting, and contact. NFLers train for explosive power in pads; soccer players emphasize agility + endurance.
• Gear & conditions: NFL speed is often in full pads/helmets on turf/grass with hits. Mbappé's speeds are in lightweight boots, no pads, open field.
• Who we're comparing: Elite NFL skill players (Tyreek Hill, DK Metcalf, etc.) match or edge Mbappé's top-end in bursts. Average NFL players (linemen, etc.) are slower in pure speed but far stronger. Average Premier League max sprints are lower (~30-33 km/h).
  
  pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
• Track athletes would smoke both (Usain Bolt territory is 27+ mph peaks), but that's not relevant here.

Bottom line: Mbappé is not slow—he's one of the fastest team-sport athletes on the planet and would absolutely cook most NFL defenders in a footrace (especially with the ball at his feet). The very fastest NFL guys (Hill, etc.) are in the same zip code or a hair quicker in pure bursts.



Mbappé's estimated 40-yard dash time would likely be in the low-to-mid 4.3s to around 4.5 seconds range (probably 4.35-4.45 if he trained specifically for it). That's elite NFL Combine territory for a skill player, but not quite record-breaking.

 

[pumpdog20]

Mbappé's Speed

• Top recorded speed: ~38 km/h (23.6 mph) in a 2019 Ligue 1 match (dribbling the ball). Other clocks put him in the 36-38 km/h range regularly.
  
  si.com
• This is among the highest ever tracked in top-level soccer. He's explosive over short distances and maintains high speed while controlling the ball.

NFL Players' Speed

• In-game top speeds (Next Gen Stats tracking, ball in hand or returning, in pads/gear):
  • Tyreek Hill has hit 23.24 mph (one of the all-time NFL highs).
  • Raheem Mostert ~23.09 mph.
  • Others like DK Metcalf, Xavier Worthy, Parris Campbell, etc., regularly hit 22+ mph. Many skill players (WRs, RBs, CBs) crack 21-22 mph.
    
    ncaa.com
• 40-yard dash (NFL Combine, no pads, straight-line max effort): Top times like Xavier Worthy's 4.21 seconds convert to an average ~19.4 mph over the distance—but peak instantaneous speed in those sprints is higher (closer to 22-25 mph range for the elites). Many top WR/CB/RB prospects run sub-4.4 (plenty in the 4.2-4.3 range).
  
  foxsports.com

Direct comparisons show Mbappé's peak is very competitive with (or slightly above) the fastest NFL in-game speeds for skill-position players. Some older analyses even noted Mbappé's 38 km/h outpacing NFL ball-carrier highs at the time (with NFL players wearing 11-19 lbs of pads).

statsports.com
Key Caveats (Why It's Not Apples-to-Apples)

• Sport differences: Soccer involves sustained running + ball control over 90+ minutes. NFL is short, violent bursts (average play ~5-7 seconds), with tons of acceleration/deceleration, cutting, and contact. NFLers train for explosive power in pads; soccer players emphasize agility + endurance.
• Gear & conditions: NFL speed is often in full pads/helmets on turf/grass with hits. Mbappé's speeds are in lightweight boots, no pads, open field.
• Who we're comparing: Elite NFL skill players (Tyreek Hill, DK Metcalf, etc.) match or edge Mbappé's top-end in bursts. Average NFL players (linemen, etc.) are slower in pure speed but far stronger. Average Premier League max sprints are lower (~30-33 km/h).
  
  pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
• Track athletes would smoke both (Usain Bolt territory is 27+ mph peaks), but that's not relevant here.

Bottom line: Mbappé is not slow—he's one of the fastest team-sport athletes on the planet and would absolutely cook most NFL defenders in a footrace (especially with the ball at his feet). The very fastest NFL guys (Hill, etc.) are in the same zip code or a hair quicker in pure bursts.



Mbappé's estimated 40-yard dash time would likely be in the low-to-mid 4.3s to around 4.5 seconds range (probably 4.35-4.45 if he trained specifically for it). That's elite NFL Combine territory for a skill player, but not quite record-breaking.

I'm not adding anything to or against Mbappe's speed. He's obviously fast.
I'm just randomly pointing out how impressive it is that the NFL guys you are comparing him too are doing it at 30-50lbs heavier.

 

[Dale]

Someone like Haaland is the exception, but I still think the freak physical attribute thing is overblown. I think you’re really asking for a pool of professional caliber athletes to take their focus, work ethic etc and apply it to soccer more than you are needing fast guy run fast in soccer.

That makes the debate still an interesting circle, because could you just cultivate the current large population of soccer athletes with those mental skills/dedication better and get the same end result.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

If kids actually like soccer they way they love football, we wouldn't need all the clubs and academies. We'd develop studs like we do in football through the school teams and camps. Football is the only sport that seems to still function this way.

 

[stlnd01]

There was a really good long piece in The Athletic a few weeks back about why the US has never developed a soccer superstar, and why about 80 percent of the best players in the world come from 10 countries.

They talk with lots of coaches and such who say it largely comes down to culture, and then development. And it begins with the fact that loads of kids in those countries are basically born with a soccer ball at their feet, and develop innate ball skills before they ever meet a coach or join an organized team.

Yes there are kids like that in the US, but not nearly as many. It’s also quite different than how you develop a football player.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7342178/2026/06/09/us-soccer-world-class-global-star-usmnt/

 

[jerseyborn1971]

You want an example of how different it is for the rest of the world? England's second most popular team sport is...

basketball.

 

[thekid33]

Vive le France 🇫🇷

 

[zelezo vlk]

You want an example of how different it is for the rest of the world? England's second most popular team sport is...

basketball.

Over cricket??

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

Over cricket??

I am 99% sure cricket and rugby are bigger than basketball

 

[thekid33]

That was an awful penalty take

 

[jerseyborn1971]

I saw it somewhere, but it's clearly wrong.

 

[jerseyborn1971]

Maybe it was Australia.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

People have been having this "soccer athlete" debate in the US since 1994. Its apples to oranges. There are layers of nuances to becoming an elite soccer player. Its a much different path than traditional American sports, though maybe baseball has some similarities. Football is probably the antithesis and a terrible comparison. Somehow projecting Tyreek Hill, if he just grew up with a soccer ball, into an elite soccer player because he runs fast and he's kind of small for a football player? I'm not saying any of you think that, but its a tired and lazy argument.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

People have been having this "soccer athlete" debate in the US since 1994. Its apples to oranges. There are layers of nuances to becoming an elite soccer player. Its a much different path than traditional American sports, though maybe baseball has some similarities. Football is probably the antithesis and a terrible comparison. Somehow projecting Tyreek Hill, if he just grew up with a soccer ball, into an elite soccer player because he runs fast and he's kind of small for a football player? I'm not saying any of you think that, but its a tired and lazy argument.

That is a Colin Cowherd argument...

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

France is too good. I don't see anyone beating them.

 

[Dale]

People have been having this "soccer athlete" debate in the US since 1994. Its apples to oranges. There are layers of nuances to becoming an elite soccer player. Its a much different path than traditional American sports, though maybe baseball has some similarities. Football is probably the antithesis and a terrible comparison. Somehow projecting Tyreek Hill, if he just grew up with a soccer ball, into an elite soccer player because he runs fast and he's kind of small for a football player? I'm not saying any of you think that, but its a tired and lazy argument.

Get Isiah Pacheco in some soccer boots ASAP

 

[IrishLax]

To be clear, they literally said on broadcast last week that he ran a 11 second 100m, and then I was like "wow that seems slow" so I Googled it and there was a BBC article saying he's estimated at a 10.9.

It seems like there is some weird voodoo going on with "max velocity" but idk, I haven't looked into it that closely.

 

[zelezo vlk]

To be clear, they literally said on broadcast last week that he ran a 11 second 100m, and then I was like "wow that seems slow" so I Googled it and there was a BBC article saying he's estimated at a 10.9.

It seems like there is some weird voodoo going on with "max velocity" but idk, I haven't looked into it that closely.

Maybe they did their measurements like the Nike SPARQ events

 

[Bane]

Fox seems to lean too heavily on the idea that because of the Premier League success & growth in the US the last 10 or so years, American audiences want British accents calling their soccer. The Brits' style tends to be less exciting and more matter of fact.

In fairness to Fox, once upon a time they tried exciting with Gus Johnson doing the footy and people hated it.

Yes, but the Brits tend to roast players in a way I find refreshing considering most American announcers spend the entire game they're calling gurgling the balls of the biggest star on the field.

 

[Bane]

People have been having this "soccer athlete" debate in the US since 1994. Its apples to oranges. There are layers of nuances to becoming an elite soccer player. Its a much different path than traditional American sports, though maybe baseball has some similarities. Football is probably the antithesis and a terrible comparison. Somehow projecting Tyreek Hill, if he just grew up with a soccer ball, into an elite soccer player because he runs fast and he's kind of small for a football player? I'm not saying any of you think that, but its a tired and lazy argument.

But at the same time the counter arguments to America leaning into it's physicality and freak athletes culture tend to get all ethereal and esoteric and talk about "culture." Then when you ask how build this mythical "Culture" you basically get told you can't because American animal spirits are in some way different and less magical than European or Brazilian animal spirits.

To me, there's more than one way to skin a cat and America might have to lean into what we're already good at, not (totally) at the expense of the technical aspects of the game, but moreso of a matter of emphasis. Why can't we build a coherent team identity around speed, aggressiveness, athleticism? One thing that struck me watching the team collapse against Belgium was that we had no real team identity, didn't have any idea what we were trying to do, and when things got rough, we had no way to steady the course by falling back on the team's DNA.