Presidential Election 2024

[GATTACA!]

So...at first all the previous Secretaries had to have a Masters or Doctorate in Education from what you said, and/or time spent actually teaching. Looking at this list of 12 individuals I'm seeing just 4 PhDs in education related fields, not really more than a handful with just a Masters in an education focused field and/or higher teaching...and a handful of BAs in unrelated fields like Business Administration, Poly Sci, Business Econ, Latin American studies, and Sociology. So, that moves the goal posts a bit.

But it's irrelevant, isn't it? If there are no official requirements for the position, then McMahon can't really be labeled as unqualified can she? As mentioned, she's at least as accomplished or more so than a few of the past Secretaries. Clutching pearls seems a bit silly.

She's nowhere near as qualified as any that wasn't nominated by Trump. But Daddy Trump wants her so it's your duty to defend her. Whatever man. Embarrassing honestly.

 

[Giddyup]

He wants his own executives. Shocking stuff.

 

[GATTACA!]

He wants his own executives. Shocking stuff.

That’s not the shocking part. Nice strawman.

 

[ulukinatme]

She's nowhere near as qualified as any that wasn't nominated by Trump. But Daddy Trump wants her so it's your duty to defend her. Whatever man. Embarrassing honestly.

Really? Debatable.
Richard Riley had a law degree, not exactly education related. Only other note was his governorship where he was called the "Education Governor" for his reforms in South Carolina. Where is SC ranked in education? 42nd out of 50. Stellar work.

Shirley Hufstedler's career was spent mostly as a judge after getting her law degree. Overseeing judicial cases doesn't necessarily make you more qualified than anyone else when it comes to education reform.

Margaret Spellings just had a BA in Poly Sci. Yes, she worked for the Texas Association of School Boards, but I'm showing as a lobbyist. She spent a lot of her post college career working on G.W's governor and presidential campaigns before she landed the Secretary position.

Arne Duncan had a BA in Sociology. He played basketball for several years after college, then became the CEO of Chicago Public Schools where he implemented Renaissance 2010. They basically shut down a bunch of public schools and opened new charter schools, abysmal or mixed results followed depending on who you ask. Not exactly great reform if that's your only claim to educational fame.

But yeah...you had me at "No official requirements." I'm not here to defend Trump, I'm just here to counter the manufactured outrage, it is embarrassing. When do you think McMahon will throw out Reading and Mathematics, then start implementing Grappling 101 along with education reform in the Art of the Promo?

 

[GATTACA!]

Really? Debatable.
Richard Riley had a law degree, not exactly education related. Only other note was his governorship where he was called the "Education Governor" for his reforms in South Carolina. Where is SC ranked in education? 42nd out of 50. Stellar work.

Shirley Hufstedler's career was spent mostly as a judge after getting her law degree. Overseeing judicial cases doesn't necessarily make you more qualified than anyone else when it comes to education reform.

Margaret Spellings just had a BA in Poly Sci. Yes, she worked for the Texas Association of School Boards, but I'm showing as a lobbyist. She spent a lot of her post college career working on G.W's governor and presidential campaigns before she landed the Secretary position.

Arne Duncan had a BA in Sociology. He played basketball for several years after college, then became the CEO of Chicago Public Schools where he implemented Renaissance 2010. They basically shut down a bunch of public schools and opened new charter schools, abysmal or mixed results followed depending on who you ask. Not exactly great reform if that's your only claim to educational fame.

But yeah...you had me at "No official requirements." I'm not here to defend Trump, I'm just here to counter the manufactured outrage, it is embarrassing. When do you think McMahon will throw out Reading and Mathematics, then start implementing Grappling 101 along with education reform in the Art of the Promo?

No it’s not debatable.

The wife of Trump’s buddy who has no experience in education, no experience in law, no experience in government, and has no higher education is not qualified. Yes you’re here to defend Trump. It’s obvious when you’re defending even this DeVos 2.0 level embarrassment of a nomination.

 

[Irish#1]

She's nowhere near as qualified as any that wasn't nominated by Trump. But Daddy Trump wants her so it's your duty to defend her. Whatever man. Embarrassing honestly.

IMO, you don't have to have a background in education to be effective. CEO's get hired all the time without having experience in a specific industry/business. The sharp ones pick up quickly and can identify the issues. Surround yourself with the proper people to assist.

 

[Giddyup]

Yikes and they wonder why people are paranoid about election integrity. Next month hopefully we figure out who “won” California

 

[NDVirginia19]

Allowing random individuals to come in and "Cure Ballots" should raise a lot of fucking eyebrows.

 

[RDU Irish]

I know a guy who graduated from public school despite his family being a disaster who went on to serve in the Marines, use government money to pay for college, wrote a bestseller, got elected to the US Senate and eventually elected as Vice President. I guess we just have different experiences. System working pretty good!

When my dad was a principal it took a lot of work to graduate some kids but they earned it. Probably most proud of some of those kids that would have been high school drop outs end up walking the stage at 20 years old and first in their family to graduate. Held back, re-took classes, plenty of suspensions along the way but they earned it. That is not to say there were no drop outs, but it took work to bring along the ones you could. Not today - everyone passes.

Achievers are going to achieve - the American Dream is alive and well which is supported by your anecdote. The problem is the performance gap between the top quartile and bottom quartile. Raising the floor is not the same as having no ceiling.

 

[RDU Irish]

I disagree. I think RDU's examples are more the minority. I would argue you don't get American exceptionalism without a flawed but successful public education system. SAT scores be durned. Fix what need fixing, like flags in classrooms and keep the party going. <insert bald eagle sounds>

I largely agree with you - wouldn't believe it myself if I wasn't living it.

 

[RDU Irish]

And how qualified do you have to be to shut it down? Bring in Hacksaw Jim Duggan.

 

[ulukinatme]

No it’s not debatable.

The wife of Trump’s buddy who has no experience in education, no experience in law, no experience in government, and has no higher education is not qualified. Yes you’re here to defend Trump. It’s obvious when you’re defending even this DeVos 2.0 level embarrassment of a nomination.

Sorry, you've already admitted there are no official requirements for the position. Your other points are invalid. Have a nice day.

 

[Armyirish47]

I largely agree with you - wouldn't believe it myself if I wasn't living it.

I understand we all have different views from where we sit. Yours and mine, and your parents/mine as administrators have different lived in experiences, forests and trees and what not. I'm glad that graduation rates are up because I've seen it help some kids who may have been denied an opportunity to graduate years ago be able to meet that minimum hurdle for some fantastic jobs they otherwise would have missed out on.

Anywho, cheers brother!

 

[GATTACA!]

Sorry, you've already admitted there are no official requirements for the position. Your other points are invalid. Have a nice day.

No one has ever said there are official requirements. There aren't official requirements because no one ever considered the possibility that a president would just start nominating random friends and wives of people he knows. No one considered that a president wouldn't give a shit about trying to find people that are actually qualified to do the jobs he's offering them and intentionally sandbagging his own administration.

 

[Bluto]

No supporting evidence??? That's like saying you don't believe your last Thanksgiving dinner happened because you can't find a study proving it. Exactly what supporting evidence do you need when you've witnessed something yourself??? You know we've all taken history classes and seen the world with our own eyes, right? We all see the world and watch the news don't you? Can you seriously not observe, analyze, think, and reach conclusions with your own brain? Do you have to have a study and someone else to tell you what to think and say? Stop parroting MSNBC or TYT and letting people like Cenk or Maddow do your thinking for you and tell you what to say. Look at history and THINK for yourself, FFS. You don't need a flippin' study to know it's cold outside in January during a snowstorm, do you? "No supporting evidence???" JFC, You've got 170 years of it!

The Dems supported slavery, fought to keep it, created the Ku Klux Klan, implemented and enforced Jim Crow and segregation, fought against the Civil Rights Act, and absolutely positively have treated Blacks like helpless children whose support could be bought.

Instead of defending your party's sordid history of racism, why don't you just say, "Yeah, it's been bad. I hope they do better in the future."

I’m sorry but you’re kind of a moron.

I clearly stated I’m not a “Democrat”. I don’t have an agenda other than setting the historical record straight.

I didn’t get any of my info from MSNBC or whatever as you stated. In fact, I got much of it from a retired army Captain who taught history at the left wing bastion known as Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (Ronald Regan’s favorite California college from what I understand).

I clearly demonstrated that Republicans shifted to supporting southern traitors and by extension the Klan and Jim Crow almost immediately following the Lincoln assassination, supported Plessy vs Ferguson, began to openly court southern racists (including the Dixiecrats) beginning in 48, were involved in the second and third iterations of the Klan, ran a pro segregationist presidential candidate and that racist southerners aka democrats began to migrate to the GOP beginning in the 40’s when the lines began to blur and eventually shifted almost completely in the 60’s and 70’s.

I understand Democrats have a shitty, violent, racist past. So does the GOP. So does this entire country all of which I have had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. That’s kind of the point. There are no guys in white hats in this story.

The irony of you presenting yourself as some sort of spokes person for black America is just the icing on the dumb dumb cake.

I can delve deeper into what allowed for the rise of the white middle class and why those conditions have eluded African Americans writ large for so many years if you would like. Spoiler alert, it has little to do with paternalistic Democratic policies.

One other element missing from this broader discussion is how racist the GOP was in the south west and west as well.

 

[Bluto]

No one has ever said there are official requirements. There aren't official requirements because no one ever considered the possibility that a president would just start nominating random friends and wives of people he knows. No one considered that a president wouldn't give a shit about trying to find people that are actually qualified to do the jobs he's offering them and intentionally sandbagging his own administration.

Thomas Frank wrote a book called The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule in 2008. Just sayin.

 

[TorontoGold]

I’m sorry but you’re kind of a moron.

I clearly stated I’m not a “Democrat”. I don’t have an agenda other than setting the historical record straight.

I didn’t get any of my info from MSNBC or whatever as you stated. In fact, I got much of it from a retired army Captain who taught history at the left wing bastion known as Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (Ronald Regan’s favorite California college from what I understand).

I clearly demonstrated that Republicans shifted to supporting southern traitors and by extension the Klan and Jim Crow almost immediately following the Lincoln assassination, supported Plessy vs Ferguson, began to court southern racists (including the Dixiecrats) beginning in 48, were involved in the second and third iterations of the Klan, ran a pro segregationist presidential candidate and that racist southerners aka democrats began to migrate to the GOP beginning in the 40’s when the lines began to blur and eventually shifted almost completely in the 60’s and 70’s.

I understand Democrats have a shitty, violent, racist past. So does the GOP. So does this entire country all of which I have had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. That’s kind of the point. There are no guys in white hats in this story.

The irony of you presenting yourself as some sort of spokes person for black America is just the icing on the dumb dumb cake. Lol.

I can delve deeper into what allowed for the rise of the white middle class and why those conditions have eluded African Americans writ large for so many years if you would like. Spoiler alert, it has nothing to do with paternalistic Democratic policies.

The hilarity of you responding with reason and clearly stating the Dems were/are really racist only to be responded with “but yeahhhhh those early 1900s racists were dems soooooo”. lol the anti intellectual movement of MAGA is so clear.

 

[Bluto]

The hilarity of you responding with reason and clearly stating the Dems were/are really racist only to be responded with “but yeahhhhh those early 1900s racists were dems soooooo”. lol the anti intellectual movement of MAGA is so clear.

It is kinda weird.

The biggest takeaway for me from studying US history is that the country has been very violent and classist in conjunction with being very racist/bigoted for the majority of its history with some of those conditions persisting to this day.

I don’t think this is taught in high school history, let alone college introductory courses in any meaningful way and there seems to be a push from the right to paper over all of this.

One of the weirder things about all this for me is all the incessant chest pounding from supposed followers of one who espoused humility and introspection as key tenets.

 

[Sea Turtle]

It is kinda weird.

The biggest takeaway for me from studying US history is that the country has been very violent and classist in conjunction with being very racist/bigoted for the majority of its history with some of those conditions persisting to this day.

I don’t think this is taught in high school history, let alone college introductory courses in any meaningful way and there seems to be a push from the right to paper over all of this.

Have you studied the history of the world? It's even worse.

You and guys like Michael Moore can shit on our country's past all you want but there is nothing special or unique about the sins of the United States

Do you think Arabs kidnapping millions of sub-saharan Africans, castrating them so they can't contaminate their bloodlines, and forcing them into a life of Slavery to this day is taught in our schools yet? Do you think Nigerian Christians being slaughtered on a daily basis as I type this is being taught?

And let's not even get into where the word 'slave' comes from.

 

[Bluto]

Have you studied the history of the world? It's even worse.

You and guys like Michael Moore can shit on our country's past all you want but there is nothing special or unique about the sins of the United States

Do you think Arabs kidnapping millions of sub-saharan Africans, castrating them so they can't contaminate their bloodlines, and forcing them into a life of Slavery to this day is taught in our schools yet? Do you think Nigerian Christians being slaughtered on a daily basis as I type this is being taught?

And let's not even get into where the word 'slave' comes from.

I have studied world history. Thanks for asking.

Some civilizations were better, some were worse.

It’s not about “shitting” on anything.

It’s about examining historical facts, what we can learn from them and hopefully using this information to help create a better society.

I can tell you with certainty that being “colored” in Kern County, CA was a pretty fucking terrible experience as recently as the 1980’s.

I’m failing to understand why people are overly sensitive to basic facts.

I do agree to a point that there is nothing “special or unique” about the US in regards to the violence and racism.

That would seem to run counter to the idea of American Exceptionalism that’s constantly being espoused by the right. I agree with that assessment.

 

[TorontoGold]

It is kinda weird.

The biggest takeaway for me from studying US history is that the country has been very violent and classist in conjunction with being very racist/bigoted for the majority of its history with some of those conditions persisting to this day.

I don’t think this is taught in high school history, let alone college introductory courses in any meaningful way and there seems to be a push from the right to paper over all of this.

One of the weirder things about all this for me is all the incessant chest pounding from supposed followers of one who espoused humility and introspection as key tenets.

Yep. It’s ironic to see those that call themselves “patriotic” criticize the present but get upset at criticism of the past.

“This shit that happened in the past was bad, let’s not do this again”
“This place is falling apart and our culture isn’t like it used to be”

Which one reads as patriotic lol

 

[Bluto]

Yep. It’s ironic to see those that call themselves “patriotic” criticize the present but get upset at criticism of the past.

“This shit that happened in the past was bad, let’s not do this again”
“This place is falling apart and our culture isn’t like it used to be”

Which one reads as patriotic lol

Yeah. That is a very strange dynamic.

Don’t even get me started about the period which in theory they are advocating a return too (post WW2) which had something like a 85% tax rate on the highest income earners, the economy was fueled by massive government spending on infrastructure and housing and government agencies lead the charge on innovation all of which created the middle class (except for black people because well you know).

 

[Sea Turtle]

I have studied world history. Thanks for asking.

Some civilizations were better, some were worse.

It’s not about “shitting” on anything.

It’s about examining historical facts, what we can learn from them and hopefully using this information to help create a better society.

I can tell you with certainty that being “colored” in Kern County, CA was a pretty fucking terrible experience as recently as the 1980’s.

I’m failing to understand why people are overly sensitive to basic facts.

I do agree to a point that there is nothing “special or unique” about the US in regards to the violence and racism.

That would seem to run counter to the idea of American Exceptionalism that’s constantly being espoused by the right. I agree with that assessment.

They were pretty much all bad, my friend. But you're right, some were even worse.

Sometimes I can shoot from the hip a bit. I'll be the first to admit it. I just think that their really isn't much to examine at this point. It has been ad nauseum.

Everybody knows what happened to the tribes of the America's. Everybody knows about the horrors of human bandage and the Civil War that it took to end that. Everybody knows about Jim Crow and the KKK. All terrible. I'm sorry that being black as recently as the 1980's was terrible.

It's not fair. It's awful. Unfortunately, change seems to be slow. I hope that life for that 'clorored' guy has gotten much much better since then.

I'm a little coarse. I know it. I grew up in rough circumstances. I just want us to all come together and love each other and continue to build a great country for everybody.

 

[ulukinatme]

No one has ever said there are official requirements. There aren't official requirements because no one ever considered the possibility that a president would just start nominating random friends and wives of people he knows. No one considered that a president wouldn't give a shit about trying to find people that are actually qualified to do the jobs he's offering them and intentionally sandbagging his own administration.

Funny, my kids got a fine education while DeVos was in charge. It's almost like you're overreacting just a little bit.

 

[GATTACA!]

Funny, my kids got a fine education while DeVos was in charge. It's almost like you're overreacting just a little bit.

How many of the problems you guys are complaining about got solved during her term?

 

[Bishop2b5]

I’m sorry but you’re kind of a moron.

I clearly stated I’m not a “Democrat”. I don’t have an agenda other than setting the historical record straight.

I didn’t get any of my info from MSNBC or whatever as you stated. In fact, I got much of it from a retired army Captain who taught history at the left wing bastion known as Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (Ronald Regan’s favorite California college from what I understand).

I clearly demonstrated that Republicans shifted to supporting southern traitors and by extension the Klan and Jim Crow almost immediately following the Lincoln assassination, supported Plessy vs Ferguson, began to openly court southern racists (including the Dixiecrats) beginning in 48, were involved in the second and third iterations of the Klan, ran a pro segregationist presidential candidate and that racist southerners aka democrats began to migrate to the GOP beginning in the 40’s when the lines began to blur and eventually shifted almost completely in the 60’s and 70’s.

I understand Democrats have a shitty, violent, racist past. So does the GOP. So does this entire country all of which I have had the pleasure of experiencing first hand. That’s kind of the point. There are no guys in white hats in this story.

The irony of you presenting yourself as some sort of spokes person for black America is just the icing on the dumb dumb cake.

I can delve deeper into what allowed for the rise of the white middle class and why those conditions have eluded African Americans writ large for so many years if you would like. Spoiler alert, it has little to do with paternalistic Democratic policies.

One other element missing from this broader discussion is how racist the GOP was in the south west and west as well.

I don't care if you call yourself a Democrat or not. You may think of yourself as a Socialist, a Communist, a Progressive, a Wokester, an ambassador for the Workers' Party of California, or an enlightened leftist demiboy pineapple for all I care. You're way to the left on the political spectrum and defend Dem policies, politicians, and behavior. The exact name you go by for your spot on the leftist spectrum is rather irrelevant.

The bolded is exactly what you're NOT trying to do. You're trying to put a self-serving, inaccurate, "take no responsibility/it's someone else's fault" spin on your side's foul history. Stop defending the Democrats' racist past and excusing it. Who cares whether it was Southerners, Westerners, Northerners, or Easterners doing it. They were DEMOCRATS. No amount of your silly spin changes that.

The Democratic party supported slavery and fought against ending it. It was Democrats who started the Klan and made up the VAST majority of its membership throughout its history. Jim Crow and segregation were overwhelmingly Democrat party policies. Plessy vs. Ferguson was supported by every one of the Dem justices and the lone dissenter was a Republican. And it was Democrats who fought tooth and nail against the Civil Rights Act of the '60s. Digging up a few "But a couple of Republicans did something too!" examples doesn't diminish the Democrats' looooong history of overt racism and its manipulative, shameful "soft bigotry of low expectations" treatment of minorities, especially Blacks. You use them. Your side looks down on them as inferior and helpless and easily manipulated.

Stop defending the foul history of the Democrats. Apologize for defending it and be ashamed of it instead of trying to spin it and blame others.

 

[drayer54]

How many of the problems you guys are complaining about got solved during her term?

Too much administrative back and forth. That's why this one needs to close down shop.

Yep. It’s ironic to see those that call themselves “patriotic” criticize the present but get upset at criticism of the past.

“This shit that happened in the past was bad, let’s not do this again”
“This place is falling apart and our culture isn’t like it used to be”

Which one reads as patriotic lol

Here's something for you to celebrate.

 

[GATTACA!]

Too much administrative back and forth. That's why this one needs to close down shop.

Here's something for you to celebrate.

What does this have to do with the 2024 Presidential Election?

This isn’t the drayer twitter feed thread.

 

[Bluto]

They were pretty much all bad, my friend. But you're right, some were even worse.

Sometimes I can shoot from the hip a bit. I'll be the first to admit it. I just think that their really isn't much to examine at this point. It has been ad nauseum.

Everybody knows what happened to the tribes of the America's. Everybody knows about the horrors of human bandage and the Civil War that it took to end that. Everybody knows about Jim Crow and the KKK. All terrible. I'm sorry that being black as recently as the 1980's was terrible.

It's not fair. It's awful. Unfortunately, change seems to be slow. I hope that life for that 'clorored' guy has gotten much much better since then.

I'm a little coarse. I know it. I grew up in rough circumstances. I just want us to all come together and love each other and continue to build a great country for everybody.

I agree with your sentiment.

I personally have a pretty good life at this point thanks in large part to opportunities provided by progressive policies like damn near free college.

This is gonna blow some peoples minds but when I first enrolled at Cal Poly SLO full time tuition was something like $300.

I finished my undergraduate degree with minimal debt which allowed me to take some lower paying jobs in trades and risks like starting my own construction company.

I was also able to lean into my education to get more professional certifications and licenses than I care to admit. All that ultimately lead me to where I’m at now.

Anyhow, Cheers!

 

[Bluto]

I don't care if you call yourself a Democrat or not. You may think of yourself as a Socialist, a Communist, a Progressive, a Wokester, an ambassador for the Workers' Party of California, or an enlightened leftist demiboy pineapple for all I care. You're way to the left on the political spectrum and defend Dem policies, politicians, and behavior. The exact name you go by for your spot on the leftist spectrum is rather irrelevant.

The bolded is exactly what you're NOT trying to do. You're trying to put a self-serving, inaccurate, "take no responsibility/it's someone else's fault" spin on your side's foul history. Stop defending the Democrats' racist past and excusing it. Who cares whether it was Southerners, Westerners, Northerners, or Easterners doing it. They were DEMOCRATS. No amount of your silly spin changes that.

The Democratic party supported slavery and fought against ending it. It was Democrats who started the Klan and made up the VAST majority of its membership throughout its history. Jim Crow and segregation were overwhelmingly Democrat party policies. Plessy vs. Ferguson was supported by every one of the Dem justices and the lone dissenter was a Republican. And it was Democrats who fought tooth and nail against the Civil Rights Act of the '60s. Digging up a few "But a couple of Republicans did something too!" examples doesn't diminish the Democrats' looooong history of overt racism and its manipulative, shameful "soft bigotry of low expectations" treatment of minorities, especially Blacks. You use them. Your side looks down on them as inferior and helpless and easily manipulated.

Stop defending the foul history of the Democrats. Apologize for defending it and be ashamed of it instead of trying to spin it and blame others.

You forgot to close with “Roll Tide!”.