UND News (General)

[GrangerIrish24]

We have fallen in the US News rankings again. The stakes for a win on Saturday have never been higher

Fire Chris Ass!

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

The recent change is methodology heavily benefits public schools, not an apples to apples admissions and outcomes ranking. Like no one thinks Wisconsin is the #36 school in the country.

This is true, but it’s also true that every school ranked 1-14 is private. The administration needs to start taking this seriously

 

[NDPhilly]

This is true, but it’s also true that every school ranked 1-14 is private. The administration needs to start taking this seriously

My University (Fordham) has dropped from ~60 every year to 96 this year since the change in methodology, despite our average SAT score of 1400 and ACT of 32 for enrolled students being tied or above UF, Wisky, U Illinois, UT Austin who are all top 40. Our outcomes certainly didnt get worse lol.

Its created a real threat to the school, as they have us tied with fucking FIU and Rutgers Camden campus. Parents / Prospective students look at this, even if the methodology sucks. Impossible to make the argument that your kid should spend $80k a year for a school tied with those state schools with no admissions standards.

 

[SportsingHard]

The recent change is methodology heavily benefits public schools, not an apples to apples admissions and outcomes ranking. Like no one thinks Wisconsin is the #36 school in the country.

I thought Wisconsin was a bit better than the #36 American university. Not that I'm in the business of studying and ranking schools. I just imagined them somewhere in the 20s by reputation.

 

[PolishDomer]

I thought Wisconsin was a bit better than the #36 American university. Not that I'm in the business of studying and ranking schools. I just imagined them somewhere in the 20s by reputation.

Top 20 for this...

 

[SportsingHard]

Top 20 for this...

Well, sure. Alcoholism is required by law in Wisconsin.

 

[FireJeffQuinn]

ND’s ranking has only gone downhill since I graduated…

 

[RDU Irish]

Impossible to make the argument that your kid should spend $80k a year for an undergraduate school.

FIFY

 

[PolishDomer]

Impossible to make the argument that your kid should spend $80k a year for an undergraduate school.

FIFY

Told my boys they should go to a school where they get the best aid package for combo soccer/education...

 

[RDU Irish]

Impossible to make the argument that your kid should spend $80k a year for an undergraduate school.


Told my boys they should go to a school where they get the best aid package for combo soccer/education...

Don't fall in love with a school and don't make a decision until the aid packages are on the table. Schools 150% want it to be an emotional decision. I think undergraduate focused schools are underrated. Your first two years at Wisconsin will be in 500 person lecture halls taught by GAs.

 

[BilboBaggins]

"In last year’s rankings, for example, donations from alumni were weighted at 3% in a university’s overall score – now that number is zero. Class size went from 8% to zero. Another change involves research: if professors are cited in major publications, that can boost a school’s score, too.

Brooke Hanson, a college admissions consultant and founder of the test prep website SuperTutorTV, acknowledged that schools at the top of the list didn’t move around much. But, she said, there was a subtle movement toward the middle of the pack.

'The real winners are state schools with large research departments, large class sizes, and low alumni giving,' she said."

US News changed its college rankings. Should you use them in your school search?

U.S. News & World Report released its annual college rankings list. Experts said families should consider other factors when picking a school.

www.usatoday.com

In other words, the Big Ten is about to dominate the public school rankings and move up considerably in overall rankings. I can't say I really disagree with the changes mentioned there, alumni donations should count for how good your school is? Odd.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Don't fall in love with a school and don't make a decision until the aid packages are on the table. Schools 150% want it to be an emotional decision. I think undergraduate focused schools are underrated. Your first two years at Wisconsin will be in 500 person lecture halls taught by GAs.

Agreed. I received a 93% scholarship so I went to Ohio State. Definitely had my fair share of 500-student lectures with Indian GAs that I could barely understand. But thats what I deserved for not testing out of calculus and being in the engineering college lol

I graduated with $2,500 in student debt. 10/10 would make that decision again.

 

[IrishLax]

"In last year’s rankings, for example, donations from alumni were weighted at 3% in a university’s overall score – now that number is zero. Class size went from 8% to zero. Another change involves research: if professors are cited in major publications, that can boost a school’s score, too.

Brooke Hanson, a college admissions consultant and founder of the test prep website SuperTutorTV, acknowledged that schools at the top of the list didn’t move around much. But, she said, there was a subtle movement toward the middle of the pack.

'The real winners are state schools with large research departments, large class sizes, and low alumni giving,' she said."

US News changed its college rankings. Should you use them in your school search?

U.S. News & World Report released its annual college rankings list. Experts said families should consider other factors when picking a school.

www.usatoday.com

In other words, the Big Ten is about to dominate the public school rankings and move up considerably in overall rankings. I can't say I really disagree with the changes mentioned there, alumni donations should count for how good your school is? Odd.

Alumni donations measure how satisfied your alumni were with their experience. Agree it's an odd criteria.

Class size has a major correlation with educational quality but the race-to-the-bottom style of moving classes online for big state schools makes it hard to evaluate apples to apples.

Emphasizing "research prestige" for undergraduate rankings is super stupid. The worst professors I ever had were the ones renowned for their research.

 

[IrishTusker]

There is a study suggesting that people who get into a higher-ranked school but choose to go to a lower-ranked school end up making the same amount of money as people who went to the higher-ranked school. Of course, in general, most people who go to a lower-ranked school could not get in to a higher-ranked school. But it's not that the school makes someone smarter, it's just that the smarter students generally go to the higher-ranked schools.

 

[BilboBaggins]

There is a study suggesting that people who get into a higher-ranked school but choose to go to a lower-ranked school end up making the same amount of money as people who went to the higher-ranked school. Of course, in general, most people who go to a lower-ranked school could not get in to a higher-ranked school. But it's not that the school makes someone smarter, it's just that the smarter students generally go to the higher-ranked schools.

The problem I've always had with that metric is that the public Big Ten schools are educating a lot of kids that couldn't get into ND, Duke, etc... but a lot who could. There are more kids with an ACT of X at Ohio State than at Notre Dame. That works for 36s, 33s, etc.

In other words, it is weird to punish a large public university for having degree programs like education or communications. The biomedical engineering at Illinois is probably fantastic, but the education majors on campus are going to pull the averages down. It just is what it is.

I've always put more weight into the individual program rankings than the overall university rankings, is what I'm saying.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Alumni donations measure how satisfied your alumni were with their experience. Agree it's an odd criteria.

Class size has a major correlation with educational quality but the race-to-the-bottom style of moving classes online for big state schools makes it hard to evaluate apples to apples.

Emphasizing "research prestige" for undergraduate rankings is super stupid. The worst professors I ever had were the ones renowned for their research.

Those are all fair takes.

One of my favorite stories describing my experience at Ohio State in direct comparison with an elite school is this:

I took a microfinance class that was done in coordination with Stanford. We would watch their lecture live via Skype, and have Q&A with our professor after the lecture. Kind of a neat hybrid thing back in 2011 or so.

So we watch the first lecture about microfinance, i.e. the art of lending a guy in Africa $100 to buy a rickshaw or a water purifier and making a profit, and the Stanford professor gets *very* serious and stern and tells his class that silicon valley companies have graciously allowed the class to view their strategies and business models, and it would be incredibly rude and probably result in litigation if someone from the class started a company using this proprietary information. And then the professor ended the skype and the OSU professor reminded us all to read the chapter.

And that was the difference. At Stanford the fear was that these genius kids would start a literal company, and at OSU please read the chapter lol

 

[GowerND11]

Dr. Ken Dye is retiring. Can we bring back the OG Irish Guard with the new director?

 

[Irish du Nord]

Dr. Ken Dye is retiring. Can we bring back the OG Irish Guard with the new director?

I think those guys are pretty old by now

 

[FireJeffQuinn]

Prof. Christian Smith, the famed author of Moralistic Therapeutic Deism, has "bailed" on Notre Dame due to its lack of emphasis on its Catholic mission.

Why I’m Done with Notre Dame - First Things

 

[IrishSpartan]

Prof. Christian Smith, the famed author of Moralistic Therapeutic Deism, has "bailed" on Notre Dame due to its lack of emphasis on its Catholic mission.

Why I’m Done with Notre Dame - First Things

"Who gave whom permission to turn Notre Dame into a self-aggrandizing entertainment and shopping carnival? How does this project reflect Catholic purposes or values? Why does nobody see what is going on, and the message it sends to students who are already drowning in digital noise and commercial gluttony? St. Augustine wrote that the world is ruled by libido dominandi. To the very same, it seems to me, Notre Dame is far too captive." I get the whole catholic university needing to be a catholic institution thought process but its still a business and its goal is to appeal to modern thought processes.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I was wondering when this would be posted here.

 

[NDPhilly]

Its embarrassing how ND handled this entire Ostermann hire saga. Not every professor has to be Catholic, but why are they hiring Profs that are such vocal opponents of the Church's doctrine. Also question why she even wants to work at the country's premier Catholic institution considering her beliefs.

Bishop Rhoades calls on Notre Dame to reverse new director's appointment over abortion advocacy

Bishop Kevin Rhoades of Fort Wayne-South Bend, Indiana, issued a Feb. 11 statement expressing "dismay" and "strong opposition" to the university's appointment of associate professor Susan Ostermann as director of the Liu Institute for Asia and Asian Studies, effective July 1.

www.ncronline.org

 

[Lord Jim]

Its embarrassing how ND handled this entire Ostermann hire saga. Not every professor has to be Catholic, but why are they hiring Profs that are such vocal proponents of the Church's doctrine. Also question why she even wants to work at the country's premier Catholic institution considering her beliefs.

Bishop Rhoades calls on Notre Dame to reverse new director's appointment over abortion advocacy

Bishop Kevin Rhoades of Fort Wayne-South Bend, Indiana, issued a Feb. 11 statement expressing "dismay" and "strong opposition" to the university's appointment of associate professor Susan Ostermann as director of the Liu Institute for Asia and Asian Studies, effective July 1.

www.ncronline.org

She wants to work at Catholic institution in order to destroy it from within.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

"Who gave whom permission to turn Notre Dame into a self-aggrandizing entertainment and shopping carnival? How does this project reflect Catholic purposes or values? Why does nobody see what is going on, and the message it sends to students who are already drowning in digital noise and commercial gluttony? St. Augustine wrote that the world is ruled by libido dominandi. To the very same, it seems to me, Notre Dame is far too captive." I get the whole catholic university needing to be a catholic institution thought process but its still a business and its goal is to appeal to modern thought processes.

It doesn't seem like you understand much about Notre Dame given the bolded sentence. I doubt very much they are considering how to "appeal to modern thought processes" as it relates to this. It needn't be said but the lens of faith is constantly expanding, no matter the religion or doctrine. It's self-destructive to the Catholic church to change their doctrine on life, no matter how many people are pro-choice. Humana Vitae is bedrock to much of modern Catholic faith.

I have no idea why she was associated with Notre Dame in the first place; It seems like an odd step for the university. It sure seems like a self-invited Trojan horse. This coming from a poorly-practicing, agnostic Catholic. I'm not here to drive Orthodoxy down anyone's throat but anyone with a strong Catholic identity is likely irked by this appointment.

 

[ND87]

Paging Whiskey ...

 

[ozzman]

 

[SWirishfan]

I dont want to complain, but I don't understand this at all.
Can someone explain it to me like I am a 5 year old?

Instead of this partitioning of family incomes, why not just reduce tuition at the top line?
Is there some sort of tax benefit that these internally conducted tuition reductions fits into? I mean to an org that is ostensibly non-profit?

 

[Blazers46]

There goes the neighborhood.

 

[RDU Irish]

Roughly $70k/year tuition and $20k/year room & board.

$60,001 to $150,000 per year income family pays $20,000/year (33% to 13% of their annual top line income)
$150,001 to $200,000 per year of income - pay $55,000/year ($20k plus half of $70k) or 37% to 28% of income
Over $200k - 90k cost = 45% of family income

"Beginning in the 2026-27 academic year, Notre Dame will ensure that families with annual income below $150,000 will receive need-based financial aid that covers the cost of tuition. Families with income below $200,000 will receive need-based aid that covers half the cost of tuition. In addition, most students from families with annual income below $60,000 will receive need-based financial aid that covers tuition, fees, housing and food."

Refuse to address the absurdity of $90k cost of attendance while slapping yourself on the back about "affordability" where demanding a third of a family's paycheck is altruistic. And that is pretax.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Roughly $70k/year tuition and $20k/year room & board.

$60,001 to $150,000 per year income family pays $20,000/year (33% to 13% of their annual top line income)
$150,001 to $200,000 per year of income - pay $55,000/year ($20k plus half of $70k) or 37% to 28% of income
Over $200k - 90k cost = 45% of family income

"Beginning in the 2026-27 academic year, Notre Dame will ensure that families with annual income below $150,000 will receive need-based financial aid that covers the cost of tuition. Families with income below $200,000 will receive need-based aid that covers half the cost of tuition. In addition, most students from families with annual income below $60,000 will receive need-based financial aid that covers tuition, fees, housing and food."

Refuse to address the absurdity of $90k cost of attendance while slapping yourself on the back about "affordability" where demanding a third of a family's paycheck is altruistic. And that is pretax.

LOL. I am 1000% positive that these represent guaranteed minimums. A family that makes $60,000 per year is not paying $20,000 a year.

It certainly could apply to those in the top of each of these ranges.

We had two kids go to ND graduating in 2020 and 2023. The financial aid was amazing then and it sounds like it is improving. Our family income at the time may have been in the $115k range and our kids had tuition fully covered and only had to pay around half of the portion of the room and board figure.

But yes the ND Administration is evil.