Chris "Belt To" Ash - Defensive Coordinator

[Luckylucci]

Nothing has changed? Personnel?

The DL lost Mills, Cross, and Oben. Washington’s recruits/transfers should be stepping in to fill that void. Through 2, valid questions marks there. In fact, Washington hasn’t developed an elite pass rusher during his entire tenure, but that’s a different conversation. I continue to believe in the development of most of these players but they are not much of a factor so far. That is 100% affecting the outcome of these play calls.

Stroman, Hobbs, and Zackery were not on the field last year. The decision to recruit and play those guys was not 100% made by Ash. Position group also lost Watts, a truly elite S. Same situation as last year?

I don’t think the LB’s are a detractor but losing Jack Kiser has no impact? Do we presently have a better LB than Kiser?

I don’t track this defense being the same as last year narrative. We lost some really good and veteran players.

 

[GATTACA!]

Nothing has changed? Personnel?

The DL lost Mills, Cross, and Oben. Washington’s recruits/transfers should be stepping in to fill that void. Through 2, valid questions marks there. In fact, Washington hasn’t developed an elite pass rusher during his entire tenure, but that’s a different conversation. I continue to believe in the development of most of these players but they are not much of a factor so far. That is 100% affecting the outcome of these play calls.

Stroman, Hobbs, and Zackery were not on the field last year. The decision to recruit and play those guys was not 100% made by Ash. Position group also lost Watts, a truly elite S. Same situation as last year?

I don’t think the LB’s are a detractor but losing Jack Kiser has no impact? Do we presently have a better LB than Kiser?

I don’t track this defense being the same as last year narrative. We lost some really good and veteran players.

Bowen and KVA are both better in a vacuum. Kiser is a better "QB of the defense" though and that probably is more impactful. Especially since Ash seems to have destroyed our defensive communication and cohesion.

 

[NDWarrior]

yeah definitely a lot of missed holds all day didn't help

I could see a number of holds right in front of me on the TV screen.

 

[NDWarrior]

you cant be serious

Why not? He would never be a HC candidate for ND but I think he could do well as the DC.
Hey, I'm open to anything that would work right now... But as I stated early today, I don't think MF would ever make an early season change and firing like that. It's not his style and he looks for a coach in that position, like Parker was, to exit gracefully and where all save face, so not happening anyway.

 

[GATTACA!]

Why not? He would never be a HC candidate for ND but I think he could do well as the DC.
Hey, I'm open to anything that would work right now... But as I stated early today, I don't think MF would ever make an early season change and firing like that. It's not his style and he looks for a coach in that position, like Parker was, to exit gracefully and where all save face, so not happening anyway.

Ed O would light a fire under the defenses ass that's for sure. Also bring some fucking swag and charisma. Imagine going from milquetoast beta Chris Ash to chad Ed Orgeron?

 

[stlnd01]

Nothing has changed? Personnel?

The DL lost Mills, Cross, and Oben. Washington’s recruits/transfers should be stepping in to fill that void. Through 2, valid questions marks there. In fact, Washington hasn’t developed an elite pass rusher during his entire tenure, but that’s a different conversation. I continue to believe in the development of most of these players but they are not much of a factor so far. That is 100% affecting the outcome of these play calls.

Stroman, Hobbs, and Zackery were not on the field last year. The decision to recruit and play those guys was not 100% made by Ash. Position group also lost Watts, a truly elite S. Same situation as last year?

I don’t think the LB’s are a detractor but losing Jack Kiser has no impact? Do we presently have a better LB than Kiser?

I don’t track this defense being the same as last year narrative. We lost some really good and veteran players.

I think a lot of people (myself included) talked ourselves into thinking that losing Cross/Mills, Kiser and Watts wouldn't be that big a deal. But those four guys had played a LOT of football and were basically the middle of our defense. The idea that we'd just reload and be as good (perhaps better!) was probably always wishful thinking.

Of course, it's college football, good players graduate and you have to replace them. I'd agree we haven't done a good enough job developing DLs, especially interior. We also have a lack of depth in the DB room that are forcing us to play guys like Hobbs (my kingdom for Jaden Mickey!). To some extent that's on the position coaches.

But then I also think our scheme has been ass. We're confused before the snap and tentative afterward, which has formerly good players like Shuler looking lost, and leaving less-skilled players like Hobbs constantly exposed. That is on the DC for sure. The fact that we seem able to adjust and play better in the second half tells me there are answers to this, but perhaps we are taking too long to find them.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Nothing has changed? Personnel?

The DL lost Mills, Cross, and Oben. Washington’s recruits/transfers should be stepping in to fill that void. Through 2, valid questions marks there. In fact, Washington hasn’t developed an elite pass rusher during his entire tenure, but that’s a different conversation. I continue to believe in the development of most of these players but they are not much of a factor so far. That is 100% affecting the outcome of these play calls.

Stroman, Hobbs, and Zackery were not on the field last year. The decision to recruit and play those guys was not 100% made by Ash. Position group also lost Watts, a truly elite S. Same situation as last year?

I don’t think the LB’s are a detractor but losing Jack Kiser has no impact? Do we presently have a better LB than Kiser?

I don’t track this defense being the same as last year narrative. We lost some really good and veteran players.

This is where I'm at people are acting like we didn't lose a lot on defense? Xavier Watts is a huge missing key and Jordan Clark. People act like Clark wasn't a big loss the dude barely gave up big plays.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Last drive ash called another coverage where Hobbs is on craver with no help and the entire field to cover on a crossing route, he stopped doing that second half until the most critical time. Of course Hobbs gives up 35 yd reception.
It’s like ash panicked and reverted back to his original awful plan.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Here is a comparison:
2024 Under Golden First 2 Games
A&M: 1 SACK, 3 TFL
NIU: 0 SACKS, 3 TFL

2025 UNDER ASH:
Miami: 1 SACK, 2 TFL
A&M: 0 SACKS, 2 TFL

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Nothing has changed? Personnel?

The DL lost Mills, Cross, and Oben. Washington’s recruits/transfers should be stepping in to fill that void. Through 2, valid questions marks there. In fact, Washington hasn’t developed an elite pass rusher during his entire tenure, but that’s a different conversation. I continue to believe in the development of most of these players but they are not much of a factor so far. That is 100% affecting the outcome of these play calls.

Stroman, Hobbs, and Zackery were not on the field last year. The decision to recruit and play those guys was not 100% made by Ash. Position group also lost Watts, a truly elite S. Same situation as last year?

I don’t think the LB’s are a detractor but losing Jack Kiser has no impact? Do we presently have a better LB than Kiser?

I don’t track this defense being the same as last year narrative. We lost some really good and veteran players.

Every team does, that's college football. We have the same core group of players. On paper, this defense should be at least close to last year's.

 

[IrishTusker]

Nothing has changed? Personnel?

The DL lost Mills, Cross, and Oben. Washington’s recruits/transfers should be stepping in to fill that void. Through 2, valid questions marks there. In fact, Washington hasn’t developed an elite pass rusher during his entire tenure, but that’s a different conversation. I continue to believe in the development of most of these players but they are not much of a factor so far. That is 100% affecting the outcome of these play calls.

Stroman, Hobbs, and Zackery were not on the field last year. The decision to recruit and play those guys was not 100% made by Ash. Position group also lost Watts, a truly elite S. Same situation as last year?

I don’t think the LB’s are a detractor but losing Jack Kiser has no impact? Do we presently have a better LB than Kiser?

I don’t track this defense being the same as last year narrative. We lost some really good and veteran players.

Didn't we hold Georgia to 10 points with a lot of those guys injured? This isn't just a slight regression; the defense has fallen off a cliff.

 

[stlnd01]

Every team does, that's college football. We have the same core group of players. On paper, this defense should be at least close to last year's.

Yes every team has turnover, but we lost a two-time All-American and three other guys who'd been playing college football for like eight years.
Even if you think the guys replacing them are comparable in talent (I'd agree on Kiser and Cross, at least), there's going to be some learning curve, then you add in a new DC/system and playing two of the best offensive lines in college football in the first two games, and yeah I could see how things might go sideways.

 

[Irish#1]

Those guys are missed for sure, but this isn't about the talent lost. This is about a new defensive scheme that Ash said he would not do, except to allow the DE's to get more pressure. As has been mentioned by myself and others, pre-snap guys look unsure on where the are supposed to line up. They scramble to get in position, but if they are being told where to move to, are they sure on their responsibilities and whom they should be covering?

 

[NDFAN2008]

Didn't we hold Georgia to 10 points with a lot of those guys injured? This isn't just a slight regression; the defense has fallen off a cliff.

That Georgia team played their backup QB and they didn't have any good WR's, both Carver and Conception would be top 5 in WR's we saw last year. The 3 best passing teams we faced last year lit us up. UL, USC, and Ohio State.

 

[IrishTusker]

That Georgia team played their backup QB and they didn't have any good WR's, both Carver and Conception would be top 5 in WR's we saw last year. The 3 best passing teams we faced last year lit us up. UL, USC, and Ohio State.

This is overstating things. We just gave up 41 points. UL scored 24, USC scored 28 before the garbage time TD when we were up 21, and OSU scored 34, which was less than they did against anyone else in the playoff. And 3 of those were because the offense didn't convert a 4th down and they got an easy FG.

A&M scored about the same number of points against us as against UTSA and Utah State. I guess our personnel is similar to those teams? If the defense were properly coached we beat A&M and maybe Miami.

 

[jpachuta33]

Ranked 108th in total defense… 🚮

 

[Huntr]

Holy hell

 

[FWIrish4]

Yeah so this is all stuff I can agree with and get behind, and maybe me and some others are not reading your other posts correctly.

Where we disagree is on the robbing Peter to pay Paul. My opinion is that things are so dysfunctional that the answer isn't giving up something else to help Hobbs it's that they have systemic and foundational issues that are causing the entire product to suck. And that it's not a personnel/talent issue. It's a production issue because the guys suck at what they are being asked to do. There is no doubt in my mind that Al Golden would've gotten much better production from the hole unit by:
1. Creating more havoc in a variety of different ways
2. Getting Tae Johnson ready to go opposite Shumate and making him a more productive coverage safety
3. Being more aggressive with our linebackers
4. Doing more to make sure Hobbs, Gray, etc. aren't being asked to play to their weaknesses

The most glaring illustration of point #4, IMO, is actually having Bowen 1v1 with the tight end on 4th and 11 to lose the game.

Not an expert, but Greg and Jamie have been harping on the fact the defense is giving the offense exactly what they’re showing presnap. There isn’t much disguise or making the offense think twice. I imagine that would help cover some weaknesses as well.

 

[IrishTusker]

You guys are phenomenal at trying to out-opinion each other

Thank you.

Not an expert, but Greg and Jamie have been harping on the fact the defense is giving the offense exactly what they’re showing presnap. There isn’t much disguise or making the offense think twice. I imagine that would help cover some weaknesses as well.

And apparently the offensive coaches didn't know that Carr was tipping plays either. Sampson made it sound like an A&M coach told him about it after the game. Yikes.

 

[NDFAN2008]

This is overstating things. We just gave up 41 points. UL scored 24, USC scored 28 before the garbage time TD when we were up 21, and OSU scored 34, which was less than they did against anyone else in the playoff. And 3 of those were because the offense didn't convert a 4th down and they got an easy FG.

A&M scored about the same number of points against us as against UTSA and Utah State. I guess our personnel is similar to those teams? If the defense were properly coached we beat A&M and maybe Miami.

If that's how you want to word it then you can say that the defense only gave up 27, take away the INT by Carr which set them up in great field postion that should have been 3 runs get another first down and kick a field goal at the end. And then take away the last touchdown which we got screwed by the refs.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Thank you.


And apparently the offensive coaches didn't know that Carr was tipping plays either. Sampson made it sound like an A&M coach told him about it after the game. Yikes.

How bad is this staff doing as a whole. Even the announcers stated it looked like A&M knew when ND were going to run it. It was obvious every time love got a run that A&M was completely crashing down expecting him to run.

Talk about not helping out your oline.

10 players on the field twice in a row vs OSU, tipping your plays first 2 games to start this season vs top opponents. Freeman better get his and this staffs act together.

 

[gregm83]

What do we think 5% change he is back next year?

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

We lost some really good and veteran players.

This is where I've been at for a while now, and I think Golden had to have this in the back of his mind when weighing his options.

We're in worst case scenario-ville right now, and as disappointing as it is, I'm not sitting here stunned beyond belief at what we've seen so far. Last year's team did what they did because they were special, and so many of them are no longer there.

 

[IrishLax]

Those guys are missed for sure, but this isn't about the talent lost. This is about a new defensive scheme that Ash said he would not do, except to allow the DE's to get more pressure. As has been mentioned by myself and others, pre-snap guys look unsure on where the are supposed to line up. They scramble to get in position, but if they are being told where to move to, are they sure on their responsibilities and whom they should be covering?

Exactly, there is no "personnel" reason that explains this level of drop off. Some drop off? Sure. But they are just totally out of sorts. Can't get lined up, play slow, bust coverages, create very few negative plays.

If you want an illustration of how you can "fit" inexperienced or undertalented guys into a productive defense, look at the 2012 defense that carried ND to a National Championship. They started a true freshman converted RB at corner and a true freshman safety (Elijah Shumate) at nickel. Sorry, as bad as Hobbs is playing right now, it's not like there is some incalculable gap in coverage ability relative to a true freshman box safety. There is always a way -- if you are a good coach -- to put guys in position to succeed. We aren't doing that, and what's worse is that we have knee capped many very talented players in the process.

Chris Ash came in and basically said in his intro press conference he wasn't going to change anything (which is also what he told Freeman when he interviewed) and then in spring ball he proceeded to throw away 3 years of continuity for what he felt more comfortable with. Which is fine... if you teach it well and you can execute it well. Your "scheme" doesn't matter, what matters is how it fits your players and how it is executed. It's being executed very poorly because of coaching. And the players absolutely blame Ash, and have whispered concerns since at least the summer. I don't really see how the situation is salvageable without Marcus Freeman doing some heavy lifting to get everyone on the same page.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Ranked 108th in total defense… 🚮

I'll get attacked for saying this - but
ND has played two playoff caliber teams to start the season.
The defensive rankings will get better
(THIS does not mean the defense will actually be better though. just better looking against lesser talent)

 

[IrishLax]

Not an expert, but Greg and Jamie have been harping on the fact the defense is giving the offense exactly what they’re showing presnap. There isn’t much disguise or making the offense think twice. I imagine that would help cover some weaknesses as well.

I don't know enough about football to comment on this, but they are having trouble even getting aligned properly pre-snap. So I don't know how much you can disguise things when they can't even do the basics right now. And then I thought this tweet was interesting:


This is basically how I feel. There are a lot of plays where I am like "I don't even know who made the mistake here because what they all collectively did doesn't make any sense." Al Golden's defense was like a well-conducted orchestra, this is some middle schoolers in a garage learning how to play Smoke on the Water.

 

[Free Manera]

Can’t wait for Purdue to put up 56 it’s gonna be great.

 

[SoIll]

Like why not just give it to Mickens? If you wanted everything to remain the same and keep the continuity with the players, why would you give it to this asshole?

Its Monday and I'm still fucking livid. Literally all of the hype, all of the new found expectations. Gone.

Freaking shitshow. Chris Ash is certainly to blame, but if rumblings are true about spring issues and players blaming Ash, How does MF just sit there and let it happen?

 

[NDFAN2008]

Can some insiders chime in? Is Freeman gonna let this ride all season and let him go via Parker situation and upgrade or is he going to maybe give it another game and if Purdue lights us up make a change?

 

[Irish4life]

Exactly, there is no "personnel" reason that explains this level of drop off. Some drop off? Sure. But they are just totally out of sorts. Can't get lined up, play slow, bust coverages, create very few negative plays.

If you want an illustration of how you can "fit" inexperienced or undertalented guys into a productive defense, look at the 2012 defense that carried ND to a National Championship. They started a true freshman converted RB at corner and a true freshman safety (Elijah Shumate) at nickel. Sorry, as bad as Hobbs is playing right now, it's not like there is some incalculable gap in coverage ability relative to a true freshman box safety. There is always a way -- if you are a good coach -- to put guys in position to succeed. We aren't doing that, and what's worse is that we have knee capped many very talented players in the process.

Chris Ash came in and basically said in his intro press conference he wasn't going to change anything (which is also what he told Freeman when he interviewed) and then in spring ball he proceeded to throw away 3 years of continuity for what he felt more comfortable with. Which is fine... if you teach it well and you can execute it well. Your "scheme" doesn't matter, what matters is how it fits your players and how it is executed. It's being executed very poorly because of coaching. And the players absolutely blame Ash, and have whispered concerns since at least the summer. I don't really see how the situation is salvageable without Marcus Freeman doing some heavy lifting to get everyone on the same page.

I mean, this is his job right? Especially with his background as a former DC.