A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[notredomer23]

I knew 10 years ago he would never finish when all he talked about was his appearances, his games, his stupid ass figurines and the HBO adaption. HE mde plenty of money and totally lost interest in his own story. Screw that guy.

My belief is that while D&D were super lazy with the final season and needed at minimum more episodes if not another season to wrap up the story sufficiently, the main plot points of 1) Arya killing the NK 2) Dany goes mad, burns KL, Jon kills her, and 3) Bran becomes king, were his outline and creation. When he saw the overwhelmingly negative response, he probably tried backtracking this in and realized there were too many toxic butterflies (his words not mine) between what he had already written for Winds of Winter and the previous books to get a different outcome. So here we are.

 

[GATTACA!]

He's got way too many open commitments in the narrative to make it happen in two more books.

If you consider Dany alone:
- Has to bring the Dothraki horde under her command - Gonna take two chapters with how he writes
- Has to transport the Dorthraki horde to break the siege at Mereen(?) - Gonna take two chapters, one for convincing them, one for hazards on the road
- Has to figure out how to get her people across the sea - At least two chapters of political back-and-forth, treachery, etc.
- Has to get across the sea - Another two chapters of travel and struggle, maybe a dragon disappears over open water and we read a whole chapter about Dany worrying
- Landing at Westeros and realizing everyone is too busy to notice - There's a chapter
- Has to gather support when across the sea - More politics, which GRRM is best at... I'd read a whole book of this shit, but he's gonna have to do it in two or three chapters just to be reasonable
- Moving through Westeros, realizing her true battle is in the North, going to King's Landing after that, etc.... SO MANY CHAPTERS

Extrapolate that to all of the other storylines in different places, and it's a fool's errand to try to end it all in two books.

I guess he could choose now to utilize time jumps or big plot twists to move things forward quickly. But the reality is that he's gonna have to split the last two books into at least three.

See most of this could have been accomplished with a time jump. Have her already on her boats headed for Westeros when Winds starts. Through a conversation with Jorrah or Missandei you can have her give a recap of what happened at Vaes Dothrak. But in order to have that work George would have had to have included the battle for Meereen in Dance. Because now you still need a way to reunite her with Jorah, have her meet Tyrion, give a definitive answer on Quentyn, and sort out what is going to happen with Victarion and the Iron Fleet.

Same can be said of the battle of Ice. Should have been included with Dance.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

My belief is that while D&D were super lazy with the final season and needed at minimum more episodes if not another season to wrap up the story sufficiently, the main plot points of 1) Arya killing the NK 2) Dany goes mad, burns KL, Jon kills her, and 3) Bran becomes king, were his outline and creation. When he saw the overwhelmingly negative response, he probably tried backtracking this in and realized there were too many toxic butterflies (his words not mine) between what he had already written for Winds of Winter and the previous books to get a different outcome. So here we are.

Agree completely.

The ending we saw on the show… this ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY WAS IN FACT GMMRs ending. Fanboys will deny it, frothingly, but there is zero doubt in my mind that he told them exactly how it ends. They haphazardly and ineloquently crammed it all into too short a time.

 

[GATTACA!]

My belief is that while D&D were super lazy with the final season and needed at minimum more episodes if not another season to wrap up the story sufficiently, the main plot points of 1) Arya killing the NK 2) Dany goes mad, burns KL, Jon kills her, and 3) Bran becomes king, were his outline and creation. When he saw the overwhelmingly negative response, he probably tried backtracking this in and realized there were too many toxic butterflies (his words not mine) between what he had already written for Winds of Winter and the previous books to get a different outcome. So here we are.

They were 100% lazy and should have handed off the series to new showrunners that wanted to continue and weren't in a rush to get it over with.

I don't really think the reaction to your list is holding George back though. Other than #1 (which was incredibly stupid and I struggle to see a path laid out to how George would even arrive at that plot point. The NK doesn't really even exist in the books.) I think the rest all would work much better and be satisfying in the books. The reason people hated those choices was because they were rushed.

#2 works but it requires Faegon and Jon Con to exsist. Danny arriving late and realizing the greater population already loves Aegon and believes him to be their legitimate King is a much better justification for her going mad. The groundwork for burning the city and the bells ringing has already been laid too with Tyrion and Connington.

#3 This one works but it cant (and won't) be Bran Stark the boy from Winterfell rolling in a wheelchair all the way down to King's Landing. Bran's body is never leaving Bloodraven's cave. Bran will become King through warging into someone else and pulling the strings from the weirdwood network. It will be framed as an eldritch horror not a hopeful happy ending for the realm like the show portrayed.

George has talked many times about how much he likes the Scourging of the Shire. I think this is his version. Bran being king might not even happen until the bulk of the story is wrapped up. Only then is it revealed what a dark ending it actually is.

 

[ndfanatic78]

They were 100% lazy and should have handed off the series to new showrunners that wanted to continue and weren't in a rush to get it over with.

I don't really think the reaction to your list is holding George back though. Other than #1 (which was incredibly stupid and I struggle to see a path laid out to how George would even arrive at that plot point. The NK doesn't really even exist in the books.) I think the rest all would work much better and be satisfying in the books. The reason people hated those choices was because they were rushed.

#2 works but it requires Faegon and Jon Con to exsist. Danny arriving late and realizing the greater population already loves Aegon and believes him to be their legitimate King is a much better justification for her going mad. The groundwork for burning the city and the bells ringing has already been laid too with Tyrion and Connington.

#3 This one works but it cant (and won't) be Bran Stark the boy from Winterfell rolling in a wheelchair all the way down to King's Landing. Bran's body is never leaving Bloodraven's cave. Bran will become King through warging into someone else and pulling the strings from the weirdwood network. It will be framed as an eldritch horror not a hopeful happy ending for the realm like the show portrayed.

George has talked many times about how much he likes the Scourging of the Shire. I think this is his version. Bran being king might not even happen until the bulk of the story is wrapped up. Only then is it revealed what a dark ending it actually is.

They couldn't get the actors back for any reasonable amount of money. They all wanted to move on to other projects. It wasn't lazyness. It would have cost hundreds of millions for 1 more season. HBO wasn't going to do that. Yes the last 2 seasons were rushed, especially the last one but it had to be that way. There was no way they were brining that cast and crew back together for another season, not even for a couple more episodes.

 

[GATTACA!]

They couldn't get the actors back for any reasonable amount of money. They all wanted to move on to other projects. It wasn't lazyness. It would have cost hundreds of millions for 1 more season. HBO wasn't going to do that. Yes the last 2 seasons were rushed, especially the last one but it had to be that way. There was no way they were brining that cast and crew back together for another season, not even for a couple more episodes.

This isn't true. HBO was begging them to make more seasons. George and HBO both wanted the show to go 10 seasons.

 

[ndfanatic78]

This isn't true. HBO was begging them to make more seasons. George and HBO both wanted the show to go 10 seasons.

Not at 100 million a year and it wasn't just that as I stated. The actors wanted to move on to other projects and weren't coming back.

 

[GATTACA!]

Not at 100 million a year and it wasn't just that as I stated. The actors wanted to move on to other projects and weren't coming back.

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss’s Rush to Finish ‘Game of Thrones’

The showrunners said they didn’t need full, 10-episode installments for seasons 7 and 8, but the breakneck pace ‘Thrones’ has taken is a clear departure from years past—and comes with disheartening side effects

www.theringer.com

The perplexing part of Thrones’ hurry to remove itself from our screens is that almost no one was rooting for a rapid resolution. Viewers don’t want it to end. The media doesn’t want it to end. HBO doesn’t want it to end. Only the showrunners are ready to wrap things up. In an interview published before the final premiere, D&D made it clear that they were the ones insisting on stopping at eight seasons and limiting the last two to a total of 13 episodes. “[HBO] said, ‘We’ll give you the resources to make this what it needs to be,’” Weiss said. Benioff added, “HBO would have been happy for the show to keep going, to have more episodes in the final season.” But the showrunners refused. “We always believed it was about 73 hours, and it will be roughly that,” Benioff continued. “As much as they wanted more, they understood that this is where the story ends.”

 

[calvegas04]

They couldn't get the actors back for any reasonable amount of money. They all wanted to move on to other projects. It wasn't lazyness. It would have cost hundreds of millions for 1 more season. HBO wasn't going to do that. Yes the last 2 seasons were rushed, especially the last one but it had to be that way. There was no way they were brining that cast and crew back together for another season, not even for a couple more episodes.

Pretty sure all the actors are dying to get back into GoT, I think it was the show runners who wanted to jump into their next project

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I've wanted to rewatch GOT badly for a year or two now and just can't find the motivation knowing how irritated I was with the last season.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

It doesn’t hold up. I tried rewatching last year while I was home sick and couldn’t get through the first episode. The pacing is way too slow when you already know what’s happening next.

 

[calvegas04]

It doesn’t hold up. I tried rewatching last year while I was home sick and couldn’t get through the first episode. The pacing is way too slow when you already know what’s happening next.

I thought it was just as good on the second watch

 

[Giddyup]

Nerds.

 

[T-Boone]

Nerd alert

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

No excuses these days. With ChatGPT and AI these books could be done in months.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

My belief is that while D&D were super lazy with the final season and needed at minimum more episodes if not another season to wrap up the story sufficiently, the main plot points of 1) Arya killing the NK 2) Dany goes mad, burns KL, Jon kills her, and 3) Bran becomes king, were his outline and creation. When he saw the overwhelmingly negative response, he probably tried backtracking this in and realized there were too many toxic butterflies (his words not mine) between what he had already written for Winds of Winter and the previous books to get a different outcome. So here we are.

I think this is it truly. The show got ahead of him and basically told the story he wanted to tell but the show fucked it up by subverting expectations and rushing the ending and treating character story lines terribly and GRRM’s grand story line is now doodoo thanks the show.

OTOH he gave me Elden Ring which is my favorite game ever. I’ve got like 1000 hours in it 😂

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Just about finished with my recent rewatch.

Still so many things wrong with the final season. Multiple character arches and storylines got tossed out with the bathwater.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Just about finished with my recent rewatch.

Still so many things wrong with the final season. Multiple character arches and storylines got tossed out with the bathwater.

I was waiting for the final season to watch the show and then due to overwhelming negative reviews I never got around to it. Do you think it's still worth watching with how terrible the last season is?

 

[NDVirginia19]

I was waiting for the final season to watch the show and then due to overwhelming negative reviews I never got around to it. Do you think it's still worth watching with how terrible the last season is?

The first two or three seasons are still some of the best TV there ever has been. I think it's worth watching even though it gets really dogshit at the end

 

[ColoradoIrish]

The first two or three seasons are still some of the best TV there ever has been. I think it's worth watching even though it gets really dogshit at the end

That's good to know, I've been super apprehensive to start it due to the let down at the end

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I was waiting for the final season to watch the show and then due to overwhelming negative reviews I never got around to it. Do you think it's still worth watching with how terrible the last season is?

Yes. Finish it out. I would not call it "terrible", but disappointing.

 

[NDVirginia19]

That's good to know, I've been super apprehensive to start it due to the let down at the end

It's the same recommendation I make to people about House of Cards. Yeah it gets turbodogshit at the end, but you really miss out not watching the first two seasons. Except I tell people to watch until the end of season 3 of house of cards and just skip the rest. I agree with Jiggafini though, it's worth watching to the end of GOT

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Thanks guys!

 

[IrishLion]

 

[GATTACA!]

Finally getting around to reading The Hedge Knight and man........George is just such a good fucking writer. I think part of me was procrastinating because I have a bad feeling this will be the last new ASoIaF story I get to read from him.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Finally getting around to reading The Hedge Knight and man........George is just such a good fucking writer. I think part of me was procrastinating because I have a bad feeling this will be the last new ASoIaF story I get to read from him.

I think I said it earlier in this thread, but a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is probably my favorite collective work by GRRM. They're so, so good.

Hope HBO does it right.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

KOTSK has been great so far. The last two episodes have been phenomenal.

 

[NorthDakota]

KOTSK has been great so far. The last two episodes have been phenomenal.

Very fun show.

 

[Fbolt]

Just drop the whole season so I can binge

 

[GATTACA!]

Just drop the whole season so I can binge

Next week is the last episode so you're almost there.