'25 NV WR Derek Meadows (Alabama Verbal)

[Free Manera]

ND is in a boring town, with a small student population (i.e. not many girls), and you have to go to class to play football. Those are distinct disadvantages.

The 4 for 40 thing doesn't mean much when kids are getting a mil+ to show up to school. The only way ND gets back in the game is to pay players more than everyone else. That's the reality.

I know "ND is competitive in NIL" according to II and others, but I think that applies more to transfers and the average 4 star type ND kid. I don't think they are throwing around money like Michigan or OSU is now, let alone the southern schools, to get blue chip high schoolers.

 

[Rocketman84]

If you can recruit elite talent and also develop recruits with elite traits, you can finish 7-13 in the talent rankings and still compose an elite roster. Right now we’ve got guys who can develop talent in the following position groupings:

RB
OL
DL*
LB
DB

Obviously QB and WR are two negative outliers and we just don’t utilize the TE spot the same as we did under Thom Rees. Our special teams are burnt asshole. DL is weird bc we know Washington has not recruited exceptionally well, but DL is still a strength and probably would have been a phenomenal unit without the injuries.

Freeman is proving to be able to recruit at a level that is equivalent to slightly improved over Kelly with an ability (thus far) to develop recruited talent better than Kelly did. That’s a recipe for success—and as much as it pains me to say it—the recipe Michigan used pretty successfully (besides cheating) to develop a roster to compete for a national title.

Im not sure I would include the DL but other positions have been very good in development. WR, QB, TE and STs have been disappointments recently and DL has been underachieving.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Really alarming that these schools with no decent tradition and schools middling around .500 can land "blue chip" guys without a problem, while a traditional and storied program like ND is constantly landing project/filler level recruits.

Why is it really alarming? Serious question. ND is on the brink of a playoff berth. They've shown considerable depth throughout the roster. Freeman has showed considerable growth as a head coach. What's alarming about this situation?

As for your last point - L. O. L. "Project/filler level recruits." Stop acting like we're about to sign a class ranked in the 20s-30s (which Brian Kelly did in 2020, by the way). This class will most likely finish in the Top 12. Get a grip.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Really alarming that these schools with no decent tradition and schools middling around .500 can land "blue chip" guys without a problem, while a traditional and storied program like ND is constantly landing project/filler level recruits.

Also - which schools are you referring to? Michigan? The team that won the national championship last year?

But sure, "middling," "no decent tradition," etc. etc. Whatever supports your narrative.

 

[Rocketman84]

What the hell are we doing here? We're about to go the playoffs. That's what. Should we fire MF because you're unhappy the recruiting class this year might not finish Top 10?

MF has markedly upgraded the talent from Kelly. Full f*cking stop. You're lying to yourself if you argue otherwise.

247 Team Composite Ratings for Notre Dame
2019: 843.29
2020: 866.56
2021: 853.74
2022: 868.32
2023: 870.70
2024: 905.52

The "rankings crowd" on this board are misinformed boobs. MF has improved the talent, he's built depth at every position on the roster, and he has shown an ability to get impact players in the transfer portal. He's been a marked improvement over everything Kelly has done, and that doesn't change because you panty grabbers are upset Meadows might join Underwood at Michigan.

I think the "rankings crowd" is more concerned with the comparison against the likes of 'Bama, O$U, Georgia and even Texas as opposed to what Kelly did or is doing now.

 

[Katzenboyer]

I think the "rankings crowd" is more concerned with the comparison against the likes of 'Bama, O$U, Georgia and even Texas as opposed to what Kelly did or is doing now.

And that's where the problem lies. ND will never, ever, ever recruit at that level. It's a combination of things - mostly related to geography (Georgia, Texas, Bama and OSU are all recruiting hotbeds; northern Indiana is not) and academic requirements.

This would be true even if Nick Saban was our coach. If that's your expectation, you're better off rooting for a different team.

 

[Rocketman84]

ND is in a boring town, with a small student population (i.e. not many girls), and you have to go to class to play football. Those are distinct disadvantages.

The 4 for 40 thing doesn't mean much when kids are getting a mil+ to show up to school. The only way ND gets back in the game is to pay players more than everyone else. That's the reality.

I know "ND is competitive in NIL" according to II and others, but I think that applies more to transfers and the average 4 star type ND kid. I don't think they are throwing around money like Michigan or OSU is now, let alone the southern schools, to get blue chip high schoolers.

Agreed! Some of the harsh truths about today's game, the landscape has changed so much from the time I was being recruited 20 years ago! Seems like it was more like 30 years ago with the dynamic of recruiting and NIL.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

11-1 is a great record but we really had no reason not to be undefeated this season with the schedule we faced combined with our recent play. The recruiting helps because its the foundation of your depth and "in house" WR recruiting has been horrid and not up to par with a top 10 program. This will reer its ugly head in the future with a tougher schedule unless going 10-2 and getting embarrassed in the postseason is the goal.

There are three unbeaten teams left in the country, and two of them are going down tomorrow, my friend. Shit happens. It's college football. They're kids. They lost to NIU and will have to go 11-1. That's life. You've either moved on from that loss or you haven't. Certain folks here have their feelings on both sleeves regarding that one.

I think it is important to keep in mind that ND is paying Denbrock and Golden a hell of a lot of money to mitigate whatever shortcomings the roster may have. Yes, the dark dark cloud of doom and gloom may well rear it's ugly head down the line. But again, when it comes to the actual football actually being played, I like have Denbrock and Golden as the top lieutenants on this thing.

Let's see what the portal yields at WR, not to mention the 2026 class. I realize that there isn't the precise of instant gratification involved there but we can still see how things play out in the short and long term with it. Not like we have a choice.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Michigans going big game hunting while we are trying to flip 3 stars.

 

[irish4ever]

Unfortunately, NIL is here to stay. Yet, I'm not a believer that you need to 'break the bank' to get very good recruits as ND has done for the past few years in particular. To me, it's more about paying TOP $ for the best assistant coaches (Denbrock, Golden, Mickens, Biagi, etc.) for them to WANT to STAY and continue bringing in good athletes that FIT and WANT to be @ ND; ones they can develop and play at a top level.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Michigans going big game hunting while we are trying to flip 3 stars.

They're also not on the schedule for another ten years. Whoopdee fucking doo.

 

[Rocketman84]

And that's where the problem lies. ND will never, ever, ever recruit at that level. It's a combination of things - mostly related to geography (Georgia, Texas, Bama and OSU are all recruiting hotbeds; northern Indiana is not) and academic requirements.

This would be true even if Nick Saban was our coach. If that's your expectation, you're better off rooting for a different team.

Notre Dame has been in the same locale since 1842 and since recruiting rankings have been tracked going back over 45+ years you do realize ND was a mainstay in the Top 5 for about 30+ of those years and Top 10 for 35 years so never, ever is false because it's already been done before for decades. Sure those schools are in hotbeds but schools such as Ole Miss are not and they've done extremely well recently but then ppl will bring up NIL which we have plenty of as well. Alot of the factors ppl brought up in the past just aren't as big of an issue in todays game.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Michigans going big game hunting while we are trying to flip 3 stars.

They also went from national championship to dumpster fire. They are overpaying to keep things from getting worse.

 

[HouseofPain]

End of the day, it is about having good talent on the field. I’m not a fan of paying a hs kid millions and hoping he hasn’t hit his ceiling or doesn’t get pissy and leave. Pay the big bucks for the ringers and I’m not talking about Duke level athletes. Players that you know can help the program. Anyone paying a unproven and not spectacular producing player like Meadows the mega clams in hopes that he will develop into a lot better player that he is right now against hs competition has gotta be out of their mind. Or spending somebody else’s money.

 

[Rocketman84]

Also - which schools are you referring to? Michigan? The team that won the national championship last year?

But sure, "middling," "no decent tradition," etc. etc. Whatever supports your narrative.

No decent tradition? Schools such as Texas Tech, Missouri for starters. As for teams middling around .500 well Michigan, U$C, Oklahoma and Auburn.

 

[MacIrish75]

Not to nitpick, but why is QB a negative outlier? We've brought in Minchey and Carr in the last two classes, both four stars, and we're about to sign a third with Hebert. And even though the TE has been under-utilized, we still recruit the position very well.



Where is this "Washington has not recruited exceptionally well" coming from? We're about to sign a class with 4 four stars, including a Top 50 guy in Burgess. We signed three four stars in 2024, including a Top 50 guy in Bryce Young. We brought in three four stars in 2023. And with the injuries we've suffered on the DL, his development of the guys who've needed to step up has been pretty impressive.

Again, if your point of reference is "we're not recruiting on the DL like Georgia, Bama and OSU," you're always going to be disappointed. Those kids aren't coming to ND, regardless of the money we put in front of them.

I think you missed the entire point of my post lol. The first paragraph literally said that we can continue to be elite if we recruit at the level we have and excel in development.

Al Washington gets a bit of a pass due to injuries, but I would call he recruiting thus far acceptable, but not exceptional.

QB is on there because until a QB we’ve actually developed goes out and shows success, how can we tout our ability to develop QBs? Freeman has a year with Pyne, Hartman, and now Leonard. How can we assess the ability for the staff to develop a QB based on that.

I feel like you’re looking for an argument where one doesn’t really exist. 75% of the positional staff is killing it. One definitely isn’t. The jury is out on a couple more. That’s just facts.

 

[Blazers46]

I find that NDs current path is a pretty resilient path forward. We will have a lot of guys that want to be here and know what a ND education is worth. We more than likely will have very little turnover relative to other high profile programs but will still have to account for losses and transfers. In the end the majority of the team and culture remains and continues on. ND wont be moving year to year in different directions and become beholden to one or two 5 stars requiring constant attention.

I think that’s the problem. It’s a resilient path which has always been more so than others. But who will bear this cross after Freeman is my worry. How long will Freeman want to bear this cross. BK flirted with leaving more than a few times. ND needs a few heavy hitters in recruiting as opposed to a bunch of Nobody’s with bags of money.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Notre Dame has been in the same locale since 1842 and since recruiting rankings have been tracked going back over 45+ years you do realize ND was a mainstay in the Top 5 for about 30+ of those years and Top 10 for 35 years so never, ever is false because it's already been done before for decades.

Show your work. Tell me the last time ND was a "mainstay" in the Top 5 of the recruiting rankings. (Hint: you will not be able to.) You're basing your entire argument on a mistaken premise.

The last Top 5 class ND had was in 2013. Before that was the #2 class Weis signed in 2008. Those are outliers, not regular occurrences.

And if you're going back to the Holtz years, well - I've got news for you. The demographics of the country have changed since the 80s, as has the college game. ND has never, ever, ever signed regular Top 5 classes in the modern era of college football.

Sure those schools are in hotbeds but schools such as Ole Miss are not and they've done extremely well recently but then ppl will bring up NIL which we have plenty of as well. Alot of the factors ppl brought up in the past just aren't as big of an issue in todays game.

So you want to be Ole Miss now? Is that your argument?

Team rankings for Ole Miss's last five classes: 15, 20, 29, 37, 17. Boy, I really wish we could recruit at that level.

 

[Katzenboyer]

I think you missed the entire point of my post lol. The first paragraph literally said that we can continue to be elite if we recruit at the level we have and excel in development.

Al Washington gets a bit of a pass due to injuries, but I would call he recruiting thus far acceptable, but not exceptional.

QB is on there because until a QB we’ve actually developed goes out and shows success, how can we tout our ability to develop QBs? Freeman has a year with Pyne, Hartman, and now Leonard. How can we assess the ability for the staff to develop a QB based on that.

I feel like you’re looking for an argument where one doesn’t really exist. 75% of the positional staff is killing it. One definitely isn’t. The jury is out on a couple more. That’s just facts.

Didn't really take an issue with your point, just wanted to hear your argument on why Washington hasn't been doing exceptionally well on the recruiting trail. Could it be better? Maybe. But we've been signing talented classes on the DL and the development has looked pretty good.

Washington catches a lot of flak here and I've never really understood it.

 

[stlnd01]

The first recruiting class with the real, open, NIL pay-to-play stuff was '23. Next year the recruiting class of '23 be juniors, which is pretty much shit-or-get-off-the-pot time for college football players. By this time next year you'll know how good they are.
I realize there's no scientific way to measure this but I'll be very curious to see the success rate of recruits who were obvious bag-chasers, vs. ones who made their college choice for other, more traditional, reasons.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

Show your work. Tell me the last time ND was a "mainstay" in the Top 5 of the recruiting rankings. (Hint: you will not be able to.) You're basing your entire argument on a mistaken premise.

The last Top 5 class ND had was in 2013. Before that was the #2 class Weis signed in 2008. Those are outliers, not regular occurrences.

And if you're going back to the Holtz years, well - I've got news for you. The demographics of the country have changed since the 80s, as has the college game. ND has never, ever, ever signed regular Top 5 classes in the modern era of college football.



So you want to be Ole Miss now? Is that your argument?

Team rankings for Ole Miss's last five classes: 15, 20, 29, 37, 17. Boy, I really wish we could recruit at that level.

Scholarship limits and TV contracts are what caused Notre Dame's recruiting classes to drop from the 70's and 80's.
We used to be the only one's on national tv every week.

 

[Rocketman84]

Why is it really alarming? Serious question. ND is on the brink of a playoff berth. They've shown considerable depth throughout the roster. Freeman has showed considerable growth as a head coach. What's alarming about this situation?

As for your last point - L. O. L. "Project/filler level recruits." Stop acting like we're about to sign a class ranked in the 20s-30s (which Brian Kelly did in 2020, by the way). This class will most likely finish in the Top 12. Get a grip.

I'd say its alarming we can't land none of our top 8 targets at a position of need and have to rely on the portal as a bridge gap. Especially when lower tier schools have no issues bringing in these type of recruits. Kudos for being close to a playoff berth, showing depth at a few positions and MF growing after 3 years as a HC! All things I would expects btw, but going 11-1 instead of 12-0 against this years opponents is a letdown especially losing against one of the weaker teams on the schedule. Right now we have a top 3 (championship level) type of defense but an offense I would say is closer to the 12-15 (fringe playoff) range which is were it remain until we bring in the firepower consistently to compete and bring that side of the ball towards the top 7 range. As for the project/filler level recruits well that's not even up for debate because i've charted this going back a decade with recruits I felt would've never got offered in my era and I transitioned it to guys whom I believed would never get PT or transfer out within two years and i've landed on close to 90% of these recruits. Two of the guys I felt that way about in thus class were already processed out but we still have 5 others currently in the class. Maybe I just hold ND to the same standard as when I was going thru the process but I hate sounding like the "old guy" on the porch when im probably one of the younger guys on the board.

 

[Katzenboyer]

No decent tradition? Schools such as Texas Tech, Missouri for starters. As for teams middling around .500 well Michigan, U$C, Oklahoma and Auburn.

Texas Tech is 6-4 and has the 57th ranked recruiting class in the country right now (and signed the 25th ranked class last year). Mizzou is currently 7-3, and has the 26th ranked recruiting class (and signed the 22nd ranked class the year before). What, exactly, are you trying to argue when comparing those teams to ND's recruiting under the current staff?

As for the other teams you mentioned, those are four of the most storied programs in college football. Each has a national championship since ND won its last. Each is in a favorable recruiting zone, with exception of Michigan, who currently has the 11th ranked class behind ND's 9th, and whose previous three classes before that were ranked 13th, 18th, and 9th (the same year ND finished with the #6 class).

Again, what point are you trying to make? Are you just complaining to complain?

 

[Katzenboyer]

Scholarship limits and TV contracts are what caused Notre Dame's recruiting classes to drop from the 70's and 80's.
We used to be the only one's on national tv every week.

Exactly; the game has changed the last 50 years. The points being made by the mopes here are meritless on that fact alone.

 

[irishu]

We are in peak offseason form right now

 

[Katzenboyer]

I'd say its alarming we can't land none of our top 8 targets at a position of need and have to rely on the portal as a bridge gap. Especially when lower tier schools have no issues bringing in these type of recruits. Kudos for being close to a playoff berth, showing depth at a few positions and MF growing after 3 years as a HC! All things I would expects btw, but going 11-1 instead of 12-0 against this years opponents is a letdown especially losing against one of the weaker teams on the schedule. Right now we have a top 3 (championship level) type of defense but an offense I would say is closer to the 12-15 (fringe playoff) range which is were it remain until we bring in the firepower consistently to compete and bring that side of the ball towards the top 7 range. As for the project/filler level recruits well that's not even up for debate because i've charted this going back a decade with recruits I felt would've never got offered in my era and I transitioned it to guys whom I believed would never get PT or transfer out within two years and i've landed on close to 90% of these recruits. Two of the guys I felt that way about in thus class were already processed out but we still have 5 others currently in the class. Maybe I just hold ND to the same standard as when I was going thru the process but I hate sounding like the "old guy" on the porch when im probably one of the younger guys on the board.

Again, show your work. Which "lower tier schools" have no issues bringing in "these types of recruits"? Which of those schools would you trade places with right now?

Also, classic 20/20 vision on "going back a decade with recruits I felt would've never got offered in my era." Nothing like being able to say "I was right" ten years after the fact.

 

[notredomer23]

Derek Meadows has 21 catches for 496 yards and 6 touchdowns in 11 games. Competition has been awful outside of their first 4 matchups. In fact, Bishop Gorman has outscored their last 7 opponents 372-17.

Elijah Burress, against one of the most consistently difficult schedules in the country, has 31 catches for 858 yards and 12 touchdowns in 10 games. Impacting Burress from doing more this year is the fact there's another 4 star receiver.

 

[NDWarrior]

1) There is likely a frothy bubble forming in NIL (think what you like, but the market could very well reign this excess in, esp. with more $ mill. flops and maybe with an economy that becomes more challenging next year, same way venture capital funding ebbs and flows with the market) and 2) We will have our ultimate proving point on this year with our (hopefully there are no hiccups) CFP games so that will be the overall final judgement on how good 2024 is

 

[Irish4life]

So again he was looking for a reason not to come here. Our WR coaching has been a disaster.

Can't disagree, though I do like Burress a lot. We'll see if ND can have better success with WRs in the portal.

 

[SoIll]

Loy

ND is running 3rd maybe 4th and completely out of it as he sees it.