ND's Talking Heads ... The good, bad & ugly

dublinirish

dublinirish

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Huntr said:
Garrett taking the Titans job would solve half the problem.
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NDPhilly

NDPhilly

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I’ve never seen a group of sports journos hate their fans like they do. Were their customers. We (well not me because I never would pay for them) literally pay their mortgages.
 
Punky

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These guys make their livings by being perceived as knowledgeable insiders. Now that they have been cut off from info by the program, they have nothing to sell, thus their livelihoods are at risk. So they lash out in anger......like a 2 year old.
 
GoldenAura

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Did we kill the Talking Heads thread?

Edit: ope, we got moved over there.
 
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IrishInOntario

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This will be an unpopular take here, because I know Sampson is widely despised by the fanatics, but I think his overall take is pretty reasonable... He just, notoriously, delivers it in the most boring, milk toast way, that is completely unappealing to the emotionally charged segment of the fan base.

That opinion goes something like this...

"Notre Dame had only itself to blame for missing the playoffs, because they opened the season with back-to-back losses. A 12-0 or 11-1 Notre Dame is in every year time, but that second loss leaves Notre Dame vulnerable, without both confetence and ESPN backing, to fight for them in the committee room and through back channel pressure. This year it was made worse by the fact that the two teams Notre Dame was in competition with for the last spot were a team (Miami) carrying to flag of an ESPN conference, with the same record and a head-to-head win and an SEC darling (Alabama) living off the memory of Nick Saban and bolstered by ESPN investment in the SEC.

If Notre Dame doesn't want to join a conference and "play ball" with the rest of the sport, that's fine, but they then SHOULD expect to be the team that gets the short end of the stick when they don't control the controllables (ensuring they go 11-1 or better) because nobody is going to have their back. ND fans and analysts can make record, resume and competition based arguments all they want, but it's futile because that's not what got them left out. It was their independence and the collusion against them by those that don't share their values."

Sampson simply thinks that a lot of Notre Dame fans are naive to the realities of the business surrounding the sport and that their arguments about why ND shouldn't have been left out are futile and useless relative to the reasons why they were... In short, win 11 games, or more, and don't give the committee and ESPN a reasonable chance to screw you, because if you leave that window open, they'll climb right through.
 
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IrishTusker

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Anyone who has watched football this year knows ND deserved to be in ahead of Bama and OU. That was true when Bama jumped us, that was true the day we were snubbed, it's true today. The only people who won't admit this are people who have a fan or financial incentive not to do so (e.g., SEC people, ESPN employees).

Other teams' beat writers don't mock their fanbases as much. It's odd. But tweeting that everything is great does not drive engagement, while negative, trollish comments do. Not that I expect the beat to say everything is great when it isn't, although they manage to do that too (go see Pete S.'s prediction the week before the playoff selection that we were in for sure if BYU lost). The same thing is true for national writers: it's amazing they're still talking about ND. But that drives engagement more than alternative topics.
 
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IrishTusker

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IrishInOntario said:
This will be an unpopular take here, because I know Sampson is widely despised by the fanatics, but I think his overall take is pretty reasonable... He just, notoriously, delivers it in the most boring, milk toast way, that is completely unappealing to the emotionally charged segment of the fan base.

That opinion goes something like this...

"Notre Dame had only itself to blame for missing the playoffs, because they opened the season with back-to-back losses. A 12-0 or 11-1 Notre Dame is in every year time, but that second loss leaves Notre Dame vulnerable, without both confetence and ESPN backing, to fight for them in the committee room and through back channel pressure. This year it was made worse by the fact that the two teams Notre Dame was in competition with for the last spot were a team with the same record and a head-to-head win (Miami) and an SEC darling (Alabama) living off the memory of Nick Saban and bolstered by ESPN investment in the SEC.

If Notre Dame doesn't want to join a conference and "play ball" with the rest of the sport, that's fine, but they then SHOULD expect to be the team that gets the short end of the stick when they don't control the controllables (ensuring they go 11-1 or better) because nobody is going to have their back. ND fans and analysts can make record, resume and competition based arguments all they want, but it's futile becaue that's not what got them left out. It's was their independence and the collusion against them by those that don't share their values."

Sampson simply thinks that a lot of Notre Dame fans are naive to the realities of the business surrounding the sport and what their arguments about why ND shouldn't have been left out are futile and useless relative to the reasons why they were... In short, win 11 games, or more, and don't give the committee and ESPN a reasonable chance to screw you, because if you leave that window open, they'll climb right through.
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This is just another way of saying the teams are put in the playoff for financial reasons, rather than reasons of quality. And I think that's pretty obviously true, especially this year. The question is whether that is good, or not. I don't think ND should accept being screwed because it isn't in a conference. Neither Miami, nor Ole Miss, nor Oregon won their conference. OSU didn't win their conference last year. Any program is allowed to be independent; it's not like Congress forbade independence but included an exception for ND. And so ND certainly shouldn't be penalized for being independent. If the committee can't rank ND fairly because it is independent (as happened this year) then get rid of the committee.
 
N

NumbersGuy0520

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IrishInOntario said:
This will be an unpopular take here, because I know Sampson is widely despised by the fanatics, but I think his overall take is pretty reasonable... He just, notoriously, delivers it in the most boring, milk toast way, that is completely unappealing to the emotionally charged segment of the fan base.

That opinion goes something like this...

"Notre Dame had only itself to blame for missing the playoffs, because they opened the season with back-to-back losses. A 12-0 or 11-1 Notre Dame is in every year time, but that second loss leaves Notre Dame vulnerable, without both confetence and ESPN backing, to fight for them in the committee room and through back channel pressure. This year it was made worse by the fact that the two teams Notre Dame was in competition with for the last spot were a team (Miami) carrying to flag of an ESPN conference, with the same record and a head-to-head win and an SEC darling (Alabama) living off the memory of Nick Saban and bolstered by ESPN investment in the SEC.

If Notre Dame doesn't want to join a conference and "play ball" with the rest of the sport, that's fine, but they then SHOULD expect to be the team that gets the short end of the stick when they don't control the controllables (ensuring they go 11-1 or better) because nobody is going to have their back. ND fans and analysts can make record, resume and competition based arguments all they want, but it's futile because that's not what got them left out. It was their independence and the collusion against them by those that don't share their values."

Sampson simply thinks that a lot of Notre Dame fans are naive to the realities of the business surrounding the sport and that their arguments about why ND shouldn't have been left out are futile and useless relative to the reasons why they were... In short, win 11 games, or more, and don't give the committee and ESPN a reasonable chance to screw you, because if you leave that window open, they'll climb right through.
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Milquetoast. Though apparently milk toast is an actual dish. Someone inform the Dante Moore thread.

You learn something new every day.
 
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IrishInOntario

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IrishTusker said:
Anyone who has watched football this year knows ND deserved to be in ahead of Bama and OU. That was true when Bama jumped us, that was true the day we were snubbed, it's true today. The only people who won't admit this are people who have a fan or financial incentive not to do so (e.g., SEC people, ESPN employees).

Other teams' beat writers don't mock their fanbases as much. It's odd. But tweeting that everything is great does not drive engagement, while negative, trollish comments do. Not that I expect the beat to say everything is great when it isn't, although they manage to do that too (go see Pete S.'s prediction the week before the playoff selection that we were in for sure if BYU lost). The same thing is true for national writers: it's amazing they're still talking about ND. But that drives engagement more than alternative topics.
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Nobody that is a decision maker cares, at all, who the better team was, or who deserved it more. The ACC was getting a team in due to their partnership with ESPN and as soon as Virgnia lost, Miami's same record and head-to-head win ensured they'd get in and the SEC's power, combined with the media darling that is Alabama, ensured they would get in.

There is nothing "just" or "fair" in big busines. It's simply about power and relationships. ND get the short end of that stick this year and the media know it, so the sane ones aren't going to sit around a gripe about inclusion metrics, when they know that ND wasn't left out on the basis of critical analysis between teams.
 
irishfan

irishfan

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Used to like Sampson a lot but his smugness/snarkiness at the fan base of the one team he covers has gone so over the top it’s crossed a line where it seems like looks down on us all.

Guy can’t do his job and get a morsel of portal intel but he’s great at kicking us in the balls on twitter
 
I

IrishInOntario

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NumbersGuy0520 said:
Milquetoast. Though apparently milk toast is an actual dish. Someone inform the Dante Moore thread.

You learn something new every day.
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Thanks for the correction. I've referenced the bland dish for years (because the reference made sense in my mind) and you're the first person to ever correct me.

But now I know... Greatly appreciated!
 
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